Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!island.idirect.com!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!usenet From: nospamfrasers@surenet.net (A. Stephen Fraser) Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:47:51 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 87 Message-ID: References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: nospam.frasers@surenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ip19.surenet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 In article <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com>, phildyson@aol.com says... > >60# Pacific Yew Self Bow, Maple shaft with Canada Goose feather, 550 > >gr., 175 fps ... boom. Instinct one, Technology zero. > > > >-Stephen Fraser > >-Bowyer, Fletcher > > Technology Zero? > I guess you don't use plastic nocks, fletch-tite or hot-melt glue, and dacron > strings? > What kind of BH do you use, one you cut out and sharpened yourself or are you a > flint napper too? That's right. Technology ZERO. No plastic nocks, I make my own arrows and make self nocks. I fletch them with Canada Goose feather using hide glue, then bind them on with silk in true medieval fashion. As for strings, I always make my own Flemish or endless loop strings out of Irish linen or (when I can get hold of it) hemp. Actually, my broadheads are provided by a friend who makes them from .050 gauge steel and sharpens them himself. I trade him 2 arrows for a broadhead. Btw ... someone had mentioned that if I was speaking truthfully about "technology zero" than I wouldn't be using a chronometer to gauge the speed of my arrow flight. Again, I say technology _zero_. I don't use a chrono. I don't even know what the thing looks like! I estimate my arrow speed. And judging by the times I've estimated arrow speed on a previously clocked bow, I'm pretty darned accurate (+/- 10 fps). (Btw, for the perfectionists out there who think my 175 fps from a 60# stick bow is slow, please bear in mind that use maple shafts ... they're slow but MAN do they penetrate!) Y'know, I'm only 30 years old (started bowmaking at 25) and I cannot believe that so many archers have never heard of "old fashioned" methods, or don't believe that one can make successful hunting equipment by using a little elbow grease and some "guts and glory". This will probably be taken as an insult by everyone who uses a compound bow, but I'll throw my two cents in here anyway. Remember in 1992 and 1993 when the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series? Well, I'm from Toronto and I know darn well that we virtually bought the World Series by paying top dollar for any great player who would come. Shooting with a compound is like buying a deer. If you've paid more for your equipment than you did for your hunting licence, you should rethink your strategy. Anybody can spend a thousand dollars on equipment and harvest a buck. But it takes a real man to stalk them on the ground, watching their scrape patterns, tracking prints and locating half eaten branches. Then the glory of finding your prey just where you expected it to be ... you're downwind, he can't smell you or hear you, but you know the chase has been fun. Then you cock your bow and think, "No, you were good fun buddy. Maybe some other time". You decock your bow, jump from behind the bush and scream "BOO!" and the buck glances at you and takes off like the wind ... you think, "I could have killed you ... I could have." Traditionalist are like that. It's not the kill. It's man's brains against the animals instinct.Sure, we often make the kill ... but sometimes we just don't want to. Sometimes I even use paintball arrows to be able to puff out my chest and say "hey, I gotcha!" Sitting in a tree stand is boring. Sitting in a hideout is boring. Get down on the ground with a 17 ounce bow, guys! And anyway ... who the h#ll wants to carry around a five pound bow? Gawd! When I'm on the hunt, the heaviest thing I carry is my lunch. Besides a compound bow costs what ... $300 plus accessories? For that money I bought all my tools and have made 117 bows (that's right ... one hundred and seventeen bows for three hundred dollars!). I got Maple, ash, cherry, birch, ironwood, oak, elm bows ... and my favorites, my 13 Yew bows ranging from 32# to 90# @ 28" (And I got those staves because I traded a guy for some birch!) I can hear the flames crackling. But hey ... just my opinion, and flaming me won't change it. :) Good hunting! -- Stephen Fraser Bowyer/Fletcher email: removethisbit.frasers@surenet.net ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!amsterdam.news.unisource.nl!news.IAEhv.nl!darla.visi.com!chippy.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.bctel.net!not-for-mail From: Ted Edwards Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 10:15:52 -0700 Organization: BCTEL Advanced Communications Lines: 7 Message-ID: <35421A48.6D57@bc.sympatico.ca> References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> Reply-To: Ted_E@bc.sympatico.ca NNTP-Posting-Host: pntn02m02-117.bctel.ca Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-SYMPA (Win95; U) Very interesting and I'm glad you enjoy it. But you come across as the type of person who says everyone not doing it my way is wrong. Lighten up a bit. Ted ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-dc.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!nyd.news.ans.net!newsfeeds.ans.net!newsxfer.itd.umich.edu!uunet!in3.uu.net!news.nwlink.com!not-for-mail From: Sammy & Juli Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 13:34:20 -0700 Organization: Northwest Link Lines: 32 Message-ID: <35439A4C.ABE6770@nwlink.com> References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> <354231E8.60CA@penn.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip148.usr6.usw.du.nwlink.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; U) To: Gregg Xref: ccw.ch alt.archery:5 rec.sport.archery:127 Gregg wrote: < very large snip > > No offense but your a JERK! Sorry, I can't resist. I picked this off of the 'groups about a year or so ago: 'Your' is an adjective - the possessive form of 'YOU'. "Your a jerk" is completely wrong. The correct way to write this, along with your name, would be one of the following: 1) "you're a jerk", this informs us that you think the person to whom you're writing is the jerk. 2) "your jerk", this lets us know that you are our jerk, (the way I personally think your name should be read). Sammy. -- Home Page - http://www.nwlink.com/~sammy/Derezes%20Home%20Page.htm ###### Message-ID: <354231E8.60CA@penn.com> Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 14:56:40 -0400 From: Gregg Organization: Chaos & Confusion X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01Gold (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.22.28.27 X-Trace: 25 Apr 1998 18:56:37 -0600, 208.22.28.27 Lines: 91 Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!news9.digex.net!digex!newsfeed.kcdata.com!news5.kcdata.com!208.22.28.27 A. Stephen Fraser wrote: > > In article <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com>, > phildyson@aol.com says... > > > >60# Pacific Yew Self Bow, Maple shaft with Canada Goose feather, 550 > > >gr., 175 fps ... boom. Instinct one, Technology zero. > > > > > >-Stephen Fraser > > >-Bowyer, Fletcher > > > > Technology Zero? > > I guess you don't use plastic nocks, fletch-tite or hot-melt glue, and dacron > > strings? > > What kind of BH do you use, one you cut out and sharpened yourself or are you a > > flint napper too? > > That's right. Technology ZERO. > > No plastic nocks, I make my own arrows and make self nocks. I fletch them > with Canada Goose feather using hide glue, then bind them on with silk in > true medieval fashion. As for strings, I always make my own Flemish or > endless loop strings out of Irish linen or (when I can get hold of it) > hemp. > > Actually, my broadheads are provided by a friend who makes them from .050 > gauge steel and sharpens them himself. I trade him 2 arrows for a > broadhead. > > Btw ... someone had mentioned that if I was speaking truthfully about > "technology zero" than I wouldn't be using a chronometer to gauge the speed > of my arrow flight. > > Again, I say technology _zero_. I don't use a chrono. I don't even know > what the thing looks like! I estimate my arrow speed. And judging by the > times I've estimated arrow speed on a previously clocked bow, I'm pretty > darned accurate (+/- 10 fps). (Btw, for the perfectionists out there who > think my 175 fps from a 60# stick bow is slow, please bear in mind that > use maple shafts ... they're slow but MAN do they penetrate!) > > Y'know, I'm only 30 years old (started bowmaking at 25) and I cannot > believe that so many archers have never heard of "old fashioned" methods, > or don't believe that one can make successful hunting equipment by using a > little elbow grease and some "guts and glory". > > This will probably be taken as an insult by everyone who uses a compound > bow, but I'll throw my two cents in here anyway. Remember in 1992 and 1993 > when the Toronto Blue Jays won the World Series? Well, I'm from Toronto > and I know darn well that we virtually bought the World Series by paying > top dollar for any great player who would come. Shooting with a compound > is like buying a deer. If you've paid more for your equipment than you did > for your hunting licence, you should rethink your strategy. Anybody can > spend a thousand dollars on equipment and harvest a buck. But it takes a > real man to stalk them on the ground, watching their scrape patterns, > tracking prints and locating half eaten branches. Then the glory of > finding your prey just where you expected it to be ... you're downwind, he > can't smell you or hear you, but you know the chase has been fun. Then you > cock your bow and think, "No, you were good fun buddy. Maybe some other > time". You decock your bow, jump from behind the bush and scream "BOO!" > and the buck glances at you and takes off like the wind ... you think, "I > could have killed you ... I could have." Traditionalist are like that. > It's not the kill. It's man's brains against the animals instinct.Sure, we > often make the kill ... but sometimes we just don't want to. Sometimes I > even use paintball arrows to be able to puff out my chest and say "hey, I > gotcha!" > > Sitting in a tree stand is boring. Sitting in a hideout is boring. Get > down on the ground with a 17 ounce bow, guys! > > And anyway ... who the h#ll wants to carry around a five pound bow? Gawd! > When I'm on the hunt, the heaviest thing I carry is my lunch. > > Besides a compound bow costs what ... $300 plus accessories? For that > money I bought all my tools and have made 117 bows (that's right ... one > hundred and seventeen bows for three hundred dollars!). I got Maple, ash, > cherry, birch, ironwood, oak, elm bows ... and my favorites, my 13 Yew bows > ranging from 32# to 90# @ 28" (And I got those staves because I traded a > guy for some birch!) > > I can hear the flames crackling. But hey ... just my opinion, and flaming > me won't change it. :) > > Good hunting! > > -- > Stephen Fraser > Bowyer/Fletcher > > email: removethisbit.frasers@surenet.net No offense but your a JERK! ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!ubnnews.unisource.ch!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!masternews.telia.net!Cabal.CESspool!bofh.vszbr.cz!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!News.Toronto.iSTAR.net!news.istar.net!island.idirect.com!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!usenet From: nospamfrasers@surenet.net (A. Stephen Fraser) Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 17:54:46 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> <35421A48.6D57@bc.sympatico.ca> Reply-To: nospam.frasers@surenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.154.111.21 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 Xref: ccw.ch alt.archery:4 rec.sport.archery:126 In article <35421A48.6D57@bc.sympatico.ca>, Ted_E@bc.sympatico.ca says... > Very interesting and I'm glad you enjoy it. But you come across as the > type of person who says everyone not doing it my way is wrong. Lighten > up a bit. > > Ted Sorry if it came across that way, Ted, but I'm a bit of an "anti- compounder". And btw, thanks for letting me know your opinion in a "non-flaming" manner. My apologies to all of the compunders who feel I was a bit harsh. Sorry, I was just expressing _my_ opinion. No compounding is not wrong ... I just feel everyone should try traditional archery just once ... just to see what it's like. (And btw ... yes I've tried hunting with a compound to see what it's like) Again, my apologies to compounders. ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!usenet From: nospamfrasers@surenet.net (A. Stephen Fraser) Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:00:39 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> <354231E8.60CA@penn.com> Reply-To: nospam.frasers@surenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.154.111.21 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 Xref: ccw.ch alt.archery:1 rec.sport.archery:123 In article <354231E8.60CA@penn.com>, glb@penn.com says... > > That's right. Technology ZERO. > > > > No plastic nocks, I make my own arrows and make self nocks. I fletch them > > with Canada Goose feather using hide glue, then bind them on with silk in > > > > Good hunting! > > > > -- > > Stephen Fraser > > Bowyer/Fletcher > No offense but your a JERK! > Laugh out loud. Okay I'm a jerk for my opinion ... but quoting my _entire_ message for five words? Sorry, I don't know you, so I don't know whether you are a regular or not, but NG's have a code of standards called "nettiquette". If you don't know what it is, feel free to ask someone. They can help you. Oh, and by the way, no offense taken. (and you meant "you're", not "your") ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!usenet From: nospamfrasers@surenet.net (A. Stephen Fraser) Newsgroups: alt.archery,rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Date: Sun, 26 Apr 1998 18:01:44 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <1998042421024200.RAA21636@ladder01.news.aol.com> <354231E8.60CA@penn.com> Reply-To: nospam.frasers@surenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.154.111.21 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 Xref: ccw.ch alt.archery:2 rec.sport.archery:124 In article <354231E8.60CA@penn.com>, glb@penn.com says... > > That's right. Technology ZERO. > > > > No plastic nocks, I make my own arrows and make self nocks. I fletch them > > with Canada Goose feather using hide glue, then bind them on with silk in > > > > Good hunting! > > > > -- > > Stephen Fraser > > Bowyer/Fletcher > No offense but your a JERK! > Laugh out loud. Okay I'm a jerk for my opinion ... but quoting my _entire_ message for five words? Sorry, I don't know you, so I don't know whether you are a regular or not, but NG's have a code of standards called "netiquette". If you don't know what it is, feel free to ask someone. They can help you. Oh, and by the way, no offense taken. (and you meant "you're", not "your") -- Stephen Fraser Bowyer/Fletcher ICQ: 9825255 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.belnet.be!news-penn.gip.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: ladybow1@aol.com (Ladybow1) Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Lines: 11 Message-ID: <1998042817155800.NAA01001@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 28 Apr 1998 17:15:58 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: Excuse my ignorance but.........Regardless of how much you spend on your archery equipment you STILL have to hunt to harvest that buck. I am glad that you like to build your own equipment and agree that bow prices are sometimes very expensive. Some people like simple and some people like gadgets but in all cases you usually get what you pay for as far as equipment is concerned. Payment doesn't have to in money either- I am sure you took the time to make and adjust your equipment to certain specifications I don't have the luxury of that time so I spend money for my equipment but as far as harvesting that buck because I paid 500 bucks for my bow ---- that is ridiculous!!! Thanks - Alison ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.uk.ibm.net!sackheads.org!ibm.net!europa.clark.net!205.252.116.205!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey03.news.aol.com!not-for-mail From: horsthaus@aol.com (Horsthaus) Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Truly conventional archery. WAS: Weight vs Speed vs Energy Lines: 18 Message-ID: <1998050213421600.JAA19164@ladder03.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder03.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 02 May 1998 13:42:16 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <1998042817155800.NAA01001@ladder03.news.aol.com> ladybow1@aol.com (Ladybow1) wrote: >Excuse my ignorance but.........Regardless of how much you spend on your >archery equipment you STILL have to hunt to harvest that buck. You are not displaying ignorance, Alison, but Mr. Fraser did when he made his ridiculous statement about compound bows. >I don't have the luxury of that time so I >spend money for my equipment As do most of us. I agree with your point. I am and have been a "traditional" archer for the last several years. I have never been able to figure out the elitist attitudes displayed by some archers on both sides. As far as I am concerned, we are on the same team. Shoot what you like and whatever you are comfortable shooting. Either way, deer hunting is a challenge, and tackle choice is not as relevant as hunting skill. Regards, Michael Horst