Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!decibels.demon.co.uk!gordon From: Gordon Brown Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Is there such a thing as Too Much Spine? Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 08:40:08 +0100 Organization: Activ Acoustics Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: decibels.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: decibels.demon.co.uk:194.222.127.175 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 893490054 nnrp-11:14347 NO-IDENT decibels.demon.co.uk:194.222.127.175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Version 3.05 Lines: 25 I recently shot in a friendly match (indoors, 15 yards) against our neighbouring club where one of the other team was shooting with the most bizarre combination I've ever seen:- a recurve drawing about 32 pounds at 29 inches, and *2613* X7's fletched with 4 inch feathers and *200* grain points (standard points filled with solder)!!!!! It looked like he was shooting telegraph poles and from behind the flight can only be describes as 'eccentric', with the arrows following a lazy path to the target, the tails waving in all directions at once. HOWEVER - almost every group of three was as tight as you like and the scores he was achieving were incredible, no doubt helped by the arrow diameter. He let me have a go with his kit afterwards and I couldn't believe how damned accurate it was, every shot touching the one in front. Has anyone else tried this sort of set-up, and can anyone explain why it works? -- Gordon Brown Browning Olympian, Arten Summit II, 3-18 ACC's Acoustics Enthusiast, ex-eater of T-bone steaks & oxtail stew, ex-drinker of untreated milk, ex-owner of several very nice target pistols, living in the land of the nanny state...where I'm now told that my blood plasma is unfit for medical use, and not due to the alcohol content either.... ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!sibyl.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!rill.news.pipex.net!pipex!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news.uunet.ca!news.auracom.net!usenet From: nospamfrasers@surenet.net (A. Stephen Fraser) Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as Too Much Spine? Date: Sat, 25 Apr 1998 17:31:22 -0400 Organization: Auracom Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: Reply-To: nospam.frasers@surenet.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ip19.surenet.net X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10.920 In article , gordon@decibels.demon.co.uk says... > I recently shot in a friendly match (indoors, 15 yards) against our > neighbouring club where one of the other team was shooting with the most > bizarre combination I've ever seen:- a recurve drawing about 32 pounds > at 29 inches, and *2613* X7's fletched with 4 inch feathers and *200* > grain points (standard points filled with solder)!!!!! > > It looked like he was shooting telegraph poles and from behind the > flight can only be describes as 'eccentric', with the arrows following a > lazy path to the target, the tails waving in all directions at once. Is there such a thing as too much spine? Absolutely yes, but I don't think this was the cause of the erratic arrow flight. If his arrows had of been firing left, I would say yes, too much spine. But you said his groupings were good which leads me to one conclusion: He's got the right spine, the right length for his draw, but what he's doing is trying to force the arrow to fly straight by putting more weight on the front. Consequently, the rear of the arrow can wiggle, wiggle, wiggle, but the head will hit the target on the mark. Korean archers used VERY small fletchings, but footed the shaft with metal to achieve the same goal. If I were him, I'd drop to a 125 gr. point, and go with 5½" feathers that were about 5/8" to 3/4" high (helical fletch preferably). That will stabilize the arrows _much_ faster. But hey, if he likes it and he can score higher than I can, who am I to say?!? :) Cheers! -- Stephen Fraser Bowyer/Fletcher ICQ: 9825255 ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed1.news.luth.se!luth.se!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!howland.erols.net!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news1.best.com!sdd.hp.com!col.hp.com!fc.hp.com!scot From: scot@fc.hp.com (Scot Heath) Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as Too Much Spine? Date: 27 Apr 1998 14:56:36 GMT Organization: Hewlett-Packard Fort Collins Site Lines: 33 Message-ID: <6i26b4$qku@fcnews.fc.hp.com> References: Reply-To: scot@removethis.fc.hp.com NNTP-Posting-Host: hpfiseh.fc.hp.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.11] Gordon Brown (gordon@decibels.demon.co.uk) wrote: : I recently shot in a friendly match (indoors, 15 yards) against our : neighbouring club where one of the other team was shooting with the most : bizarre combination I've ever seen:- a recurve drawing about 32 pounds : at 29 inches, and *2613* X7's fletched with 4 inch feathers and *200* : grain points (standard points filled with solder)!!!!! Add about 8" to the shaft and you have nearly the same setup as the winning setup (and nearly all the top 10, I imagine) at Las Vegas this year. The heavy points give extreme FOC which aids stability. On my compound, I shoot 28-1/2" 2613 X7's with 2.5" feathers and 100 grain points. They are, of course, way way over spined according to the charts but I'm convinced that shooting with a release and a shoot through rest, you can't be over spined. They don't wiggle at all, and I get bare shaft touching fletched shaft at 20 yards. A recurve with fingers is a different beast. I bet he gets rotten tears and can't bare shaft tune but, who cares? You can't argue with success. -Scot -- ***ANTI-SPAM ALERT*** Note the "removethis." in the return address. You know what to do. DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Everything I write is my opinion only. Nobody else would want it. DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER_DISCLAIMER Scot E. Heath "Nothing beats turning clay to dust." Fort Collins, CO scot@removethis.fc.hp.com ###### Path: ccw.ch!elna.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-kar1.dfn.de!newsfeed.nacamar.de!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newsfeed.internetmci.com!205.231.236.10!newspeer.monmouth.com!news1.ispnews.com!news11.ispnews.com!not-for-mail From: "Philip M. D'Amato" Newsgroups: rec.sport.archery Subject: Re: Is there such a thing as Too Much Spine? Date: Wed, 29 Apr 1998 23:23:07 -0400 Organization: ISPNews http://ispnews.com Lines: 51 Message-ID: <6i8qlq$36f$1@news6.ispnews.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-violet-42.bway.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Well, if it works, it works. About the spine, though: I'd guess that the extra heavy points are necessary in this case, because that'll weaken the spine of that awfully stiff shaft. 2613 shafts are not as heavy as the 26 implies -- the 13 wall is pretty thin, though. For comparison, I shoot 2012s when shooting aluminum, drawing about 43# (maybe a little on the weak side, but I've recently upped the poundage from 39#, and haven't decided if I need to move to 21 or 2212s). The closest I've seen personally to your example, is someone I know (a superb archer, imo), shooting 2514 (I think) at 46#, with 5(!) 4" feathers. I've seen him shoot 580s at 18m. Much better than me :( -- Philip M. D'Amato pdamato@bway.net \\\\\\\\ >>>>>>>>>>===Comanche=Bowmen======Brooklyn=NY==USA========> //////// Gordon Brown wrote in message ... |I recently shot in a friendly match (indoors, 15 yards) against our |neighbouring club where one of the other team was shooting with the most |bizarre combination I've ever seen:- a recurve drawing about 32 pounds |at 29 inches, and *2613* X7's fletched with 4 inch feathers and *200* |grain points (standard points filled with solder)!!!!! | |It looked like he was shooting telegraph poles and from behind the |flight can only be describes as 'eccentric', with the arrows following a |lazy path to the target, the tails waving in all directions at once. | |HOWEVER - almost every group of three was as tight as you like and the |scores he was achieving were incredible, no doubt helped by the arrow |diameter. | |He let me have a go with his kit afterwards and I couldn't believe how |damned accurate it was, every shot touching the one in front. | |Has anyone else tried this sort of set-up, and can anyone explain why it |works? |-- |Gordon Brown Browning Olympian, Arten Summit II, 3-18 ACC's |Acoustics Enthusiast, ex-eater of T-bone steaks & oxtail stew, ex-drinker of |untreated milk, ex-owner of several very nice target pistols, living in the |land of the nanny state...where I'm now told that my blood plasma is unfit for |medical use, and not due to the alcohol content either....