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From: "Greg von Beck" <gregvb@asu.edu>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: question about a merovingian persona
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 09:31:32 -0700
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After looking through the work of Gregory of tours on Frankish history, I am
still at a loss on a few items.  I have chosen Gailen for my first name.  I
however don't know if I should have a surname.  I don't believe this is the
case because no one in the book had last names.  However they also don't
have any other addition to their names "of zulrich" for instance.  If
someone knows how this works or even where I can find help please let me
know.

Greg

######

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From: Joshua Mittleman <mittle@watson.ibm.com>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: 12 May 1998 13:16:44 -0400
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Greetings from Arval!

> After looking through the work of Gregory of tours on Frankish history, I am
> still at a loss on a few items.  I have chosen Gailen for my first name.

Is there a <Gailen> in Frankish history?  That's interesting; can you post
the details?

> I however don't know if I should have a surname.  I don't believe this is
> the case because no one in the book had last names.  However they also
> don't have any other addition to their names "of zulrich" for instance.

It depends on when you want to set your persona.  In the period that I
think of as "Frankish", people used only a single name.  There were no last
names of any kind.

If you want to register your name, unfortunately, the College of Arms
requires you to choose a second names of some kind.  Your best bet would be
to describe yourself either as your father's son or by the place where you
live.  The standard Latin forms (since Latin was the written language of
your period) are 

  <first name> de <place name> or <first name> <adjective form of place name>
  <first name> filius <father's name in the genitive (possessive) case>

For example, if you are <Gailen>, your father is <Ludovicus>, and you live
in Liege, you might be called <Galenus filius Ludovici> and <Galenus
Legionensis>.  (These are subject to the errors in my very weak Latin.
Talan will correct me, no doubt.)  Neither of these forms would really be
"your name" in the modern sense.  Your name is <Gailen>.  These longer
forms are just ways that you might have been described if it were necessary
to say more about you than just your name; and you might have used
different descriptions in different circumstances.

===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord                                         mittle@panix.com

######

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From: "Gailen" <greg.vonbeck@azwest.net>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 12:58:39 -0700
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>Greetings from Arval!
>
>> After looking through the work of Gregory of tours on Frankish history, I
am
>> still at a loss on a few items.  I have chosen Gailen for my first name.
>
>Is there a <Gailen> in Frankish history?  That's interesting; can you post
>the details?

In the book The name Gailen is refered to once.  He is a servent of one of
the merovingian kings.  I do not recall exactly which one though.  Not
exactly a big part, but he is there.

>
>> I however don't know if I should have a surname.  I don't believe this is
>> the case because no one in the book had last names.  However they also
>> don't have any other addition to their names "of zulrich" for instance.
>
>It depends on when you want to set your persona.  In the period that I
>think of as "Frankish", people used only a single name.  There were no last
>names of any kind.
>
>If you want to register your name, unfortunately, the College of Arms
>requires you to choose a second names of some kind.  Your best bet would be
>to describe yourself either as your father's son or by the place where you
>live.  The standard Latin forms (since Latin was the written language of
>your period) are
>
>  <first name> de <place name> or <first name> <adjective form of place
name>
>  <first name> filius <father's name in the genitive (possessive) case>
>
>For example, if you are <Gailen>, your father is <Ludovicus>, and you live
>in Liege, you might be called <Galenus filius Ludovici> and <Galenus
>Legionensis>.  (These are subject to the errors in my very weak Latin.
>Talan will correct me, no doubt.)  Neither of these forms would really be
>"your name" in the modern sense.  Your name is <Gailen>.  These longer
>forms are just ways that you might have been described if it were necessary
>to say more about you than just your name; and you might have used
>different descriptions in different circumstances.
>

If you would not mind, could you translate <Gailen of Zulrich> into latin
for me.
Thank you for your help.

Gailen

>===========================================================================
>Arval d'Espas Nord                                         mittle@panix.com
>

######

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From: mittle@panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: 12 May 1998 16:48:08 -0400
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> In the book The name Gailen is refered to once.  He is a servent of one of
> the merovingian kings.  I do not recall exactly which one though.  Not
> exactly a big part, but he is there.

Interesting.  If you (or anyone) can quote the passage (ideally in the
original text, of course, but I know that's asking a lot), it would be
interesting to see it.

> If you would not mind, could you translate <Gailen of Zulrich> into latin
> for me.

I can't; but perhaps someone else can.  Is <Zulrich> a real place (or is
that a typo for <Zurich>)?  If it is a real place, then the first step is
to find the medieval Latin form of the name.  Then we have to make it an
adjective.  

===========================================================================
Arval d'Espas Nord                                         mittle@panix.com

######

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From: stevem@faculty.unipissing.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: Wed, 13 May 1998 02:39:38 GMT
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In article <6jaci8$nct@panix5.panix.com>,
  mittle@panix.com wrote:

> Is <Zulrich> a real place (or is
> that a typo for <Zurich>)?  If it is a real place, then the first step is
> to find the medieval Latin form of the name.  Then we have to make it an
> adjective.

The best place to look for such things is the on-line Orbis Latinus, at
http://kwaziwai.cc.columbia.edu/acis/ets/Graesse/contents.html

However, neither Zulrich nor Zurich was there when I just looked.

Steve Muhlberger

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From: stevem@faculty.unipissing.ca
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: Tue, 12 May 1998 19:22:34 GMT
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In article <6j9sui$beh@news.asu.edu>,
  "Greg von Beck" <gregvb@asu.edu> wrote:
>
> After looking through the work of Gregory of tours on Frankish history, I am
> still at a loss on a few items.  I have chosen Gailen for my first name.  I
> however don't know if I should have a surname.

Are you from a Roman or Frankish background?

Gauls from a Roman background might have more than one name, in the good old
Roman fashion.  Gregory himself had three names (can't find my copy to look
up what they were, though).

I am unaware that most Franks had more than one name.  (There was someone
called Guntram Boso, just off the top of my head.)

"Names" like the phrase "of Tours" were a convenience and not fixed part of
the name. Gregory was "of Tours" because he was bishop of Tours.  This
designation over the centuries has helped distinguish him from another Gregory
of almost exactly the same age:  Gregory the Great, Gregory bishop of Rome.

So you can have additional names or adjectives for various purposes without
making them a permanent part of your name.

Steve Muhlberger
Associate Professor of History
Nipissing University

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######

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From: Neil Franklin <root@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: 13 May 1998 23:42:21 +0200
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From: mittle@panix.com (Arval d'Espas Nord)
> > If you would not mind, could you translate <Gailen of Zulrich> into latin
> > for me.
> 
> I can't; but perhaps someone else can.  Is <Zulrich> a real place (or is
> that a typo for <Zurich>)?  If it is a real place, then the first step is
> to find the medieval Latin form of the name.  Then we have to make it an
> adjective.  

If it is misspelled and should be Zurich and is meant to be the town
Zurich in Switzerland, then the Latin name is Turicum. AFAIK the
adjective form is Turicumensis.

BTW I dimly remember once hearing of an reference to an Gallenus or
Galleius in local history, so that may be the one he is looing for.

Neil "works in Zurich" Franklin

-- 
private: Neil.Franklin@ccw.ch.remove http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/
office: franklin@arch.ethz.ch.remove http://caad.arch.ethz.ch/~franklin/
Lawyers are killing society, perhaps we should return the favour.

######

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From: phefner@aol.com (Phefner)
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
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>BTW I dimly remember once hearing of an reference to an Gallenus or
>Galleius in local history, so that may be the one he is looing for.
>
>

Could that be St. Gall (questionable spelling), the Irish monk who started a
school in what is now St. Gallen, one of the cantons in Switzerland?

Isabelle de Foix
College of Misty Mere
Kingdom of Meridies

######

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From: Neil Franklin <root@chonsp.franklin.lugs.ch>
Newsgroups: rec.org.sca
Subject: Re: question about a merovingian persona
Date: 14 May 1998 23:27:17 +0200
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phefner@aol.com (Phefner) asked:
> 
> >BTW I dimly remember once hearing of an reference to an Gallenus or
> >Galleius in local history, so that may be the one he is looing for.
> 
> Could that be St. Gall (questionable spelling), the Irish monk who started a
> school in what is now St. Gallen, one of the cantons in Switzerland?

No, that would not be. St Gallus was IIRC somewhere in the A.D.600-900
range and I an sure that the Gallen(i)us I am thinking about is later
and also had no St in front of him.

So these must be two different people.

-- 
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