From: ldcharls@swbell.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:44:46 +0000 Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Richardson, TX Lines: 11 Message-ID: <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-193-44-24.austtx.swbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net 883345241 3268 (None) 207.193.44.24 X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-SBMH (Macintosh; I; 68K) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!151.164.1.34!swbell!not-for-mail Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > culture. Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country affected the common law and culture of a society, just like it does today. Nothing religious about culture? That's as silly as saying there's nothing political about government. ###### From: Nic Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 15:57:51 -0800 Organization: Organa-what? Lines: 14 Message-ID: <34A6E77F.7FF6@pacbell.net> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> Reply-To: nahales@pacbell.net NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-104-139-164.sntc01.pacbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-PBWG (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.he.net!news.pbi.net!news.pacbell.net!not-for-mail M'lord or M'lady, I do believe this was intended as sarcasm. Fear not. Diedre > > Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > > culture. > > Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, > excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, > notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country > affected the common law and culture of a society, just like it does > today. > Nothing religious about culture? That's as silly as saying there's > nothing political about government. ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 19:13:47 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 11 Sender: bjm10@cornell.edu (Verified) Message-ID: <34A6EB3B.2691@cornell.edu> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> Reply-To: bjm10@cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Host: cu-dialup-1028.cit.cornell.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.03 (Win95; U) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-xfer.netaxs.com!news-xfer.mccc.edu!news.lightlink.com!news.graphics.cornell.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!usenet ldcharls@swbell.net wrote: > > Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > > culture. > > Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, > excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, Please look up the words "sarcasm" and "irony" in a book called a "dictionary". ###### From: tomansky Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:22:48 -0500 Organization: gte.net Lines: 18 Message-ID: <6871hb$ibh$1@gte2.gte.net> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 1cust27.tnt2.tampa.fl.gt.uu.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Auth: C257DA500691CF9042C88491 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win16; I) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!wilbur.ohww.norman.ok.us!news.gte.net!not-for-mail ldcharls@swbell.net wrote: > Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > > culture. > > Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, > excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, > notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country > affected the common law and culture of a society, just like it does > today. > Nothing religious about culture? That's as silly as saying there's > nothing political about government. Please God, tell me that the sarcasm was so obvious that you are tweaking his nose, that you DO know what sarcasm, satire, irony, or even humor mean? Please, please, PLEASE ... ###### From: Anthony Bryant Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Sun, 28 Dec 1997 21:25:01 -0500 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <34A709FB.6363@sprintmail.com> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.38.24 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0-C-AICK1-2 (Macintosh; U; PPC) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-dc-3.sprintlink.net!news-dc-1.sprintlink.net!news-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-peer-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!news.sprintisp.com!sprintisp!not-for-mail ldcharls@swbell.net wrote: > > Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > > culture. > > Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, > excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, > notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country > affected the common law and culture of a society, just like it does > today. > Nothing religious about culture? That's as silly as saying there's > nothing political about government. Maybe you missed the point. Bryan was being SARCASTIC, in response to some other person (whom you SHOULD be adressing) who suggested that religion had nothing to do with the middle ages. Edward who thinks we need to read posts more carefully ###### From: ldcharls@swbell.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 00:49:43 +0000 Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Richardson, TX Lines: 16 Message-ID: <34A6F3A7.1BD3@swbell.net> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> <34A6EB3B.2691@cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-193-25-71.austtx.swbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net 883377938 5994 (None) 207.193.25.71 X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-SBMH (Macintosh; I; 68K) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!atl-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!151.164.1.34!swbell!not-for-mail Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > ldcharls@swbell.net wrote: > > > > Bryan J. Maloney wrote: > > > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western > > > culture. > > > > Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, > > excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, > > Please look up the words "sarcasm" and "irony" in a book called a > "dictionary". Please give some indication of sarcasm or irony in your post. Looks like a straightforward negative from here. ###### From: ldcharls@swbell.net Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: Mon, 29 Dec 1997 01:14:59 +0000 Organization: Southwestern Bell Internet Services, Richardson, TX Lines: 14 Message-ID: <34A6F994.634D@swbell.net> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> <34A709FB.6363@sprintmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-207-193-26-23.austtx.swbell.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net 883379455 7494 (None) 207.193.26.23 X-Complaints-To: usenet@nnrp3.rcsntx.swbell.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01-C-SBMH (Macintosh; I; 68K) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.internetmci.com!206.229.87.25!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-sea-19.sprintlink.net!news-in-west.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!151.164.1.34!swbell!not-for-mail Anthony Bryant wrote: > > Maybe you missed the point. Bryan was being SARCASTIC, in response to > some other person (whom you SHOULD be adressing) who suggested that > religion had nothing to do with the middle ages. > > Edward > who thinks we need to read posts more carefully Maybe we need to check back posts more clearly. BJM was responding to a request that he claify the SCA's mission statement and how (in his opinion) it relates to this discussion. There was nothing in his reply to indicate he was being sarcastic. Assinine, perhaps, but not sarcastic. ###### From: gwynaron@nova.dreamscape.com (Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 29 Dec 1997 08:29:06 GMT Organization: Dreamscape Online Lines: 61 Message-ID: <687n0i$qid$1@news.dreamscape.com> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: nova.dreamscape.com X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2] Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!news.ecn.uoknor.edu!munnari.OZ.AU!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!fci-se!fci!newsfeed.dreamscape.com!news.dreamscape.com!nova.dreamscape.com!gwynaron ldcharls@swbell.net wrote: : Bryan J. Maloney wrote: : > Oh, no there was NEVER anything religious about pre-17th century Western : > culture. : Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, : excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, : notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country : affected the common law and culture of a society, just like it does : today. : Nothing religious about culture? That's as silly as saying there's : nothing political about government. I personally play the part of a third century bce Celt who has somehow been drawn into Medieval Europe. (Don't bother me with saying that my idea isn't period or historical because I'm 1) Irish and won't listen, and 2) Not going to listen to you since I was obviously there and know that it did happen.) But to the point of this post, it is undeniable that Christianity (henceforth to be abbrieviated as Xianity, etc.), was present during all parts of the Middle Ages for good or ill. It is also undeniable that Xianity was, at times, the most corrupt institution in the world. It is somewhat deniable that Xianity ever did any good in Europe. The point is, though, that religion played an important part in European history and we have to take it into account. Another point is that the SCA cannot make any rulings concerning religion in the Society that go counter to the religious rulings of the countries that it exists in. Members, however, are free to do whatever they like. If somee household wanted to put together a small army for the purpose of taking Xianity to the "godless heathens", there is nothing that the SCA can really say since that would be a thoroughly period action. If that were to be the case, let me say to that household that I could probably put together a small army of "godless heathens" and our friends who would be more than happy to meet you on the field of battle ;) At any rate, there's my two cents and my oar in the water so do with it what you will. Just a friendly word of advice, though. If you go around trying to shove your religion down people's throats then one of these days you're going to run into me--and I've got the sharp tongue of an Irish Bard to shove back with. But don't worry, I'd do it in a period manner. -- Thou Art God, Gwynn Aaron "Fair Mountain" Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody aka Thalion, Gwynarion, Cyranis, Macranium, etc, et al. -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |"No state has an inherent right to survive through conscript troops and | | in the long run, no state ever has. Roman matrons used to say to their| | sons: "Come back with your shield or on it." Later on, this custome | | declined. So did Rome." | | -Robert Anson Heinlein | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- |IRL : 920 Madison Ave. Apt. 2 786 South Main Street | | Syracuse, NY 13210 Amherst, OH 44001 | | The United States of America The United States of America | | (315)475-1852 (216)988-7420 | | | | URL : http://www.dreamscape.com/gwynaron/index.html | -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ###### Path: ccw.ch!usenet From: Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 01:20:25 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 62 Message-ID: References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> <687n0i$qid$1@news.dreamscape.com> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 gwynaron@nova.dreamscape.com (Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody) wrote: >But to the point of this post, it is undeniable that >Christianity (henceforth to be abbrieviated as Xianity, etc.), was present >during all parts of the Middle Ages for good or ill. It is also >undeniable that Xianity was, at times, the most corrupt institution in the >world. It is somewhat deniable that Xianity ever did any good in Europe. The medieval RCC was certainly corrupt, just look at Popes who preached celibacy and had multiple mistresses. Like any other institution that has power it got corrupted by it. But christianity as such (the set of beliefs widely spread at that time) was not corrupt, it was actually doing much good. Perhaps you have missed or not yet recieved my post in the "SCA is not for children" thread? In that I actually gave a list of the positive effects it had (was in response to a claim of not recreating religion because it was no good). Also many cherished SCA things (courtesy, chivalry, generosity) were derived from christianity while the middle ages. P.S. could you check up if that message got out and mail me it it didn't, so that I can repost it. I fear it has become yet annother victim of my news providers "christmas special" server crashes. gwynaron@nova.dreamscape.com (Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody) wrote: >Another point is that the SCA cannot make any rulings concerning >religion in the Society that go counter to the religious rulings of the >countries that it exists in. These rulings would be? In the US any non government sponsored organisation can limit its members as it wishes (not that I recommend or applause such limits). See the Boys Scouts remarks earlier on. And I strongly doubt that it would be illegal over here in Europe. gwynaron@nova.dreamscape.com (Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody) wrote: >Members, however, are free to do whatever >they like. If somee household wanted to put together a small army for the >purpose of taking Xianity to the "godless heathens", there is nothing that >the SCA can really say since that would be a thoroughly period action. Oh no they can't! See http://www.sca.org/docs/corpora.hbk.html under GOVERNING AND POLICY DECISIONS - 6. POLICY ON RELIGION: >Having no wish to recreate the religious conflicts of the period >under study, ...[snipped]... to force >anyone at a Society event, by direct or indirect pressure, to >observe or join the ceremony. IMHO taking Xianity to the "godless heathens" would be forcing them to take part in a "ceremony". And it certainly would be recreating the religious conflicts. -- Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam), http://www.ccw.ch/Neil.Franklin/ for Geek Code, Papernet, Voicenet, PGP public key see http: Any computer, that is running optimally, is outdated; including my Cx486 ###### From: pyotr@halcyon.com (pyotr filipivich) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:24:36 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 53 Message-ID: <68boqk$div$1@halcyon.com> References: <01bd0e1b$c93d8540$2ec644d1@ughf> <19971223031800.WAA22164@ladder01.news.aol.com> <34A03D54.70B4@cornell.edu> <67qv6u$fv2@access5.digex.net> <34A1639D.4E58@cornell.edu> <34A673EF.2D0D@swbell.net> <687n0i$qid$1@news.dreamscape.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.63.63.70!nwnews.wa.com!brokaw.wa.com!not-for-mail Neil.Franklin.nospam@ccw.ch (remove .nospam) writes: >gwynaron@nova.dreamscape.com (Gwynn Aaron Gareth Llewellyn Peabody) wrote: >>But to the point of this post, it is undeniable that >>Christianity (henceforth to be abbrieviated as Xianity, etc.), was present >>during all parts of the Middle Ages for good or ill. It is also >>undeniable that Xianity was, at times, the most corrupt institution in the >>world. It is somewhat deniable that Xianity ever did any good in Europe. >The medieval RCC was certainly corrupt, just look at Popes who >preached celibacy and had multiple mistresses. Like any other >institution that has power it got corrupted by it. Technical quibble (Uh-oh, authenticity zealot mode engaging :-)) Anyway, these licentious popes were sticking to the letter of the canon - they were celibate. I.e. "not married". To have wed their mistress would have been "bad" and against canon law. Canon law is rather vauge about mistresses, for some reason. Now, vows of chastity are another subject entire :-) As for the "corrupt" nature of the organization - this too was addressed in period. The Benedictines, the Carmelites, the Waldesnigens, the Hutterites, the Devotio Moderno, the Fransiscans, the Jesuits, etc were all in part attempts to address the lack of piety "in these decadent modern times." Unfortunately, the problems returned; in part because there is always a need for Organizational People, and such sometimes are not as ... pious, as the founder. >But christianity as such (the set of beliefs widely spread at >that time) was not corrupt, it was actually doing much good. It may not have been what _we_ would be considering an improvement, but ... one works with what one has. The writtings of Paul are full of traditional admonitions to underlings (children, wives, slaves/workers) combined with admonitions "afflicting the comfortable" (the responsibilities before Almighty God That Go With "Rank". :-) ) But I am straying from the charter. salve Nikolai Petrovich Flandropoff Whimiscal Order of the Ailing Wit Scribe & Zampollet to Clan MacFlandry Loose Canon, An Tir Heavy Opera Company Medieval News of the Day Poster Childe Semi-offical TASS correspondent (That makes me - the Demi-Tass) -- pyotr filipivich, SCA: Nikolai Petrovich. There is no fish in the edress. New Years Day: when the future transforms itself from the Beautiful Promise of Tomorrow into the Ugly Reality of Today, and the disgusting miasma of Now moves into the Rosy Netherworld of Yesteryear. ###### From: pyotr@halcyon.com (pyotr filipivich) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 13:33:50 -0800 Organization: Northwest Nexus Inc. Lines: 56 Message-ID: <68bpbu$dtq$1@halcyon.com> References: <6871hb$ibh$1@gte2.gte.net> <19971230180600.NAA29284@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chinook.halcyon.com X-Newsreader: NN version 6.5.1 (NOV) Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-peer-east.sprintlink.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news-pull.sprintlink.net!news-in-east.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!206.63.63.70!nwnews.wa.com!brokaw.wa.com!not-for-mail drafnlord@aol.com (Drafn Lord) writes: >>> Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, >>> excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, >>> notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country >>> affected the common law and >As I remember it, we reenact the best of the middle ages and leave out the >worst. Reliogn was a integral(SP) part of the daily life of the person in the >middle ages. It rulled when they ate prayed and what they ate. I am well >aware of religon in the middle ages, but chose to leave that out of my "game". >Especally such events as the inqusition. Once apun atime, a friend & I concocted a mad idea, to form our own version of the inquisition, based upon the model of the earlest instance. Said inquisition really was an "inquisition" into "what the heck is going on in those parts of the world." The idea being that we would be "accosting" folks and asking them "what is your favorite color?" "What do you think of the BoD?" - hey, a lapsed pentecostal and a unitarian are not going to be taking this _too_ seriously. >If you study our period there is no >way you can miss religon. I know the reality, but choose to recreate a ideal. And I will join you in recreating an ideal, even while I disagree with which "ideal" - I will join w/ Francis of Assisi (et al) and aim for _that_ ideal, rather than an non-offensive self-censoring abberation. Sorry if I offend anyone, but I find a lot of non-offensive efforts to be just to, well, offensive in their blandness. >(In my real life, wich is much more important than my SCA life, I am a >christian) By the way I do make some cloths from wool, and can only wear them 3 >to 4 months out of the year, but mostly cotton. Why you might ask? I live in >San Diego, CA., try wearing wool when the temp is 90 and the humity factor is >95. Mad dogs & English go out in the noon sun. This is a true saying and worthy of all to be believed. :-) tschus pyotr (now an anglo-catholic) Nikolai Petrovich, who is probably Grk Orthodox, except that he's fallen in with a bunch of Scots who'se chaplian is Anglican. Whimiscal Order of the Ailing Wit Scribe & Zampollet to Clan MacFlandry Loose Canon, An Tir Heavy Opera Company Medieval News of the Day Poster Childe Semi-offical TASS correspondent (That makes me - the Demi-Tass) -- pyotr filipivich, SCA: Nikolai Petrovich. There is no fish in the edress. New Years Day: when the future transforms itself from the Beautiful Promise of Tomorrow into the Ugly Reality of Today, and the disgusting miasma of Now moves into the Rosy Netherworld of Yesteryear. ###### From: drafnlord@aol.com (Drafn Lord) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 18:06:56 GMT Lines: 19 Message-ID: <19971230180600.NAA29284@ladder01.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder01.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <6871hb$ibh$1@gte2.gte.net> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!news-peer.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!Sprint!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> Oh, really? Perhaps you might explain such minor issues as crusades, >> excommunication, and the Spanish Inquisition, all of which had major, >> notable impact on medieval culture. The religious climate in a country >> affected the common law and As I remember it, we reenact the best of the middle ages and leave out the worst. Reliogn was a integral(SP) part of the daily life of the person in the middle ages. It rulled when they ate prayed and what they ate. I am well aware of religon in the middle ages, but chose to leave that out of my "game". Especally such events as the inqusition. If you study our period there is no way you can miss religon. I know the reality, but choose to recreate a ideal. (In my real life, wich is much more important than my SCA life, I am a christian) By the way I do make some cloths from wool, and can only wear them 3 to 4 months out of the year, but mostly cotton. Why you might ask? I live in San Diego, CA., try wearing wool when the temp is 90 and the humity factor is 95. Lady Jana Drafn, Calafia, CAId ###### From: drafnlord@aol.com (Drafn Lord) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 18:14:35 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <19971230181401.NAA27813@ladder02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <34A6F3A7.1BD3@swbell.net> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!newsxfer3.itd.umich.edu!news-out.internetmci.com!newsfeed.internetmci.com!152.163.199.19!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> Please look up the words "sarcasm" and "irony" in a book called a >> "dictionary". > >Please give some indication of sarcasm or irony in your post. Looks like >a straightforward negative from here. > > > Please calm down, we must remember that in wrighting we loose the vocal inflections and body language the would show sarcam or irony. Try to take a post with a large grane of salt. and yes I know my spelling the terriable, it's an awful handicap and not period. :-). Lady Jana Drafn, Cafafia, CAID ###### From: drafnlord@aol.com (Drafn Lord) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 30 Dec 1997 18:34:55 GMT Lines: 16 Message-ID: <19971230183401.NAA00312@ladder02.news.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder02.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com References: <687n0i$qid$1@news.dreamscape.com> Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.idt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!newstf02.news.aol.com!newstf01.news.aol.com!audrey02.news.aol.com!not-for-mail > I personally play the part of a third century bce Celt who has somehow >been drawn into Medieval Europe. (Don't bother me with saying that my >idea isn't period or historical because I'm 1) Irish and won't listen, and >2) Not going to listen to you since I was obviously there and know that it >did happen.) But to the point of this post, it is undeniable that >Christianity (henceforth to be abbrieviated as Xianity, etc.), was present >during all parts of the Middle Ages f Many years ago I was resurching were our Christmas traditions came from and one little intresting faks(SP) I came accross was that the Irish were christinized(is their such a word) by the 3rd century and founded the first monistary is the early 4th. and the celts no longer exsited by that time. Lady Janat. ###### From: wlinden@panix.com (Will Linden) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 31 Dec 1997 08:04:26 -0500 Organization: Friends of Carlotta Lines: 15 Message-ID: <68dfsq$npu@panix2.panix.com> References: <687n0i$qid$1@news.dreamscape.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix2.panix.com Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!newsfeed.usit.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!panix!news.panix.com!not-for-mail In <68chr6$nb8@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net> david.razler@worldnet.att.net (David M. Razler) writes: >You are confusing ethnicity and religion. >1) The Celts as an ethnic division existed long after the Society period. >Listening to a broadcast of news from Ireland about the continued "troubles" >in the "six Northern counties," yesterday, I was reminded that they still do. This has little if anything to do with being "Celtic". (Remember the "Protestants" are what we call "Scotch-Irish", RE-transplanted from from Scotland). Although there are "ethnic" fantasies promoted by fanatics on both sides, people in all parts of Ireland are by now the same sort of mixture as the rest of the British Isles. -- Will Linden wlinden@panix.com http://www.panix.com/~wlinden/ Magic Code: MAS/GD S++ W++ N+ PWM++ Ds/r+ A-> a++ C+ G- QO++ 666 Y ###### From: rhuff@cybercom.NET (Robert Huff) Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) Date: 31 Dec 1997 09:37:29 -0500 Organization: The Internet Lines: 25 Sender: inews-mailgate@bloom-beacon.mit.edu Message-ID: <199712311430.JAA05464@kalypso.cybercom.net> References: <68boqk$div$1@halcyon.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: bloom-beacon.mit.edu To: sca@mc.lcs.mit.edu Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!leto.ou.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cam-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.bbnplanet.com!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!INTERNET!news-mail-gateway Ave! pyotr filipivich writes: > Technical quibble (Uh-oh, authenticity zealot mode engaging :-)) > > Anyway, these licentious popes were sticking to the letter of > the canon - they were celibate. I.e. "not married". To have wed their > mistress would have been "bad" and against canon law. Canon law is > rather vauge about mistresses, for some reason. > > Now, vows of chastity are another subject entire :-) Are you sure about the definitions of "celibacy" and "chastity"? I am under the belief the former commonly means total abstention, and the latter means abstention outside permitted circumstances. One can be married and chaste, but not celibate. Diego Mundoz Carolingia ###### Message-ID: <34AAAD2A.1CF0@ibm.net> Date: Wed, 31 Dec 1997 14:38:02 -0600 From: Berwyn X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.0 (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.org.sca Subject: Re: Religion in the SCA??? (was Re: SCA is not for children) References: <68boqk$div$1@halcyon.com> <199712311430.JAA05464@kalypso.cybercom.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.72.151.235 Organization: IBM.NET Lines: 28 Path: ccw.ch!aetna.dolphins.ch!news.planetc.com!news-xfer.siscom.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsm.ibm.net!ibm.net!news1.ibm.net!166.72.151.235 > Are you sure about the definitions of "celibacy" and > "chastity"? I am under the belief the former commonly means > total abstention, and the latter means abstention outside > permitted circumstances. One can be married and chaste, but not > celibate. Depends on the marriage :) Although current common usage often considers celebacy to mean abtention, it does in fact mean to be unmarried. Since the "religious" view is that sex outside of marriage is wrong, if you are unmarried, you do not have sex. (Thats the way I was brought up) To be celebate to be unmarried. To be unmarried is to not have sex. Hence, to be celebate is to not have sex. To be chaste is to be devoid of licentuous lechery and all that nasty stuff. Since sex within marriage is not a sin, one can be chaste and married. In like fassion, once can be celebate (in either sense) and not be chaste. I don't have sex, but my thoughts are seldom pure. The women I'm interested in are chaste, but I can't catch them. I'm not sure English has a word which means "abstaining from sexual intercourse", so I gues "celibacy" has evolved to fit that. The other term I've seen to refer to that state is "dysfunctinal", which I resent. I function just fine, I just haven't been laid since the Regan administration. (Yea, I know, we all got screwed then. Don't start.) Berwyn, sweet old man.