Message-ID: <3939DF03.D651A194@earthlink.net> From: Michael Benchoff Reply-To: mbenchoff@earthlink.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: RM vs. =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E2rn?= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 19 Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:45:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.59.52.240 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 960093957 216.59.52.240 (Sat, 03 Jun 2000 21:45:57 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 21:45:57 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!ldn-newsfeed.speedport.net!newsfeed.speedport.net!newspeer1.nac.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com|news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:7940 Some friends & I have been playing RM2 for about ten years now, but we've begun debating recently about switching to another system (I really like the detail of RM2). The two systems in the running are RMSS (we've been following the latest thread) & Hârn. Unfortunately, none of us knws anyone that has ever played Hârn, which is the reason for this post. For those of you that have played Hârn, what's it like & did/do you like it? And for those of you that have played both, what are the pros & cons of each & which did/do you prefer? Thanks. -- [mike] :. "Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream." - Mark Twain ###### From: b.donnelly@nospamhome.com (Brian Donnelly) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: RM vs. =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E2rn?= Message-ID: <3939edb1.41237169@news> References: <3939DF03.D651A194@earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Lines: 54 Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 05:58:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.115.56.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.bc.home.com 960098333 24.115.56.6 (Sat, 03 Jun 2000 22:58:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 03 Jun 2000 22:58:53 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.bc.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:7965 I have played both and like both systems although I prefer RMSS just because I like levels and XP and the satisfaction of "making a level". The aspects of HARN that are better than RMSS in my opinion are: Aiming in combat Armour layers and being able to have different armour cover differnt parts of the body Simple initiative system The simplicity for opening a new skill Better system for moden or future genres Some simpler mechanics for things like LOAD and fatigue No "hit points" although I have mixed feelings aobut this one The aspects of RMSS that are better than HARN IMO are: Level system Skill Category progression The ability to assign a diffuculty to a task and have the tables tell you success %'s Magic is more fully developed, more spells to choose from, both low and high power Martial Arts / unarmed combat are way better in RMSS The cool Critical tables...although would be much better if tailored to an aiming system (I'm working on my own version of this!) Best for Medieval genres Both system are good though. Cheers, Brian On Sun, 04 Jun 2000 04:45:57 GMT, Michael Benchoff wrote: >Some friends & I have been playing RM2 for about ten years now, but >we've begun debating recently about switching to another system (I >really like the detail of RM2). The two systems in the running are RMSS >(we've been following the latest thread) & Hârn. Unfortunately, none of >us knws anyone that has ever played Hârn, which is the reason for this >post. For those of you that have played Hârn, what's it like & did/do >you like it? And for those of you that have played both, what are the >pros & cons of each & which did/do you prefer? Thanks. > >-- > >[mike] >:. > >"Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things you didn't > do than by the ones you did. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the > safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream." > > - Mark Twain To reply via email, remove nospam in my email address. ###### From: Rachel Kronick Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: RM vs. =?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E2rn?= Date: Mon, 05 Jun 2000 02:59:13 +0800 Organization: DCI HiNet Lines: 90 Message-ID: <393AA701.7A36868C@em-essthirty-five.hinet.net> References: <3939DF03.D651A194@earthlink.net> <3939edb1.41237169@news> NNTP-Posting-Host: h175.s20.ts30.hinet.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en,zh-TW,ja Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!spring.edu.tw!ctu-gate!news.nctu.edu.tw!netnews.hinet.net!news Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:7966 Hi all! I just thought I'd say a bit about this, as I've played RoleMaster (in its earlier xxxx Law incarnation) a bit and still play HarnMaster. HarnMaster is by far my favorite, and I'm definitely biased towards it, so take the following with a grain of salt. Rolemaster seems to be aimed at high-power campaigns, in my experience. The mechanics are much simpler in general (OB - DB + die roll), but this seems aimed at great heroism rather than nitty-gritty. HarnMaster does not lend itself well to high-power anything. Magic is much more difficult to use than in RM, and the general expectation of the rules is that the characters will not have much in the way of magic themselves. You could use HM for high-power stuff, but it would be difficult and the system might break. However, HarnMaster does what it does amazingly well, of course in my opinion. The mechanics are not as simple as RM's, but there isn't as much adding and subtracting. More steps per combat swing, but less calculation and mathematical complexity, in other words. As Brian already noted, HarnMaster has things like layered armor with different penetration values for different types of damage. Some other things particular to HarnMaster are: -- a character generation system where characters' parents' occupations and classes are an integral part of the generation process -- magic with a very hand-crafted feel (which, as Brian noted, means fewer ready-to-use spells, but the magic never feels generic) -- religion which does not feel like a mere shadow imitation of magic; the system is entirely different from that of the magic system In my opinion -- and here's where I differ from Brian -- I think HarnMaster is better-suited to a nitty-gritty realistic medieval campaign. RoleMaster is much better-suited to high-power or not strictly simulationist campaigns. I guess a way to sum it up would be to look at the supplements the two games have had: RM seems to me to have had a lot of supplements which add magic items and spells, while HarnMaster has had a lot of supplements which add, for example, rules for players who want their characters to be able to run a manor (and that means stuff like taxes, sick pigs, harvesting of grain, etc.). Naturally, the ultimate choice is up to you. It depends, I think, on what kind of campaign you want. -- Rachel Kronick P.S. I should also note that I'm in the process of adapting the HM rules to science fiction rules. I think they work quite well, myself. :) Brian Donnelly wrote: > > I have played both and like both systems although I prefer RMSS just > because I like levels and XP and the satisfaction of "making a level". > > The aspects of HARN that are better than RMSS in my opinion are: > Aiming in combat > Armour layers and being able to have different armour cover differnt > parts of the body > Simple initiative system > The simplicity for opening a new skill > Better system for moden or future genres > Some simpler mechanics for things like LOAD and fatigue > No "hit points" although I have mixed feelings aobut this one > > The aspects of RMSS that are better than HARN IMO are: > Level system > Skill Category progression > The ability to assign a diffuculty to a task and have the tables tell > you success %'s > Magic is more fully developed, more spells to choose from, both low > and high power > Martial Arts / unarmed combat are way better in RMSS > The cool Critical tables...although would be much better if tailored > to an aiming system (I'm working on my own version of this!) > Best for Medieval genres > > Both system are good though. > > Cheers, > Brian > > ###### From: "Klaus Ĉ. Mogensen" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <3939DF03.D651A194@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: RM vs. Hârn Lines: 55 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 4 Jun 2000 22:55:13 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.47.128.59 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 960152483 195.47.128.59 (Sun, 04 Jun 2000 23:01:23 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 04 Jun 2000 23:01:23 MET DST Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:7996 "Michael Benchoff" wrote: > > Some friends & I have been playing RM2 for about ten years now, but > we've begun debating recently about switching to another system (I > really like the detail of RM2). The two systems in the running are RMSS > (we've been following the latest thread) & Hârn. Unfortunately, none of > us knws anyone that has ever played Hârn, which is the reason for this > post. For those of you that have played Hârn, what's it like & did/do > you like it? And for those of you that have played both, what are the > pros & cons of each & which did/do you prefer? Thanks. HârnMaster is simpler than RMSS, especially 2nd edition HM (which i prefer, though not everybody do). HM mechanics are in some aspects similar to RuneQuest, but the combat system is much more developed. The rules are linked to the setting in a way that makes the characters come alive with far less work than in RM -- the character generation system can e.g. provide details about birthplace and family relations, and the astrological sign of a character influences skill proficiences. RMSS is a bit too detailed for my taste, what with the several hundred skills. HM only has about 50 skills, though there is an option for specializing at higher skill levels. The damage effects aren't quite as varied as for RM, but still more varied than most games. The magic system has a rather low number of standard spells, but encourages characters to develop their own spells (and provides a decent system for doing so). Mages are somewhat more specialized than in RM, but can be decent warriors, too (mages are about on a par with RM's semi-spellusers, though they can be quite effective within their specialty). Where RM has different levels of the same spell, HM spells have effects that vary with the skill of the caster, so a single HM spell is the equivalent of 3-5 RM spells. One major reason for choosing HM over RM is the setting of Hârn, which is very detailed and offers lots of possible campaign plots. It is possible to use Hârn with other game systems, though, the setting isn't tied to the rules nearly as much as the other way around. -- Klaus Ĉ. Mogensen http://hjem.get2net.dk/Klaudius Exaggeration facilitates comprehension Understatement facilitates credibility