From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: FUDGE skill question Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 16:21:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 954606083 168.191.184.110 (Sat, 01 Apr 2000 08:21:23 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 08:21:23 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2284 I am now toying around with baking a set of FUDGE mechanics. The biggest question I've come across so far relates to skill levels. The rules are fairly vague in how many free skill levels should be given out. They say 15 levels for Extremely Broad Skill Groups, 30 for Moderately Broad, and 40-60 for Specific Skills. Even with broad or moderately broad skills, I could still see having a large number of them. Similarly, even using Specific Skills, I've developed characters that didn't have a lot of skills. It seems like you should have some sort of rule-of-thumb as to how many free levels to use...similar to attributes (about 1/2 as many as the number of attributes). For those of you who have designed various systems, what have you found to work well? I was considering using the Skill Categories present in Rolemaster for a skill list. That would seem to count as Moderately Broad, but there are still a lot of them. Opinions? Thanks, Tom Bagwell ###### Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Organization: Society for the Retention of Apostrophes in Names X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: sos@katie.vnet.net (Steffan O'Sullivan) Lines: 22 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 16:57:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.82.1.7 X-Trace: ralph.vnet.net 954608220 166.82.1.7 (Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:57:00 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 11:57:00 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!diablo.theplanet.net!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!ams.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!ralph.vnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2322 If you must use an objective character creation system (something I'd actually steer you away from if I could), I'd try Five-Point Fudge first, as an easy exercise to see if 35 levels is in the right ballpark for you. Make a few Five-point characters, see how they feel. Assuming you don't take any narrowly-focused skill groups or do too much trading, you should have 35 levels in a Five-point character. (If you take narrowly-focused skill groups, you'll have fewer levels; if you trade Good or better skills down for two lesser skills, you'll have more levels.) If this feels too high or too low, you can then use that as a basis for assigning free levels if you use the other objective character creation system in the book. (Or, if you decide you like Five-point, you can use the "Campaign Power Levels" section to adjust the character levels.) You can find Five-point Fudge at http://www.io.com/~sos/rpg/fudfive.html -- -Steffan O'Sullivan | sos@vnet.net | http://www.io.com/~sos Plymouth, NH, USA | Celebrating 25 years without a television! ###### Message-ID: <38E62AFF.97C43F73@lig.bellsouth.net> From: Mitch Williams X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 33 Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 10:59:43 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.78.132.116 X-Trace: news1.mia 954608439 216.78.132.116 (Sat, 01 Apr 2000 12:00:39 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 12:00:39 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.atl!news1.mia.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2347 One thing I did was to look at characters from an existing game that was close to the idea that I wanted to develop. I converted the existing characters to FUDGE and counted the number of skill levels that were needed to create the character. After looking at a few characters and averaging the number of skill levels I had a good starting number. Mitch Thomas Bagwell wrote: > I am now toying around with baking a set of FUDGE mechanics. The biggest > question I've come across so far relates to skill levels. > > The rules are fairly vague in how many free skill levels should be given > out. They say 15 levels for Extremely Broad Skill Groups, 30 for Moderately > Broad, and 40-60 for Specific Skills. > > Even with broad or moderately broad skills, I could still see having a large > number of them. Similarly, even using Specific Skills, I've developed > characters that didn't have a lot of skills. It seems like you should have > some sort of rule-of-thumb as to how many free levels to use...similar to > attributes (about 1/2 as many as the number of attributes). > > For those of you who have designed various systems, what have you found to > work well? I was considering using the Skill Categories present in > Rolemaster for a skill list. That would seem to count as Moderately Broad, > but there are still a lot of them. > > Opinions? > > Thanks, > Tom Bagwell ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 03:18:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.110 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 954645496 168.191.184.110 (Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:18:16 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 01 Apr 2000 19:18:16 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2292 "Steffan O'Sullivan" wrote in message news:wTpF4.212$Pt5.8437@ralph.vnet.net... > If you must use an objective character creation system (something I'd > actually steer you away from if I could), I'd try Five-Point Fudge > first, as an easy exercise to see if 35 levels is in the right ballpark > for you. Make a few Five-point characters, see how they feel. > Assuming you don't take any narrowly-focused skill groups or do too > much trading, you should have 35 levels in a Five-point character. (If > you take narrowly-focused skill groups, you'll have fewer levels; if > you trade Good or better skills down for two lesser skills, you'll have > more levels.) > > If this feels too high or too low, you can then use that as a basis for > assigning free levels if you use the other objective character creation > system in the book. (Or, if you decide you like Five-point, you can > use the "Campaign Power Levels" section to adjust the character > levels.) I have a copy of 5-Point Fudge, and I have looked over it. If I was starting a campaign from scratch, I would probably use it. However, I'm possibly going to convert over an existing campaign, so I want to keep the same skills...which are not the same ones as in 5PF. Similar problem with attributes. Doesn't 5PF limit the flexibility of the FUDGE system? It seems to encourage the use of the set of skills and attributes that come with it, as opposed to selecting your own. For attributes in FUDGE, you recommend a number of free levels equal to half the number of attributes. Do you have a similar rule of thumb for skills? Regardless of how specific they are, it seems like you would want to consider how many there are to assign a number of free levels. The general feel I get from looking over systems and characters people have put up on the net, is to limit starting characters to 1 Superb and 2 Great skills. For a fairly epic and cinematic campaign is this about right? Tom Bagwell ###### Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Organization: Society for the Retention of Apostrophes in Names X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test72 (19 April 1999) From: sos@katie.vnet.net (Steffan O'Sullivan) Lines: 27 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 13:48:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.82.1.7 X-Trace: ralph.vnet.net 954683310 166.82.1.7 (Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:48:30 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:48:30 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!ralph.vnet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2313 Thomas Bagwell wrote: > >Doesn't 5PF limit the flexibility of the FUDGE system? Yes. The introduction hopefully makes it clear that it's not intended as THE way to make characters, just an easy way, especially for those just trying Fudge for the first time. >For attributes in FUDGE, you recommend a number of free levels equal to half >the number of attributes. Do you have a similar rule of thumb for skills? No. It's pretty much trail and error, because tastes vary so widely. Look over the sample characters and you'll see I've tried to give lots of different ways to do it. >The general feel I get from looking over systems and characters people have >put up on the net, is to limit starting characters to 1 Superb and 2 Great >skills. For a fairly epic and cinematic campaign is this about right? That's close to my tastes, yes. At least one fudge-l member thinks that's *way* too high, though - 1 Great and 2 Goods are a better choice from that perspective. And there's probably someone who thinks it's too stingy. Tastes vary considerably. -- -Steffan O'Sullivan | sos@vnet.net | http://www.io.com/~sos Plymouth, NH, USA | Celebrating 25 years without a television! ###### Message-ID: <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> From: Ann Dupuis Reply-To: ghostgames@fudgerpg.com Organization: Grey Ghost Press, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 65 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 13:51:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.147.32.236 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 954683483 24.147.32.236 (Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:51:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:51:23 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.202!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2269 Thomas Bagwell wrote: > I have a copy of 5-Point Fudge, and I have looked over it. If I was > starting a campaign from scratch, I would probably use it. However, I'm > possibly going to convert over an existing campaign, so I want to keep the > same skills...which are not the same ones as in 5PF. Similar problem with > attributes. I think what Steffan was suggesting was that you write up a couple of sample characters using 5 Point Fudge just to get a feel of how powerful 35 free levels for skills makes the characters. The skills used in this excercise don't need to correspond to the skill set you'll actually be using. If the resulting characters don't look as powerful or skillful as you'd expect beginning player characters to be in your campaign, assign more free levels. If they look like "veterans" to you and you want beginning characters to be just getting their feet wet in the real world, you'll know that 35 free levels are too many. On the other hand, if you're converting an entire campaign, you're probably converting PCs, too. In that case, I'd let the players use the Subjective Character Creation system in converting their PCs. This lets them simply describe their character as they've been playing him/her in Fudge terms. There are 3 pieces of advice I have if you take the Subjective System route: 1) Remember that "Great" is just that -- Great! And "Superb" represents the 98th to 99.9th percentile (beyond that, you get into Legendary). Try not to let yourself or your players fall into the same trap I was in for the first several years I played Fudge -- that every character needed to have at least 1 Superb, whether that was an attribute or a skill. 2) Be involved. Translating characters (or creating them from scratch) should be a cooperative effort between the players and the GM. Don't be afraid to point out things the characters have already accomplished (or failed at!) in previous adventures to help determine what skills they should have, and at what levels. 3) Read section 6.1: GM Tips and Conversions. It's a pretty good guideline for converting characters. If you're using the 1995 version of the rules (the ones most commonly found on the 'net), please also check out Steffan's "Recent Thoughts on Fudge" (http://www.io.com/~sos/rpg/fudlatest.html), especially the Translating To/From Other RPGs, as it contains an updated trait translation chart suggested by Mike Harvey. Hmmm, the above advice probably applies just as much to the Objective System.... > The general feel I get from looking over systems and characters people have > put up on the net, is to limit starting characters to 1 Superb and 2 Great > skills. For a fairly epic and cinematic campaign is this about right? Yes, if the "beginning" PCs are meant to be heroic veterans. The real question is, "does it feel about right to *you*?" :-) -- Best regards, Ann Dupuis (ghostgames@fudgerpg.com) Grey Ghost Press, Inc. (http://www.fudgerpg.com) "Take that, you blasted game!" - Fourth most common use of the Computer Control Cybernetic Enhancement. (From the "Gatecrasher" roleplaying game; http://www.fudgerpg.com/gtcrasher) ###### From: danbuter@aol.comnojunk (Danbuter) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 02 Apr 2000 14:56:06 GMT References: <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000402105606.20211.00000601@ng-fz1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2333 >1) Remember that "Great" is just that -- Great! And "Superb" represents >the 98th to 99.9th percentile (beyond that, you get into Legendary). Try >not to let yourself or your players fall into the same trap I was in for >the first several years I played Fudge -- that every character needed to >have at least 1 Superb, whether that was an attribute or a skill. > I give players a 25% chance of having a Superb skill, otherwise it's Great. DAn..... "True heroics must be carefully planned - and strenuously avoided" Steven Brust in Jhereg ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 15:05:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 954687926 168.191.184.88 (Sun, 02 Apr 2000 08:05:26 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 08:05:26 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2305 Thanks to everyone who took the time to answer my questions. I think I'll follow the common-sense advice and see how many levels I should give out based on how many it takes for the FUDGE versions to look like the actual beginning characters in the originating system. Then, I need to look over my campaign records to determine how many points I need to give out to bring them up to current. Now I'm curious as to what will be in the expanded version... Tom Bagwell ###### From: kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:10:44 GMT Organization: the Satellite of Love Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu X-Trace: kestrel.csrv.uidaho.edu 955005044 7599 129.101.191.123 (6 Apr 2000 07:10:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@uidaho.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2000 07:10:44 GMT Keywords: Hexapodia as the key insight X-X: http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/documents/x-headers.html User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (FreeBSD) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.nero.net!news.uidaho.edu!kamikaze Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2951 Sun, 02 Apr 2000 13:51:23 GMT in <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com>, Ann Dupuis spake: >1) Remember that "Great" is just that -- Great! And "Superb" represents >the 98th to 99.9th percentile (beyond that, you get into Legendary). Try >not to let yourself or your players fall into the same trap I was in for >the first several years I played Fudge -- that every character needed to >have at least 1 Superb, whether that was an attribute or a skill. One thing that can work in the objective system, if your players like, or at least don't mind, detailed point systems, is to not give out free levels. Instead, set the default levels, and give out a number of experience points to use with the standard experience costs. This worked well in Rogue. The 1:1 free levels greatly overencourage high stat and skill levels. >The real question is, "does it feel about right to *you*?" :-) That's pretty much the subtitle of FUDGE. -- Mark Hughes Disclaimer: I do not have an orbital mind control laser; you are free to post your own opinion, but be prepared to back it up, because I *will* call you on it if I think it's bullshit. That's how the Internet, and life, works. ###### Message-ID: <38EC7D0A.3D6D5980@fudgerpg.com> From: Ann Dupuis Reply-To: ghostgames@fudgerpg.com Organization: Grey Ghost Press, Inc. X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 55 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:59:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.147.32.236 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: typhoon.ne.mediaone.net 955022381 24.147.32.236 (Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:59:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:59:41 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.8.202!typhoon.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2963 Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes wrote: > One thing that can work in the objective system, if your players like, > or at least don't mind, detailed point systems, is to not give out free > levels. Instead, set the default levels, and give out a number of > experience points to use with the standard experience costs. This > worked well in Rogue. > > The 1:1 free levels greatly overencourage high stat and skill levels. I used the Objective System almost exclusively for the first 2-3 years I played/wrote for/published Fudge. Gradually, I started noticing that I was using the Subjective System more and more, both in character creation and in action resolution. (Note: I never had the time to sustain an ongoing Fudge campaign -- all these characters I was creating and adventures I was running were for convention games and demos, and I often created the entire party from scratch. That's a lot of character design. :-) When Steffan first posted 5 Point Fudge, which is an alternative character creation system that merges some of the aspects of the Objective and Subjective systems, I frankly didn't "get" the point -- why not simply use the Objective System with pre-defined templates instead of free levels? But that was before I noticed I had switched to entirely Subjective character creation in those hasty moments before a scheduled demo when I suddenly realized I'd forgotten to create the characters. Now that I've had lots of time to work with and think about 5 Point Fudge (in preparing the Expanded Edition of Fudge to go to press), and endless email conversations with Steffan where I told him I just "didn't get it," would he please explain, I now "get it." And part of the problem with the Objective System that 5 Point Fudge fixes (at least partially) is that problem Mark mentioned -- that the 1 point per level rule in the Objective System as written in 1995 encourages high skill levels. 5 Point Fudge's skill packages help swing it closer to the "raising skills with Experience Points" costs instead, which is really where I now believe objective system skill costs should be. It took a lot of arguments with Steffan for me to come to that conclusion, though -- sorry, Steffan! :-) (but I still think the narrow focus points as they're currently set are too restrictive. ;-) -- Best regards, Ann Dupuis (ghostgames@fudgerpg.com) Grey Ghost Press, Inc. (http://www.fudgerpg.com) "Take that, you blasted game!" - Fourth most common use of the Computer Control Cybernetic Enhancement. (From the "Gatecrasher" roleplaying game; http://www.fudgerpg.com/gtcrasher) ###### From: bjm10@cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 11:35:28 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 19 Sender: verified_for_usenet@cornell.edu (bjm10 on potato.cit.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> <38EC7D0A.3D6D5980@fudgerpg.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.cit.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 955035338 18328 132.236.156.18 (6 Apr 2000 15:35:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2000 15:35:38 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3050 In article <38EC7D0A.3D6D5980@fudgerpg.com>, ghostgames@fudgerpg.com wrote: > instead of free levels? But that was before I noticed I had switched to > entirely Subjective character creation in those hasty moments before a > scheduled demo when I suddenly realized I'd forgotten to create the I've been doing that since I was running 1st edition AD&D. Mind you, that's only for throwaway characters. If they hang around, I pull out the rules and do them in detail. Fine strokes are for what is seen closely. Broad strokes will do for what is only seen in passing. The problem that a lot of people have is that they don't seem to apply this rule (or they deny they do so). -- "Before we judge the lobotomist of old too severely, we should go to the nearest street grate and see how we are dealing with our mental health crisis today." ###### From: larris@usa.net (Larris Magpie) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Organization: None. I work alone. Reply-To: larris@usa.net Message-ID: <38f1242d.286656488@90.0.0.1> References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 23:59:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.67.142.14 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@online.no X-Trace: news1.online.no 955066053 130.67.142.14 (Fri, 07 Apr 2000 02:07:33 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 02:07:33 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.online.no!newsfeed.online.no!news1.online.no!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3153 kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote: > One thing that can work in the objective system, if your players like, >or at least don't mind, detailed point systems, is to not give out free >levels. Instead, set the default levels, and give out a number of >experience points to use with the standard experience costs. This >worked well in Rogue. *koff* Which was that? Not anything like NetHack, I presume? (Yeah, I know, that was a cheap quip - but I'd seriously like to know what kind of a game you're referring to.) -- Larris "If darkness is merely the absence of light, Like evil, they say, is the absence of love; Why is it, then, that the gloom of the night Feels more tangible and opaque than rays from above?" ###### From: kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: FUDGE skill question Date: 7 Apr 2000 15:16:58 GMT Organization: the Satellite of Love Lines: 38 Message-ID: References: <7mpF4.11382$64.401794@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <38E75131.BAB95C38@fudgerpg.com> <38f1242d.286656488@90.0.0.1> NNTP-Posting-Host: kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu Keywords: Hexapodia as the key insight X-X: http://kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu/~kamikaze/documents/x-headers.html User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (FreeBSD) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ctu-gate!news.nctu.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!attbt1!ip.att.net!news.fsr.net!kamikaze Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3078 Thu, 06 Apr 2000 23:59:48 GMT in <38f1242d.286656488@90.0.0.1>, Larris Magpie spake: >kamikaze@kuoi.asui.uidaho.edu (Mark 'Kamikaze' Hughes) wrote: >> One thing that can work in the objective system, if your players like, >>or at least don't mind, detailed point systems, is to not give out free >>levels. Instead, set the default levels, and give out a number of >>experience points to use with the standard experience costs. This >>worked well in Rogue. >*koff* >Which was that? >Not anything like NetHack, I presume? >(Yeah, I know, that was a cheap quip - but I'd seriously like to know what >kind of a game you're referring to.) It was swords-and-sorcery using FUDGE as the system, and it was indeed based on equal parts of the computer game Rogue (the critters and a few references in the setting) and the Better Games' "Rogue Swords of the Empire" game published in Space Gamer/Fantasy Gamer. Oh, and I stole the magic system out of Ultima V. Then there's ADOM , which uses FUDGE levels in the skill system. Biskup has part of a tabletop RPG based on it at , but it isn't being actively developed AFAIK. Now I'm going in the opposite direction - I designed my tabletop RPG Phobos to serve as the game system under the computer game I'm also developing. (I was originally going to use NUELOW, which I think would be a superb computer game, but some mechanics made more sense to do in my own system, which I've been tinkering with and designing and redesigning for the last 10 years or so). -- Mark Hughes Disclaimer: I do not have an orbital mind control laser; you are free to post your own opinion, but be prepared to back it up, because I *will* call you on it if I think it's bullshit. That's how the Internet, and life, works.