From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:27:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.84 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 954386876 168.191.184.84 (Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:27:56 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2000 19:27:56 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1695 Our group is in the process of piecing together a set of mechanics. There are aspects of any given system that don't seem to work quite right...or that generate more than their share of irritations. The basic mechanics are not a real problem...there are a number of systems out there with satisfactory skill and task resolution mechanics. What's more difficult is a good, flexible magic system that doesn't have strong ties to the rest of the system, or that can be melded without too much problem. We're looking at a couple already...CORPS and Oroborus (or Ysgarth if it is more detailed and I can find a current version...(Dave?)), and I'll probably at least skim through Aria for a few ideas. We've no real interest in GURPS or Hero (Fuzion)...they're tied a bit too well to the rest of the mechanics, which don't resemble what we'll be using. Any other ideas or recommendations? Thanks, Tom Bagwell ###### From: l_silburn@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 09:27:12 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <8bv6l2$9mh$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.172.206.50 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Mar 30 09:27:12 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.04 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 ANI_SHEN_PRX1 (10.2.140.241 - eScrUpstream ), 1.0 ANIX_SHEN_CUS1, 1.0 x41.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 62.172.206.50 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDl_silburn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!triton.skycache.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1679 In article <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: probably > at least skim through Aria for a few ideas. We've no real interest in Aria requires a lot of work, but if you get familiar with it you can do several different styles of magic quite well (to the point of tying them to different cosmological principles). GURPS > or Hero (Fuzion)...they're tied a bit too well to the rest of the mechanics, > which don't resemble what we'll be using. > > Any other ideas or recommendations? > Ars Magica. Whilst there are an awful lot of system specific accretions that have come out in published material over the years, at heart its a very simple verb/noun system that you can scale up or down in power with a fair degree of ease. The published spell lists and guidelines aren't perfect, largely because the guidelines came out a long time after a lot of the spells - so there's been a deal of retrofitting and there are a couple of niggly bits and bobs that aren't handled especially well (IMO). But they are a good starting point for a low/mid-power fantasy setting. Luke Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### X-Originating-Host: 146.126.61.241 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 10 From: celtict Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Message-ID: <091b569a.5e8535e9@usw-ex0104-032.remarq.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Bytes: 460 X-Wren-Trace: eCMGLi82cTtwdDIpIXY7CiM/PyM2K2IsKCo7M2Q0NW5sdDd0YzJke2F0dmh/N2E= Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:59:35 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.32 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 954421177 10.0.2.32 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:59:37 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 04:59:37 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1801 If you can get hold of A Magical Medley from Grey Ghost Games, it has several different systems that you should be able to drop in. Also, you can get Carl Cravens' Gramarye directly off the web. None, of these systems are 'tied' to a particular set of rules. Just a few suggestions... Anthony R. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ###### Reply-To: "Michael T. Richter" From: "Michael T. Richter" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 6 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2014.211 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 15:58:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.101.128.170 X-Trace: 198.235.216.4 954431924 204.101.128.170 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:58:44 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 10:58:44 EDT Organization: Bell Solutions Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news1.bellglobal.com!198.235.216.4.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1838 Thomas Bagwell wrote in message news:0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net... > Any other ideas or recommendations? FUDGE's "Magical Medley" is a good bet. Lots of nifty ideas. ###### X-Originating-Host: 199.43.48.22 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 11 From: tnbagwell Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Message-ID: <271fa288.278097c5@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Bytes: 444 X-Wren-Trace: eI2ogIGY35Xe2ZeHicqbgZOSvY2Jm9mThIiMhcqXkdnC2pTVzZnLzdXUx9rR Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:26:36 -0800 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.14 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon2 954454908 10.0.2.14 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:21:48 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 14:21:48 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon2.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2117 The Gramarye system for FUDGE does look promising. Drats...that has me thinking about using FUDGE again. It's not an idea that has been well received by my group in the past (getting them to try new systems is like pulling teeth). It's top in the running, so far, though. Tom B. * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ###### From: graf@arduin-delos.com-nospam Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Organization: none Message-ID: <3905fea7.30138056@news.sonic.net> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.451 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 31 Mar 2000 01:35:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.204.150.104 X-Complaints-To: abuse@sonic.net X-Trace: typhoon.sonic.net 954466533 209.204.150.104 (Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:35:33 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Mar 2000 17:35:33 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!triton.skycache.com!typhoon.sonic.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1966 On Thu, 30 Mar 2000 03:27:56 GMT, "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: >Our group is in the process of piecing together a set of mechanics. There >are aspects of any given system that don't seem to work quite right...or >that generate more than their share of irritations. > >The basic mechanics are not a real problem...there are a number of systems >out there with satisfactory skill and task resolution mechanics. What's >more difficult is a good, flexible magic system that doesn't have strong >ties to the rest of the system, or that can be melded without too much >problem. You might take a look at the sections on the Four Known Magic Systems (Memorization, Personal Mana, Percent and Fumble, Local Mana) in the Dragon Tree Spell Book. It's kind of a unified field theory, and has worksheets for making up your own magic system, starting with the results you want and then using bits from different philosophies. It's not tied to much of anything. :-) Graf ----------------------------------------------------- Graf D.V.B.G.S. Posvalsky of Delos -- "Arduin Lives!" Grimoires IV-VIII at http://www.arduin-delos.com (Unless noted, all spells I mention are from Dragon Tree Spell Book.) ###### From: SD Anderson <102250.1425@CompuServe.COM> Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: 1 Apr 2000 03:05:06 GMT Organization: Me, Myself & I Lines: 2 Message-ID: <8c3p12$fd0$2@ssauraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com> References: <271fa288.278097c5@usw-ex0102-014.remarq.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mhaka.production.compuserve.com X-Trace: ssauraaa-i-1.production.compuserve.com 954558306 15776 149.174.242.213 (1 Apr 2000 03:05:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@compuserve.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Apr 2000 03:05:06 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!triton.skycache.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1981 Duel's magic system claims it can do any magical effect, assuming you can find a copy of the game these days. ###### From: Kodeci Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 16:33:03 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 46 Message-ID: <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.254.60.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed Apr 05 16:33:03 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-22 i686) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 www-cache.irisa.fr:3128 (Squid/2.2.STABLE3), 1.0 x25.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.254.61.53, 131.254.60.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDkodeci Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newspeer.ebone.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2913 In article <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > Our group is in the process of piecing together a set of mechanics. There > are aspects of any given system that don't seem to work quite right...or > that generate more than their share of irritations. > > The basic mechanics are not a real problem...there are a number of systems > out there with satisfactory skill and task resolution mechanics. What's > more difficult is a good, flexible magic system that doesn't have strong > ties to the rest of the system, or that can be melded without too much > problem. > > Any other ideas or recommendations? 'Flexible' I can understand for a magic system, but 'good' was a pointless adjective in my opinion. Tastes vary a lot on that topic!!! What about giving other expectations you have about the magic system? Note, about ties to the rest of the system: The resolution method could be different from the resolution for regular activities (the 'magic is special' feel), and that could even be a feature that provide taste to magic. If magic is secret, unknown of most characters, being ununderstood by most players is a feature for me. Therefore, I don't think ties on the resolution method can be a problem. The Evaluation method (balancing characters) will always be a problem with any magic system. Even in a (unchanged) existing game system, just vary the quantity of magic PC have and you could need to fix the balancing evaluation. Therefore, I feel ties to the Evaluation method is unavoidable. Put the two together, you'll find that ties to the rest of the system are not really a serious factor to consider. -- http://members.xoom.com/kodeci/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 72 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 03:17:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.153.250 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 954991074 168.191.153.250 (Wed, 05 Apr 2000 20:17:54 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 20:17:54 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2981 "Kodeci" wrote in message news:8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, > "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > > Our group is in the process of piecing together a set of mechanics. > There > > are aspects of any given system that don't seem to work quite > right...or > > that generate more than their share of irritations. > > > > The basic mechanics are not a real problem...there are a number of > systems > > out there with satisfactory skill and task resolution mechanics. > What's > > more difficult is a good, flexible magic system that doesn't have > strong > > ties to the rest of the system, or that can be melded without too much > > problem. > > > > Any other ideas or recommendations? > > 'Flexible' I can understand for a magic system, but 'good' was a > pointless adjective in my opinion. Tastes vary a lot on that topic!!! 'good' was more meant to describe the aspects of flexible (as in 'very flexible' and 'with well-executed flexibility). Of course, I'm willing to listen to anyone's take on what they consider a good system. The varying tastes were what I was looking for. > What about giving other expectations you have about the magic system? I wasn't really looking for other expectations. I didn't think there would be so many of them that I needed to narrow the field any more. From the responses, I was correct. The most recommended was 'Gramarye' for Fudge. > Note, about ties to the rest of the system: > The resolution method could be different from the resolution for > regular activities (the 'magic is special' feel), and that could even be > a feature that provide taste to magic. If magic is secret, unknown of > most characters, being ununderstood by most players is a feature for me. > Therefore, I don't think ties on the resolution method can be a problem. > The Evaluation method (balancing characters) will always be a problem > with any magic system. Even in a (unchanged) existing game system, just > vary the quantity of magic PC have and you could need to fix the > balancing evaluation. Therefore, I feel ties to the Evaluation method is > unavoidable. > Put the two together, you'll find that ties to the rest of the system > are not really a serious factor to consider. I came to that realization while trying to figure out how to use 'Gramarye' with my existing system. The initial difficulty seemed to be in going from one required magic skill in the existing system, to the handful required for 'Gramarye' (magic skill, college(s), realm(s)). For existing characters, it seemed they would have to go from one magic skill to about five or more. Then, I realized I didn't have to make the colleges and realms separate skills...I could stay with the single magic skill, and just use the colleges and realms as part of the spell creation process. That kept the skill balance with the original system, and the Fudge mechanics could stand alone within the spell system. Now...I'm trying to decide whether or not to convert the whole system to Fudge just for the hell of it... But...long and short of it is that you're absolutely right. Do you have any recommendations for other magic systems I might consider? Tom B. ###### From: Kodeci Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 16:32:30 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 70 Message-ID: <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.254.60.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Apr 06 16:32:30 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-22 i686) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 www-cache.irisa.fr:3128 (Squid/2.2.STABLE3), 1.0 x39.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.254.61.53, 131.254.60.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDkodeci Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:2971 In article , "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > Of course, I'm willing to > listen to anyone's take on what they consider a good system. The varying > tastes were what I was looking for. I think that the most important think about a magic system is that it has the right taste. Magic mostly resides in taste ... see the excellent articles "The Sense of Wonder" byDon Webb, at http://www.fringeware.com/dwebb/letter142.html This article was really inspiring to me. > > What about giving other expectations you have about the magic system? > > I wasn't really looking for other expectations. I didn't think there would > be so many of them that I needed to narrow the field any more. You mean there are not many magic systems available ...? That might be true ... Surprises me ... > But...long and short of it is that you're absolutely right. Do you have any > recommendations for other magic systems I might consider? I have several ideas, but no good one ;-) Seriously, I will just center things on me ... The two following ideas are not especially good, they are just ideas ... But please comment on them, especially if there is anything you like or you would like ;-) ### Middle Earth taste I am thinking about translating to english my Middle Earth magic system, but it will take some time. In a few words: - magic schools are one per Vala, - each magic school is evaluated by a dedicated skill, - a magic school can be used in any way (classical or creative) when it fits the Vala's attributions - magic's power is not overt, but subtil; it mostly work by influencing things ... ### Alternative Donjons & Dragons 's taste I am currently translating (and rewritting) my Alternative D&D magic system. The (highly-)draft version is on my web page at http://members.xoom.com/kodeci/tmp/index.html (if Xoom let you access it ... access is sometimes really bad; probably better to download the whole site than searching through it ... ). Most spells taste like D&D ones, except they are handled in a much more consistant way, and with different principles (per day limit gone, great flexibility, magic schools, ...). Kodeci -- http://members.xoom.com/kodeci/ Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 77 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 04:21:43 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 955081303 168.191.184.88 (Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:21:43 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:21:43 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net.MISMATCH!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3093 "Kodeci" wrote in message news:8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article , > "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > > Of course, I'm willing to > > listen to anyone's take on what they consider a good system. The > varying > > tastes were what I was looking for. > > I think that the most important think about a magic system is that it > has the right taste. Magic mostly resides in taste ... Ah! So perhaps 'Fudge' is the right choice after all!....:) > see the excellent articles "The Sense of Wonder" byDon Webb, at > http://www.fringeware.com/dwebb/letter142.html > This article was really inspiring to me. I'll check it out. Thanks. > > > What about giving other expectations you have about the magic > system? > > > > I wasn't really looking for other expectations. I didn't think there > would > > be so many of them that I needed to narrow the field any more. > > You mean there are not many magic systems available ...? > > That might be true ... Surprises me ... I didn't expect to see a long list of recommendations. There are many magic systems out there...most of which I rejected for various reasons. > > > But...long and short of it is that you're absolutely right. Do you > have any > > recommendations for other magic systems I might consider? > > I have several ideas, but no good one ;-) Seriously, I will just center > things on me ... The two following ideas are not especially good, they > are just ideas ... But please comment on them, especially if there is > anything you like or you would like ;-) > > > ### Middle Earth taste > > I am thinking about translating to english my Middle Earth magic system, > but it will take some time. In a few words: > - magic schools are one per Vala, > - each magic school is evaluated by a dedicated skill, > - a magic school can be used in any way (classical or creative) when it > fits the Vala's attributions > - magic's power is not overt, but subtil; it mostly work by influencing > things ... Sounds interesting. > ### Alternative Donjons & Dragons 's taste > > I am currently translating (and rewritting) my Alternative D&D magic > system. The (highly-)draft version is on my web page at > http://members.xoom.com/kodeci/tmp/index.html (if Xoom let you access it > ... access is sometimes really bad; probably better to download the > whole site than searching through it ... ). > > Most spells taste like D&D ones, except they are handled in a much more > consistant way, and with different principles (per day limit gone, great > flexibility, magic schools, ...). I prefer more free-form magic systems. One of my current favorites is the Paranormal section of CORPS. Tom B. ###### Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Attributino: Da Katt From: sierra_tigris@yahoo.com Message-ID: <87zor6fnor.fsf@yahoo.com> Lines: 10 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 06:08:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.216.47 X-Trace: news20.bellglobal.com 955087703 216.209.216.47 (Fri, 07 Apr 2000 02:08:23 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 02:08:23 EDT Organization: Sympatico Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news1.bellglobal.com!news20.bellglobal.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3087 "Thomas Bagwell" writes: > I prefer more free-form magic systems. One of my current favorites is the > Paranormal section of CORPS. Others that have the same "feel" are Torg's Aylse magic, MasterBook special effects and Nexxus infinite city. -- Da Katt [Still waiting for something interesting to put in a sig file] ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <87zor6fnor.fsf@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 06:38:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 955089511 168.191.184.88 (Thu, 06 Apr 2000 23:38:31 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 23:38:31 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newsf1.elp.rr.com!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com|news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3090 wrote in message news:87zor6fnor.fsf@yahoo.com... > "Thomas Bagwell" writes: > > > I prefer more free-form magic systems. One of my current favorites is the > > Paranormal section of CORPS. > > Others that have the same "feel" are Torg's Aylse magic, MasterBook special effects and Nexxus infinite city. > Torg's system struck me as being incredibly complex...maybe it was that diagram you had to use. I haven't looked at MasterBook or Nexus, although I've intended to check both of them out at some point. I'll look around for them. Tom B. ###### From: Kodeci Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 11:49:21 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 62 Message-ID: <8ckhvt$ce6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.254.60.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 07 11:49:21 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-22 i686) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 www-cache.irisa.fr:3128 (Squid/2.2.STABLE3), 1.0 x43.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.254.61.53, 131.254.60.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDkodeci Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!feeder.qis.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3092 In article , "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > I prefer more free-form magic systems. I'm sure you're aware that "the more freeform the less system". In other words, freeform and system are opposite. So, the freeform systems are systems that are "light" first, and that use a lot of subjective appreciation. But they still have mechanical part, or they wouldn't be systems. If you can, I would advise you to have no magic 'system' at all (the extreme of freeform), just written recommendations, novels or so .... You'll be saving a lot of time, and a lot of freedom. If that's too freeform for you, I would advise you (it may be what you're currently doing) to look at several systems, to think a lot ... so as to determine exactly "what do you want to be free, and what do you want to be mechanical". This distinction is critical to your success in using a magic system you're satisfied of. Everything that can be free, leave it free! Nothing is best than your imagination! For mechanical things, think about the most appropriate mechanics, in terms of: - mechanical modifiers (mechanical, that is not subjective!) - tactical decisions (player input, not character skill) (beware that things are now considered as objective, so any fuzzy freeform player input need to be converted into a precise mechanical factor) - random part (relative part of random compared to constant factors) - possible outcomes for the mechanical part (beware that, here also, things need to be mechanical; having a mechanic output a subjective outcome is a pity, better have it output an objective/mechanical outcome; usually, most details are needed to keep the feeling, but I would advice to leave them to subjective description if they are not part of the mechanics) - feeling of mechanics (die type, number of dice, granularity of skill/difficulty/outcome ...) I would think answers to the questions above are probably personal enough that you'll have to make up your own mechanic, or at least heavily adapt it. I bet you can find much support in that attempt from people on .advocacy. > One of my current favorites is the > Paranormal section of CORPS. I kind of like it also, but as a magic meta-system instead of a system. For example, all feels are mixed in it, as all magic are available. I believe this system is grossly unbalanced if you would allow everything to your players (or your NPCs). If I would run a game using it, I would very strongly limit it. Note that I think the same of Corps in general: a good realisation of a system, that uses traditionnal (but alas bad IMO) concepts (especially the Points Cost thing makes me smile, see my web page ..) Kodeci http://members.xoom.com/kodeci/index.htm Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8ckhvt$ce6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 56 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 16:00:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 168.191.184.93 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 955209608 168.191.184.93 (Sat, 08 Apr 2000 09:00:08 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 09:00:08 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!cyclone-west.rr.com!news.rr.com|news-west.rr.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3203 "Kodeci" wrote in message news:8ckhvt$ce6$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > In article , > "Thomas Bagwell" wrote: > > I prefer more free-form magic systems. > > I'm sure you're aware that "the more freeform the less system". In other > words, freeform and system are opposite. So, the freeform systems are > systems that are "light" first, and that use a lot of subjective > appreciation. But they still have mechanical part, or they wouldn't be > systems. I like a set of mechanics that are flexible enough to allow the construction of any type of spell, while making sure that the difficulties (casting difficulty, drain, etc.) are appropriate to the power-level. It should also be scalable enough to handle anything from a world where magic is weak and draining to a world where spells can move mountains. I accept that any such system will have to have the GM keep a careful eye on PC created spells, but a lot of that difficulty can be handled by giving careful thought to mages/magic and the setting of the game. > I would think answers to the questions above are probably personal > enough that you'll have to make up your own mechanic, or at least > heavily adapt it. I bet you can find much support in that attempt from > people on .advocacy. Before going to work on trying to design my own, I want to get a decent feel for what is already out there. I have no desire to re-invent the wheel. You did give a number of ideas that are worth keeping in mine, though. > > One of my current favorites is the > > Paranormal section of CORPS. > > I kind of like it also, but as a magic meta-system instead of a system. > For example, all feels are mixed in it, as all magic are available. All feels are mixed, but the GM can define those feels by setting up the frameworks and describing them to the players. My CORPS campaign uses two distinct types of magic, and the players all agree that the 'feel' is totally different between the two, and appropriate for the setting. > I believe this system is grossly unbalanced if you would allow > everything to your players (or your NPCs). If I would run a game using > it, I would very strongly limit it. Note that I think the same of Corps > in general: a good realisation of a system, that uses traditionnal (but > alas bad IMO) concepts (especially the Points Cost thing makes me smile, > see my web page ..) I'll go check it out. It sounds like several of your ideas parallel my own. Tom B. ###### From: "Steve Hemmesch" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8ckhvt$ce6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <8nPH4.1643$_H2.57262@news.swbell.net> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 18:29:09 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.191.144.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@swbell.net X-Trace: news.swbell.net 955236932 208.191.144.151 (Sat, 08 Apr 2000 18:35:32 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 18:35:32 CDT Organization: SBC Internet Services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!howland.erols.net!news.pbi.net.MISMATCH!cyclone.pbi.net!151.164.30.35!cyclone.swbell.net!news.swbell.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3240 > I like a set of mechanics that are flexible enough to allow the construction > of any type of spell, while making sure that the difficulties (casting > difficulty, drain, etc.) are appropriate to the power-level. It should also > be scalable enough to handle anything from a world where magic is weak and > draining to a world where spells can move mountains. If you (or anyone else reading this, for that matter) are interested I am the designer of a small press rpg called Infinite Domains. It has a free-form style magic system that is both flexible and fairly well defined (I classify it somewhere in the dead middle of a freeform and a preset system). I doubt you can find it at the game shops anymore, since I (and my company with it) moved on to the computer game industry some years ago, but I can provide you with notes via email and if you like it a copy of the book via snail mail. Steve Hemmesch oraxin@swbell.net ###### From: Kodeci Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:53:49 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 29 Message-ID: <8csisn$ppt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <8cfpru$5q1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8cie6u$3vp$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8ckhvt$ce6$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8nPH4.1643$_H2.57262@news.swbell.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.254.60.134 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Apr 10 12:53:49 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.6 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.5-22 i686) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 www-cache.irisa.fr:3128 (Squid/2.2.STABLE3), 1.0 x41.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 131.254.61.53, 131.254.60.134 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDkodeci Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!frnkge1-snf1.gtei.net!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3280 In article <8nPH4.1643$_H2.57262@news.swbell.net>, "Steve Hemmesch" wrote: > If you (or anyone else reading this, for that matter) are interested I am > the designer of a small press rpg called Infinite Domains. It has a > free-form style magic system that is both flexible and fairly well defined > (I classify it somewhere in the dead middle of a freeform and a preset > system). I doubt you can find it at the game shops anymore, since I (and my > company with it) moved on to the computer game industry some years ago, but > I can provide you with notes via email and if you like it a copy of the book > via snail mail. I'd like to read the notes, to get an idea what it is about. I'm probably not the only one in that case. Designer's notes would be especially useful for figuring out the design choices that have been made. If you could include me in your distribution list :-) Kodeci Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### X-Originating-Host: 204.60.198.92 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 20 From: WillReich Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Message-ID: <12db5556.d35fa0f5@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Bytes: 680 X-Wren-Trace: ePHU/P3ko+mipuz1+KP18eDq3qOj1ajm/PLxvPvq5fGsp+W+qeGqrqSou62t Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:10:16 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.6 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 955501835 10.0.2.6 (Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:10:35 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 18:10:35 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:3459 If you want a magic system, you might go to http://members.amethyst-alliance.com/GloryRoad and click on the link that says Glory Road Spells and look at a magic system and three web-pages of spell lists. I am uploading some more spell lists after I finish editing them but what is there is pretty extensive. The other parts of the system aren't edited and up yet but there are bits and pieces on the Characters page. There is also a campaign setting and some other stuff. -- Will Yvette shines like STARS * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free! ###### From: albumen2@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Date: Wed, 03 May 2000 15:34:40 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 37 Message-ID: <8epguf$6au$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <12db5556.d35fa0f5@usw-ex0101-006.remarq.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.48.144.252 X-Article-Creation-Date: Wed May 03 15:34:40 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.7 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x37.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 209.48.144.252 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDalbumen2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:5209 Tom Bagwell Wrote: >> Our group is in the process of piecing together a set of mechanics. There are aspects of any given system that don't seem to work quite right...or that generate more than their share of irritations. The basic mechanics are not a real problem...there are a number of systems out there with satisfactory skill and task resolution mechanics. What's more difficult is a good, flexible magic system that doesn't have strong ties to the rest of the system, or that can be melded without too much problem. We're looking at a couple already...CORPS and Oroborus (or Ysgarth if it is more detailed and I can find a current version...(Dave?)), and I'll probably at least skim through Aria for a few ideas. We've no real interest in GURPS or Hero (Fuzion)...they're tied a bit too well to the rest of the mechanics, which don't resemble what we'll be using. Any other ideas or recommendations?<< Tom - I'm working on a compilation of fully developed spells for Oroborus, based on the general magic mechanics. These are for my Witchery campaign and proposed Oroborus-based publication of the future, but I plan to make them generally available for playtesting, and I think there will be a link to them on the Oroborus site. The starting set will have about 50-60 spells to cover all the traditional basics, plus some customized mechanics to go with them. Al Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### X-Originating-Host: 12.2.128.8 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Drop-in magic systems Lines: 18 From: 4th_Doctor Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Message-ID: <1ef2cc55.319de4d0@usw-ex0103-019.remarq.com> References: <0RzE4.5048$9m6.189302@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net> Bytes: 820 X-Wren-Trace: eCEELC00czlycjY7MWcmMTc9NgQoLHI0K2MtLSV1aTNgdS9xfTl6dw== Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 06:46:33 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.19 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon3 957880652 10.0.2.19 (Tue, 09 May 2000 06:57:32 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 09 May 2000 06:57:32 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:5947 The Masterbook system is good and the magic system does stand well on it's own. But, it also is a difficult read. The designers had great mathmatical and statistical models and lousey technical writing skills. My recommendation would be to look for Fantasy Wargaming by Galloway. Currently OOP, but Barnes and Noble and Amazon have several copies in thier OOP inventory. The system allows for designing of your own spells and it is quite flexable. I have even used it in Champions for the magick by a Dr. Strange type character, and in D&D to replace that system. Probably one of the best basic spell systems I have ever seen. Play on. The Doc * Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network * The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!