Message-ID: <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> From: Brett Evill X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: The number of the Beast References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:49:11 +1000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.12.90.167 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 954208142 202.12.90.167 (Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:49:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 11:49:02 EST Organization: OzEmail Pty Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.concentric.net!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1466 Flex Mentallo wrote: > > bjm10@cornell.edu (Bryan J. Maloney) wrote > Remember that the Apostles did not use > >Arabic/Hindu numerals, so if they wrote "666" at all, it would have been > >as "DCLXVI" or using the Greek or Aramaic method (which used letters, not > >distinct numerals) > > Yep. I always found the roman-numeral explanation most likely, since the > number is actually kinda cool in that system (one each of the first six > numerals). They are in order (descending), too. Though if the subtractive method is indeed a mediaeval invention that is the only order that they would be in. > But I think the original text writes it out as six hundred > sixty-six (leaving room for speculation). In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the original Greek, of course. I really felt that Robert Heinlein went a bit far in 'The Number of the Beast' when he supposed that the number was actually six to the sixth to the sixth. By the way, does it seem to anyone else that knowledge of the number of the beast has become much more widespread in the past twenty years? Regards, Brett Evill ###### From: Jerry Stratton Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Organization: Negative Space Distribution: world References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) X-Face: $!..L~)V627k~Fp@ojChOSX"5f@Jv=Wi;2I?!oAQgdUyNO8cFFdEefO#1jn#) v!PG?:'3/TZt/-*.7nNOij7TX9qL0j*mqZ^7qqOov0gG=Uyd9?f4:~,ce9 Message-ID: Lines: 31 Date: Tue, 28 Mar 2000 04:20:45 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.0.130.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com 954217245 24.0.130.131 (Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:20:45 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Mar 2000 20:20:45 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.sdca.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:1376 In article <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au>, Brett Evill wrote: >In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the >original Greek, of course. According to "The Oxford Companion to the Bible", there is a "simple" reason for 666: Six Hundred Sixty-six. This number, mentioned in Revelation 13.18, is not, as is sometimes thought, a conundrum to be solved by readers in order to discover the identity of the beast described in that chapter. The identity of the beast is clear: it is the absolutist state as personified in the Roman Emperor Nero. The emperors claimed divine authority and their power seemed invincible. John wanted his readers to understand that the state and its rulers were neither divine nor invincible. They were human and carried the seed of their own destruction: their number is only 666, and does not reach the completion of seven (see Number Symbolism). The number was arrived at by presenting Nero's Greek name Kaisar Neron in Hebrew letters, which also function as numbers: qsr nrwn; q=60, s=100, r=200, n=50, w=6, so qsr nrwn adds up to 666. (Some western manuscripts read "six hundred sixteen"; the scribes possibly did not understand John's usage of Hebrew numbers, and thought in terms of the Greek kaisar theos, the "god-emperor," which would add up to 616 using the Greek letters as numerals; but it is more likely that they simply dropped the final n: qsr nrw for Kaisar Nero, making 616.) -- David H. Van Daalen I have no idea how reliable this book is, but it is fun to leaf through. Jerry http://www.hoboes.com/jerry/ ###### From: "Thomas Bagwell" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:25:34 -0500 Organization: Smart Lines: 14 Sender: tnbagwell@freewwweb.com@*@ppp-121.tnt-1.aus.smartworld.net Message-ID: <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> <8dvuno$p9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-121.tnt-1.aus.smartworld.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!12.127.16.134!attmtf!att542!ip.att.net!news.smartworld.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:4562 In article <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au>, Brett Evill wrote: > In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the > original Greek, of course. Interestingly enough, in Roman numerals, 666 is written as DCLXVI which are the first 6 placemarkers in descending order (D=500, C=100, L=50, X=10, V=5, I=1). Just an observation... Tom B. ###### From: Lauri Gardner Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:31:39 +0300 Organization: University of Oulu Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> <8dvuno$p9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: paju.oulu.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII X-Trace: ousrvr3.oulu.fi 956651499 27205 130.231.240.20 (25 Apr 2000 08:31:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.oulu.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 25 Apr 2000 08:31:39 GMT X-Sender: lgardner@paju.oulu.fi In-Reply-To: <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeed2.funet.fi!ousrvr3.oulu.fi!paju.oulu.fi!lgardner Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:4607 On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Thomas Bagwell wrote: > In article <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au>, > Brett Evill wrote: > In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the > original Greek, of course. > Score is an old term tha got fazed out around the 1800's, it means twenty. So a 'three score of men' means sixty men. It is just a different version to mark the number (also makes those who can only count fingers and toes up to twenty you just count the digits three times). -- Lauri Gardner ###### Message-ID: <3905AD48.5604@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> From: Brett Evill X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01 (Macintosh; I; 68K) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> <8dvuno$p9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 NNTP-Posting-Host: tynslip3.apana.org.au X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 956673347 202.12.90.167 (Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:35:47 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:35:47 EST Organization: OzEmail Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 00:35:52 +1000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:4604 Lauri Gardner wrote: > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Thomas Bagwell wrote: > > > In article <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au>, > > Brett Evill wrote: > > In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the > > original Greek, of course. > > > Score is an old term tha got fazed out around the 1800's It hasn't been quite phased out even yet. I use it occasionally in speech, and people seem to understand me. For that matter, people understand the first line of Lincoln's address at the consecration of the Gettysburg National Cemetery. Regards, Brett Evill ###### From: carl@gerg.tamu.edu (Carl Perkins) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Date: 26 Apr 2000 00:52 CST Organization: Geochemical and Environmental Research Group - TAMU Lines: 19 Distribution: world Message-ID: <26APR200000521448@gerg.tamu.edu> References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> NNTP-Posting-Host: gergl1.gerg.tamu.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Apr 2000 05:48:50 GMT X-Lunar-Date: 0 days, 18 hrs, 42 mins until the last quarter of the moon (U.T.) News-Software: VAX/VMS VNEWS 1.50AAXP Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!209.113.65.250!korova.insync.net!solomon.io.com!news.tamu.edu!gerg.tamu.edu!carl Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:4647 Lauri Gardner writes... }On Mon, 24 Apr 2000, Thomas Bagwell wrote: }> In article <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au>, }> Brett Evill wrote: }> In my bible "six hundred and three score and six". But it isn't the }> original Greek, of course. }> }Score is an old term tha got fazed out around the 1800's, it means twenty. }So a 'three score of men' means sixty men. It is just a different version }to mark the number (also makes those who can only count fingers and toes }up to twenty you just count the digits three times). }-- }Lauri Gardner Actually, just about everybody in the US knows this (and it isn't exactly phased out - it just isn't used much any more) if for no other reason than Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, "Four score and seven years ago...". --- Carl ###### From: bjm10@cornell.edu (Jubilation T. Cornpone) Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Date: Tue, 02 May 2000 13:21:02 GMT Organization: Dogpatch, USA Lines: 22 Sender: verified_for_usenet@cornell.edu (bjm10 on d3167.dialup.cornell.edu) Message-ID: <8emkoh$djk$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> <8dvuno$p9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: d3167.dialup.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 957273681 13940 132.236.236.167 (2 May 2000 13:21:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 May 2000 13:21:21 GMT X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!cu-dial-up Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:5152 In article , Sierra Tigris wrote: >Thomas Bagwell posted Apr 24 re: Re: The number of the Beast > > >|Interestingly enough, in Roman numerals, 666 is written as DCLXVI which are >|the first 6 placemarkers in descending order (D=500, C=100, L=50, X=10, V=5, >|I=1). >| >|Just an observation... > > Scary. Could be something in that. Now I understand why the Romans >used that system. *grin* > > It reenforces the purely symbolic nature of the quantity chosen. 1,000 is a number traditionally cited to mean "completeness". Half of that would be 500 ("incompleteness"). Then it dwindles all the way down to nothing (or as close to nothing as you can get in Roman notation. The sum of this "dwindling down to nothing from incompleteness" would be DCLXVI, or 666 in our notation. Thus, "666" could be a code for "a real dingleberry". ###### From: "Doc Mindie" Newsgroups: rec.games.frp.misc Subject: Re: The number of the Beast Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 23:53:31 +0200 Organization: ElTele Øst AS Lines: 43 Message-ID: <8f4oan$ddd$1@news.ost.eltele.no> References: <8bh6r5$6c7$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8F04A2D2Cbkahlernetscapenet@10.10.1.11> <38E00F95.57A0@nospam.tyndale.apana.org.au> <8dvuno$p9d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8e3698$7e1$1@news.smartworld.net> <8emkoh$djk$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-212.125.168.49.sensewave.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.ost.eltele.no 957736087 13741 212.125.168.49 (7 May 2000 21:48:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@ost.eltele.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 May 2000 21:48:07 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!newspeer.highwayone.net!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!news.ost.eltele.no!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.games.frp.misc:5724 Jubilation T. Cornpone wrote in message news:8emkoh$djk$1@news01.cit.cornell.edu... > In article , Sierra Tigris wrote: > >Thomas Bagwell posted Apr 24 re: Re: The number of the Beast > > > > > >|Interestingly enough, in Roman numerals, 666 is written as DCLXVI which are > >|the first 6 placemarkers in descending order (D=500, C=100, L=50, X=10, V=5, > >|I=1). > >| > >|Just an observation... > > > > Scary. Could be something in that. Now I understand why the Romans > >used that system. *grin* > > > > > > It reenforces the purely symbolic nature of the quantity chosen. 1,000 is a > number traditionally cited to mean "completeness". Half of that would be 500 > ("incompleteness"). Then it dwindles all the way down to nothing (or as close > to nothing as you can get in Roman notation. The sum of this "dwindling down > to nothing from incompleteness" would be DCLXVI, or 666 in our notation. > > Thus, "666" could be a code for "a real dingleberry". I don't know what the word "dingleberry" means in my own language, but it resembles a word which refers to something that sometimes sits in the hairs around your butts . . . . and the funny part :" . . . it's number is the lumps in your arsehairs" :=) I do NOT mean to offend anyone, but I just couldn't let this one get away from me. Regards, Doc Mindie