From: "Lexus Godface" Subject: RPG fans... Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Lines: 4 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 17:03:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1075914215 4.5.120.231 (Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:03:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Feb 2004 12:03:35 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:975 I'm doing some (unofficial, amateur, hobby - pick any two) work on updating the Elfquest RPG from the chaosium mechanics to more modern systems. Right now, I'm modifying the heck out of White Wolf's Aberrant, and it's going pretty well... except there's two things that're bothering me. You RPG fans... A) can you think of a better system for differentiating between tribes than splats? B) And how would you suggest handling healing? I hate having it all under one magic, it just becomes a cure-all - but when I went to split it up, it became too complex. ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:35:58 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 52 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1075988158 876 129.241.210.68 (5 Feb 2004 13:35:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 5 Feb 2004 13:35:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!uio.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:984 Lexus Godface wrote: >I'm doing some (unofficial, amateur, hobby - pick any two) work on updating the Elfquest RPG from the chaosium mechanics to more modern systems. Right now, I'm modifying the heck out of White Wolf's Aberrant, and it's going pretty well... except there's two things that're bothering me. You RPG fans... > > I'd be interested in seeing what you've got going on. Personally I have a draft document for a EQ D20 rpg somewhere on my hard disc. I also have Aberrant in my bookshelf, but must admit I never more than skimmed the book. Back when I had more money than now, Id buy a bunch of books that I never planned to use just for the heck of it. I miss those days... Anyways, I'm familiar with some of the other White Wolf games so I might be able to help with some rules stuff. <> For a WoD-type system I'd suggest making Clans like in Vampire for each tribe. Each with weaknesses strengths and powers. Perhaps you could make the wolfblood posessed by Wolfriders (and Go-Backs) into a magical ability rather than just giving them higher physical abilities. <> Not sure how powers are handled in Abberrant (Dont have the book with me right now), but how about making Elf Magic similar to the Disciplines from Vampire? Healing would be one discipline, but for each dot a new Healing-related power would be gained. Regrowing limbs, curing disease, removing poison and ultimately restoring life would be healing-related powers. Also, Winnowill's mention that Rockshaping, Flesh-shaping etc are all related to Healing is interesting. Perhaps once three dots is placed into one form of healing, another related form of magic may be learned. I tried to figure out some tree-structures to how various branches of magic are related, but I guess I need to work some more on that. Btw, there were no line-shifts in your posting, really hard for my browser to read. Hope you can fix that :) Håvard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### From: "Lexus Godface" Subject: Re: RPG fans... Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Lines: 59 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 16:03:18 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1075996998 4.5.120.231 (Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:03:18 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 11:03:18 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:986 >I'd be interested in seeing what you've got going on. Personally I have a >draft document for a EQ D20 rpg somewhere on my hard disc. Well, it is a work in progress... I wouldn't mind seeing what you have going either, just so I can blatantly strip it for ideas and oversights and my part, but the D20 system... well, not the biggest fan of level/ class systems. }:D >For a WoD-type system I'd suggest making Clans like in Vampire for each >tribe. Each with weaknesses strengths and powers. That's what I refer to by "splats", and is actually what I'm trying to avoid because it's one of the facets I hate most about WoD - clans for vampires, tribes for werewolf, whatever it is for Mage. But, sadly, the more I look at it the more I suspect that it might really be the way to handle it. I just hate restricting the player that much! <> >Not sure how powers are handled in Abberrant (Dont have the book with me >right now), but how about making Elf Magic similar to the Disciplines from >Vampire? Hmm... maybe... right now what I did is... *hauls up notes* ...split healing up into different forms. Deaden Pain, Diagnosis, Disruption (Anti-Healing), Healing Touch (light), Induce Sleep, Mending Touch (heavy), Purification, Regeneration*, Resist Fatigue. See what I mean about being too complex? If I can cut that down to five dots' worth, maybe... it'd still be a power-skill, but I could feasibly treat it as a quantum power under Aberrant rules and charge more for it. So that might work. >Also, Winnowill's mention that Rockshaping, Flesh-shaping etc are all >related to Healing is interesting. Perhaps once three dots is placed into >one form of healing, another related form of magic may be learned. Winny said a lot of things, though, and not all of them are to be trusted... that's something I'm going to leave to GM discretion. You need Healing to do Flesh-Shaping, though, at least if you don't want to wait for your subject to heal naturally in between sessions. Still. I may end up combining Vampire and Aberrant on this, because the more I think about it, Disciplines might cover an EQ magic system pretty well. >I tried to figure out some tree-structures to how various branches of >magic are related, but I guess I need to work some more on that. Healing (as above), Physical (fire-starting, levitation, etc.), Sensitive (sending, feeling, et al.), Alteration (various shapers). }:D >Btw, there were no line-shifts in your posting, really hard for my browser >to read. Hope you can fix that :) Eep! Sorry, I'm actually posting with GrabIt, a client suited basically for mass downloads. I'm manually fixing it this time around... Thanks for the input! I'm going to need to dig up my Vampire book again and see if that's more suitable. ###### From: Richard Pini Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 12:36:22 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <050220041236223289%rpini@elfquest.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.7.1 (Carbon/OS X) X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!freenix!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!rpini Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:987 In article , Lexus Godface wrote: (snip) > > >Also, Winnowill's mention that Rockshaping, Flesh-shaping etc are all > >related to Healing is interesting. Perhaps once three dots is placed into > >one form of healing, another related form of magic may be learned. > > Winny said a lot of things, though, and not all of them are to be > trusted... that's something I'm going to leave to GM discretion. You > need Healing to do Flesh-Shaping, though, at least if you don't want to > wait for your subject to heal naturally in between sessions. Still. I > may end up combining Vampire and Aberrant on this, because the more I > think about it, Disciplines might cover an EQ magic system pretty well. (snip) The reason that Winnowill said that was that all affective Elfquest elf "powers" are some variation or other on telekinesis. When a healer heals, she is moving flesh and bone around, making or breaking connections between tissues, and so on. When a rockshaper creates a figure from stone, he is moving molecules of the raw material here and there. When a plantshaper causes plant tissue to change shape or to sprout faster than it would normally, it's the same principle - moving bits of cell or nutrient around in different (faster) ways than nature would. ###### From: Dreamstalker Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Thu, 05 Feb 2004 14:29:05 -0700 Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.62.173.37 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1076016544 34771633 D 66.62.173.37 ([180282]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.4) Gecko/20030624 Netscape/7.1 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!66.62.173.37!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:988 Håvard Faanes wrote: > Lexus Godface wrote: > >>I'm doing some (unofficial, amateur, hobby - pick any two) work on >>updating the Elfquest RPG from the chaosium mechanics to > more modern systems. Right now, I'm modifying the heck out of White > Wolf's Aberrant, and it's going pretty well... except there's two things > that're bothering me. You RPG fans... > > > > I'd be interested in seeing what you've got going on. Personally I have a > draft document for a EQ D20 rpg somewhere on my hard disc. I'd be interested as well. I've been trying to crossover the Elfquest RPG with Werewolf, BESM, and CoC--all d20 systems. Also been tearing my hair out yrting to convert the Ghostbusters RPG to d20, but that's another saga entirely and completely OT :-) > I also have Aberrant in my bookshelf, but must admit I never more than > skimmed the book. Back when I had more money than now, Id buy a bunch of > books that I never planned to use just for the heck of it. I miss those > days... Anyways, I'm familiar with some of the other White Wolf games so I > might be able to help with some rules stuff. > > < system for differentiating between tribes than splats? >> > > For a WoD-type system I'd suggest making Clans like in Vampire for each > tribe. Each with weaknesses strengths and powers. Perhaps you could make > the wolfblood posessed by Wolfriders (and Go-Backs) into a magical ability > rather than just giving them higher physical abilities. > > < you suggest handling healing? I hate having it all under one magic, it > just becomes a cure-all - but when I went to split it up, it became too > complex.>> > > Not sure how powers are handled in Abberrant (Dont have the book with me > right now), but how about making Elf Magic similar to the Disciplines from > Vampire? Healing would be one discipline, but for each dot a new > Healing-related power would be gained. Regrowing limbs, curing disease, > removing poison and ultimately restoring life would be healing-related > powers. I know that the Werewolf system includes magic for some of the tribes, so you might look there. The GURPS Werewolf book is probably more accessible than the White Wolf rulebook/tome. ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:48:14 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 71 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076071694 14194 129.241.210.68 (6 Feb 2004 12:48:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:48:14 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:989 Lexus Godface wrote: >Well, it is a work in progress... I wouldn't mind seeing what you have >going either, just so I can blatantly strip it for ideas and oversights >and my part, but the D20 system... well, not the biggest fan of level/ >class systems. }:D I'm not surprised :) I was also pretty annoyed with the level/class-systems for years, but have found myself returning to D&D after the new edition(s) came out. About my stuff, I'll see if I can put it on the web so you can download it. My stuff is very much "work in progess" aswell though, but feel free to steal anything you like. I'll see if I can do it later today. >That's what I refer to by "splats", and is actually what I'm trying to >avoid because it's one of the facets I hate most about WoD - clans for >vampires, tribes for werewolf, whatever it is for Mage. But, sadly, the >more I look at it the more I suspect that it might really be the way to >handle it. I just hate restricting the player that much! WitchCraft/Unisystem handles "races" as advantage packs (ie merits). That might be another and not so restricting way to handle it. Still, each race/tribe should have its advantages and disadvantages IMO. A Sunfolk Elf would never be as strong or physically imposing as a human or troll, but a Wolfrider might come close, strengthwise, due to the wolfblood in his veins. Sunfolk and Blue Mountain Elves are more apt with magic though, and since they are immortal, they will probably have had time to pick up some more skills before the game begins. Preservers are pretty useless as PCs though. [Healing] >Hmm... maybe... right now what I did is... *hauls up notes* ...split >healing up into different forms. Deaden Pain, Diagnosis, Disruption >(Anti-Healing), Healing Touch (light), Induce Sleep, Mending Touch (heavy), >Purification, Regeneration*, Resist Fatigue. See what I mean about being >too complex? If I can cut that down to five dots' worth, maybe... it'd >still be a power-skill, but I could feasibly treat it as a quantum power >under Aberrant rules and charge more for it. So that might work. I think level one should cover minor healing/fatigue reduction, and level five would be ressurrection. The rest cold be in between. >>I tried to figure out some tree-structures to how various branches of >>magic are related, but I guess I need to work some more on that. > >Healing (as above), Physical (fire-starting, levitation, etc.), Sensitive >(sending, feeling, et al.), Alteration (various shapers). }:D Makes sense I suppose. Id have more powers-skills, but make it a requirement for the elf to study one skill hard, before being able to pick up another. >>Btw, there were no line-shifts in your posting, really hard for my browser >>to read. Hope you can fix that :) > >Eep! Sorry, I'm actually posting with GrabIt, a client suited basically >for mass downloads. I'm manually fixing it this time around... No problem. Just much easier to read now :) >Thanks for the input! I'm going to need to dig up my Vampire book again >and see if that's more suitable. Alright! More later :) -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:56:58 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <050220041236223289%rpini@elfquest.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076072218 14194 129.241.210.68 (6 Feb 2004 12:56:58 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 6 Feb 2004 12:56:58 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:990 Richard Pini wrote: >The reason that Winnowill said that was that all affective Elfquest elf >"powers" are some variation or other on telekinesis. When a healer >heals, she is moving flesh and bone around, making or breaking >connections between tissues, and so on. When a rockshaper creates a >figure from stone, he is moving molecules of the raw material here and >there. When a plantshaper causes plant tissue to change shape or to >sprout faster than it would normally, it's the same principle - moving >bits of cell or nutrient around in different (faster) ways than nature >would. Ah, thanks for this clarification. This is one of the lines from the graphic novels that have intrigued me for years. What I am still wondering is, to how great an extent does this understanding allow a powerful elf to pick up new tricks? Most of the magic-heavy elves seem to focus on one type of magic (plantshaping, healing, rockshaping etc), but using this logic, it would seem that an elf who is powerful enough would be able to turn his knowledge of say healing into manipulating rocks or trees aswell? There aren't many examples of this in the books. Winnowill started out as a healer though and eventually learned "anti-healing" (never liked that word from the RPG), flesh shaping etc, although these are much closer related than healing would be to rock shaping I suppose. Rayek also seemed able to do quite alot of different stuff when he had absorbed the power of all of the Blue Mountain elves, although he may have just been using their powers, rather than actually understanding what he was doing, I suppose. Havard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: <050220041236223289%rpini@elfquest.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 55 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:59:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1076083193 4.5.120.231 (Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:59:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 10:59:53 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:992 > Richard Pini wrote: > >>The reason that Winnowill said that was that all affective Elfquest >>elf "powers" are some variation or other on telekinesis. ,,,it's >>the same principle - moving bits of cell or nutrient around in >>different (faster) ways than nature would. Far be it from me to argue with the source himself... (an obvious prelude to arguing with the source himself... }:D ) The way I've come to think of it is that each magic, while similar, takes a different approach. The healing magics all involve restoring "unnatural" flesh back to its "natural" state, a sort of PAR file for the elven body. A plantshaper is encouraging the natural growth of a plant, simply accelerating it and occasionally convincing it that it should be growing in an unusual fashion - whereas a rockshaper is just molding the stone like clay. Technically, they're all related to shifting matter around, so you could say it's all TK... but the approaches are so wildly different I have a hard time believing that you could relate them. (Not that Winnowill was wrong, but it's still an odd thing to say - you can't "heal" rock, after all.) > What I am still wondering is, to how great an extent does this > understanding allow a powerful elf to pick up new tricks? Most of the > magic-heavy elves seem to focus on one type of magic (plantshaping, > healing, rockshaping etc), but using this logic, it would seem that an > elf who is powerful enough would be able to turn his knowledge of say > healing into manipulating rocks or trees aswell? I think that's really up to the elves. With power, any elf can learn any magic - let's set this as a baseline. But it's then a question of appropriateness and personal preference. Appropriateness: Is a Sunfolk elf liable to learn water-shaping? Why would the forest-dwelling Wolfriders pick up rock-shaping? In the canon RPG, each tribe has specific magics listed, and the way I read that is because those are the magics that they would have feasibly picked up from other elves and their environment in the past. Personal preference: if an elf spends many turns developing a power, it's probably because they enjoy that magic, they identify with it in some way. They aren't planning to branch out with it later, like snagging Art Appreciation 101 as a prelude to Sculpture; it's just something they do. The latter question there about that logic ties into this, not to mention my first minirant above. While I might allow an elf with ties to the forest to use Healing on a tree, restoring damaged wood to its natural state (can't think of a reason why they'd want to, but that's RP value right there), I wouldn't think you could manipulate stone with it. Even if you had fleshshaping, I still wouldn't allow stoneshaping to follow as a cause-and-effect, because flesh and stone are just so different. It's like apples and elephants. And Richard, since you're taking part (which I appreciate, thank you)... are there any plans to resurrect the canon RPG in some form? I heard rumors at one point there might be a rerelease to compliment the movie, and I'm not going there, but I was wondering... ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 78 Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 17:15:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1076087756 4.5.120.231 (Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:15:56 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:15:56 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:993 > I'm not surprised :) > I was also pretty annoyed with the level/class-systems for years, but > have found myself returning to D&D after the new edition(s) came out. The OGL is a very nice thing, and I wish more companies were following suit instead of worshipping the d20 paradigm. I just hate seeing Star Wars with levels, for instance... I can hear the twinks now. "My level 11 sith can whup your level 20 wookie!" > About my stuff, I'll see if I can put it on the web so you can > download it. My stuff is very much "work in progess" aswell though, > but feel free to steal anything you like. I'll see if I can do it > later today. *bows* Thank you very much! I'll return the favor as soon as I have a coherent strategy for magic... grumble grumble. (It's mostly mechanics. I don't really have anything on setting yet, because, well, I'd rather not get sued and this is just a homegrown project.) > WitchCraft/Unisystem handles "races" as advantage packs (ie merits). > That might be another and not so restricting way to handle it. Might be - but I'm not familiar with that. *ponders* Tribes as merits? The problem with that is you /have/ to choose one... though I should probably provide a "baseline" tribe as well. But you still have to choose something as your tribe, even if it's "generic". I don't know if merits would work, especially with everything a tribe entails. > Still, > each race/tribe should have its advantages and disadvantages IMO Definitely agreed! It's harder to express some of the subtle distinctions (c.f. the 1-2 point shifts in stats you see in the canon RPG), but if nothing else I definitely need to differentiate between what skills and magic each tribe has access to. Not fully implemented yet, I'm afraid. Still trying to work out tribal splats. > Preservers are pretty useless as PCs though. Also agreed, but we've gotta provide stats. Never know when an enterprising GM is going to create a preserver culture and start RPing. Hmm... Preserver: The Wrapping... > [Healing] >>Hmm... maybe... right now what I did is... *hauls up notes* ...split >>healing up into different forms. Deaden Pain, Diagnosis, Disruption >>(Anti-Healing), Healing Touch (light), Induce Sleep, Mending Touch >>(heavy), Purification, Regeneration*, Resist Fatigue. See what I mean >>about being too complex? If I can cut that down to five dots' worth, >>maybe... it'd still be a power-skill, but I could feasibly treat it as >>a quantum power under Aberrant rules and charge more for it. So that >>might work. > > I think level one should cover minor healing/fatigue reduction, and > level five would be ressurrection. The rest cold be in between. *hauls up his notes* Were there any occurrences of resurrection in the comics? Okay, lessee... how about... Healing: (1)Deaden Pain, (2) Light/Fatigue, (3)Heavy, (4)Purification, (5)Resurrection. And I'll make it DAMN hard for PCs to get five dots in it. I guess part of the reason I've been avoiding making it one skill is because I've categorized healing under another heading, and I don't want it to be a stand-alone - even though it kind of is. :P >>Healing (as above), Physical (fire-starting, levitation, etc.), >>Sensitive (sending, feeling, et al.), Alteration (various shapers). >>}:D > Makes sense I suppose. Id have more powers-skills, but make it a > requirement for the elf to study one skill hard, before being able to > pick up another. Well, there are more than just what I listed. I've got between six and thirteen for each one. The way I've got it right now is to open up a form of magic, you need to take the primary magic first - Sending for Sensitive, Telekinesis for Physical, and Attunement for Alteration. (Attunement = grokking something's nature.) That opens up the category, and depending on what magics are available in your tribe/area, you can start learning others within it. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 88 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 01:53:32 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1076118812 4.5.120.231 (Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:53:32 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Feb 2004 20:53:32 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:994 > *bows* Thank you very much! I'll return the favor as soon as I have > a coherent strategy for magic... Okay, here's what I've just come up with for Discipline-style EQ magic... names, especially for extrapolation, are placeholders and only intended to give you a general idea. For those unfamiliar with Disciplines, VtM, they're "paths" of power. For each one, you need to get the first dot before picking up the second, the second before the third, etc., et al. This doesn't mean you can't get powerful with the first dot - they're still effective. You just need that prerequisite before moving on to the next. Starting characters in VtM get three dots in Disciplines, to distribute as they see fit within whatever ones are available to their clan (usu. choice between three). Sending 1 - Sending 2 - Mind-Block 3 - Empathy (Deep-Sense) 4 - Hypnosis 5 - Astral Projection Sensitive 1 - Magic-Feeling 2 - Homing Instinct 3 - Weather Sense (Stormseeing) 4 - Finding (Dowsing) 5 - Object Read (non-canon - allows the user to receive impressions and images from an object regarding its use, history and last owner) Bonding 1 - Tribal Bonding (bonding with whatever the tribe's mount of choice is - wolves, hawks, dolphins, etc.) 2 - Animal Bonding 3 - Overwhelm (sort of non-canon - puts animal into temporary trance state, helpless) 4 - Whisper (non-canon - simple suggestion for animal behavior, c.f. "kill", "leave", "quiet") 5 - Borrow (non-canon - slip into animal's mind, see with their eyes, make suggestions... Discworldesque) Shaping (a general ability that can apply to any of the magics - bone, plant, stone, flesh, etc. Water control will have seperate rules.) 1 - Attunement (non-canon - grok nature of whatever's being shaped) 2 - Growth (cause growth, shift along natural lines) 3 - Molding (causes growth along less natural lines, in a specific direction) 4 - Warping (alters the shape to something still natural, but different from where it began) 5 - Twisting (alters the source beyond recognition, to the point where you wouldn't know how it started... this is vague, I know, but the further you get from the 'natural' shape, the more power you need to make that change happen) Healing 1 - Deaden Pain (sort of non-canon, a prelude to actual healing - without it, it would be unimaginably painful) 2 - Healing Touch (light wounds) 3 - Mending Touch (heavy wounds) 4 - Purification (disease, poison) 5 - Restoration (resurrection/phoenix down - has to happen more-or-less immediately) Disruption (Anti-Healing) 1 - Cause Pain 2 - Abrasion 3 - Open Wounds 4 - Infection 5 - Rejection (phoenix up?) Levitation 1 - Support (support weight, lighten the load... it doesn't actually LIFT, just takes the load off) 2 - Lift (lifts the object straight up into the air) 3 - Hurl (from low gear to high - throwing the object at high speed) 4 - Guide (controlled levitation) 5 - Control (true flight) Protection (non-canon... likely magic for 'primitive' tribes, my own invention) 1 - Toughen Skin (natural armor) 2 - Maintain Stasis (resist severe cold, heatstroke, etc.) 3 - Resist Element (resist fire, extreme cold, etc.) 4 - Resist Poison 5 - Regeneration (on-the-spot healing) Firestarting (canon, but only found in High Ones... some severe extrapolation here, folks) 1 - Encourage (increase likelihood of fire and receptiveness to kindling) 2 - Ignite (start a small flame) 3 - Fuel (grow a pre-existing fire) 4 - Burst (start a larger flame) 5 - Direct (fire control - guide its flow) Anyone's thoughts? Should I BS more? Is Protection at all appropriate? Did I miss anything? ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:53:44 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 65 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076342024 21719 129.241.210.68 (9 Feb 2004 15:53:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 15:53:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:998 Lexus Godface wrote: >The OGL is a very nice thing, and I wish more companies were following >suit instead of worshipping the d20 paradigm. I just hate seeing Star >Wars with levels, for instance... I can hear the twinks now. "My level >11 sith can whup your level 20 wookie!" More OGL systems would be a good idea. I find D20 quite useful, but I think people are getting ready for return to a wider range of rules systems. >*bows* Thank you very much! I'll return the favor as soon as I have a >coherent strategy for magic... grumble grumble. (It's mostly mechanics. >I don't really have anything on setting yet, because, well, I'd rather >not get sued and this is just a homegrown project.) My D20 conversion notes can be found at http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa/elfquest/ Note that this is just a rough draft. Alot of it was written almost a year ago. I will probably update it with ideas from the current discussions, but for now I've just uploaded the old document. Check it out if you want. Also check out the more rules-light stuff on the last pages, that might be more interesting for you. >Might be - but I'm not familiar with that. *ponders* Tribes as merits? >The problem with that is you /have/ to choose one... though I should >probably provide a "baseline" tribe as well. But you still have to >choose something as your tribe, even if it's "generic". I don't know if >merits would work, especially with everything a tribe entails. I suppose splats are more appropriate to the system. I actually dont think the splats have to be very restrictive even if they are written in that way. >> Still, >> each race/tribe should have its advantages and disadvantages IMO > >Definitely agreed! It's harder to express some of the subtle >distinctions (c.f. the 1-2 point shifts in stats you see in the canon >RPG), but if nothing else I definitely need to differentiate between what >skills and magic each tribe has access to. Not fully implemented yet, >I'm afraid. Still trying to work out tribal splats. Wolfriders and Go-Backs should be physically more powerful. Sun Folk and Blue Mountain elves should be weaker, but have access to more magic. Thats a good start, aint it? >> Preservers are pretty useless as PCs though. > >Also agreed, but we've gotta provide stats. Never know when an >enterprising GM is going to create a preserver culture and start RPing. >Hmm... Preserver: The Wrapping... Lol! Preservers should have strength of 0 or maybe one dot max. with high dex and incredibly high endurance scores. (Snip) I'll comment on the magic stuff in the other thread. Havard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:11:44 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 142 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076343104 22304 129.241.210.68 (9 Feb 2004 16:11:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 9 Feb 2004 16:11:44 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!uninett.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:999 Lexus Godface wrote: >Okay, here's what I've just come up with for Discipline-style EQ magic... >names, especially for extrapolation, are placeholders and only intended >to give you a general idea. For those unfamiliar with Disciplines, VtM, >they're "paths" of power. For each one, you need to get the first dot >before picking up the second, the second before the third, etc., et al. >This doesn't mean you can't get powerful with the first dot - they're >still effective. You just need that prerequisite before moving on to the >next. Starting characters in VtM get three dots in Disciplines, to >distribute as they see fit within whatever ones are available to their >clan (usu. choice between three). Very nice! Additional idea: Have related powers. To obtain a new power after the game begins, you need at least 3 dots in a related power. Alternately, once you gain 5 dots in a power you may buy one power that is not related to it. >Sending >1 - Sending >2 - Mind-Block >3 - Empathy (Deep-Sense) >4 - Hypnosis >5 - Astral Projection I like this one. More rules on linking several "senders", capturing Astral Projected Souls etc might be useful too. Most elves seem to have sending so (except Go-Backs), so that should probably be included in the splats (if any). >Sensitive >1 - Magic-Feeling >2 - Homing Instinct >3 - Weather Sense (Stormseeing) >4 - Finding (Dowsing) >5 - Object Read (non-canon - allows the user to receive impressions and >images from an object regarding its use, history and last owner) >Bonding Decent enough. This one seems less useful than others though. You might want to include these powers into sending. >1 - Tribal Bonding (bonding with whatever the tribe's mount of choice is >- wolves, hawks, dolphins, etc.) >2 - Animal Bonding >3 - Overwhelm (sort of non-canon - puts animal into temporary trance >state, helpless) >4 - Whisper (non-canon - simple suggestion for animal behavior, c.f. >"kill", "leave", "quiet") >5 - Borrow (non-canon - slip into animal's mind, see with their eyes, >make suggestions... Discworldesque) Some good ideas here, although a bit off-canon. >Shaping (a general ability that can apply to any of the magics - bone, >plant, stone, flesh, etc. Water control will have seperate rules.) >1 - Attunement (non-canon - grok nature of whatever's being shaped) >2 - Growth (cause growth, shift along natural lines) >3 - Molding (causes growth along less natural lines, in a specific >direction) >4 - Warping (alters the shape to something still natural, but different >from where it began) >5 - Twisting (alters the source beyond recognition, to the point where >you wouldn't know how it started... this is vague, I know, but the >further you get from the 'natural' shape, the more power you need to make >that change happen) Just make sure that all the levels of this one are useful.... >Healing >1 - Deaden Pain (sort of non-canon, a prelude to actual healing - without >it, it would be unimaginably painful) >2 - Healing Touch (light wounds) >3 - Mending Touch (heavy wounds) >4 - Purification (disease, poison) >5 - Restoration (resurrection/phoenix down - has to happen more-or-less >immediately) Perfect! >Disruption (Anti-Healing) >1 - Cause Pain >2 - Abrasion >3 - Open Wounds >4 - Infection >5 - Rejection (phoenix up?) I like the name Disruption. Phoenix up meaning....? >Levitation >1 - Support (support weight, lighten the load... it doesn't actually >LIFT, just takes the load off) >2 - Lift (lifts the object straight up into the air) >3 - Hurl (from low gear to high - throwing the object at high speed) >4 - Guide (controlled levitation) >5 - Control (true flight) I think already with one dot you should be able to lift small things, like Rayek's dagger... >Protection (non-canon... likely magic for 'primitive' tribes, my own >invention) >1 - Toughen Skin (natural armor) >2 - Maintain Stasis (resist severe cold, heatstroke, etc.) >3 - Resist Element (resist fire, extreme cold, etc.) >4 - Resist Poison >5 - Regeneration (on-the-spot healing) Coolies! This one fits. Winnie should've learned more of this. >Firestarting (canon, but only found in High Ones... some severe >extrapolation here, folks) >1 - Encourage (increase likelihood of fire and receptiveness to kindling) >2 - Ignite (start a small flame) >3 - Fuel (grow a pre-existing fire) >4 - Burst (start a larger flame) >5 - Direct (fire control - guide its flow) This seems a little low-powered, doesnt it? >Anyone's thoughts? Should I BS more? Is Protection at all appropriate? >Did I miss anything? A few more ideas * Jink's "Jinking" * Palace-powers like time travel * Venka's Anti-Magic * Creating Monsters (Madcoil, Mindcoil, those nasty doggies, Tyldak etc) * Earthquake (Rayek did that with earth shaping or levitation, not sure * Rayek's telekinetic blasts * Winnie's spirit form (after death) * Human Psionics (from FutureQuest) Also, id like to see the various Shaping spells adressed separately. Especially Flesh Shaping can have some very interesting effects. Havard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 168 Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 17:26:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1076347597 4.5.120.231 (Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:26:37 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Feb 2004 12:26:37 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1000 > Very nice! Additional idea: Have related powers. To obtain a new power > after the game begins, you need at least 3 dots in a related power. > Alternately, once you gain 5 dots in a power you may buy one power > that is not related to it. *hrms* I don't know about the "related power" aspect. Then I'd have to relate all the powers in some way, and okay - so Sending and Sensitive are related, but what's Rockshaping related to? Levitation? And what would Levitation itself be related to? I like the "5 dots" rule, although I'm going to drop that to four dots because I plan to make five dots difficult to achieve. Those magics tend to be very powerful, raising the dead and sending thousands of miles and twisting a tree into a T-Rex. Still... should a rule like this exist? Or should we let players and GMs alike decide when it's appropriate to acquire a new magic? I'd rather not have a character maxing out their Sending just because they want the opportunity to acquire Healing. >>Sending >> > I like this one. More rules on linking several "senders", capturing > Astral Projected Souls etc might be useful too. Most elves seem to > have sending so (except Go-Backs), so that should probably be included > in the splats (if any). Yep, Sending is going to be a popular option for most all the tribes. The thing about the magics is that each dot is going to be handled seperately, as much so as I can manage - so Astral Projection itself would have the rules and concepts for both going astral and capturing an astral soul. >>Sensitive >> > Decent enough. This one seems less useful than others though. You > might want to include these powers into sending. Technically, they ARE a part of sending, so that certainly would be appropriate. The reason I split these into their own is because all of these powers involve less 'communication' and more 'feeling'. The real reason, of course, is to maintain the five-dot hierarchy. But seriously - not all powers are going to be created equal (though the sea elves in particular find this one useful, if I understand correctly...) >>Bonding >> > Some good ideas here, although a bit off-canon. *nods* Yeah, this was stretching a little. Again, five dot thing. I like it, though - we've already seen Rayek overwhelm an animal's mind (even if it was technically through hypnosis), and the rest is a semi- logical progression. >>Shaping > Just make sure that all the levels of this one are useful.... Again, it's really a Your Mileage May Vary. Shaping is one of those situational things, most of the time it's there to provide RP value. To be honest, I'll settle for making sure all the levels are understandably unique. > Also, id like to see the various Shaping spells adressed separately. > Especially Flesh Shaping can have some very interesting effects. They will be, actually. For right now, this is a 'catch-all', one that has the potential to address any of the shaping magics in general principle. In practice, I plan to have a little section that details the quirks and gimmicks of each seperate magic, because you're right - they all have their own methods. Flesh-shaping, for instance, is going to do real damage if you don't have healing! >>Healing >>5 - Restoration (resurrection/phoenix down) >>Disruption (Anti-Healing) >>5 - Rejection (phoenix up?) > I like the name Disruption. Phoenix up meaning....? Anti-Healing is a silly name, isn't it? *grins* Okay, that was just me being a geek. 'Phoenix down' is the classic name for a one-use item in console RPGs, especially Final Fantasy, that brings a character back to life once they've reached 0 hit points. So whenever someone gets brought back to life, it's a 'phoenix down'. And since the opposite of that would be taking someone's life then and there, it'd be a 'phoenix up', and I'm going to make damn sure it's not easy to do... actually, something that would work better, I just thought of this, would be to make it elicit a sort of nonconsensual astral projection state, a 'death trance' that can be recovered from. >>Levitation >> > I think already with one dot you should be able to lift small things, > like Rayek's dagger... *rubs chin* Maybe. Like I said earlier, I'm trying to keep each dot unique so I can justify going up another level. Okay, how about one dot of Levitation allows for the lifting of small objects, but everything else it just lightens the load? I'll have to put a few more rules in, but it does make sense that something capable of taking half the weight from a fallen tree can take more than enough weight off a simple dagger... unless of course I can figure out another dot to stick in between what's now 2 and 3. Or somewhere else. Hey, how about this? Remove dot 1, shift everything around, added dot 4. 1 - Lift (lifts the object straight up into the air) 2 - Hurl (from low gear to high - throwing the object at high speed) 3 - Guide (controlled levitation) 4 - Telekinesis (allows fine manipulation of object as if it were held in actual hands) 5 - Control (true flight) >>Firestarting > This seems a little low-powered, doesnt it? I was looking at the power from the RPG to try and work this one out. Even in the RPG, the most it can really do is ignite a flammable object - this ain't no pyrokinesis. It's actually MORE powerful than canon dictates! > A few more ideas > * Jink's "Jinking" > * Palace-powers like time travel > * Venka's Anti-Magic > * Creating Monsters (Madcoil, Mindcoil, those nasty doggies, Tyldak > etc) * Earthquake (Rayek did that with earth shaping or levitation, > not sure * Rayek's telekinetic blasts > * Winnie's spirit form (after death) > * Human Psionics (from FutureQuest) I have to admit - I've only read some of ElfQuest. This is the area where I need the most help, addressing things that come after what I've read. And basically, with the exception of Madcoil, everything listed here falls under that category. My goal really is twofold: to produce something that can address every aspect of Elfquest (unlike the original, which concentrated almost exclusively on Wolfriders and mimicking the original comics), and to produce something more approachable than the Chaosium d100 system. I'm handicapped in the former, which is the other reason why I'm looking to the newsgroups for guidance. I really should just wait until I can either afford the full run or gank someone else's, but I've recently been involved in an EQ game and it inspired me... > I suppose splats are more appropriate to the system. I actually dont > think the splats have to be very restrictive even if they are written > in that way. They aren't, really, if you take a liberal view. I suppose I just dislike the way they're presented.. oh well. I can present them any way I like, can't I? }:D Any RPG effort should address the whole Elfquest timeline, oh sod this. *searches ebay for an Elfquest 'dictionary' of some sort* Anyway, it's very likely that I'll present the system, then have seperate sections for 'past', 'present' and 'future' settings. It'll make the document nice and thick, but that way I don't have to try to justify Madcoil beside cybernetics. > Wolfriders and Go-Backs should be physically more powerful. Sun Folk > and Blue Mountain elves should be weaker, but have access to more > magic. Thats a good start, aint it? Oh, definitely. The problem is exactly how to go about this. Limit how many dots you can have in a stat? Implement point costs for dots that differ per tribe? I hate to unnecessarily increase math like that. *grumbles* Maybe I need to add something to the system, where Wolfriders are +1 to might and Sun Folk are -1. This doesn't actually affect the number of dots, but when a three-dot Wolfrider faces off against a three- dot Sun Folk, the Wolfrider is considered stronger... as a sort of tiebreaker? ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:29:19 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 217 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076416159 28252 129.241.210.68 (10 Feb 2004 12:29:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 12:29:19 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.vmunix.org!uio.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1001 Lexus Godface wrote: >*hrms* I don't know about the "related power" aspect. Then I'd have to >relate all the powers in some way, and okay - so Sending and Sensitive >are related, but what's Rockshaping related to? Levitation? And what >would Levitation itself be related to? Yeah, this may be one of those ideas that seemed good at the time, but that are hard to implement. >I like the "5 dots" rule, although I'm going to drop that to four dots >because I plan to make five dots difficult to achieve. Those magics tend >to be very powerful, raising the dead and sending thousands of miles and >twisting a tree into a T-Rex. Still... should a rule like this exist? >Or should we let players and GMs alike decide when it's appropriate to >acquire a new magic? I'd rather not have a character maxing out their >Sending just because they want the opportunity to acquire Healing. Fair enough on the 4 dot limit. I think we could allow for other opportunities to learn new powers aswell, studying with a mentor, being exposed to extreme conditions etc, but I also like magic users being able to expand their power through power itself. I see the problems this could involve though, as you point out. I also like 5 dot abilities being super powerful. Think Rayek at certain points. Perhaps Willpower could be spent to use higher level powers in desperate situations aswell? >Yep, Sending is going to be a popular option for most all the tribes. >The thing about the magics is that each dot is going to be handled >seperately, as much so as I can manage - so Astral Projection itself >would have the rules and concepts for both going astral and capturing an >astral soul. This would work. >>>Sensitive >Technically, they ARE a part of sending, so that certainly would be >appropriate. The reason I split these into their own is because all of >these powers involve less 'communication' and more 'feeling'. The real >reason, of course, is to maintain the five-dot hierarchy. But seriously >- not all powers are going to be created equal (though the sea elves in >particular find this one useful, if I understand correctly...) I see the logic behind this. It seems to me though that virtually all elves were able to send and sense magic (except the Go-Backs). >>>Bonding >*nods* Yeah, this was stretching a little. Again, five dot thing. I >like it, though - we've already seen Rayek overwhelm an animal's mind >(even if it was technically through hypnosis), and the rest is a semi- >logical progression. Works for me! >>>Shaping >> Just make sure that all the levels of this one are useful.... > >Again, it's really a Your Mileage May Vary. Shaping is one of those >situational things, most of the time it's there to provide RP value. To >be honest, I'll settle for making sure all the levels are understandably >unique. Okay, ill see what you come up with :) >> Also, id like to see the various Shaping spells adressed separately. >> Especially Flesh Shaping can have some very interesting effects. > >They will be, actually. For right now, this is a 'catch-all', one that >has the potential to address any of the shaping magics in general >principle. In practice, I plan to have a little section that details the >quirks and gimmicks of each seperate magic, because you're right - they >all have their own methods. Flesh-shaping, for instance, is going to do >real damage if you don't have healing! Never thought of that one. Flesh Shaping seems to be the most powerful one anyways, and having to combine it with healing seems like a good way to balance it with the others. >> I like the name Disruption. Phoenix up meaning....? > >Anti-Healing is a silly name, isn't it? *grins* Okay, that was just me >being a geek. 'Phoenix down' is the classic name for a one-use item in >console RPGs, especially Final Fantasy, that brings a character back to >life once they've reached 0 hit points. So whenever someone gets brought >back to life, it's a 'phoenix down'. And since the opposite of that >would be taking someone's life then and there, it'd be a 'phoenix up', >and I'm going to make damn sure it's not easy to do... actually, >something that would work better, I just thought of this, would be to >make it elicit a sort of nonconsensual astral projection state, a 'death >trance' that can be recovered from. I never liked Anti-Healing either. I never knew why Sandy Peterson & Al. came up with that. Thanks for the info on the Phoenix lingo. I like the idea of the death trance too. >>>Levitation >1 - Lift (lifts the object straight up into the air) >2 - Hurl (from low gear to high - throwing the object at high speed) >3 - Guide (controlled levitation) >4 - Telekinesis (allows fine manipulation of object as if it were held in >actual hands) >5 - Control (true flight) I like this! Another thing I was thinking about though. Perhaps Gliding should be a separate power aswell. People like Rayek learned flying from Levitation, but the Blue Mountain elves were excellent flyers, though didnt seem to be able to lift other objects than themselves. Thoughts? >>>Firestarting >> This seems a little low-powered, doesnt it? > >I was looking at the power from the RPG to try and work this one out. >Even in the RPG, the most it can really do is ignite a flammable object - >this ain't no pyrokinesis. It's actually MORE powerful than canon >dictates! Yep. AFAIK this power was only featured in the graphic novels once, in the issue with Madcoil, showing some High Ones making a fire to protect themselves against the cold. >> A few more ideas >> * Jink's "Jinking" >> * Palace-powers like time travel >> * Venka's Anti-Magic >> * Creating Monsters (Madcoil, Mindcoil, those nasty doggies, Tyldak >> etc) * Earthquake (Rayek did that with earth shaping or levitation, >> not sure * Rayek's telekinetic blasts >> * Winnie's spirit form (after death) >> * Human Psionics (from FutureQuest) > >I have to admit - I've only read some of ElfQuest. This is the area >where I need the most help, addressing things that come after what I've >read. And basically, with the exception of Madcoil, everything listed >here falls under that category. Fair enought, see below... >My goal really is twofold: to produce something that can address every >aspect of Elfquest (unlike the original, which concentrated almost >exclusively on Wolfriders and mimicking the original comics), and to >produce something more approachable than the Chaosium d100 system. I'm >handicapped in the former, which is the other reason why I'm looking to >the newsgroups for guidance. I really should just wait until I can >either afford the full run or gank someone else's, but I've recently been >involved in an EQ game and it inspired me... I think starting small is good here. You dont have to create rules for every aspect of the game right away. Simply make enough to get a campaign started and work it from there. Rare powers, stuff from the later comics etc might be left out from the early process. >> I suppose splats are more appropriate to the system. I actually dont >> think the splats have to be very restrictive even if they are written >> in that way. > >They aren't, really, if you take a liberal view. I suppose I just >dislike the way they're presented.. oh well. I can present them any way >I like, can't I? }:D Sure, why not :D >Any RPG effort should address the whole Elfquest timeline, oh sod this. >*searches ebay for an Elfquest 'dictionary' of some sort* Anyway, it's >very likely that I'll present the system, then have seperate sections for >'past', 'present' and 'future' settings. It'll make the document nice >and thick, but that way I don't have to try to justify Madcoil beside >cybernetics. Makes sense. >> Wolfriders and Go-Backs should be physically more powerful. Sun Folk >> and Blue Mountain elves should be weaker, but have access to more >> magic. Thats a good start, aint it? >Oh, definitely. The problem is exactly how to go about this. Limit how >many dots you can have in a stat? Implement point costs for dots that >differ per tribe? I hate to unnecessarily increase math like that. >*grumbles* Maybe I need to add something to the system, where Wolfriders >are +1 to might and Sun Folk are -1. This doesn't actually affect the >number of dots, but when a three-dot Wolfrider faces off against a three- >dot Sun Folk, the Wolfrider is considered stronger... as a sort of >tiebreaker? Different point costs for each tribe sounds painful for both designers and players. Id prefer to have max and min requirements personally. Ie Sun Folk can only begin the game with max 4 dots in Strength and Endurance. Wolfriders must have atleast 2 dots in each of these (max 5). Alternately, you could have all elves use the same rules and have Merits: Wolf Blood: You get an automatic success on all Str/En checks, as if you had spent a Willpower point. This does not increase the number of successes possible. Immortal: You live forever. You get an automatic success to Int checks as if you had spent a Willpower Point. You may never have Wolf Blood _and_ Immortal. Elves _must_ have one of these, most likely determined by tribe. Humans may not have any of them Preservers and Trolls are Immortal. Just an idea. Håvard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 138 Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 16:51:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1076431873 4.5.120.231 (Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:51:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Feb 2004 11:51:13 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator4-cogent.newsfeed.com!propagator2-sterling!news-in.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1002 > Fair enough on the 4 dot limit. I think we could allow for other > opportunities to learn new powers aswell, studying with a mentor, > being exposed to extreme conditions etc, but I also like magic users > being able to expand their power through power itself. I see the > problems this could involve though, as you point out. I like it too, and I like the idea of encouraging mages to concentrate on one or two powers - which is what they tended to do in the comic itself. I'm just not sure how to enforce it without being overly restrictive. Maybe I can put something in about how when a mage gets to four dots in one power, they can purchase another power at a lower cost. It's a little out of date at this point, of course, but right now Magic - the raw power itself - is being treated as a Background. That background is going to help determine how many powers you can acquire. So how about halfway? You can obtain new powers at will up to the limit your background (and the situation) allows, but after that you need to develop one of those powers up to four-dot potential, which grants you the ability to obtain another one? That way it's a limitation based on natural talent. > I also like 5 dot abilities being super powerful. Think Rayek at > certain points. Perhaps Willpower could be spent to use higher level > powers in desperate situations aswell? Hmm... Willpower COULD be. That's another thing I'll leave up to GM fiat, simply because things vary too widely to make a single compelling ruling on. Going up a dot in Sending brings you to an entirely new use of the power, and without that having been developed I wouldn't want to allow a player just to say "well, he's never used Hypnosis before but he REALLY WANTS TO". But going up a dot in, say, Healing is more along the same lines, and I would allow for a "heroic effort" burn there. >>>>Sensitive >>Technically, they ARE a part of sending, so that certainly would be >>appropriate. > I see the logic behind this. It seems to me though that virtually all > elves were able to send and sense magic (except the Go-Backs). You know, this is true? And I've been trying to implement that by making the single-dot powers easy to come by. But then that opens up the path for greater magic and there's no way to seperate the "casual users" from the "developing powers". So here's what I'm thinking, keep these magics as-is but also offer these baseline powers as merits, so (almost) every elf can pick up Sending and Magic-Feeling right at the start without necessarily being a MAGE per se. One of my elves from the RPG, his bloody bond-mount had a higher power than he did, but he could still send - and this would allow for that... >> Flesh-shaping, for instance, is >>going to do real damage if you don't have healing! > Never thought of that one. Flesh Shaping seems to be the most powerful > one anyways, and having to combine it with healing seems like a good > way to balance it with the others. In the canon RPG, it's taken care of by making Healing a prerequisite power. Unfortunately, the system I've got set up at the moment can't duplicate that without combining Healing and Flesh-shaping into the same structure, and that just doesn't make sense to me. So I'm going to have them seperate, and if someone tries serious flesh-shaping without healing (either because they can't or won't), they'd better have a mop on hand. > I never liked Anti-Healing either. I never knew why Sandy Peterson & > Al. came up with that. Thanks for the info on the Phoenix lingo. I > like the idea of the death trance too. More innocent times... for what they had to work with, eighteen issues of a first-run comic, I think they did damn well! Otherwise I would've thrown the RPG out entire and started from scratch. It's a little silly, yes, but so are percentage dice used for action-resolution, which is why I'm doing all this. }:D >>>>Levitation > > I like this! > Another thing I was thinking about though. Perhaps Gliding should be a > separate power aswell. People like Rayek learned flying from > Levitation, but the Blue Mountain elves were excellent flyers, though > didnt seem to be able to lift other objects than themselves. Thoughts? *rubs his chin* I'm actually liable to agree with you on this. The canon considers it part and parcel of the same power, and I don't mind this. But when you do the math, the Gliders have to blow an inordinate amount of power just to get from point A to point B. So for Gliders, and Preservers as well just to be fair, Gliding can be another one of those cheapo merits - allows self-contained, inexpensive flight. >>> A few more ideas >>> >>My goal really is twofold: to produce something that can address every >>aspect of Elfquest (unlike the original, which concentrated almost >>exclusively on Wolfriders and mimicking the original comics), and to >>produce something more approachable than the Chaosium d100 system. > I think starting small is good here. You dont have to create rules for > every aspect of the game right away. Simply make enough to get a > campaign started and work it from there. Rare powers, stuff from the > later comics etc might be left out from the early process. Mmm, true. I'm reluctant to do that - I mean, no, it doesn't have to be a finely polished tome while in alpha still. But if I don't look ahead, I could end up creating a system which works well for the first setting but ends up antithetical to later settings - that can handle the tribal era, but not the modern era. (Right now, I'm looking at four settings... tribal, medieval, modern, and future. I don't think there ever was a modern in the canon, but what the hell - while I'm there, right?) >>> Wolfriders and Go-Backs should be physically more powerful. Sun Folk >>> and Blue Mountain elves should be weaker, but have access to more >>> magic. Thats a good start, aint it? > Different point costs for each tribe sounds painful for both designers > and players. Id prefer to have max and min requirements personally. > > Alternately, you could have all elves use the same rules and have > Merits: That's pretty much what I was thinking, just mentioning in the descriptions of each tribe "Wolfriders tend to concentrate on strength", "Blue Mountain elves are cultured and leave the heavy lifting to lesser races" and let the players make of it what they will. I'm liking the idea of tribal merits more, just for things like Wolfriders picking up scents - the sort of things that directly affect gameplay. > Wolf Blood: You get an automatic success on all Str/En checks, as if > you had spent a Willpower point. > Immortal: You live forever. You get an automatic success to Int checks > as if you had spent a Willpower Point. This is one of those things I'm not sure about. That's a heavy advantage - it means even the weakest Wolfrider and the most scatterbrained Immortal are capable of performing a one-success act every time, unless they botch. I try to steer away from 'automatic success' whenever possible, but... I don't know, maybe that's appropriate. Give everyone an automatic success at certain tasks. It could actually make things a little more cinematic, so long as players remembered to put them in use! Your thoughts? And I really appreciate the feedback, by the way. You've been very helpful in getting this house in order. }:D ###### From: hoc@nvg.ntnu.no (=?iso-8859-1?Q?H=E5vard?= Faanes) Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:51:16 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Nettverksgruppa, NTNU Lines: 167 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: tyfon.itea.ntnu.no 1076507476 14332 129.241.210.68 (11 Feb 2004 13:51:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@itea.ntnu.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 13:51:16 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!luth.se!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!uninett.no!ntnu.no!hoc Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1003 Lexus Godface wrote: >I like it too, and I like the idea of encouraging mages to concentrate on >one or two powers - which is what they tended to do in the comic itself. >I'm just not sure how to enforce it without being overly restrictive. >Maybe I can put something in about how when a mage gets to four dots in >one power, they can purchase another power at a lower cost. This is what I had in mind. >It's a little out of date at this point, of course, but right now Magic - >the raw power itself - is being treated as a Background. That background >is going to help determine how many powers you can acquire. So how about >halfway? You can obtain new powers at will up to the limit your >background (and the situation) allows, but after that you need to develop >one of those powers up to four-dot potential, which grants you the >ability to obtain another one? That way it's a limitation based on >natural talent. This is a possibility. Each tribe will be limited to a certain set of powers (via backgrounds, possibly). The four-dot rule allows the mage to go beyond the limits set by your tribe? >> I also like 5 dot abilities being super powerful. Think Rayek at >> certain points. Perhaps Willpower could be spent to use higher level >> powers in desperate situations aswell? > >Hmm... Willpower COULD be. That's another thing I'll leave up to GM >fiat, simply because things vary too widely to make a single compelling >ruling on. Going up a dot in Sending brings you to an entirely new use >of the power, and without that having been developed I wouldn't want to >allow a player just to say "well, he's never used Hypnosis before but he >REALLY WANTS TO". But going up a dot in, say, Healing is more along the >same lines, and I would allow for a "heroic effort" burn there. Hmmm..guess I'm more into having a defined set of rules which apply to all situations, but whatever works for you I suppose. >>>>>Sensitive >>>Technically, they ARE a part of sending, so that certainly would be >>>appropriate. >> I see the logic behind this. It seems to me though that virtually all >> elves were able to send and sense magic (except the Go-Backs). > >You know, this is true? And I've been trying to implement that by making >the single-dot powers easy to come by. But then that opens up the path >for greater magic and there's no way to seperate the "casual users" from >the "developing powers". So here's what I'm thinking, keep these magics >as-is but also offer these baseline powers as merits, so (almost) every >elf can pick up Sending and Magic-Feeling right at the start without >necessarily being a MAGE per se. One of my elves from the RPG, his >bloody bond-mount had a higher power than he did, but he could still send >- and this would allow for that... I think I will be going somewhere along this way with my D20 version aswell. It doesnt seem as elegant, but it may be a better way to reproduce the effects from the graphic novels. >>> Flesh-shaping, for instance, is >>>going to do real damage if you don't have healing! >> Never thought of that one. Flesh Shaping seems to be the most powerful >> one anyways, and having to combine it with healing seems like a good >> way to balance it with the others. > >In the canon RPG, it's taken care of by making Healing a prerequisite >power. Unfortunately, the system I've got set up at the moment can't >duplicate that without combining Healing and Flesh-shaping into the same >structure, and that just doesn't make sense to me. So I'm going to have >them seperate, and if someone tries serious flesh-shaping without healing >(either because they can't or won't), they'd better have a mop on hand. Why not have the same system of prerequisites? This can even be combined with the merits mentioned above. You must have the Sending Merit to buy the Sending power. In order to gain the Flesh Shaping power, you must already have at least one dot in Healing. In order to buy disruption, you must already have 3 dots in healing, and may never increase healing again... Just a couple of ideas. > >>>>>Levitation >> >> I like this! >> Another thing I was thinking about though. Perhaps Gliding should be a >> separate power aswell. People like Rayek learned flying from >> Levitation, but the Blue Mountain elves were excellent flyers, though >> didnt seem to be able to lift other objects than themselves. Thoughts? > >*rubs his chin* I'm actually liable to agree with you on this. The >canon considers it part and parcel of the same power, and I don't mind >this. But when you do the math, the Gliders have to blow an inordinate >amount of power just to get from point A to point B. So for Gliders, and >Preservers as well just to be fair, Gliding can be another one of those >cheapo merits - allows self-contained, inexpensive flight. Possibly. Seems like a very useful merit though. [Taking one step at a time] >Mmm, true. I'm reluctant to do that - I mean, no, it doesn't have to be >a finely polished tome while in alpha still. But if I don't look ahead, >I could end up creating a system which works well for the first setting >but ends up antithetical to later settings - that can handle the tribal >era, but not the modern era. (Right now, I'm looking at four settings... >tribal, medieval, modern, and future. I don't think there ever was a >modern in the canon, but what the hell - while I'm there, right?) It would be good at least not to contradict canon. The Storyteller system can generally handle all of the settings. The main problems will be the things that deal with non-humans (elves, trolls, preservers, aliens, robots) and magic. The modern era doesnt sound very interesting in that respect, as elves were probably already gone, believed by then to be a myth. Humans did not yet have psionics, since computers are required to enhance a humans mind to that stage, at least as far as canon goes. What happened to the Trolls, preservers etc is still unknown. >>>> Wolfriders and Go-Backs should be physically more powerful. Sun Folk >>>> and Blue Mountain elves should be weaker, but have access to more >>>> magic. Thats a good start, aint it? >> Different point costs for each tribe sounds painful for both designers >> and players. Id prefer to have max and min requirements personally. >> >> Alternately, you could have all elves use the same rules and have >> Merits: >That's pretty much what I was thinking, just mentioning in the >descriptions of each tribe "Wolfriders tend to concentrate on strength", >"Blue Mountain elves are cultured and leave the heavy lifting to lesser >races" and let the players make of it what they will. I'm liking the >idea of tribal merits more, just for things like Wolfriders picking up >scents - the sort of things that directly affect gameplay. Fair enough. >> Wolf Blood: You get an automatic success on all Str/En checks, as if >> you had spent a Willpower point. >> Immortal: You live forever. You get an automatic success to Int checks >> as if you had spent a Willpower Point. > >This is one of those things I'm not sure about. That's a heavy advantage >- it means even the weakest Wolfrider and the most scatterbrained >Immortal are capable of performing a one-success act every time, unless >they botch. I try to steer away from 'automatic success' whenever >possible, but... I don't know, maybe that's appropriate. Give everyone >an automatic success at certain tasks. It could actually make things a >little more cinematic, so long as players remembered to put them in use! >Your thoughts? One way to limit it is to have some form of blood points (magic points) from Vampire. Allow activation of the Wolf Blood bonuses from magic points. I'm having a feeling that Aberrant has a different (but similar) mechanic, but I cant remember how it worked. >And I really appreciate the feedback, by the way. You've been very >helpful in getting this house in order. }:D Thanks! I have been enjoying this conversation too. I will probably steal quite a few ideas from it myself for the D20 conversion, if I ever get around to completing it. Havard -- *** Håvard R. Faanes http://www.stud.ntnu.no/~havardfa ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 111 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:26:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc02.gnilink.net 1076527613 4.5.120.231 (Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:26:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 14:26:53 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc02.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1004 > This is a possibility. Each tribe will be limited to a certain set of > powers (via backgrounds, possibly). The four-dot rule allows the mage > to go beyond the limits set by your tribe? *rubs chin* The limits set by the tribal splats... okay, I think we need an official ruling on this. I know that having one's parents have a magic makes it more likely for the child to pick it up, but I don't know just how much of tribal magic is hereditary and how much of it is appropriateness and circumstance. Richard, if you're still lurking - how easily could, example, a Wolfrider pick up rockshaping if a Mountain elf deigned to try and teach? Is that a possibility? [GM fiat regarding overextending powers] > Hmmm..guess I'm more into having a defined set of rules which apply to > all situations, but whatever works for you I suppose. I like having a defined set of rules too, but I'm trying to avoid locking players/GMs into a 'script', y'know? If they can justify going outside the box, I'm all for that. But if I provide a truly comprehensive set of regs, they'll stop thinking about "what should I do?" and start thinking about "what can I do with these rules?" >>So here's what I'm thinking, >>keep these magics as-is but also offer these baseline powers as >>merits, so (almost) every elf can pick up Sending and Magic-Feeling >>right at the start without necessarily being a MAGE per se. > I think I will be going somewhere along this way with my D20 version > aswell. It doesnt seem as elegant, but it may be a better way to > reproduce the effects from the graphic novels. Well, it is elegant, in a way - it's going to help seperate the casual users from the power users. Anyone can send, but it takes a Sender to really push the limits... and while anyone can gank the Sending merit (and most elves will) to turn their skull into a cellphone, it takes the Magic background and some dots in Sending to get true power. > Why not have the same system of prerequisites? This can even be > combined with the merits mentioned above. You must have the Sending > Merit to buy the Sending power. In order to gain the Flesh Shaping > power, you must already have at least one dot in Healing. In order to > buy disruption, you must already have 3 dots in healing, and may never > increase healing again... Basically, because: too much work. It'd be easy enough for me to implement - just say "yeah, you can only get this power if..." But the five-dot hierarchy is already a prerequisite in and of itself. *rubs his chin* And under most circumstances, I'm not sure that the prereq is really appropriate. The Healing/Disruption split is the only thing I can think of. I'll have to think about it. I mean, I can see requiring the merit before the power, and I suppose the reason is that in chargen I don't want players to have to go back and forth between sections, flipping between "tribal merits" and "magical requirements" and "magic background". >>> Another thing I was thinking about though. Perhaps Gliding should be >>> a separate power aswell. >>So for Gliders, and Preservers as well just to be fair, Gliding can be >>another one of those cheapo merits - allows self-contained, >>inexpensive flight. > Possibly. Seems like a very useful merit though. Oh, it would be. "Inexpensive" isn't "free", but still - flying is just plain useful. BM elves are powerful! > [Taking one step at a time] > It would be good at least not to contradict canon. The Storyteller > system can generally handle all of the settings. The main problems > will be the things that deal with non-humans (elves, trolls, > preservers, aliens, robots) and magic. Magic is basically covered by Disciplines at this point - I can make that work. Non-humans? I'm going to offer trolls and the like as PCs too. I'll probably do the same thing that's being contemplated for the tribal merits, c.f. troll blood = 2 automatic successes on strength rolls. Robots and aliens, well, I don't know anything about so I can't really say... > The modern era doesnt sound very interesting in that respect, as elves > were probably already gone, believed by then to be a myth. Humans did > not yet have psionics, since computers are required to enhance a > humans mind to that stage, at least as far as canon goes. What > happened to the Trolls, preservers etc is still unknown. Aww, bugger, really? Okay, scrap the modern era. Tribal, medieval, future. 'Tribal' and 'medieval' are going to end up very similar, though... I might as well combine them and do my best to present "before" and "after" stats for everyone. I'll feel silly having two primitive eras and then a third futuristic one. }:D >>> Wolf Blood: You get an automatic success on all Str/En checks, as if >>> you had spent a Willpower point. >>> Immortal: You live forever. You get an automatic success to Int >>> checks as if you had spent a Willpower Point. >>This is one of those things I'm not sure about. That's a heavy >>advantage... > One way to limit it is to have some form of blood points (magic > points) from Vampire. Allow activation of the Wolf Blood bonuses from > magic points. I'm having a feeling that Aberrant has a different (but > similar) mechanic, but I cant remember how it worked. Mmm, maybe. Blow Willpower and get successes? The more I think about it, the more I like just going ahead and giving them those successes, keeping things cinematic. I'll have to playtest it before I'm really comfortable with the idea, and make sure you always have a chance of rolling a botch, but... > Thanks! I have been enjoying this conversation too. I will probably > steal quite a few ideas from it myself for the D20 conversion, if I > ever get around to completing it. *grins* By all means. ###### Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Richard Pini Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Message-ID: <110220041842080093%rpini@elfquest.com> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit User-Agent: Thoth/1.6.0 (Carbon/OS X) Lines: 25 Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 23:42:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.199.38.139 X-Complaints-To: abuse@cv.net X-Trace: news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net 1076542929 68.199.38.139 (Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:42:09 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 18:42:09 EST Organization: Optimum Online Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.telebyte.nl!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!news4.srv.hcvlny.cv.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1005 In article , Lexus Godface wrote: > > This is a possibility. Each tribe will be limited to a certain set of > > powers (via backgrounds, possibly). The four-dot rule allows the mage > > to go beyond the limits set by your tribe? > > *rubs chin* The limits set by the tribal splats... okay, I think we need > an official ruling on this. I know that having one's parents have a > magic makes it more likely for the child to pick it up, but I don't know > just how much of tribal magic is hereditary and how much of it is > appropriateness and circumstance. Richard, if you're still lurking - how > easily could, example, a Wolfrider pick up rockshaping if a Mountain elf > deigned to try and teach? Is that a possibility? As much a possibility, in my estimation, as - for example - my "picking up" what's being discussed here... Admittedly, that was a somewhat flippant answer, though it has a basis in truth. The stuff being discussed here goes right over my head the way differential equations did back in my college days. Or the way programming the clock on the VCR persistently eludes certain folks. Wanting to learn something is only part of the equation; there also needs to be - for want of a better term - the inclination, or propensity, which does not in this context refer to heredity. ###### Reply-To: "gmendias" From: "gmendias" Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest References: <110220041842080093%rpini@elfquest.com> Subject: Re: RPG fans... Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.142.169.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.com 1076544593 ST000 66.142.169.46 (Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:09:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 11 Feb 2004 19:09:53 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJSCOPTIRTPXJJIF__TDFRYB@GXLN@GZ_GYO^ZWZUYICD^RAQBKZQTZTX\_I[^G_KGFNON[ZOE_AZNVO^\XGGNTCIRPIJH[@RQKBXLRZ@CD^HKANYVW@RLGEZEJN@\_WZJBNZYYKVIOR]T]MNMG_Z[YVWSCH_Q[GPC_A@CARQVXDSDA^M]@DRVUM@RBM Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 00:09:53 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!newsfeed.vmunix.org!peer02.cox.net!cox.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!927d9265!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1006 If I may help Richard on this one, you all have to remember that the High Ones, before they shaped into elves, basically all had the same powers. Some had a stronger inclination for one type or another but they all had the inherent ability to use them all. So being a mountain elf does not necessarily mean that they should be a rock shaper or even be good at it, the same going for wolfriders, but with them you have to factor in the wolf/mortal blood. When basing anything from the world of Two Moons in a game or whatever, you should base it with what is known from her High One herself Wendy!! "Richard Pini" wrote in message news:110220041842080093%rpini@elfquest.com... > In article , Lexus Godface > wrote: > > > > This is a possibility. Each tribe will be limited to a certain set of > > > powers (via backgrounds, possibly). The four-dot rule allows the mage > > > to go beyond the limits set by your tribe? > > > > *rubs chin* The limits set by the tribal splats... okay, I think we need > > an official ruling on this. I know that having one's parents have a > > magic makes it more likely for the child to pick it up, but I don't know > > just how much of tribal magic is hereditary and how much of it is > > appropriateness and circumstance. Richard, if you're still lurking - how > > easily could, example, a Wolfrider pick up rockshaping if a Mountain elf > > deigned to try and teach? Is that a possibility? > > As much a possibility, in my estimation, as - for example - my "picking > up" what's being discussed here... > > Admittedly, that was a somewhat flippant answer, though it has a basis > in truth. The stuff being discussed here goes right over my head the > way differential equations did back in my college days. Or the way > programming the clock on the VCR persistently eludes certain folks. > Wanting to learn something is only part of the equation; there also > needs to be - for want of a better term - the inclination, or > propensity, which does not in this context refer to heredity. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: <110220041842080093%rpini@elfquest.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 81 Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 07:20:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1076570442 4.5.120.231 (Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:20:42 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Feb 2004 02:20:42 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1007 > how >> > easily could, example, a Wolfrider pick up rockshaping if a >> > Mountain elf deigned to try and teach? Is that a possibility? >> As much a possibility, in my estimation, as - for example - my >> "picking up" what's being discussed here... >> Admittedly, that was a somewhat flippant answer, though it has a >> basis in truth. The stuff being discussed here goes right over my >> head the way differential equations did back in my college days. Or >> the way programming the clock on the VCR persistently eludes certain >> folks. Wanting to learn something is only part of the equation; there >> also needs to be - for want of a better term - the inclination, or >> propensity, which does not in this context refer to heredity. > If I may help Richard on this one, you all have to remember that the > High Ones, before they shaped into elves, basically all had the same > powers. Some had a stronger inclination for one type or another but > they all had the inherent ability to use them all. So being a mountain > elf does not necessarily mean that they should be a rock shaper or > even be good at it, the same going for wolfriders, but with them you > have to factor in the wolf/mortal blood. When basing anything from the > world of Two Moons in a game or whatever, you should base it with what > is known from her High One herself Wendy!! A) Purebreed elves are capable of performing any magic. Maybe they never pick up the knack, maybe they prefer one power over another, but there's no such thing as "cannot". B) In terms of picking up magic, possibly learning new magic: it isn't genetic. Individual elves have aptitudes towards certain magics, which is based more upon inherent inclination than upon background or tutors. Some elves "get it", others don't - as simple as that. Ngh! *scrubs hands over his face* This seems to both suggest that any elf can learn any magic (while Wolfriders aren't purebreed, they're still capable of healing, which is one of the stronger magics out there) and their potential to do so is not only inherent but random. How to justify this...? It also seems to go against Chaosium, which states that a Wolfrider has a better chance of obtaining a power if their parent has it, suggesting there's a hereditary function somewhere in there. I don't have a real problem with contradicting said canon, but given that the Pinis gave it the thumb's-up at the time, it's probably the closest I'm going to come to directly working with them on this. }:D So, in terms of the game system... most tribes are going to come with default merits. Wolfrider: Sending, Wolf Bonding, Magic Feeling. These are "hobbyist" magics, a casual understanding of the power. The magic "disciplines", the five-tier hierarchies for each power, are in-depth understandings that expand considerably what can be done with it. These disciplines are, as of last revision: Sending, Sensitive, Bonding, Shaping (various forms), Healing, Disruption, Levitation, Protection and Firestarting. Wolfriders, by nature, will choose from Sending, Bonding, Shaping: Plant, and Healing. As mentioned above, those three merits are automatic, any Wolfrider will start with them unless they really want to screw their character over. Disciplines, on the other hand, need to be consciously chosen and paid for during character generation. Part of chargen involves Backgrounds, which measure your "place" in the world; whom you know, who knows you and what resources you can draw on in times of need. Real power comes in the form of the Magic background - reflecting their raw magical talent. 0 - minimally able, like many elves. They start with the default merits. 1 - slightly gifted. 2 - moderately able, as some are. 3 - unusually talented, as a minority are. 4 - powerful, as fewer yet are. 5 - incredible, as household names are. Every dot you take in the Magic background enables the character to take that many dots in any discipline. That doesn't mean they automatically start with that magic - they still need to pay for it later on in chargen. But the character has that potential; you need a Magic 5 to reach Healing 5, even if you only start with Healing 1. It's a lot easier to increase Healing 1 to Healing 2 than it is to increase Magic 1 to Magic 2 once the character's been created! When it comes to the disciplines themselves... and this is where it breaks down for me, possibly because I'm half-asleep by now and can't think of something clever. Should the player just choose? Encourage justifying it to the GM, c.f. "yes, explain to me why your Go-Back deserves Astral Projection"? Require them to choose at least one tribal magic first? Make them choose what disciplines they can ever learn, depending on how extensive their Magic background is? Ugh. Maybe I'll think of something before the heat-death of the universe rolls around. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.comics.elfquest Subject: Re: RPG fans... From: Lexus Godface References: <110220041842080093%rpini@elfquest.com> Organization: Your Company Message-ID: User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Lines: 13 Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 06:14:11 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.5.120.231 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc01.gnilink.net 1076652851 4.5.120.231 (Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:14:11 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Feb 2004 01:14:11 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc01.gnilink.net.POSTED!25ce668f!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.comics.elfquest:1008 *having slept* Okay, this seems pretty elegant. Tribes have tendencies towards some disciplines, but there are no hard and fast rules - anyone can take any magic, given elements like "Healing is rare" and "Go-Backs scorn magic". Each dot in the Magic background either unlocks a discipline (and gives an automatic first dot) or adds a dot to an existing discipline, as well as sets the overall dot limit. So someone with Magic 3 could end up with Sending 1, Bonding 1, and Levitation 1 - or Sending 1 and Bonding 2. You can still spend bonus points during chargen (and experience points later) to raise Sending and Bonding higher, but up to a maximum of three dots in each; you need to buy that Magic up higher to allow for more powerful uses. How's that sound?