NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:45:15 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:45:15 -0600 Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-Nau58kZRj+Yq/2p3EsZuxtLR+kw6KnLwbiBJT3b1KPpu4KJzsMT2UNpA8EXp+A7HcgJKYLl/hGYy2uB!YUYX7UG8PMUJ14ZoeWX+r0qdFpBUT4nhcA+BOQgqI9X7Cg8c5ljsODDy6EdA X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166131 Something that strikes me constantly as I read through TLotR again (and when I'm not reading it every day,I'm reading Hobbit or Silmarillion every day) is that the perils they face seem beyond me to survive, not just the total absence of flush toilets! If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the others. Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong hands. If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what would be your most important advice? (Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). Anybody care to speculate? -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: "robert j. kolker" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Message-ID: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.62.143.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s51 1103766523 24.62.143.251 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:48:43 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:48:43 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 01:48:43 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.glorb.com!newsswing.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.net!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s51.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166132 Louis Epstein wrote: > Anybody care to speculate? I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their way through the mines. Also having a street sweeper shotgun at hand would help kick Orc ass.. Bob Kolker ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:21:09 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 20:21:09 -0600 Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-tXyfFQeUiW9eUYF1OOSYQhxVrP9XI32+RLvVYSRcyXLD8YFcWeLq0PjMqt4DWdNOaVO4txbEs4hcy6O!5gVVsKRI7sW2hcRpVysO11iSFlJHRaZjUPgA35bA8cXekyo3cBj/DAUwaVOW X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.vmunix.org!newsfeed.cwix.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166137 In alt.fan.tolkien robert j. kolker wrote: > > > Louis Epstein wrote: > >> >> Anybody care to speculate? > > I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their way > through the mines. Um,not much good without the GPS satellites overhead. > Also having a street sweeper shotgun at hand would > help kick Orc ass.. There are more Orcs than you would be likely to have ammunition... > Bob Kolker -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: "robert j. kolker" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.62.143.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s02 1103769566 24.62.143.251 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:39:26 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:39:26 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:39:26 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s02.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166139 Louis Epstein wrote: > Um,not much good without the GPS satellites overhead. A mere detail. > >> Also having a street sweeper shotgun at hand would help kick Orc >> ass.. > There are more Orcs than you would be likely to have > ammunition... I can carry more shells than Legolas can carry arrows. Bob Kolker ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 19 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:56:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1103770585 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:56:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 02:56:25 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166141 robert j. kolker wrote: > Louis Epstein wrote: >> Um,not much good without the GPS satellites overhead. > A mere detail. What do you think Earendil was, if not a guiding star? If it was good enough for the Numenoreans... >>> Also having a street sweeper shotgun at hand would >>> help kick Orc ass.. >> >> There are more Orcs than you would be likely to have >> ammunition... > > I can carry more shells than Legolas can carry arrows. Legolas can re-use arrows. ###### From: JXStern Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 7 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 03:14:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.62.126.36 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: trnddc09 1103771641 4.62.126.36 (Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:14:01 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 22:14:01 EST Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.glorb.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!trnddc09.POSTED!4fcf30b0!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166142 On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:45:15 -0600, Louis Epstein wrote: I could have carried the keg of miruvor. J. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 22 Dec 2004 23:45:38 -0600 Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 00:44:05 -0500 From: Flame of the West User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> In-Reply-To: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Message-ID: <2O6dnQisB78fxlfcRVn-2Q@comcast.com> Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.49.70.57 X-Trace: sv3-xKV6IXdAQfI6ExHYZudtTRngga+K4nfxXLxAQ6aM/x0A1SEUILJBF62eKtDY80n7JQEouxSX4a7vK2V!OGSOmAYFMRYNeDo3ROO+eJeOJVss0hhuD1Q4bfzFJYVqStBwxQdeU4sm6vc= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166156 robert j. kolker wrote: > I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their > way through the mines. No need. I would have brought a snowmobile so we'd have gotten over Caradhras. That bloody Balrog would still be sleeping today, dreaming of what it would be like to have wings. -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. ###### From: "gp.skinner" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 05:50:30 -0000 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> <2O6dnQisB78fxlfcRVn-2Q@comcast.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 84.67.60.253 X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1103781153 8563 84.67.60.253 (23 Dec 2004 05:52:33 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Dec 2004 05:52:33 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!194.159.246.34.MISMATCH!peer-uk.news.demon.net!kibo.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166161 > > I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their way > > through the mines. > No need. I would have brought a snowmobile so we'd have > gotten over Caradhras. That bloody Balrog would still be > sleeping today, dreaming of what it would be like to > have wings. Snowmobile, ha! I'd have just put the ring in a smart bomb and launched it into Mordor. No need to leave Rivendel at all. Graeme --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.817 / Virus Database: 555 - Release Date: 15/12/2004 ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.76.207 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1103813883 213.101.76.207 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:58:03 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:58:03 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 X-Sender: s-774765@d213-101-76-207.swipnet.se Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:01:42 +0100 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166181 "Louis Epstein" skrev i meddelandet news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... [snip] > If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the > Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into > one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. > > Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped > into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you > certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and > all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong > hands. > > If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what > would be your most important advice? > (Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at > Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). > > Anybody care to speculate? I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but if Bombur was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I would be a worthy memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be much worse. Öjevind ###### From: "dutchie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien, rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 23 Dec 2004 10:06:57 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 9 Message-ID: <1103825217.717066.171000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> NNTP-Posting-Host: 170.146.91.6 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1103825221 18368 127.0.0.1 (23 Dec 2004 18:07:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 18:07:01 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=170.146.91.6; posting-account=nbUI1QwAAAB_pnShPRTQQjPrNYUwpvCK Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166201 robert j. kolker wrote: > I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their way > through the mines. My little Garmin has enough trouble in a heavy forest. I don't think it would pick up a signal in Moria. Unless the satelites in Middle-Earth had a stronger signal than they do here. ###### Reply-To: "Raven" From: "Raven" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:39:05 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.77 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1103847187 195.82.196.77 (Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:13:07 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:13:07 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166235 "Öjevind Lång" skrev i en meddelelse news:%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net... > I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but if Bombur > was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I would be a worthy > memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be much worse. Bombur was fat. Nothing implies that he was physically weak. In the Battle of Five Armies he may have dealt axe-strokes that could rend goblin armour where you and I would make hardly a dent, and with a shield resist blows that would have beaten us down first time. ###### Reply-To: "Raven" From: "Raven" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 20:55:29 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.77 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1103847188 195.82.196.77 (Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:13:08 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 01:13:08 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166236 "Louis Epstein" skrev i en meddelelse news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. It depends on whether I could have taken with me some of our modern technology. If I did not, then at most I might have made some crude black powder bombs that the Fellowship, or I being part of it, could have thrown against enemies. But at least Saruman's orcs would likely have known black powder and therefore at least not been superstitiously frightened of explosions. One such bomb being rolled into the passage outside Balin's tomb with a lit fuse before the door was slammed to would have done quite some useful carnage among the Moria orcs. But with just a few hand grenades, a hunting rifle and a night scope, I could have made a very strong positive contribution. A hand grenade into the water when the Watcher grabbed Frodo, and the underwater explosion would likely have killed it. Then we could have walked into Moria at leisure. With a hunting rifle I could have been effective against enemies in the open - such as the Wargs, which with the night scope I could have espied from a distance in the night. Or I could have discovered the orcs on the east bank of the Anduin before Sarn Gebir with the night scope and warned the others, then perhaps at some distance above the rapids taken potshots at the enemies. And woe betide any Nazgûl on his fell beast that came within thrice Legolas' arrow range. Perhaps with modern rock climbing equipment I could have helped Sam and Frodo scale the Ephel Dúath away from the guarded passes. Gavran. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:48:12 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 14:48:12 -0600 Lines: 52 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-R1hRWXXgnumenHy6ZbB9S7s+0kWJGXPhl6cBTk11yAv7zknDLAU+FMeT7u5jygbTrQxwEJ69Pf+I9mW!WtMq7F4sCaltM9ROrbXwA1SAI3OlwjuI7a7cnYXqW2ouhEpb7GEhabwOPw82 X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166222 In alt.fan.tolkien "?jevind L?ng" wrote: > "Louis Epstein" skrev i meddelandet > news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... > > [snip] > >> If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the >> Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into >> one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. >> I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed >> a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the >> others. >> >> Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped >> into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you >> certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and >> all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong >> hands. >> >> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >> would be your most important advice? >> (Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at >> Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). >> >> Anybody care to speculate? > > I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but if > Bombur was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I would > be a worthy memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be much > worse. > > ?jevind Well,I think the Fellowship would never have made it through Moria if Bombur had been with them...they faced some greater obstacles than Thorin & Co. did! I wonder...could any information provided by someone who had read TLotR being zapped to Rivendell during Oct-Dec 3018 T.A. have resulted in,for example,Theodred surviving? Sauron's military actions don't seem beatable by advance warning, and as for the Scouring of the Shire being made unnecessary that depends on a lot of other things happening first! Some information about Cirith Ungol might be useful, but there seems little latitude for the 10th Walker to make the destruction of the Ring any easier. -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: Huan the hound Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 15:56:12 -0500 Organization: Mediocre; I could really use a filing cabinet around here. Lines: 24 Message-ID: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net O1UEIv8DV7q3iOS06i9EXgs3iZ+juSK28U0DTJczTAA4VzJbCE User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.8 (Macintosh/20040913) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166225 Louis Epstein posted on 12/22/04 8:45 PM: [snip] > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. I couldn't have done it. The Fellowship was carrying gear and walking all day. I'm not in bad physical shape compared to the people I see around me, but I know I couldn't do it. One day I decided to explore the city after work, and my relatively light laptop computer was in my backpack, and I was ready to give in after only three hours of walking. Huan, the hound of Valinor -- Yet at length Draugluin escaped, and fleeing back into the tower he died before Sauron's feet; and as he died he told his master: 'Huan is there!' ###### From: Alexey Romanov Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:02:42 +0300 Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: individual.net AiLTKNO4rBZwJj9QqSiM8QwC54uLxwjv1v2iIwOP7Zi50o2ZkR X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166223 On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:45:15 -0600, Louis Epstein wrote: >Something that strikes me constantly as I read through TLotR again >(and when I'm not reading it every day,I'm reading Hobbit or Silmarillion >every day) is that the perils they face seem beyond me to survive, >not just the total absence of flush toilets! > >If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the >Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into >one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. >I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed >a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the >others. > >Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped >into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you >certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and >all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong >hands. > >If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >would be your most important advice? >(Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at >Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). > >Anybody care to speculate? Get Gandalf to tell how exactly he planned to enter Mordor. Get Glorfindel to go with the Fellowship (who cares if there are more than nine?). Get the Fellowship to set out as soon as possible, hopefully before the High Pass is snowed in. Ensure no one leaves Boromir alone with Frodo. Since Frodo now knows how to get into Mordor, there is no reason to trust Gollum. Unfortunately, this means Fellowship is not separated, and Gollum is not available to destroy the Ring. Saruman captures Rohan, Minas Tirith falls, all die. Oh, the embarassment! ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:00:59 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1103839259 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:00:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:00:59 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!surfnet.nl!news.tudelft.nl!tudelft.nl!feeder1.cambrium.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!news.zanker.org!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166229 Huan the hound wrote: > I was ready to give > in after only three hours of walking. Give yourself a few days to break yourself in. You'll perform better after that. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:06:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1103839587 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:06:27 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 22:06:27 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166230 Louis Epstein wrote: > If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what > would be your most important advice? "Don't kill Gollum." Or to be less subtle: "Don't forget to discard your mail-shirt in Mordor to protect Gollum from that orc-arrow." And why Rivendell? Can't we get zapped back to warn Gandalf about Saruman? ###### From: "aelfwina" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 16:37:56 -0600 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <10smi6ij3k37eaa@corp.supernews.com> References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.glorb.com!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-06!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166231 "Louis Epstein" wrote in message news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... > Anybody care to speculate? LOL! I'd make darn sure my name was *not* Mary Sue. Barbara > > -=-=- > The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, > at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: Yuk Tang Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 23 Dec 2004 23:21:12 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: X-Trace: individual.net bUPEPrgcLABcdKr0adC2Wwbl+xydJIBDrrUff64LI86LkmpHZL User-Agent: Xnews/L5 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166233 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in news:DjHyd.5947$Ar5.5149@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk: > Louis Epstein wrote: > >> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >> would be your most important advice? > > "Don't kill Gollum." Or to be less subtle: "Don't forget to > discard your mail-shirt in Mordor to protect Gollum from that > orc-arrow." > > And why Rivendell? Can't we get zapped back to warn Gandalf about > Saruman? Push Isildur into the lava. That's the thing about Elrond and Cirdan; they may not have had the moral right to take the Ring from Isildur, but they outnumbered him 2-1. -- Cheers, ymt. ###### Message-ID: <41CB62C6.8DBD883F@acm.org> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:28:59 -0500 From: Glenn Holliday Reply-To: holliday@acm.org Organization: What? Me worry? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.199.164.75 X-Trace: dingus.crosslink.net 1103848114 8187 207.199.164.75 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!nntp.newsfirst.net!dingus.crosslink.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166238 Yuk Tang wrote: > > "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in > news:DjHyd.5947$Ar5.5149@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk: > > Louis Epstein wrote: > > > >> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what > >> would be your most important advice? > > > > And why Rivendell? Can't we get zapped back to warn Gandalf about > > Saruman? > > Push Isildur into the lava. Don't trust Melkor. -- Glenn Holliday holliday@acm.org ###### Message-ID: <41CB63B3.683394C@acm.org> Date: Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:32:56 -0500 From: Glenn Holliday Reply-To: holliday@acm.org Organization: What? Me worry? X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.199.164.75 X-Trace: dingus.crosslink.net 1103848352 8188 207.199.164.75 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.newsfirst.net!dingus.crosslink.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166239 Louis Epstein wrote: > > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. If that annoying fool of a Took can make it, then so can I... > If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what > would be your most important advice? The presence of the Balrog. The palantir network. Current preparations and plans of Saruman and Denethor. Find a way to keep Boromir from falling to the Ring. Keep Pippin sitting on his hands at wells. -- Glenn Holliday holliday@acm.org ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:08:31 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 15 Message-ID: <41cc1480.2237858@news.hispeed.ch> References: <41CB63B3.683394C@acm.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-140-70.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1103893790 5665 80.218.140.70 (24 Dec 2004 13:09:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 13:09:50 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166260 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:32:56 -0500, Glenn Holliday wrote: >Louis Epstein wrote: >> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >> would be your most important advice? >Keep Pippin sitting >on his hands at wells. But if Gandalf doesn't fall then the Balrog may have emerged at a later, more deadly stage of events. And Gandalf would not have attained his White guise. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:19:49 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:19:49 -0600 Lines: 48 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-HNDQzwJJkVQhmn8GHBTzMGj4UAtO1ocKmW8Ye27Q9WoivpsBXPimxIAl2tUI6GaOmjv14lsnaQYPBfn!OFaq8K6u8ygsq7AMRV+Juw2lbchQ/R/Xp54s353E7iO5urkYoDU3BTzcZmIj X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166274 In alt.fan.tolkien Raven wrote: > "Louis Epstein" skrev i en meddelelse > news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... > >> I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed >> a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the >> others. > > It depends on whether I could have taken with me some of our modern > technology. If I did not, then at most I might have made some crude black > powder bombs that the Fellowship, or I being part of it, could have thrown > against enemies. But at least Saruman's orcs would likely have known > black powder and therefore at least not been superstitiously frightened of > explosions. One such bomb being rolled into the passage outside Balin's > tomb with a lit fuse before the door was slammed to would have done quite > some useful carnage among the Moria orcs. > But with just a few hand grenades, a hunting rifle and a night scope, I > could have made a very strong positive contribution. A hand grenade into > the water when the Watcher grabbed Frodo, and the underwater explosion > would likely have killed it. WHEN the Watcher grabbed Frodo? You'd deliberately wait for him to get into danger? If you had explosive charges ready,I'd say the way to take care of the Watcher would be to blow up the dam,if the concussion didn't knock it out it would be left high and dry. > Then we could have walked into Moria at leisure. > With a hunting rifle I could have been effective against enemies in the > open - such as the Wargs, which with the night scope I could have espied > from a distance in the night. Or I could have discovered the orcs on the > east bank of the Anduin before Sarn Gebir with the night scope and warned > the others, then perhaps at some distance above the rapids taken potshots > at the enemies. And woe betide any Nazg?l on his fell beast that came > within thrice Legolas' arrow range. Do you know his arrow range compared to a rifle's? Remember,he sees things 15 miles away... > Perhaps with modern rock climbing equipment I could have helped Sam and > Frodo scale the Ephel D?ath away from the guarded passes. > > Gavran. -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:29 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <41CB63B3.683394C@acm.org> <41cc1480.2237858@news.hispeed.ch> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 14:23:29 -0600 Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-x1aCbkNS4RAeYvlOkJamCa0cQegv8hrBrmPgCvFlLI6K/pITK3OHhqrOOYclOEE9lZNpO51RhEH/+XD!9YLsDX1MUbChHx6h9HDLY1H81ErJAr7XspJJxO18kKXnk8H8zK1SL+HPsxcs X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166275 In alt.fan.tolkien CleV wrote: > On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:32:56 -0500, Glenn Holliday > wrote: > >>Louis Epstein wrote: > >>> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >>> would be your most important advice? > >>Keep Pippin sitting >>on his hands at wells. > > But if Gandalf doesn't fall then the Balrog may have emerged at a > later, more deadly stage of events. The Balrog had stayed in Moria a thousand years since it awakened. (Hmmm...if the Balrog got the One Ring...) > And Gandalf would not have attained his White guise. -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 15:21:05 -0600 From: "The American" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:26:10 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: 69.174.201.194 X-Trace: sv3-s4KgrqBj2BzHBURZD5HCC1rodGnCf45RPOd65X5gI35loGOkjib4+EaXeOkbQFQOU5N1/4y9PLpiOSn!ZIGdpireg2iSYhIC1oG8OMvkZUSCGMKjZjZ+/N7aaDfxvmljtQZmpms47Jb5MCCf6IPv/UMws7zK!daKozK0/VMqkFpa/+qA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@adelphia.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: copyright@adelphia.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.adelphia.com!news.adelphia.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166276 > > Anybody care to speculate? > I would have shown up wearing a red shirt and been killed by a Warg in Hollian. :o) T.A. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 02:23:51 -0600 From: R. Dan Henry Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 00:23:53 -0800 Message-ID: References: <41CB62C6.8DBD883F@acm.org> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.25.51.245 X-Trace: sv3-fCDvQ3Hykxdd2+GmbpdPaGB2X4YUIh76/ScR9TTrXPfdUavgq+GKjB7ntQFUi7Wp6j/pwRctelv1rV+!CLoaiTRnQv/nq/AASnB5VMauwtZJvUSJY4XEhWp1nFvo4gwXxxD4FKrSvZtdtseSRG6lJNSp2ho2!YmB23y2Oa5qvHyRpKMzArR8= X-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.inreach.com!news.inreach.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166280 On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 19:28:59 -0500, Glenn Holliday wrote: >Yuk Tang wrote: >> >> "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in >> news:DjHyd.5947$Ar5.5149@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk: >> > Louis Epstein wrote: >> > >> >> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >> >> would be your most important advice? >> > >> > And why Rivendell? Can't we get zapped back to warn Gandalf about >> > Saruman? >> >> Push Isildur into the lava. > >Don't trust Melkor. Hand out sheet music before the big sing-along. R. Dan Henry danhenry@inreach.com ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 05:20:58 -0600 From: R. Dan Henry Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2004 03:21:00 -0800 Message-ID: <1feps0tnl8tbqrc0o98j39d0d7niceocbq@4ax.com> References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> <1103825217.717066.171000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.25.51.245 X-Trace: sv3-VsITFttO3VYsVEOEsTanDQGftlYN65VxGRA28/67EOiYcc7A5NRmCheirp6R6wj4uFvjimDALKz4nQI!CMEoXUHJozuth4oU7HBwGzE/KivU0aASYTGKWtOzETL2LKEyS6Cmc4sGpU2OP4yzYqayj1WRNUN2!gNn25Mp7eA1EMuuYMS1sFu4= X-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.inreach.com!news.inreach.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166284 On 23 Dec 2004 10:06:57 -0800, "dutchie" wrote: > >robert j. kolker wrote: >> I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their >way >> through the mines. >My little Garmin has enough trouble in a heavy forest. I don't think >it would pick up a signal in Moria. Unless the satelites in >Middle-Earth had a stronger signal than they do here. And what the heck good would it do if it *did* work? What they needed was a map. A GPS device won't tell you where a given passage is going to lead to, which was the main question at each decision point. Heading in general the right direction was within Gandalf's powers without and techno-gadgets. As for being the 10th Walker, I'd be terribly afraid I'd let something slip of my "foreknowledge" and ruin things. I think I'd excuse myself and head to the Shire and see if I couldn't help arrange a more pleasant homecoming for the returning hobbits. R. Dan Henry danhenry@inreach.com ###### From: "The Man With No Name" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 01:50:46 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <41cecfc2$0$1124$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.164.6.168 X-Trace: 1104072643 1124 203.164.6.168 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166305 "Louis Epstein" wrote in message news:E4idnfyOoMu2vlfcRVn-hw@fcc.net... > Anybody care to speculate? Take the ring for myself and use it to cover all the lands in a second darkness. (The general consensus among my friends is that I could easily out-evil Sauron.) Another possibility - I would have offered numerous 'witty' asides, ("Hey Ringwraiths! Wraith this!") before, doubtless, being summarily tortured and thrown into the chasm of Khaza-Dum by an increasingly irritated Fellowship. Incidentally, Louis' tagline reminded me of another that I haven't seen on the newsgroups for a while. "Baradür must rise, at least as high as before. Or else Frodo has triumphed." Whoever said that; I found it quite amusing (I'm assuming it was just a whimsically nonsensical bit of parody, and not a serious attempt to compare America with the land of Mordor.) ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:25:24 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.29 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104074501 213.101.77.29 (Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:21:41 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:21:41 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166306 "Raven" skrev i meddelandet news:naJyd.299$g%.51@news.get2net.dk... > "Öjevind Lång" skrev i en meddelelse > news:%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net... > > > I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but if Bombur > > was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I would be a worthy > > memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be much worse. > > Bombur was fat. Nothing implies that he was physically weak. In the > Battle of Five Armies he may have dealt axe-strokes that could rend goblin > armour where you and I would make hardly a dent, and with a shield resist > blows that would have beaten us down first time. Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for Bombur. Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:29:01 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.29 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104074718 213.101.77.29 (Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:25:18 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:25:18 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166307 "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet news:330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net... [snip] > The Fellowship was carrying gear and walking all day. However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though winter was approaching. Öjevind ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:55:47 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%tpyd.620185$D%.334497@attbi_s51> <1103825217.717066.171000@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> <1feps0tnl8tbqrc0o98j39d0d7niceocbq@4ax.com> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:55:47 -0600 Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-NRzX5P0KE3CAGWLOkWYGcU6q8D3cw6AqLPhXy33k7vkJsBnZHmIni+R/Qw30Nc6+9bPqH7uzfEye5yQ!PNER/Y8YmrhTxWIZllYIWXWgKhfVkXbgnf8S4OmCCbFxOndudANaOEUrnPXv X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!in.100proofnews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166313 In alt.fan.tolkien R. Dan Henry wrote: > On 23 Dec 2004 10:06:57 -0800, "dutchie" wrote: > >> >>robert j. kolker wrote: >>> I would have brought along a GPS device and help the Nine find their >>> way through the mines. >>My little Garmin has enough trouble in a heavy forest. I don't think >>it would pick up a signal in Moria. Unless the satelites in >>Middle-Earth had a stronger signal than they do here. > > And what the heck good would it do if it *did* work? What they needed > was a map. A GPS device won't tell you where a given passage is going > to lead to, which was the main question at each decision point. > Heading in general the right direction was within Gandalf's powers > without and techno-gadgets. > > As for being the 10th Walker, I'd be terribly afraid I'd let something > slip of my "foreknowledge" and ruin things. I think I'd excuse myself > and head to the Shire and see if I couldn't help arrange a more > pleasant homecoming for the returning hobbits. I expect your "foreknowledge" would be the reason they'd want you around...and to make sure you never fell into the hands of Sauron. -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 10:08:16 -0800 Organization: None to Speak Of Message-ID: References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 20 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!easynet-monga!easynet.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-12!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166316 On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:29:01 +0100, "Öjevind Lång" wrote: >"Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet >news:330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net... > >[snip] > >> The Fellowship was carrying gear and walking all day. > >However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though winter was >approaching. > Wadeslav Wysninchski was NOT available! the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- I don't have a solution, but I admire the problem ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:36:05 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 30 Message-ID: <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-141-20.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1104089845 14860 80.218.141.20 (26 Dec 2004 19:37:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 19:37:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166326 On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:25:24 +0100, "Öjevind Lång" wrote: >"Raven" skrev i meddelandet >news:naJyd.299$g%.51@news.get2net.dk... >> "Öjevind Lång" skrev i en meddelelse >> news:%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net... >> > I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but if >Bombur >> > was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I would be a >worthy >> > memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be much worse. >> Bombur was fat. Nothing implies that he was physically weak. In the >> Battle of Five Armies he may have dealt axe-strokes that could rend goblin >> armour where you and I would make hardly a dent, and with a shield resist >> blows that would have beaten us down first time. >Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the >Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. > Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a >descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for >Bombur. Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! ###### Reply-To: "Raven" From: "Raven" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 65 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:05:24 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.103 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1104092204 195.82.196.103 (Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:16:44 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:16:44 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed2.ip.tiscali.net!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166328 "Louis Epstein" skrev i en meddelelse news:t4GdnSMJ8oh45FHcRVn-pA@fcc.net... > In alt.fan.tolkien Raven > wrote: > > But with just a few hand grenades, a hunting rifle and a night scope, > > I could have made a very strong positive contribution. A hand > > grenade into the water when the Watcher grabbed Frodo, and > > the underwater explosion would likely have killed it. > WHEN the Watcher grabbed Frodo? > You'd deliberately wait for him to get into danger? Now you assume that I have both modern weaponry and 20/20 knowledge of the Quest. If I had been in Rivendell with 20/20 knowledge of the Quest I would, as others have suggested, had sat tightly on my hands. The events leading to the destruction of the Ring included a series of hair's-breadth escapes. *Any* meddling by someone of less than Eru's wisdom would almost certainly have led to disaster - unless Eru stood ready to bail Frodo and the Quest out 24/7, and unless the meddling included the use of such massive force that Sauron and his armies could be beaten down and a road for Frodo to Sammath Naur forced with tanks, artillery, B-52s and a thousand infantrymen. > If you had explosive charges ready,I'd say the way to take > care of the Watcher would be to blow up the dam,if the concussion > didn't knock it out it would be left high and dry. That might require more explosives than the Fellowship could have carried without less than a whole mule train. We are not told what nature the dam is, an arc dam like most modern dams or a gravity dam which relies on its own bulk and weight to keep from being flushed away by the pressure of the water. The latter would be more likely; it seems more in keeping with the description that we are given. Then the dam would consist of thousands of tonnes of boulders, rocks and gravel, perhaps with this mass shoring up a watertight wall. You don't blow something like that up with a hundred kilograms of C-4. An arc dam is much thinner, since it relies on carefully calculated transfer of loads from the water to the bulk of the walls of the valley that the dam is built in. The RAF were able to break some German dams during WWII by throwing bombs into the water just behind the dam, but they were very large bombs. Perhaps the dam had been built just strong enough to hold back the water at its highest level, in which case even a small extra load, such as the shock from an underwater explosion, would be enough to break that camel's back. But we know that the water had subsided somewhat when the Fellowship passed it, or they would not have found a road. > > And woe betide any Nazgûl on his fell beast that came > > within thrice Legolas' arrow range. > Do you know his arrow range compared to a rifle's? > Remember,he sees things 15 miles away... I can see things hundreds of lightyears away, on a starry night - as could he, presuming the stars that he saw were our kind, and not the kind sown by hand by Elentari. I read on this NG that the longest recorded arrow-shot spanned half a mile or somewhat more. This does not mean that you can accurately hit and kill a foe at that distance. There are rifles that are said to be able to blow the brains out of a sparrow at 1500 meters. Worked by a sufficiently skilled sniper, presumably --- Harvan. ###### From: Huan the hound Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 26 Dec 2004 20:05:51 GMT Lines: 21 Message-ID: <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net VGwxYEoiT9URrq2Zkx+BJQEQXQR1wXUp1l6vj8FJGCfsenRpJD User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (Darwin) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166327 On 2004-12-26, Öjevind Lång wrote in : > "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet > news:330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net... > > [snip] > >> The Fellowship was carrying gear and walking all day. > > However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though winter was > approaching. Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to Caradhras. I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going down on the other side would be scary; it's easy to get injured going downhill on cross-country skis. Hmm, it's a beautiful day, I'd better go skiing now! -- Huan, the hound of Valinor ###### From: "Gary" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien, rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 26 Dec 2004 18:08:19 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 46 Message-ID: <1104113299.270753.31180@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.48.58.85 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1104113303 19602 127.0.0.1 (27 Dec 2004 02:08:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 27 Dec 2004 02:08:23 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=68.48.58.85; posting-account=pCWr-wwAAAC6yt_NBXOG7Aqx9Bh2VIOD Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166339 Louis Epstein wrote: > Something that strikes me constantly as I read through TLotR again > (and when I'm not reading it every day,I'm reading Hobbit or Silmarillion > every day) is that the perils they face seem beyond me to survive, > not just the total absence of flush toilets! > > If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the > Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into > one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. > > Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped > into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you > certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and > all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong > hands. > > If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what > would be your most important advice? > (Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at > Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). > > Anybody care to speculate? > > -=-=- > The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, > at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. All: I have thought of this and wondered how I might have done on the endless stair, for one. My conclusion was that I never had the physical skills (not even when I was doing my airborne training) and would have not been able to keep up. But what I really like to think about is what my former unit (The First Infantry Division) as were were configured in Vietnam might have done if deployed in Gondor and allowed to attack Mordor. I also assume the same level of support we had - such as Arclight B52 strikes at will. I would be wiling to go back into the field with the First MID again to see that happen. ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:02:25 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.205 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104245918 213.101.77.205 (Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:58:38 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:58:38 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166419 "CleV" skrev i meddelandet [snip] > > Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a > >descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for > >Bombur. > > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! > Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to > bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one > side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! Was Andrew Lang a relative too? Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:04:12 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.205 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104246025 213.101.77.205 (Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:00:25 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:00:25 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166420 "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet news:338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net... [snip] > > However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though winter was > > approaching. > > Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to Caradhras. > I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going down on the other side > would be scary; it's easy to get injured going downhill on cross-country > skis. Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with you. > Hmm, it's a beautiful day, I'd better go skiing now! Have fun! :-) Öjevind ###### From: TT Arvind Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:51:06 -0000 Organization: Ents for the Great Teuncitarian Revolution Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> X-Trace: individual.net AwOlXXsb9T5bzuDsKhft2QCb03BNPvKskkHD6dpDij6tVx/Rt1 X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-News-Feed: Purina(TM) Dried Posts X-Ray-Glasses: Activated X-Files: Is a stupid waste of time Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166425 Wes ðu CleV hal! > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! Well, "lesser known" according to some definitions, maybe. For obvious reasons, he's one of the better known historical figures in South Asia and that's 1.5 billion people we're talking about. -- First Law of Bicycling: No matter which way you ride, it's uphill and against the wind. ###### From: Yuk Tang Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 28 Dec 2004 16:38:15 GMT Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> X-Trace: individual.net xEhbuRUt7hNb+du746jgNAMfhbVr9k0k0/YFT3Mk44vEdYarmr User-Agent: Xnews/L5 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166429 "Öjevind Lång" wrote in news:dyeAd.7757$Of5.5349@nntpserver.swip.net: > "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet > news:338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net... > > [snip] > >> > However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though >> > winter was approaching. >> >> Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to >> Caradhras. I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going >> down on the other side would be scary; it's easy to get injured >> going downhill on cross-country skis. > > Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with > you. Jette would get jealous. -- Cheers, ymt. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 09:57:24 -0800 Organization: None to Speak Of Message-ID: <9d73t0pmmtunfqm461074n2h79i81bbhe8@4ax.com> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 14 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.ip-plus.net!newsfeed.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.hanau.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166431 On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:02:25 +0100, "Öjevind Lång" wrote: >Was Andrew Lang a relative too? > >Öjevind > Gee! Are you related to Timur Lang? the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "Five-second fuses only last three seconds." - Infantry Journal ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:15:52 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 12 Message-ID: <41d1ccf2.1333902@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-140-237.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1104268633 15423 80.218.140.237 (28 Dec 2004 21:17:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 21:17:13 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166442 On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 15:51:06 -0000, TT Arvind wrote: >Wes ðu CleV hal! >> Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! >Well, "lesser known" according to some definitions, maybe. For obvious >reasons, he's one of the better known historical figures in South Asia >and that's 1.5 billion people we're talking about. Okay, I stand corrected :-) ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:09:46 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 22:09:46 -0600 Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-Ggx6QluSl2g8RUjWJdkt+5U+YBBhL6Q7zHTBingFmMuIb/vl2Vz4uhsjlenajfOHMvrEPMImxc0SQ/3!BLwdKZ8+1AwGwEL3XujpkVJf8gCQ+85e5MipUEKerWF8u+WJZoIaLc7fw02A X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.tiscali.ch!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166458 In alt.fan.tolkien CleV wrote: > On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 16:25:24 +0100, "?jevind L?ng" > wrote: > >>"Raven" skrev i meddelandet >>news:naJyd.299$g%.51@news.get2net.dk... > >>> "?jevind L?ng" skrev i en meddelelse >>> news:%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net... > >>> > I wouldn't much *enjoy* participating in such an expedition, but >>> > if Bombur was considered worthy to go to Mount Erebor, I suppose I >>> > would be a worthy memer of a Middle-earth quest too. I couldn't be >>> > much worse. > >>> Bombur was fat. Nothing implies that he was physically weak. In the >>> Battle of Five Armies he may have dealt axe-strokes that could rend goblin >>> armour where you and I would make hardly a dent, and with a shield resist >>> blows that would have beaten us down first time. > >>Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the >>Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. >> Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a >>descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for >>Bombur. > > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! > Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to > bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one > side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! I can't believe Babar was descended from the Dwarves! I'm sure one of the de Brunhoffs would have told us by now! -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <9d73t0pmmtunfqm461074n2h79i81bbhe8@4ax.com> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:31:15 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.75.65 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104334049 213.101.75.65 (Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:27:29 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:27:29 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsgate.cistron.nl!feeder1.cambrium.nl!feed.tweaknews.nl!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166474 "the softrat" skrev i meddelandet news:9d73t0pmmtunfqm461074n2h79i81bbhe8@4ax.com... > On Tue, 28 Dec 2004 16:02:25 +0100, "Öjevind Lång" > wrote: > > >Was Andrew Lang a relative too? > > > >Öjevind > > > Gee! Are you related to Timur Lang? That's a collateral branch. Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:32:23 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.75.65 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104334118 213.101.75.65 (Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:28:38 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:28:38 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!npeer.de.kpn-eurorings.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166475 "Louis Epstein" skrev i meddelandet news:aZGdnYnN2JKXs0_cRVn-2Q@fcc.net... [snip] > >>Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the > >>Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. > >> Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a > >>descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for > >>Bombur. > > > > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! > > Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to > > bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one > > side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! > > I can't believe Babar was descended from the Dwarves! > > I'm sure one of the de Brunhoffs would have told us by now! Bombur was fat. So is Babar. (It bet Babur was too.) Do you refuse to acknowledge the obvious inference to draw? Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 27 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:33:09 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.75.65 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104334164 213.101.75.65 (Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:29:24 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 16:29:24 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166476 "Yuk Tang" skrev i meddelandet news:Xns95CDA94223AE4jimlaker2yahoocom@130.133.1.4... > "Öjevind Lång" wrote in > news:dyeAd.7757$Of5.5349@nntpserver.swip.net: > > "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet > > news:338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net... > > > > [snip] > > > >> > However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though > >> > winter was approaching. > >> > >> Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to > >> Caradhras. I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going > >> down on the other side would be scary; it's easy to get injured > >> going downhill on cross-country skis. > > > > Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with > > you. > > Jette would get jealous. Aragorn could take her on *his* back. Öjevind ###### From: "Jette Goldie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <%ABAd.625$1c.218@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:13:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.41.77.252 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104340411 82.41.77.252 (Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:13:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 17:13:31 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166486 "Öjevind Lång" wrote in message news:o3AAd.8036$Of5.5733@nntpserver.swip.net... > "Yuk Tang" skrev i meddelandet > news:Xns95CDA94223AE4jimlaker2yahoocom@130.133.1.4... > > "Öjevind Lång" wrote in > > news:dyeAd.7757$Of5.5349@nntpserver.swip.net: > > > "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet > > > news:338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net... > > > > > > [snip] > > > > > >> > However, they lacked the brains to bring skis even though > > >> > winter was approaching. > > >> > > >> Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to > > >> Caradhras. I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going > > >> down on the other side would be scary; it's easy to get injured > > >> going downhill on cross-country skis. > > > > > > Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with > > > you. > > > > Jette would get jealous. > > Aragorn could take her on *his* back. Choices, choices ;-) -- Jette Goldie jette@blueyonder.co.uk Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <41CB62C6.8DBD883F@acm.org> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 24 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <6PHAd.913$1c.74@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:18:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104365890 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:18:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:18:10 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166522 R. Dan Henry wrote: > Glenn Holliday wrote: >> Yuk Tang wrote: >>> "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote: >>>> Louis Epstein wrote: >>>> >>>>> If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >>>>> would be your most important advice? >>>> >>>> And why Rivendell? Can't we get zapped back to warn Gandalf >>>> about Saruman? >>> >>> Push Isildur into the lava. >> >> Don't trust Melkor. > > Hand out sheet music before the big sing-along. ROTFL! How about: Don't leave a blank piece of paper in that exam someone took... [Didn't have the heart to try and undo 'The Silmarillion'] ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 9 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <5SHAd.917$1c.778@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:21:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104366081 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:21:21 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:21:21 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!news.wiretrip.org!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166524 Öjevind Lång wrote: > Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the > Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. Um. Celeborn? ... Oh! LOL! ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:23:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104366226 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:23:46 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:23:46 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166525 TT Arvind wrote: > Wes ðu CleV hal! > >> Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! > > Well, "lesser known" according to some definitions, maybe. For > obvious reasons, he's one of the better known historical figures in > South Asia and that's 1.5 billion people we're talking about. Um. My historical education must have been lacking. I've only heard of the children's elephant character: Babur the Elephant (or was it Babar or Barbar?). Anyway, I wonder if there is any link with the names here? ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 11 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104366281 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:41 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166526 CleV wrote: > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! > Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to > bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one > side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! Timur Lang? Who?? ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:35:12 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 15 Message-ID: <41d34d2d.19307622@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-141-162.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1104366992 22072 80.218.141.162 (30 Dec 2004 00:36:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:36:32 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166527 On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:41 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote: >CleV wrote: > >> Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! >> Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to >> bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one >> side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! >Timur Lang? Who?? Known in Europe as Tamburlane. ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:36:03 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 18 Message-ID: <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-141-162.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1104367043 22072 80.218.141.162 (30 Dec 2004 00:37:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:37:23 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166528 On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:23:46 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote: >TT Arvind wrote: >> Wes ðu CleV hal! >>> Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! >> Well, "lesser known" according to some definitions, maybe. For >> obvious reasons, he's one of the better known historical figures in >> South Asia and that's 1.5 billion people we're talking about. >Um. My historical education must have been lacking. I've only heard of >the children's elephant character: Babur the Elephant (or was it Babar >or Barbar?). Anyway, I wonder if there is any link with the names here? Hence "lesser known" :-) (No idea about Babar's connection, if any.) ###### Message-ID: <41D3A3F8.7469BEDE@yahoo-dot.ca> From: Odysseus X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 (Macintosh; U; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en,en-GB,fr-CA,fr,fr-FR,en-US MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d2d.19307622@news.hispeed.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 06:45:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.166.231.142 X-Trace: edtnps89 1104389109 198.166.231.142 (Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:45:09 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 29 Dec 2004 23:45:09 MST Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.glorb.com!newsfeed2.telusplanet.net!newsfeed.telus.net!edtnps89.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166537 CleV wrote: > > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:24:41 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer" > wrote: > > >Timur Lang? Who?? > > Known in Europe as Tamburlane. And variously spelt at that. -- Odysseus ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d2d.19307622@news.hispeed.ch> <41D3A3F8.7469BEDE@yahoo-dot.ca> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <8UQAd.8302$Of5.5832@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:41:43 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.202 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104403076 213.101.77.202 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:37:56 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:37:56 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166550 "Odysseus" skrev i meddelandet news:41D3A3F8.7469BEDE@yahoo-dot.ca... [snip] > > >Timur Lang? Who?? > > > > Known in Europe as Tamburlane. > > And variously spelt at that. As Tamerlane or Tamerlan, for example. The Swedish spelling is Timur-lenk, which I think is rather neat. The name *does* mean "Timur the lame", it seems. I wonder of there is a connection between "lenk" and the English "to limp", Swedish "linka". Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <5SHAd.917$1c.778@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:42:49 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.77.202 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104403142 213.101.77.202 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:39:02 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:39:02 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166551 "Christopher Kreuzer" skrev i meddelandet news:5SHAd.917$1c.778@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk... [snip] > > Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the > > Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. > > Um. Celeborn? ... Oh! LOL! Do you doubt that Bombur was at least as clever as Celeborn? Öjevind ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <5SHAd.917$1c.778@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 13 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:11:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104405110 82.43.126.28 (Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:11:50 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 11:11:50 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166558 Öjevind Lång wrote: > Do you doubt that Bombur was at least as clever as Celeborn? I doubt that Celeborn was wiser than Bombur. What was that description of Bombur in LotR? "Bombur was now so fat that he could not move himself from his couch to his chair at table, and it took six young dwarves to lift him." (Many Meetings). :-) ###### From: TT Arvind Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 13:53:23 -0000 Organization: Ents for the Great Teuncitarian Revolution Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> X-Trace: individual.net 8AJ7O69KvklHty/PHeC7PwC+KzsM6W1OxMtHwR9AVEhNoea3Zn X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-News-Feed: Purina(TM) Dried Posts X-Ray-Glasses: Activated X-Files: Is a stupid waste of time Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166576 Wes ðu Christopher Kreuzer hal! > Um. My historical education must have been lacking. I've only heard of > the children's elephant character: Babur the Elephant (or was it Babar > or Barbar?). Anyway, I wonder if there is any link with the names here? Babar was the first of the Great Mughals, the founder of the imperial Mughal dynasty that ruled most of northern India for several hundred years until the British took over. He played a rather important role in the history of South and Central Asia, so he's as well known there as, say, Louis XIV of France is in Europe. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 17:01:18 -0800 Organization: None to Speak Of Message-ID: References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 2.0/32.652 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 17 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166604 On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:36:03 GMT, in alt.fan.tolkien clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) wrote: > >Hence "lesser known" :-) (No idea about Babar's connection, if any.) Unfortunately the standard education practices of the North Atlantic sphere are woefully lacking in the historical luminaries of the rest of the world. If you think that your historical education was lacking in information about Asia, what did you learn about Africa or Latin America? the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you. ###### From: "TeaLady (Mari C.)" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 31 Dec 2004 01:40:24 GMT Organization: Lint Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> X-Trace: individual.net 14eAlqM4S9udQ/PaFAHm/w4znT/1d4n+Dd6AYXQrwleF+NopgD User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 x-face: 8S?dQ)V'hP@.Lf3Ot.sv"e+zw7tDI4*y7F3ySvbXP%qrfyUVyXTSovH~=C}5]"*4K`e4q_@ ]OG'MH[A!iPTo6O:Ru:FUr,R6|%`H^>U:F)MjpAS&{^3A/Mq=/0ewP)VoUj7E^)Ilg`n%{z=R0d88: O{^)NYf]Ys.D#w`R':o+%gkH,f.bZyYp]`)+}?f8$&{,Gz@z9ou=N]Z}o0CI]q&n\\kz/Op@\cg15@S[z&bb'f`2T,a> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166614 the softrat wrote in news:a399t0pnbguqf1jskes0t9t6kucgmkc5c0@4ax.com: > On Thu, 30 Dec 2004 00:36:03 GMT, in alt.fan.tolkien > clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) wrote: >> >>Hence "lesser known" :-) (No idea about Babar's connection, >>if any.) > > Unfortunately the standard education practices of the North > Atlantic sphere are woefully lacking in the historical > luminaries of the rest of the world. If you think that your > historical education was lacking in information about Asia, > what did you learn about Africa or Latin America? > Africa was owned by the British, mostly, and even more so after they won a war against really tall black-skinned warriors who were fire-power challenged, having only spears and wooden shields -vs- guns and funny hats (and yet, those natives' descendants went on in later years to take over USAn basketball and make enough money to buy the Brits out, if they wanted). Kinda like India, but the hats weren't that funny, and there were fewer mosquitos (but lots more flies). Latin America is where the Spanish killed anyone who wouldn't learn to say the Mass in Latin, which was almost everyone. Oh, and where the streets were lined with gold, but the sneaky natives hid it all in temples and caves that we still can't find, and if we do, are cursed with nasties worse than the Egyptians (who aren't african, but nile-ist) ever came up with, especially chupacabras, which really only eat people who speak Latin. -- TeaLady (mari) "I keep telling you, chew with your mouth closed!" Kell the coach offers advice on keeping that elusive prey caught. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:57:23 -0600 From: Louis Epstein Reply-To: le@put.com Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> User-Agent: tin/1.6.2-20030910 ("Pabbay") (UNIX) (Linux/2.4.21 (i686)) Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Dec 2004 20:57:23 -0600 Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.250.0.6 X-Trace: sv3-vd7102WwSoXysuIkX7rnSfh66kBBf2Xjp0HUiOZPwyO6jet55raijUL0ig32P2VqeWjfkQKIWzNmjK3!WcJkWng/G3MSpw3NGtBO0uC674atQy0jEwFeHCO6khuNYuGLlHc1FlMVJYGr X-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@fcc.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed7!newsfeed.cwix.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.fcc.net!news.fcc.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166620 In alt.fan.tolkien "?jevind L?ng" wrote: > "Louis Epstein" skrev i meddelandet > news:aZGdnYnN2JKXs0_cRVn-2Q@fcc.net... > > [snip] > >> >>Bombur may have been strong, but I am smart. I would have advised the >> >>Fellowship that they needed boats to go down the Anduin to Gondor. >> >> Incidentally, is it true that Babur, the first Great Mogul, was a >> >>descendant of Bombur and a woman from Khand? He was clearly named for >> >>Bombur. >> > >> > Ah, Babur of Kabul! My favourite "lesser known" historical figure! >> > Don't ask me why - perhaps just the power of his descent (as with, to >> > bring this back on-topic, the descent of Earendel and Elwing) on one >> > side fom Genghis Khan and on the other side from Timur Lang! >> >> I can't believe Babar was descended from the Dwarves! >> >> I'm sure one of the de Brunhoffs would have told us by now! > > Bombur was fat. So is Babar. (It bet Babur was too.) Do you refuse to > acknowledge the obvious inference to draw? But Pom,Flora,and Alexander all have distinctive names... not nearly as similar as Bofur and Bombur's! There would have been a tradition of family nomenclature. -=-=- The World Trade Center towers MUST rise again, at least as tall as before...or terror has triumphed. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 41 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: <409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:31:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.126.28 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: text.news.blueyonder.co.uk 1104485504 82.43.126.28 (Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:31:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:31:44 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!border1.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!pe2.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!pe1.news.blueyonder.co.uk!blueyonder!text.news.blueyonder.co.uk!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166627 TeaLady (Mari C.) wrote: > the softrat wrote: >> Unfortunately the standard education practices of the North >> Atlantic sphere are woefully lacking in the historical >> luminaries of the rest of the world. If you think that your >> historical education was lacking in information about Asia, >> what did you learn about Africa or Latin America? > > Africa was owned by the British, mostly > Latin America is where the Spanish killed anyone who wouldn't > learn to say the Mass in Latin I realise you were being sarcastic, but how much of the pre-colonial history gets taught at school? How much is taught about the history of North and South America, and Asia and Africa and the Pacific region, before the Europeans arrived? I had to learn all that later (and still have big chunks of history missing). I got most of what I know about Central Asia from a very interesting travel documentary on TV. The rest is from 'The Times Compact Atlas of World History'... The trouble is that there is just so _much_ history! Is there any source that attempts to cover _all_ of world history in a large amount of detail? The best place I've found is various websites and online encyclopedias, such as wikipedia (though that is sometimes not reliable). Christopher -- --- Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:00:58 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 40 Message-ID: <41d55b47.2770427@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> <409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-136-3.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1104501740 17566 80.218.136.3 (31 Dec 2004 14:02:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 14:02:20 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166638 On Fri, 31 Dec 2004 09:31:44 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote: >TeaLady (Mari C.) wrote: >> the softrat wrote: >>> Unfortunately the standard education practices of the North >>> Atlantic sphere are woefully lacking in the historical >>> luminaries of the rest of the world. If you think that your >>> historical education was lacking in information about Asia, >>> what did you learn about Africa or Latin America? >> Africa was owned by the British, mostly > >> Latin America is where the Spanish killed anyone who wouldn't >> learn to say the Mass in Latin > >I realise you were being sarcastic, but how much of the pre-colonial >history gets taught at school? How much is taught about the history of >North and South America, and Asia and Africa and the Pacific region, >before the Europeans arrived? I had to learn all that later (and still >have big chunks of history missing). >I got most of what I know about Central Asia from a very interesting >travel documentary on TV. The rest is from 'The Times Compact Atlas of >World History'... >The trouble is that there is just so _much_ history! Is there any source >that attempts to cover _all_ of world history in a large amount of >detail? The best place I've found is various websites and online >encyclopedias, such as wikipedia (though that is sometimes not >reliable). Currently reading: Millennium by Felipe Fernandez-Armesto, a world history of the years 1000-2000. Excellent stuff. ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <30eBd.8785$Of5.6219@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:16:52 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.76.42 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104505983 213.101.76.42 (Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:13:03 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 16:13:03 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166642 "Louis Epstein" skrev i meddelandet news:qpqdncBvtOOOXUncRVn-hg@fcc.net... [snip] > > Bombur was fat. So is Babar. (It bet Babur was too.) Do you refuse to > > acknowledge the obvious inference to draw? > > But Pom,Flora,and Alexander all have distinctive names... > not nearly as similar as Bofur and Bombur's! > > There would have been a tradition of family nomenclature. Such as Bompom, Boraflom and Bolexander? Öjevind ###### From: "robert j. kolker" User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.7.2) Gecko/20040804 Netscape/7.2 (ax) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 Message-ID: <16eBd.666941$D%.596923@attbi_s51> NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.62.143.251 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s51 1104506365 24.62.143.251 (Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:19:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:19:25 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Fri, 31 Dec 2004 15:19:25 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s51.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166645 Louis Epstein wrote: > If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the > Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into > one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. > I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed > a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the > others. Bring a megawatt laser along. As soon as a palantir tuned to Barad-Dur is found zapp the lidless-eye with one megawatt of raw photonic power. Terrorize this Shadow! Bob Kolker ###### From: "Hashemon Urtasman" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien, rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 2 Jan 2005 13:02:31 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 42 Message-ID: <1104699751.015013.263470@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.226.9.2 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" X-Trace: posting.google.com 1104699758 689 127.0.0.1 (2 Jan 2005 21:02:38 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 2 Jan 2005 21:02:38 +0000 (UTC) In-Reply-To: <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> User-Agent: G2/0.2 Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com Injection-Info: c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com; posting-host=209.226.9.2; posting-account=1OwR4w0AAABzBVMq4IlAuSzvXV6gFHlx Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!nrc-news.nrc.ca!news.litech.org!news.glorb.com!postnews.google.com!c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166812 Actually if I recall correctly, Bombur's name was a cruel joke, as he was named after the *bombard* cannon which was newly invented in the century before Moghul times. This was a cruel reference to his corpulence and resulting flatulence. But anyways, Babur was the first conqueror to use cannon in India, and so this makes his empire one of the first gunpowder empires of the world, I think. But on the more realistic side here, if you want to find any connection between the Khans and the dwarves, you would be better off looking south of Kabul, to Kandahar. In 128 AD the Scythians invaded India but withdrew and settled down in the southern Afghan province of Sistan aka Drangiana. The Scythians were known as the Shakas, and so they named the province Shakastan, which is where the modern word Sistan comes from. (But I wonder if it doesn't come from a different derivation, the old name for Scythia in some old maps is "Sithia", so maybe Sistan was once called "Sithistan" or something, from which might come Sistan. Better take it seriously if someone tells you Ayatuillah Sistani is a Sith-ian. :O ). http://www.livius.org/sao-sd/scythians/scythians.html The people living in Drangiana seem to have been called Sarangians http://www.livius.org/do-dz/drangiana/drangiana.html , and some old names for the place were Zranka or Zarangai or Sarangai(something sounding like that), according to http://www.iranica.com/articles/v7/v7f5/v7f565.html . It meant "sea land" or "lake land". One derivation links it with the word zarang for "mountain peak", saying it was named for a mountain peak which dominates the area. It would be interesting to know whether Tolkien got his Lake-town and lonely mountain from some old myth involving this area. All we are missing is the dragon. Since the Greek name for it was Drangiana, could there be any links with "dragon" in it? I do know that ancient Scythians wore armour that resembled the scales of a dragon, and titled their kings "dragon kings". Mark Twain once said "There is something fascinating about science. One gets such wholesale returns of conjecture out of such a trifling investment of fact. " Ditto for fantasy and history. Hasan ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <1104699751.015013.263470@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com> Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 3 Jan 2005 12:03:09 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.101.76.111 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 1104749959 213.101.76.111 (Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:59:19 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 11:59:19 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166856 "Hashemon Urtasman" skrev i meddelandet news:1104699751.015013.263470@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com... > Actually if I recall correctly, Bombur's name was a cruel joke, as he > was named after the *bombard* cannon which was newly invented in the > century before Moghul times. This was a cruel reference to his > corpulence and resulting flatulence. I thought it had something to do with the Old Norsr word for "bumblebee". Öjevind ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:08:15 -0600 Date: Mon, 03 Jan 2005 23:06:47 -0500 From: Flame of the West User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 1.0 (Macintosh/20041206) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Lines: 19 NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.49.64.18 X-Trace: sv3-aqU/iGJ3xyaiRdyiJdEfA0QZCuYWbVtzNcikfVCmYYzx38XFPDy3tdsjcbvZDL3utKqoknxdajWseCL!RP9XYbEUY5CVwoYdUS4TtJPQIuvCI6BGyAXpSXjjqmGK0FSX2nBhoVFBqVk= X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.22 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166926 Öjevind Lång wrote: > "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet > >>Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to Caradhras. >>I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going down on the other side >>would be scary; it's easy to get injured going downhill on cross-country >>skis. > Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with you. And a doughty Man he is, although a lesser man with a snowmobile might serve you better. -- FotW "Finish your beer. There are sober people in China." ###### From: Huan the hound Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 4 Jan 2005 05:22:38 GMT Lines: 27 Message-ID: <33unguF44l25aU1@individual.net> References: <330qhfF3r9r6dU1@individual.net> <338jsvF3vjv8eU1@individual.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: individual.net nIJM/NGXQHo4sM7RTKJHRA2QR6nDLx3Ex75LvcRGhZRZYD14U5 User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (Darwin) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:166928 On 2005-01-04, Flame of the West wrote in : > Öjevind Lång wrote: > >> "Huan the hound" skrev i meddelandet >> >>>Yes, if the Fellowship went on skis, I would have made it to Caradhras. >>>I bet I could ski with gear on my back. But going down on the other side >>>would be scary; it's easy to get injured going downhill on cross-country >>>skis. >> >> Oh, Boromir could have taken you on his back and skied down with you. > > And a doughty Man he is, although a lesser man with a > snowmobile might serve you better. LOL A Man with reliable transportation sounds quality. Can you tell me how to catch one? > -- FotW > > "Finish your beer. There are sober people in China." Not hardly. The men go out drinking every night. Good beer, cheap too. -- Huan, the hound of Valinor ###### From: Jens Kilian Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 10 Jan 2005 22:09:17 +0100 Organization: 1&1 Internet AG Lines: 14 Sender: jjk@gondolin Message-ID: <87vfa5at4y.fsf@gondolin.bb.bawue.de> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: p54a0ae6b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: online.de 1105391364 6331 84.160.174.107 (10 Jan 2005 21:09:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@einsundeins.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jan 2005 21:09:24 +0000 (UTC) X-Bot-Bait: Bait User-Agent: Gnus/5.09 (Gnus v5.9.0) Emacs/21.3 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!feed.news.schlund.de!schlund.de!news.online.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:167438 the softrat writes: > Unfortunately the standard education practices of the North Atlantic > sphere are woefully lacking in the historical luminaries of the rest > of the world. If you think that your historical education was lacking > in information about Asia, what did you learn about Africa or Latin > America? I learned more about English, US, Asian and African history from the Flashman books than I *ever* did in history class. And I had more fun, too. Jens. -- mailto:jjk@acm.org As the air to a bird, or the sea to a fish, http://www.bawue.de/~jjk/ so is contempt to the contemptible. [Blake] ###### From: Belba Grubb From Stock Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Sun, 16 Jan 2005 16:43:54 -0600 Organization: Very little, but I try Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 43 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!newsmi-us.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:167727 On Wed, 22 Dec 2004 19:45:15 -0600, Louis Epstein wrote: >Something that strikes me constantly as I read through TLotR again >(and when I'm not reading it every day,I'm reading Hobbit or Silmarillion >every day) is that the perils they face seem beyond me to survive, >not just the total absence of flush toilets! > >If for some reason I had found myself an additional member of the >Fellowship I think I would likely have died in Moria,falling into >one of the pits the others jumped if not getting killed by Orcs. >I'm curious as to whether anyone else thinks they could have managed >a positive contribution to the Quest,indeed not been a drain on the >others. That depends on the reason one is there -- everybody in the fellowship except Frodo, and possibly Gimli and Legolas, had a special reason for being there: Gandalf as a guide, Aragorn to meet his destiny, Boromir to go home, Sam to serve Frodo, Merry and Pippin because they were related to Frodo. Why would I be there? Well, I can't see myself as an Elf or a Dwarf or a Wizard, so that leaves the humans/hobbits, really the hobbits, as I can't see myself as one of the Dunedain, north or south. And in comparison to me Pippin Took would have been an adept adventurer even at the start of the journey. They'd have probably left me whining in a snowdrift on the flanks of Caradhras. (g) > >Of course the issue of having read the book before being zapped >into the situation (sort of thinking at Rivendell) would give you >certain knowledge that would be useful to the right people...and >all too useful to the wrong people if you fell into the wrong >hands. > >If one were "debriefed" prior to departure from Imladris what >would be your most important advice? >(Not sure how much the "mellon" shortcut would save...and at >Moria I'd be urging a demolition of the dam to kill the Watcher). Sam, don't forget the rope. Barb ###### From: "TeaLady (Mari C.)" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: 17 Jan 2005 20:40:30 GMT Organization: Lint Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> <409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> X-Trace: individual.net fkJH042RBX+7HG5j0Fsb2ApmhDWH3uHBd+YsY7ss/HQ+3Xpjv4 User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 x-face: 8S?dQ)V'hP@.Lf3Ot.sv"e+zw7tDI4*y7F3ySvbXP%qrfyUVyXTSovH~=C}5]"*4K`e4q_@ ]OG'MH[A!iPTo6O:Ru:FUr,R6|%`H^>U:F)MjpAS&{^3A/Mq=/0ewP)VoUj7E^)Ilg`n%{z=R0d88: O{^)NYf]Ys.D#w`R':o+%gkH,f.bZyYp]`)+}?f8$&{,Gz@z9ou=N]Z}o0CI]q&n\\kz/Op@\cg15@S[z&bb'f`2T,a> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!individual.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:167792 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in news:409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk: > The trouble is that there is just so _much_ history! Is > there any source that attempts to cover _all_ of world > history in a large amount of detail? The best place I've > found is various websites and online encyclopedias, such as > wikipedia (though that is sometimes not reliable). > I've never found any one source all-encompassing - Asimov wrote one (History of the World, or something like that) that does a pretty decent albeit VERY general job (it does whet the appetite for more, if you find yourself inclined) but quite a bit of Asia is left out. As far as grade school (k-12) I never got anywhere near the education in history that I should have - I even managed to skip the USAn Civil War, somehow. And what I did get seemed mired in minutia, demanding that I know the complete hour-by- hour timeline of one particular battle rather than the over- all war and politics there-of. I've learned more real history researching the family tree than I did in all the schooling I got. -- TeaLady (mari) "I keep telling you, chew with your mouth closed!" Kell the coach offers advice on keeping that elusive prey caught. ###### From: clJUNKv1@balcab.ch (CleV) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: How Would You Have Done as 10th Walker? Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:15:52 GMT Organization: Cablecom Newsserver Lines: 11 Message-ID: <41ec2ac1.2996107@news.hispeed.ch> References: <%1Byd.6636$Of5.4698@nntpserver.swip.net> <9GAzd.7317$Of5.5120@nntpserver.swip.net> <41cf11e3.1044877@news.hispeed.ch> <41d34d46.19332455@news.hispeed.ch> <409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 80-218-138-214.dclient.hispeed.ch X-Trace: news.hispeed.ch 1105996631 31193 80.218.138.214 (17 Jan 2005 21:17:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@hispeed.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Jan 2005 21:17:11 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!news1.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.hispeed.ch!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:167799 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in news:409Bd.40$cu7.25@text.news.blueyonder.co.uk: > The trouble is that there is just so _much_ history! Is > there any source that attempts to cover _all_ of world > history in a large amount of detail? The best place I've > found is various websites and online encyclopedias, such as > wikipedia (though that is sometimes not reliable). J. M. Roberts - The Penguin History of the World - a great book (and it's where I first read about Babur of Kabul :-))