X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.81.240.204 Reply-To: "Chris Wright" From: "Chris Wright" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Tolkien's health Lines: 7 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:34:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.59.144.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw3no 1092342849 64.59.144.74 (Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:34:09 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 14:34:09 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.glorb.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw3no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159876 1. Did Tolkien suffer any ill-effects during WWII, aside from psychological trauma (seeing all but one of his friends die)? 2. What did Tolkien eventally succumb to? And when he did die, was he fabulously rich as a result of LotR? ###### From: Chris Kern Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:30:41 +0900 Organization: http://newsguy.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-799.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!proxad.net!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.moat.net!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news2 Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159899 On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:34:09 GMT, "Chris Wright" posted the following: >1. Did Tolkien suffer any ill-effects during WWII, aside from psychological >trauma (seeing all but one of his friends die)? WWI, not II. And no, I don't believe he did. >2. What did Tolkien eventally succumb to? And when he did die, was he >fabulously rich as a result of LotR? I don't recall exactly what he died of, although I know it was not cancer. It was something very sudden -- one of those "hey, you're sick" and then 2-4 days later he was dead. As for money, I know that at least in the years following LotR's publishing he was not wealthy; if you read his letters he often refers to his monetary difficulties. But IIRC in his later years he started to benefit a little more from his creation. Someone more knowledgable than me on Tolkien's life may correct this. -Chris ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:59:28 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <4htnh014hbru15quo84nbbrm2s4a6esrs1@4ax.com> References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 18 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-04!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159900 On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:30:41 +0900, Chris Kern wrote: >On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:34:09 GMT, "Chris Wright" >posted the following: > >>1. Did Tolkien suffer any ill-effects during WWII, aside from psychological >>trauma (seeing all but one of his friends die)? > >WWI, not II. And no, I don't believe he did. > Except that he was in hospital for Trench Fever for over a year .... the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- A child of five could understand this! Fetch me a child of five. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Lines: 75 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2004 23:52:23 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.162.58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1092354743 82.43.162.58 (Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:52:23 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 00:52:23 BST Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!news2.euro.net!fr.ip.ndsoftware.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159903 Chris Kern wrote: > On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:34:09 GMT, "Chris Wright" > posted the following: > >> 1. Did Tolkien suffer any ill-effects during WWII, aside from >> psychological trauma (seeing all but one of his friends die)? > > WWI, not II. And no, I don't believe he did. As softrat said, trench fever for a long time. This probably saved his life, as he was invalided home from the front. Looking in Carpenter's Biography: Tolkien got trench fever on Friday 27 October 1916, 3.5 months after he first saw action in the trenches (he had spent the early war years completing his degree at Oxford University). He remained ill and was eventually shipped to England on 8 November. He had recovered by Christmas and was convalescing with his wife. While still on sick leave in early 1917, Tolkien began work on his mythology (what became the Book of Lost Tales). Over the months that followed, Tolkien recovered from trench fever only to promptly succumb again. This continued until November 1917, when he was assigned a post in Yorkshire (rather than returning to active service in France). In Spring 1918 he was posted to another army base in England, at about the time that the remainder of his battalion was killed or captured in battle. Tolkien then fell ill again, and remained in hospital until being discharged by October 1918. The war ended on 11 November 1918. So Tolkien spent nearly 1.5 years in and out of hospital, along with about half a year assigned to posts in England. He left for war on 4 June 1916 and was back home with trench fever by November, so he spent 5 months on active service (including his illness in France), but that was enough to have a lasting impact on him. >> 2. What did Tolkien eventally succumb to? > > I don't recall exactly what he died of, although I know it was not > cancer. It was something very sudden -- one of those "hey, you're > sick" and then 2-4 days later he was dead. Apparantly the warning signs started in late 1972 (again from Carpenter's Biography): severe indigestion led to a diagnosis of dyspepsia (acid indigestion) and being placed on a special diet and told not to drink wine. During the summer of 1973, people noticed that he seemed to be ageing faster then before. In July he went to a dinner at Cambridge University and enjoyed the dinner greatly. In a letter, he said that he had "since been able to dispense with most of the diet taboos I had to observe for some six months." Three days later he travelled to Bournemouth (Tuesday 28 August 1973). He joined in celebrations for his hostess's birthday on the Thursday, but did not feel well. In pain that night, he was taken the next morning to a private hospital and diagnosed with an "acute bleeding gastric ulcer". By the next day (Saturday): "a chest infection had developed, and early on Sunday morning, 2 September 1973, he died, aged 81." So yes, fairly sudden, but the verdict would probably be "complications following a bleeding stomach ulcer." It sounds like the chest infection finished him off, though there might have been further complications right at the end. It happens when you are old and several things go wrong at the same time. Christopher -- --- Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard ###### From: Chris Kern Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:37:07 +0900 Organization: http://newsguy.com Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> <4htnh014hbru15quo84nbbrm2s4a6esrs1@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-567.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!news3 Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159909 On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 15:59:28 -0700, the softrat posted the following: >On Fri, 13 Aug 2004 07:30:41 +0900, Chris Kern >wrote: > >>On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 20:34:09 GMT, "Chris Wright" >>posted the following: >> >>>1. Did Tolkien suffer any ill-effects during WWII, aside from psychological >>>trauma (seeing all but one of his friends die)? >> >>WWI, not II. And no, I don't believe he did. >> >Except that he was in hospital for Trench Fever for over a year .... You're absolutely right, somehow I was reading the question as "long term health problems". -Chris ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 09:07:17 -0500 From: "The American" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:07:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.203.74.66 X-Trace: sv3-D0ks/+/Qz0J39swIfOyW9Ew+DeEeRVjONTmppq+awCdeEUmYQiM9TQ5omq8QKB3eyzofoUWHIwOoeRF!9YONqffnceiQfHO4nhDmbH+N220UjJOlVgdYnpyiYPU2XxMLRNuJtmp7Gq4PckB/LViQZUn+kDbC!3fLaDA== X-Complaints-To: abuse@conversent.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@conversent.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.3.13 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.conversent.net!news.conversent.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159915 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in message news:XoTSc.4329$gg3.47020053@news-text.cableinet.net... > > Tolkien got trench fever on Friday 27 October 1916, 3.5 months after he > first saw action in the trenches (he had spent the early war years > completing his degree at Oxford University). He remained ill and was > eventually shipped to England on 8 November. He had recovered by > Christmas and was convalescing with his wife. While still on sick leave > in early 1917, Tolkien began work on his mythology (what became the Book > of Lost Tales). > > Over the months that followed, Tolkien recovered from trench fever only > to promptly succumb again. This continued until November 1917, when he > was assigned a post in Yorkshire (rather than returning to active > service in France). In Spring 1918 he was posted to another army base in > England, at about the time that the remainder of his battalion was > killed or captured in battle. > > Tolkien then fell ill again, and remained in hospital until being > discharged by October 1918. The war ended on 11 November 1918. > Sounds like Frodo in the "Tale of Years"! T.A. ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.81.240.204 Reply-To: "Chris Wright" From: "Chris Wright" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1437 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1441 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 16:21:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.59.144.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: pd7tw1no 1092414061 64.59.144.74 (Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:21:01 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2004 10:21:01 MDT Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!feed5.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!news3.optonline.net!pd7cy1no!shaw.ca!pd7tw1no.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159919 > > Three days later he travelled to Bournemouth (Tuesday 28 August 1973). > He joined in celebrations for his hostess's birthday on the Thursday, > but did not feel well. In pain that night, he was taken the next morning > to a private hospital and diagnosed with an "acute bleeding gastric > ulcer". By the next day (Saturday): "a chest infection had developed, > and early on Sunday morning, 2 September 1973, he died, aged 81." Bournemouth... interesting. I was just in Bournemouth. Looks alright on the surface. But I after 24 hours, I came away a bad feeling about the place. Seems like the city saw its peak in the 50's. There are a lot of very unhealthy people there. The population density is too high. Also, my brother had been fighting off a chicken pox outbreak for a couple of weeks. When his immune system finally succumbed, it was in Bournemouth of all places. Bottom line: if you're feeling poorly, don't go to Bournemouth. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <5vQSc.90972$gE.37181@pd7tw3no> <3prnh0lt5q01peeb9rei2oqt7vh93e0v8j@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Tolkien's health Lines: 20 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 08:07:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.162.58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1092470862 82.43.162.58 (Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:07:42 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 14 Aug 2004 09:07:42 BST Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in2p3.fr!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:159947 The American wrote: > "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote > Sounds like Frodo in the "Tale of Years"! I'd never noticed that before! Frodo's recurrent illnesses after the war ended could indeed be paralleled with Tolkien's trench fever episodes. He even wrote his story (of the WotR), much as Tolkien began writing his stories. I wonder if this is mentioned in John Garth's 'Tolkien and the Great War'? Christopher -- --- Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard