From: "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: SoWM and FGoH Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.166.25.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s04 1087441738 67.166.25.137 (Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news2.telebyte.nl!news.glorb.com!wns13feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s04.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155339 I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... Thanks, -p ###### Message-ID: <40D12459.820793D@operamail.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:55:53 -0500 From: Larry Swain X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en]C-CCK-MCD AIT DSL (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 42 X-Trace: DXC=\31T23Ulb@=VhUa9S`^@G X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!newsfeed.hanau.net!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155342 Pippen wrote: > I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering > to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read > Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much > more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper > meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme > in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... > > Thanks, > > -p Farmer Giles is delightful! To me it is a philologists' story--Tolkien is playing around with names in the Oxford area (which he does a little bit in Smith of Wooten Major too). That I think apparent from the concern with the names in the story. But more than that, he's obviously making fun of heroic tales by telling an inside out one. The hero, like the Hobbit and LoTR, is a farmer who likes his beer who goes off and beats all the knights at bravery and "tames" a dragon, and out foxes the wily dragon too.. Now don't that beat all. Compare Bilbo and Giles in their dragon talk and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, I like the story and enjoy rereading it. Smitth is also a story I reread every year. This one I find new meaning in too, almost every year. The search for fairy, both nearby and far away, both like us and not like us is not at all unlike Tolkien's presentation of the elves in LoTR, at least as we see them from Frodo and Sam's point of view. But once again we have the unexpected, small guy going where the great fear/desire to come, but can not. And we have the awesome theme of the incredible "other" beauty of fairy that overwhelms in a way---again rather like Tolkien's Elves. By the way, one of the Biblical characters in Old English poetry is in the poetic retreatment of her story called "elf-shining" to describe her beauty--other good Germanic "elf" words also hint at this kind of other worldly wisdom and beauty. Every time I read Smith I think of that. Anyway, its late, but I'll get more specific tomorrow if you're interested. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:09:51 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 21 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155344 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT, "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> wrote: >I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering >to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read >Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much >more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper >meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme >in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... > It is very difficult to 'enlighten' the almost terminally shallow. SoWM is a allegory (Yes, Otto, an allegory from JRRT!) of Tolkien and his encounter with Fairie. FGoH is a (hysteric) parody of 'The Hero's Tale'. For more in-depth analysis, I suggest that you confer with your fifth-form English instructor. the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "If somebody's gonna stab me in the back, I wanna be there." -- Allan Lamport (deceased), former mayor of Toronto. ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 05:58:30 GMT Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> References: X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de qYFrLGdHs6iHl6hfhc6vTgyVsMRvKsp5yKZ+w4oeE54A/nlgIh X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155346 In article , the softrat wrote: >On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT, "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> wrote: > >>I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering >>to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read >>Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much >>more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper >>meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme >>in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... >> >It is very difficult to 'enlighten' the almost terminally shallow. Which is why you will always be a loser. ###### From: Huan the hound Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:25:28 +0800 Organization: Mediocre; I could really use a filing cabinet around here. Lines: 15 Message-ID: <2jdtvsF10mg3mU1@uni-berlin.de> References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de obiIVtFxxa//DAuWv1fshQobQpbrE1c6Am+0BWbDNfqw6CJoTp User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.6 (Macintosh/20040502) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155368 Pippen posted on 6/17/04 11:08 AM: > I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering > to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read > Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much [snip] Don't forget _Roverandom_! It's a children's story, but very nice. -- Therefore he sent a wolf to the bridge. But Huan slew it silently. Still Sauron sent others one by one; and one by one Huan took them by the throat and slew them. ###### From: AC Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 14:43:33 GMT Organization: The Tao of Cow Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> Reply-To: mightymartianca@hotmail.com X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de k0RLY55LE8WLmnnKS3QmXAh7XDty/wS4H4M0gC5nWOn93mFuiF User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (CYGWIN_NT-5.0) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155364 On 17 Jun 2004 05:58:30 GMT, tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: > In article , > the softrat wrote: >>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT, "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >>>I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering >>>to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read >>>Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much >>>more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper >>>meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme >>>in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... >>> >>It is very difficult to 'enlighten' the almost terminally shallow. > > Which is why you will always be a loser. Look, just killfile softie and move on. -- Aaron Clausen mightymartianca@hotmail.com ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 16:16:19 GMT Lines: 23 Message-ID: <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> References: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de CoypIfctetcFpGGonJe7lASYlFzTBHv+WBNXbRwuCCz2bFg4HE X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news1.uni-leipzig.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155370 In article , AC wrote: >On 17 Jun 2004 05:58:30 GMT, >tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: >> In article , >> the softrat wrote: >>>On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 03:08:58 GMT, "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>>I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering >>>>to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read >>>>Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much >>>>more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper >>>>meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme >>>>in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... >>>> >>>It is very difficult to 'enlighten' the almost terminally shallow. >> >> Which is why you will always be a loser. > >Look, just killfile softie and move on. Is that what most people do with that nut? ###### From: AC Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 16:32:01 GMT Organization: The Tao of Cow Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> Reply-To: mightymartianca@hotmail.com X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de g9BKrgp0O4ZIJLYO/jMx/QodlborqRuGWwTvtMYpGX/S/qbjxS User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (CYGWIN_NT-5.0) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155372 On 17 Jun 2004 16:16:19 GMT, tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: > In article , > AC wrote: >> >>Look, just killfile softie and move on. > > Is that what most people do with that nut? I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him then I suggest, for your own pleasure and well-being, and for the pleasure of all of those that don't want to see yet another thread descend into flames, that you killfile him. Some people (myself included) don't really get to bother with Softrat. Others do, and I think the best solution is to simply killfile him and go on your way. -- Aaron Clausen mightymartianca@hotmail.com ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 19:31:28 GMT Lines: 17 Message-ID: <2je9sgF10hmaoU1@uni-berlin.de> References: <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de AXN3UAt0DuKHQKeb7+mSpgAKr2iaZwSPhGMgcY9beLvFQwiBMZ X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155404 In article , AC wrote: >On 17 Jun 2004 16:16:19 GMT, >tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: >> In article , >> AC wrote: >>> >>>Look, just killfile softie and move on. >> >> Is that what most people do with that nut? > >I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him then No I am not bothered by him. But I usually deal with losers when necessary, no need for any killfile. ###### From: AC Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 17 Jun 2004 20:10:29 GMT Organization: The Tao of Cow Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> <2je9sgF10hmaoU1@uni-berlin.de> Reply-To: mightymartianca@hotmail.com X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de YuU3MhNP8mp/bJkHiSd9Gg2Y9U6V9rJeGRrZRbtOVKiA0Sc896 User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (CYGWIN_NT-5.0) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155407 On 17 Jun 2004 19:31:28 GMT, tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: > In article , > AC wrote: >>On 17 Jun 2004 16:16:19 GMT, >>tr2267@hotmail.com wrote: >>> In article , >>> AC wrote: >>>> >>>>Look, just killfile softie and move on. >>> >>> Is that what most people do with that nut? >> >>I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him then > > No I am not bothered by him. Clearly you are. > But I usually deal with losers when necessary, > no need for any killfile. The problem is that your "dealing" with him appears to be nothing more than a rather vulgar pissing match. It's bad enough already with Mr. Martinez's bad vibes. -- Aaron Clausen mightymartianca@hotmail.com ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:59:52 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com> References: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 17 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155470 On 17 Jun 2004 16:32:01 GMT, AC wrote: > >I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him then >I suggest, for your own pleasure and well-being, and for the pleasure of all >of those that don't want to see yet another thread descend into flames, that >you killfile him. Some people (myself included) don't really get to bother >with Softrat. Others do, and I think the best solution is to simply >killfile him and go on your way. Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! the softrat "Honi soit qui mal y pense." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "The sad thing is not that we have our price, but how low it really is." -- Hobbes (of Calvin &) ###### From: AC Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 18 Jun 2004 03:12:29 GMT Organization: The Tao of Cow Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <2jcq86FvrjluU3@uni-berlin.de> <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com> Reply-To: mightymartianca@hotmail.com X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 6ZOPZupBHMUb4s5dvv5o+gdIwX4Bqe6ak7HHEB7IMagzhMV/Hn User-Agent: slrn/0.9.8.0 (CYGWIN_NT-5.0) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news1.uni-leipzig.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155475 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:59:52 -0700, the softrat wrote: > On 17 Jun 2004 16:32:01 GMT, AC wrote: >> >>I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him then >>I suggest, for your own pleasure and well-being, and for the pleasure of all >>of those that don't want to see yet another thread descend into flames, that >>you killfile him. Some people (myself included) don't really get to bother >>with Softrat. Others do, and I think the best solution is to simply >>killfile him and go on your way. > > Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! Sorry about that. I will descend back into inanity. I think my next thread should be "Smurfs, Cute Cuddly Children's Toys or Satanic Tools of World Domination." -- Aaron Clausen mightymartianca@hotmail.com ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 18 Jun 2004 04:14:06 GMT Lines: 9 Message-ID: <2jf8geF10fjgmU1@uni-berlin.de> References: <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de fVWz6r9WXETR15mi4X2K+giR8WInd9+MXAq+Zt3JFzHl7pYpEm X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155478 In article <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com>, the softrat wrote: > >Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! The sensible thing would be to tell you to grow up and stop being an immature retard whenever you don't like what someone says. I have no problems dealing with losers where necessary. ###### Lines: 28 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: hopeandfaith2001@aol.com (Hope) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 18 Jun 2004 12:30:50 GMT References: Organization: AOL, http://www.aol.co.uk Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Message-ID: <20040618083050.04622.00000103@mb-m10.aol.com> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!gnilink.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155496 >Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH >From: AC mightymartianca@hotmail.com >Date: 18/06/2004 04:12 GMT Daylight Time >Message-id: > >On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:59:52 -0700, >the softrat wrote: >> On 17 Jun 2004 16:32:01 GMT, AC wrote: >>> >>>I don't think he's nuts, but I do think if you are that bothered by him >then >>>I suggest, for your own pleasure and well-being, and for the pleasure of >all >>>of those that don't want to see yet another thread descend into flames, >that >>>you killfile him. Some people (myself included) don't really get to bother >>>with Softrat. Others do, and I think the best solution is to simply >>>killfile him and go on your way. >> >> Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! > >Sorry about that. I will descend back into inanity. I think my next thread >should be "Smurfs, Cute Cuddly Children's Toys or Satanic Tools of World >Domination." > Why does anyone need to ask the question, could any non insane world dominating megalomaniac come up with Smurfs. :o) ###### From: "Pippen" <123@hotmail.com> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <40D12459.820793D@operamail.com> Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Lines: 71 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.166.25.137 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-Trace: attbi_s01 1087567350 67.166.25.137 (Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:02:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:02:30 GMT Organization: Comcast Online Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 14:02:30 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!attbi_s01.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155502 "Larry Swain" wrote in message news:40D12459.820793D@operamail.com... > > > Pippen wrote: > > > I have not read Leaf by Niggle but after the postings I'm curious (refering > > to post by tr2267@hotmail.com Leaf by Niggle). I have read > > Smith_of_Wootton_Major and Farmer_Giles_of_Ham. I did not take them for much > > more than children's stories. Now I'm wondering if I have missed the deeper > > meaning. If someone would be kind enough to enlighten me of a deeper theme > > in each story if there is one I would appreciate it... > > > > Thanks, > > > > -p > > Farmer Giles is delightful! To me it is a philologists' story--Tolkien is > playing around with names in the Oxford area (which he does a little bit in > Smith of Wooten Major too). That I think apparent from the concern with the > names in the story. > > But more than that, he's obviously making fun of heroic tales by telling an > inside out one. The hero, like the Hobbit and LoTR, is a farmer who likes his > beer who goes off and beats all the knights at bravery and "tames" a dragon, and > out foxes the wily dragon too.. Now don't that beat all. Compare Bilbo and > Giles in their dragon talk and you'll see what I mean. Anyway, I like the story > and enjoy rereading it. > > Smitth is also a story I reread every year. This one I find new meaning in too, > almost every year. The search for fairy, both nearby and far away, both like us > and not like us is not at all unlike Tolkien's presentation of the elves in > LoTR, at least as we see them from Frodo and Sam's point of view. But once > again we have the unexpected, small guy going where the great fear/desire to > come, but can not. And we have the awesome theme of the incredible "other" > beauty of fairy that overwhelms in a way---again rather like Tolkien's Elves. > By the way, one of the Biblical characters in Old English poetry is in the > poetic retreatment of her story called "elf-shining" to describe her > beauty--other good Germanic "elf" words also hint at this kind of other worldly > wisdom and beauty. Every time I read Smith I think of that. > > Anyway, its late, but I'll get more specific tomorrow if you're interested. > > Thank you! I appreciate your enlightening the 'almost terminally shallow'... -p ###### From: "TeaLady (Mari C.)" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 19 Jun 2004 17:39:39 GMT Organization: Lint Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <2jduejFvvug1U2@uni-berlin.de> <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com> <2jf8geF10fjgmU1@uni-berlin.de> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de BMftZuiwVgo6AhytGSEPnAlY0fpR73sapFSpuT/UOuFOdzuyAc User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.09 x-face: 8S?dQ)V'hP@.Lf3Ot.sv"e+zw7tDI4*y7F3ySvbXP%qrfyUVyXTSovH~=C}5]"*4K`e4q_@ ]OG'MH[A!iPTo6O:Ru:FUr,R6|%`H^>U:F)MjpAS&{^3A/Mq=/0ewP)VoUj7E^)Ilg`n%{z=R0d88: O{^)NYf]Ys.D#w`R':o+%gkH,f.bZyYp]`)+}?f8$&{,Gz@z9ou=N]Z}o0CI]q&n\\kz/Op@\cg15@S[z&bb'f`2T,a> Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsmi-eu.news.garr.it!NewsITBone-GARR!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155628 tr2267@hotmail.com wrote in news:2jf8geF10fjgmU1@uni-berlin.de: > In article <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com>, > the softrat wrote: >> >>Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! > > The sensible thing would be to tell you to grow up and stop > being an immature retard whenever you don't like what > someone says. I have no problems dealing with losers where > necessary. > > Look, softie doesn't even punch my buttons, and although I do not publicly flush folks into the great waste trap of killfiledom, I do use the waste removal tool quite liberally. If he bothers you, flush him. Otherwise, you will end up in the swirling waters of doom, plonked, killfiled, or any other term that folks out there(here) like to use, and no one will be bothered by your being bothered. -- TeaLady / mari conroy Rainbow Canyon is back ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: 19 Jun 2004 20:00:42 GMT Lines: 28 Message-ID: <2jjkbaF12b5kcU1@uni-berlin.de> References: <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com> <2jf8geF10fjgmU1@uni-berlin.de> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de ud1QACe+bJrDwE1DWdDNtAsUYwZOyiMPkwacnhS4yFCdj8KPJS X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155658 In article , TeaLady (Mari C.) wrote: >tr2267@hotmail.com wrote in >news:2jf8geF10fjgmU1@uni-berlin.de: > >> In article <4km4d09onafqo6di0v9vpf5rheeubav91n@4ax.com>, >> the softrat wrote: >>> >>>Dammit, AC, you are make *sense* again! >> >> The sensible thing would be to tell you to grow up and stop >> being an immature retard whenever you don't like what >> someone says. I have no problems dealing with losers where >> necessary. >> >> > >Look, softie doesn't even punch my buttons, and although I do >not publicly flush folks into the great waste trap of >killfiledom, I do use the waste removal tool quite liberally. >If he bothers you, flush him. Otherwise, you will end up in the >swirling waters of doom, plonked, killfiled, or any other term >that folks out there(here) like to use, and no one will be >bothered by your being bothered. > Take your own advice. Just add to your killfile if you are bothered. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 19:13:03 -0500 From: R Dan Henry Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2004 17:12:07 -0700 Organization: Me, Myself, and I, a subsidiary of the Universe Reply-To: danhenry@inreach.com Message-ID: References: <2jdtvsF10mg3mU1@uni-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.25.52.91 X-Trace: sv3-VLl0nkt+XL8TNRiicjS/Q+wfI9kHT1YQB3dlPDPrCuhBHTnVlT4xqS0WSJVeE2f7wx8BP4v66G0Do0r!Ke11kwxHltLtelMQkDKcmvex5H5N6inUWS+DW5iwm6O6bHXr0N/Wwm0RymkjLkU6wMm9I1ShIpTN!c6tY2VP/JbzrJHOHkqwLhw== X-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-DMCA-Complaints-To: abuse@inreach.com X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.inreach.com!news.inreach.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155768 On Thu, 17 Jun 2004 19:25:28 +0800, in a fit of madness Huan the hound declared: >Don't forget _Roverandom_! It's a children's story, but >very nice. And about a dog, which must appeal to you. I thought Roverandom was a pretty good story and liked the pictures, but am puzzled over whether to say the name Rove-random or Rover-andom. I lean towards Rover-andom, but Rove-random seems appropriate to his odd wanderings. R. Dan Henry (danhenry@inreach.com) "He stood up, and seemed suddenly to grow taller." - JRRT, LOTR, I.10 "Strider" Yeah, standing up will do that. ###### From: Huan the hound Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: SoWM and FGoH Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2004 22:23:26 +0800 Organization: Mediocre; I could really use a filing cabinet around here. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <2jo97nF133sq8U1@uni-berlin.de> References: <2jdtvsF10mg3mU1@uni-berlin.de> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de c0hoK8IAL58yOeB89WWyIwUV/i+L1Gq6oxS5XWJ/soLZpFueki User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird 0.5 (Macintosh/20040208) X-Accept-Language: en-us, en In-Reply-To: Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155831 R Dan Henry posted on 6/21/04 8:12 AM: [snip] > I thought Roverandom was a pretty good story and liked the pictures, > but > am puzzled over whether to say the name Rove-random or Rover-andom. I > lean towards Rover-andom, but Rove-random seems appropriate to his odd > wanderings. Well, his name was previously Rover, right? I don't have the book here with me, so I'm going from memory. Anyway, I'd retain the Rover-ness of his name. BTW, what do you think of Farmer Giles's dog? I think he's pretty funny! -- Therefore he sent a wolf to the bridge. But Huan slew it silently. Still Sauron sent others one by one; and one by one Huan took them by the throat and slew them.