From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Best Tolkien websites? Lines: 27 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:26:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.162.58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1087334774 82.43.162.58 (Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:26:14 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 22:26:14 BST Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155186 I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien websites are? Here are a few to start it off: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ (HarperCollins Tolkien website) http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/lordoftheringstrilogy/ (Houghton Mifflin Tolkien website) http://www.thetolkienwiki.org (One of the Tolkien wikis) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien (the Wikipedia entry) http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ (Ardalambion) I'm not sure how good some of these are, so would appreciate hearing opinions on them. But there must be a lot of _good_ ones out there that I've not mentioned. Anyone? Christopher -- --- Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:45:56 -0500 From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 14:49:45 -0700 Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.63.59 X-Trace: sv3-KkGl/m3u6FWmhMbk7HmcB3TpeAsHhLAUG+7EbP6lNQkaafDzSjD0mpKrsegC79GFgO3E8ooMqFePEkD!TYvZrlgcBli0QzqGF+JEtE6Gj1ULErzL4QGhylD+1ZNrPPY3lrYHzJ8zAuGZgatCskwk9sji77Pt!ufG7gja3 X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155190 In article , spamgard@blueyonder.co.uk says... > I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed > them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look > through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien > websites are? > > Here are a few to start it off: > > http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) > http://www.tolkien.co.uk/ (HarperCollins Tolkien website) > http://www.houghtonmifflinbooks.com/features/lordoftheringstrilogy/ > (Houghton Mifflin Tolkien website) > http://www.thetolkienwiki.org (One of the Tolkien wikis) > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J._R._R._Tolkien (the Wikipedia entry) > http://www.uib.no/People/hnohf/ (Ardalambion) > > I'm not sure how good some of these are, so would appreciate hearing > opinions on them. But there must be a lot of _good_ ones out there that > I've not mentioned. > > Anyone? http://www.istari.f9.co.uk/tolkien/ (Cave of Lost Scrolls) http://www.forodrim.org/gobennas/chron_en.html (The Chroniclers of Arda) http://www.forodrim.org/daeron/md_hm.html#blt1 (What's in the History of Middle-earth?) http://rover.wiesbaden.netsurf.de/~lalaith/M-earth.html (Lalaith's Middle-earth Science Pages) http://users.cybercity.dk/~bkb1782/tolkien/starsframe.html (THE STARS OF ARDA) -- Tar-Elenion He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long ago did thee this hurt. ###### From: "Atalante" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 00:11:53 +0100 Organization: freedom2surf Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: i-195-137-81-76.freedom2surf.net X-Trace: news.freedom2surf.net 1087341114 11407 195.137.81.76 (15 Jun 2004 23:11:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@freedom2surf.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 23:11:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news2.telebyte.nl!stargate.gts.cz!news.freedom2surf.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155204 But there must be a lot of _good_ ones out there that > I've not mentioned. www.councilofelrond.com - though I suppose I have to say that because I run the encyclopaedia and library there ;) but anyway, it is brilliant - huge amount of resources www.john-howe.com - not *quite* tolkien but a lot of tolkien-related art ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 18:22:07 -0500 From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Tue, 15 Jun 2004 16:25:52 -0700 Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.63.59 X-Trace: sv3-rWUcfZs9Ub6iT0XQYY8amghDj0dM+POy3J8brjCCdY/Y8PBBuzobWWQN73X/ew9u5FtGS3ibvztEODf!fzxLimdErKFM+TphBW0Qls92AHHctEOCMyYWEDJwYn7ctpZ4f/Em63RTI0fxcKObpn8e6HryhjXO!F6H2zmYy X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news2.euro.net!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155207 In article , atalante@f2s.com says... > But there must be a lot of _good_ ones out there that > > I've not mentioned. > > www.councilofelrond.com - though I suppose I have to say that because I run > the encyclopaedia and library there ;) but anyway, it is brilliant - huge > amount of resources Interesting, but looking at your entry for the First Age, it says: "The First Age is the first, and shortest, of the recorded ages of Middle-earth. It is difficult to nail down the exact start of the First Age, but it would appear that it began with the arrival of Fingolfin in Middle-earth, and the rising of the Sun and Moon[...]". The First Age was the longest (ca. 4800 years or so), and began with the Awakening of the Elves, long before Fingolfin arrived in Middle-earth. -- Tar-Elenion He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long ago did thee this hurt. ###### From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: 15 Jun 2004 19:48:14 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 68.92.39.23 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1087354095 13562 127.0.0.1 (16 Jun 2004 02:48:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 02:48:15 +0000 (UTC) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in2p3.fr!proxad.net!209.98.13.50.MISMATCH!phobos.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!green.octanews.net!news-out.octanews.net!news.glorb.com!postnews2.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155226 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in message news:... > I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed > them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look > through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien > websites are? > > Here are a few to start it off: > > http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) Everything at the Encyclopedia of Arda has to be carefully compared against the books. That site gets a lot of stuff wrong, or is incomplete. It's really no better than a David Day book. ###### From: tr2267@hotmail.com Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: 16 Jun 2004 05:46:40 GMT Lines: 18 Message-ID: <2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de> References: <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com> X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 8fHIuGRjdc2ZCGH6zmzhvQn8nZDovKxUZllT7B4908M7syfoI0 X-Orig-Path: not-for-mail Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155235 In article <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com>, Michael Martinez wrote: >"Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in message >news:... >> I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed >> them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look >> through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien >> websites are? >> >> Here are a few to start it off: >> >> http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) > >Everything at the Encyclopedia of Arda has to be carefully compared >against the books. That site gets a lot of stuff wrong, or is >incomplete. Such as? ###### Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? From: thomas-ml@deniau.org (Thomas Deniau) Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 08:19:15 +0200 Message-ID: <1gfgs2c.8gkyoib2ddcN%thomas-ml@deniau.org> References: Organization: Nousoft User-Agent: MacSOUP/2.6b2 (Mac OS X version 10.3.4) Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Jun 2004 08:19:15 MEST NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.56.170.115 X-Trace: 1087366755 news5-e.free.fr 7698 81.56.170.115:49185 X-Complaints-To: abuse@proxad.net Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!feeder2-1.proxad.net!news5-e.free.fr!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155239 Christopher Kreuzer wrote: > But there must be a lot of _good_ ones out there that > I've not mentioned. If you speak French, http://www.jrrvf.com is among the best. (especially the forums, where the signal/noise ratio is particularly high) -- Thomas Deniau ###### From: "Atalante" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:02:16 +0100 Organization: freedom2surf Lines: 8 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: i-195-137-81-76.freedom2surf.net X-Trace: news.freedom2surf.net 1087387336 23330 195.137.81.76 (16 Jun 2004 12:02:16 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@freedom2surf.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 12:02:16 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.telebyte.nl!stargate.gts.cz!news.freedom2surf.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155253 > The First Age was the longest (ca. 4800 years or so), and began with the > Awakening of the Elves, long before Fingolfin arrived in Middle-earth. > Hmmmm can you give me a ref for that? I was digging through everything to try and find an official start date for the First Age, and everything I saw led to it starting with the return of the Noldor. ###### NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 11:24:39 -0500 From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 09:28:03 -0700 Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 56 NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.169.63.59 X-Trace: sv3-HKI7FCgZ7Xvtpunh4lqAtMN9EcdBzZ1mCHCWV7+CQ1EHKpnAnUmet7D30RWH/z0A4gYhaL7aKkhZI3y!s1nlBdNxOOb1/hRwN6isG5i2f5qJEXlyCbbt4XeNNBWQvtvuaQ0B+wgbOhgIcwHAFp3OIFjRqNET!YdcS+r5N X-Complaints-To: abuse@comcast.net X-DMCA-Complaints-To: dmca@comcast.net X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-and-DMCA-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Postfilter: 1.1 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!feed.news.tiscali.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!border2.nntp.dca.giganews.com!border1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!local1.nntp.dca.giganews.com!nntp.comcast.com!news.comcast.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155263 In article , atalante@f2s.com says... > > The First Age was the longest (ca. 4800 years or so), and began with the > > Awakening of the Elves, long before Fingolfin arrived in Middle-earth. > > > Hmmmm can you give me a ref for that? I was digging through everything to > try and find an official start date for the First Age, and everything I saw > led to it starting with the return of the Noldor. In the Annals of Aman, Of the Beginning of Time and its Reckoning, paragraph §10 (page 51 of the HM cloth edition): "In those days, in the Year one thousand and fifty of the Valar, the Elves awoke in Kuivienen and the First Age of the Children of Iluvatar began." Also WotJ, Tale of Years, introductory remarks by CT (pgs 342-343): "In the manuscript as it was originally written the Elder Days began with the Awakening of the Elves: 'Here begin the Elder Days, or the First Age of the Children of Iluvatar'; but 'the Elder Days' was struck out and does not appear in the typescript." In PoME, Tale of Years of the Second Age, The Tale of Years in the Latter Ages (page 172) starts off: "The First Age was the longest." Looking at the entry for Galadriel: "Tall and beautiful, with the golden hair of her Teleri mother, Eärwen, she was called Altariel in Eldamar." Her mother had silver hair, not golden. The golden hair was inherited from her father: "Even among the Eldar she [Galadriel] was accounted beautiful, and her hair was held a marvel unmatched. It was golden like the hair of her father and of her foremother Indis, but richer and more radiant, for its gold was touched by some memory of the starlike silver of her mother". UT, History of G&C The entry continues: "This was translated as Galadriel, meaning "Lady of the Light", in Sindarin." The translation given by JRRT is: "'maiden crowned with a garland of bright radiance'" (PoME. Shibboleth of Feanor, pg 347) Or from Letter: "'Maiden crowned with gleaming hair'". See also the App. to The Silmarillion, entry under 'kal-' The entry continues: "The Elven queen of Lothlórien," "Celeborn and Galadriel returned to Lórien, and were welcomed by the people. There they dwelt while the Third Age lasted, but they took no title of King or Queen; for they said that they were only guardians of this small but fair realm, the last eastward outpost of the Elves." UT, History of G&C -- Tar-Elenion He is a warrior, and a spirit of wrath. In every stroke that he deals he sees the Enemy who long ago did thee this hurt. ###### From: "Luminaria" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 13:01:32 -0400 Organization: lanatAT@rcnDOT.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2720.3000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2739.300 Lines: 28 Message-ID: <40d07cea$0$3022$61fed72c@news.rcn.com> X-Trace: DXC=Pd]IB54gZ3^BSY?2J=^5X X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp.abs.net!rcn!feed3.news.rcn.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155267 "Christopher Kreuzer" ... > I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed > them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look > through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien > websites are? > > > http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) Heya, This one is my absolute favorite. Don't ask me why... ok... well.. it's easy to navigate and easy to search for things even if you can only remember bits and pieces of something you read a long time ago. -- Take care, Be well, Lisa lanat@rcn.com ###### From: "Atalante" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:21:54 +0100 Organization: freedom2surf Lines: 5 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: i-195-137-81-76.freedom2surf.net X-Trace: news.freedom2surf.net 1087417314 32210 195.137.81.76 (16 Jun 2004 20:21:54 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@freedom2surf.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 20:21:54 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news2.telebyte.nl!stargate.gts.cz!news.freedom2surf.net!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155280 Thanks for those ... the encyclo is *getting* there - I've spent the last year going through all the entries that had been put in before I joined the site - its a very long and laborious job .... but I'm getting there ###### From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: 16 Jun 2004 14:12:25 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 41 Message-ID: <3b26e128.0406161312.13132557@posting.google.com> References: <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com> <2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.30.245.211 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1087420348 2769 127.0.0.1 (16 Jun 2004 21:12:28 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 21:12:28 +0000 (UTC) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!nx01.iad01.newshosting.com!meganewsservers.com!feeder2.on.meganewsservers.com!news.glorb.com!postnews2.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155284 tr2267@hotmail.com wrote in message news:<2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de>... > In article <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com>, > Michael Martinez wrote: > >"Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in message > >news:... > >> I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed > >> them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look > >> through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien > >> websites are? > >> > >> Here are a few to start it off: > >> > >> http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/ (Encyclopedia of Arda) > > > >Everything at the Encyclopedia of Arda has to be carefully compared > >against the books. That site gets a lot of stuff wrong, or is > >incomplete. > > Such as? Grab five passages at random. Do it by Friday, because I don't think I'll be posting here after that for a while. I have other things I need to focus on. If you can grab five passages, of which I cannot show at least one, to be EITHER in error or incomplete, I will retract what I said above. Now, it may very well be there are five passages in the Encyclopedia of Arda which ARE error-free and complete. I have not found them, but I allow they might exist. That said, I am giving you a chance to participate in a fair test of the site's reliability. I will respond to up to four replies with such citations. By Friday. After that time, I'll probably have lost all interest in these discussions for a few months and you can all go back to telling each other in your polite, non-arrogant, non-inflammatory, completely sane and honest ways of how I have always ruined the news groups and started all the flame wars and never admit to being wrong, etc. ###### Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? References: <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com> <2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de> X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 49 Message-ID: <704Ac.18$25.4631@news.uchicago.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1087425667 128.135.12.7 (Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:41:07 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 17:41:07 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: 704Ac-2333-25-4650@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: 0bdbc590 e73cf91e fec70250 7c2defb9 9d620842 Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:41:07 GMT Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155305 Quoth tr2267@hotmail.com in article <2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de>: > Michael Martinez wrote: > >Everything at the Encyclopedia of Arda has to be carefully compared > >against the books. That site gets a lot of stuff wrong, or is > >incomplete. > Such as? By and large, I find the EoA to be pretty reliable, so I'm also interested in seeing a few representative examples of what Michael is referring to here. But I'll admit that I've seen at least one set of claims there that disagrees with my understanding of the texts, which presumably shouldn't happen (that is, if the texts are ambiguous, that ambiguity should at least be mentioned). (No, I'm not trying to assert that my opinion is always right, but we can only judge things based on our own perception.) The example I'm thinking of involves several statements on the site connected to Saruman's Orc-Man breeding. For example, the entry for "Half-orcs" says that "Like Sauron's Uruk-hai, they could withstand sunlight." I don't know of any clear evidence that any of Sauron's Orcs could withstand sunlight as Saruman's Uruk-hai did. And the FotR "Movie-goer's Guide" states unambiguously that Saruman did not create his Uruk-hai, despite what I think are reasonable arguments that he did (and that "Uruk" is the name of a class of Orcs, not of a specific breed). I've discussed the issue at length with the creator of the site, and while I don't think we convinced each other, I'd like to think that we at least came to respect the other's position a little bit. But whether for lack of time or hesitance to add too many "maybes" to the site, the original firm statements are still online. I wonder if some small part of Michael's concern about the EoA's reliability comes from their discussion of Balrog wings? They try to be impartial, but even I can see places where Michael would probably object to their arguments, and they do seem to settle on the "no wings" position. Steuard Jensen P.S. While I'm responding to this thread, I can't resist the opportunity to mention my own Tolkien Meta-FAQ and the associated FAQs and essays, at http://tolkien.slimy.com/. It's not anything close to the Encyclopedia of Arda or Ardalambion in scope, but it does shed a little light on some of the more subtle points of Tolkien lore that are often not covered (or not covered as well) elsewhere. ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3b26e128.0406151848.6bc74ba8@posting.google.com> <2ja560Fulb1cU2@uni-berlin.de> <704Ac.18$25.4631@news.uchicago.edu> Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1409 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1409 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 22:44:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.162.58 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1087425842 82.43.162.58 (Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:44:02 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2004 23:44:02 BST Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!216.196.110.149.MISMATCH!border2.nntp.ams.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155306 Steuard Jensen wrote: > P.S. While I'm responding to this thread, I can't resist the > opportunity to mention my own Tolkien Meta-FAQ and the associated FAQs > and essays, at http://tolkien.slimy.com/. It's not anything close to > the Encyclopedia of Arda or Ardalambion in scope, but it does shed a > little light on some of the more subtle points of Tolkien lore that > are often not covered (or not covered as well) elsewhere. How could I forget _that_ website!!! That is number one on _my_ list. :-) ###### From: Rabid anti-tolkienian wagnerito Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Best Tolkien websites? Date: Fri, 18 Jun 2004 22:05:58 +0200 Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de YBbBpEzLoUAhvdL62l7tcQjZSvE8Guxyl6YgooULo8EPv7bSE= X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) X-No-Archive: yes Path: nightfall.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!not-for-mail Xref: nightfall.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:155540 On Tue, 15 Jun 2004 21:26:14 GMT, "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote: >I've got a huge list of Tolkien websites in my favorites list. I grabbed >them from a website a few years ago, but have never had time to look >through them all. I was wondering what people's favorite Tolkien >websites are? Piece of cake. Hands down: http://www.utexas.edu/courses/wagner/home.html