From: Brenda Selwyn Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Tolkien & Oxfordshire Mythology (was: Ch.8: "Fog on the Barrow Downs") Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:49:06 +0100 Lines: 69 Message-ID: References: <46mp405nreg0b3rnqs8eo5otqe06ncb7j6@4ax.com> <8bo450l43c7bt9iodld2r8hq6lg0niqmkf@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: matson.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1080989333 13229 80.177.217.209 (3 Apr 2004 10:48:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 10:48:53 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!neupina.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:147566 >"Raven" wrote: >"Brenda Selwyn" skrev i en meddelelse >news:bgqh50d1ebkdfvhfqa9r9iti475tuqsecc@4ax.com... > >> Wayland's Smithy, >> an impressive Neolithic long barrow on the Ridgeway in Oxfordshire, is >> supposed to be home to Wayland, smith to the Saxon gods, who was said >> to be "of the race of elves". It was said that if a horse and a >> silver coin were left outside the barrow at sundown, in the morning >> the horse would be new shod and the penny gone. Given his interests >> and the location of the barrow so close to Oxford, It's difficult to >> imagine Tolkien not knowing about this. > > "Wayland" seems to be a cognate to "Vaulund" or "Vølund", who in Norse >mythology was a very skillful smith. Though not smith to the Asagods. In >one modern Danish retelling (by Ebbe Kløvedal Reich, whose middle name is >the Danish translation of Rivendell; he grew up in a commune of that name) >he had a supernatural wife, a fairy wife you might say. He was abducted by >a wicked king and held in thraldom on an islet in a lake, hamstrung after an >escape attempt. He had his revenge and escape when he slew the king's sons, >giving the as yet unknowing king their skulls resmithied as drinking bowls, >impregnated his daughter, and flew away like Icarus and his father with >wings that he had skilfully smithied with feathers that had been brought to >him. > The old Norse knew the value of a good revenge. :-) Yes, that's the bloke. My knowledge of Norse and Saxon mythology isn't too good, Jennifer Westwood's "Albion: A Guide to Legendary Britain" (which I have here) says Wayland is the Saxon equivalent of Vaulund, and goes on to tell much the same story as you do. The book says there is evidence to suggest the barrow has been associated with Wayland since Saxon times, but the horse-shoeing legend is probably more recent (i.e. less than 900 hundred years old!). I'd be interested to know how well Tolkien knew that part of Oxfordshire (or Berkshire as it would have been in his day: it was redesignated by the Boundary Commission in 1974). There are a lot of barrows in that area of the Downs, including a group called the Seven Barrows (a misnomer as there are many more than 7 there). I've not been to that particular site for about 30 years and I wonder how much it looks like Tolkien's description. I remember it being pretty spooky when I went there on a school trip when I was about nine. About two miles from Wayland's Smithy is the Uffington White Horse, the only genuinely ancient chalk horse in the UK. In former times it was cleaned and re-whitened in an annual ceremony known as The Scouring of the White Horse. At the foot of the bank on which it is carved stands a conical bare-topped mound known as Dragon Hill, being where St George slew the dragon. The legend is that dragon's blood killed the grass, which has never re-grown. Finally, a few miles away is the Blowing Stone, a small standing stone with holes in, which if one blows into it in the right way, one can get a horn-like sound. It was reputedly used by King Alfred to summon his countrymen to fight against the Danes. Brenda -- ************************************************************************* Brenda Selwyn "In England's green and pleasant land" "The difference between America and England is that Americans think 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long way." - Earle Hitchner ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & Oxfordshire Mythology (was: Ch.8: "Fog on the Barrow Downs") Date: Sat, 03 Apr 2004 03:50:03 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <46mp405nreg0b3rnqs8eo5otqe06ncb7j6@4ax.com> <8bo450l43c7bt9iodld2r8hq6lg0niqmkf@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.93/32.576 English (American) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 27 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.vmunix.org!news2.euro.net!62.253.162.219.MISMATCH!newsrout1.ntli.net!news.ntli.net!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:147567 On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 11:49:06 +0100, in alt.fan.tolkien Brenda Selwyn wrote: > >Yes, that's the bloke. My knowledge of Norse and Saxon mythology >isn't too good, Jennifer Westwood's "Albion: A Guide to Legendary >get a horn-like sound. It was reputedly used by King Alfred to summon >his countrymen to fight against the Danes. > >Brenda IIRC, up on the Berkshire Downs, there is a sign to Buckleberry (or is it Brandybuck?). Anyway there IS a sign. To the best of my knowledge, based on Carpenter's biography of JRRT, JRRT was very familiar with the countryside of Berkshire and Oxfordshire. He loved it and, when he had an automobile, he drove around it with his family. the softrat "I feel like I'm beating my head against a dead horse." mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "The race is not always to the swift, or the battle to the strong...but that is the way to bet." Damon Runyan ###### From: "Alan Reynolds" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & Oxfordshire Mythology (was: Ch.8: "Fog on the Barrow Downs") Date: Sat, 3 Apr 2004 16:14:16 +0100 Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <46mp405nreg0b3rnqs8eo5otqe06ncb7j6@4ax.com> <8bo450l43c7bt9iodld2r8hq6lg0niqmkf@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 217.134.7.175 X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 1081005326 17350 217.134.7.175 (3 Apr 2004 15:15:26 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Apr 2004 15:15:26 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1106 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:147571 "Brenda Selwyn" wrote in message news:tb5t605vcoo8ttrhd77cvgrbb49jlq24on@4ax.com... > >"Raven" wrote: > > > I'd be interested to know how well Tolkien knew that part of > Oxfordshire (or Berkshire as it would have been in his day: it was > redesignated by the Boundary Commission in 1974). > > In _Letters of Tolkien_, JRRT says that Farmer Giles of Ham is a story definitely located in Oxfordshire and Bucks, with a brief excursion into Wales; the places in it are largely named, and that the incident between the dog and dragon occurs near Rollright, where there is a circle of standing stones. The villages in Farmer Giles are real place names in Ox/bucks: Ham (=Thame), and Worminghall, and Oakley for example. And in _The Road to Middle earth_, Tom shippey points out that Brill in Oxfordshire is a shortening of Bree hill; and Chetwode is not far away. Buckland is in Oxon too; and Loudwater is just down the road from me. No ford, though. Alan > > "The difference between America and England is that Americans think > 100 years is a long time, while the English think 100 miles is a long > way." - Earle Hitchner Love it!