User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:45:52 +1100 Subject: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074487552 26115 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138685 Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? Here's an overview: * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone * Haldir - unbelievably camp * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) * Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) * Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. * Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... Sure, let's appreciate how difficult Tolkien's elf-vision is to portray: radiantly beautiful, clear sing-song voices that uplify the heart etc. Unfortunately most of the elves (and I really love the elves from the book) are only a bit better than manequins. What do you reckon? Tim ###### From: "~Nins~" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.215.224.35 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mchsi.com X-Trace: attbi_s02 1074490411 12.215.224.35 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:33:31 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:33:31 GMT Organization: MediaCom High Speed Internet Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 05:33:31 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!nntp.infostrada.it!xmission!hammer.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!attbi_s02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138695 timananda wrote: || Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the || imagination, I definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at || some parts). || || What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially || speaking? Well, I think there could have been more about the elves in the movie. Elrond was a character that was well-developed by Tolkien, a central character. I think the harshness portrayed in the movie was to show the seriousness of the problem of the ring, but we see in ROTK that there is a softer side to him. ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 23 Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 22:57:19 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074491842 148.63.111.21 (Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:57:22 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jan 2004 23:57:22 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138699 In article , veganpower@optushome.com.au says... > > Here's an overview: > * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone > * Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care > to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more > preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... This was due to Jackson shooting them in slow motion. I have some issues with that choice. Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### X-Abuse-Report: abuse@teranews.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:02:22 GMT Lines: 20 From: Chris Csernica User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.1; en-US; rv:1.6) Gecko/20040113 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves References: In-Reply-To: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!router1.news.adelphia.net!router2.news.adelphia.net!nntpserver.com.MISMATCH!newsfeed-east.nntpserver.com!nntpserver.com!news.teranews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138714 timananda wrote: > What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? Elrond and Legolas were the best of the lot even if they weren't quite right. Elrond always came across in the books as kindly. I can't recall that he ever had a harsh word for anyone, and it was erring on the side of kindliness that he wished to avoid sending Merry and Pippin along on the quest. In the movie, Gandalf and Elrond have switched positions, with Gandalf being the one with erring judgement. The only purpose I could see to this otherwise meaningless character alteration would be to make Elrond out to be a real bastard. All the others sounded either flamboyant or stoned except for Arwen, who merely seemed uncertain of her lines from time to time. And why were they all blond? That's not at all justifiable from the books as an elven racial characteristic. -- Chris Csernica ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:24:09 +0200 Organization: National Technical University of Athens, Greece Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-p121.otenet.gr X-Trace: ulysses.noc.ntua.gr 1074501070 20747 212.205.253.121 (19 Jan 2004 08:31:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:31:10 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news.ntua.gr!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138719 "timananda" wrote in message news:BC31AC30.49B98%veganpower@optushome.com.au... > Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I > definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > > What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > > Here's an overview: > * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone > * Haldir - unbelievably camp > * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) > * Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) > * Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when > necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. Ugh. He was entirely unfunny, and went mystical every so often. I'd rather have the more lighthearted Legolas of the books. Still make him as efficient a warrior as portrayed in the films, but geez, is it so bad to show him capable of occasionally *laughing*? Every other character laughs, whether Man, Dwarf or Hobbit... But it seems to be a rule that Jackson's Elves mustn't break their decorum and gravitas. Ugh again. In the book we constantly see elves making jokes and laughing, from the very first time we see them with Gildor Inglorion... > Sure, let's appreciate how difficult Tolkien's elf-vision is to portray: > radiantly beautiful, clear sing-song voices that uplify the heart etc. And also able to laugh merrily.... Aris Katsaris ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:27:24 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074500845 26116 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138718 > From: Chris Csernica > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:02:22 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > timananda wrote: > >> What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > > Elrond and Legolas were the best of the lot even if they weren't quite > right. Elrond always came across in the books as kindly. I can't recall > that he ever had a harsh word for anyone, and it was erring on the side > of kindliness that he wished to avoid sending Merry and Pippin along on > the quest. In the movie, Gandalf and Elrond have switched positions, > with Gandalf being the one with erring judgement. The only purpose I > could see to this otherwise meaningless character alteration would be to > make Elrond out to be a real bastard. > > All the others sounded either flamboyant or stoned except for Arwen, who > merely seemed uncertain of her lines from time to time. > > And why were they all blond? That's not at all justifiable from the > books as an elven racial characteristic. > > -- Chris Csernica Well, we didn't actually see too many elves without helmets. Arwen and Elrond certainly aren't blonde. If memory serves, Glorfindel is identified as blonde. Do blonde elves have more fun? ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:59:01 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074502742 16588 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138724 > "timananda" wrote in message > news:BC31AC30.49B98%veganpower@optushome.com.au... >> Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I >> definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). >> >> What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? >> >> Here's an overview: >> * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone >> * Haldir - unbelievably camp >> * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) >> * Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) >> * Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when >> necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. > > Ugh. He was entirely unfunny, and went mystical every so often. > I'd rather have the more lighthearted Legolas of the books. Still make > him as efficient a warrior as portrayed in the films, but geez, is it so > bad to show him capable of occasionally *laughing*? > > Every other character laughs, whether Man, Dwarf or Hobbit... But it > seems to be a rule that Jackson's Elves mustn't break their decorum > and gravitas. > > Ugh again. In the book we constantly see elves making jokes and > laughing, from the very first time we see them with Gildor > Inglorion... > >> Sure, let's appreciate how difficult Tolkien's elf-vision is to portray: >> radiantly beautiful, clear sing-song voices that uplify the heart etc. > > And also able to laugh merrily.... > > Aris Katsaris Well, in terms of the classical usage of the word, you'd have to say they are a very 'gay' race. Maybe PJ missed that point and that's why Haldir appeared as such a queen!! ###### Message-ID: <400BA77B.3F117559@1.au> From: Jussi Jaatinen <1@1.au> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 09:45:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.21.34.186 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@nokia.com X-Trace: news1.nokia.com 1074505533 172.21.34.186 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:45:33 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 11:45:33 EET Organization: Nokia Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.tiscali.de!uio.no!193.75.75.20.MISMATCH!news.eunet.no!fi.sn.net!newsfeed2.fi.sn.net!news-stoc.telia.net!news-stoa.telia.net!telia.net!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsfeed1.nokia.com!news1.nokia.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138731 timananda wrote: > Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I > definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone At the end of RotK, I think they got Galadriel exactly right. However overall the Elves, particularly High Elves, are practically impossible to convey properly visually. I mean, how do you get the Light of Aman from a regular cinema projector? You don't. > * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) She sounds constantly out of breath. -JJ ###### From: "The American" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 10:42:05 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <100nume4lv2sf4e@corp.supernews.com> References: X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 41 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in2p3.fr!oleane.net!oleane!freenix!sn-xit-02!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138754 "timananda" wrote in message news:BC31E01B.49C4B%veganpower@optushome.com.au... > > From: Chris Csernica > > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 08:02:22 GMT > > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > > > timananda wrote: > > > >> What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > > > > Elrond and Legolas were the best of the lot even if they weren't quite > > right. Elrond always came across in the books as kindly. I can't recall > > that he ever had a harsh word for anyone, and it was erring on the side > > of kindliness that he wished to avoid sending Merry and Pippin along on > > the quest. In the movie, Gandalf and Elrond have switched positions, > > with Gandalf being the one with erring judgement. The only purpose I > > could see to this otherwise meaningless character alteration would be to > > make Elrond out to be a real bastard. > > > > All the others sounded either flamboyant or stoned except for Arwen, who > > merely seemed uncertain of her lines from time to time. > > > > And why were they all blond? That's not at all justifiable from the > > books as an elven racial characteristic. > > > > -- Chris Csernica > > Well, we didn't actually see too many elves without helmets. Arwen and > Elrond certainly aren't blonde. If memory serves, Glorfindel is identified > as blonde. Do blonde elves have more fun? > If being killed and then reborn is fun, then yes. :-) T.A. ###### Lines: 36 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: carl032163@aol.com (Carl032163) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 19 Jan 2004 16:42:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040119114215.22792.00000296@mb-m18.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!4.24.21.153!chcgil2-snh1.gtei.net!news.bbnplanet.com!washdc3-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138768 timananda veganpower@optushome.com.au wrote: << Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? Here's an overview: * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone * Haldir - unbelievably camp * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) * Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) * Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. * Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... Sure, let's appreciate how difficult Tolkien's elf-vision is to portray: radiantly beautiful, clear sing-song voices that uplify the heart etc. Unfortunately most of the elves (and I really love the elves from the book) are only a bit better than manequins. What do you reckon? Tim >> Frankly I have never liked the elves. A bunch of pompous, overbearing assholes and ME is better off without them. The only elf I ever liked was Galadriel and to risk going against the majority I really liked what Cate Blanchette did with the part. Would've liked to seen more of her in ROTK (there could have been a quick scene showing the defense of Lothlorien, would have explained why the elves provided no support to Minas Tirith). As for the portrayal of Arwen its quite simple. Liv Tyler had to expend so much her brain power pronouncing elvish that she didn't have any left for acting. ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: wxbethersxw@aol.com (WxBethersxW) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 19 Jan 2004 17:13:58 GMT References: Organization: AOL Bertelsmann Online GmbH & Co. KG http://www.germany.aol.com Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.euro.net!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!38.144.126.70.MISMATCH!feed3.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138772 >I'd rather have the more lighthearted Legolas of the books. >Still make >him as efficient a warrior as portrayed in the films, but geez, is it so >bad to show him capable of occasionally *laughing*? >Aris Katsaris Well, Movie!Legolas *smiles* from time to time: in ROTK at the Black Gate when Gimli mentions he would not have thought to die fighting side by side with an elf Legolas answers with a smile: "What about side by side with a friend?" and Legolas smiles at Frodo when nearly everyone of the fellowship gathers in the bedroom. But Movie!Legolas hardly ever sits down. Actually the only occasion when he sits on a chair - at the Council of Elrond - he stands up at the very first opportunity. Otherwise he's always on his feet, standing by even when everybody else has settled down. Oh, and he never sleeps (is seen sleeping). Bethers ###### From: "A Tsar Is Born" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 38 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:07:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.132.40 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1074535622 162.84.132.40 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:07:02 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 13:07:02 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!d1cafec9!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138783 "timananda" wrote in message news:BC31AC30.49B98%veganpower@optushome.com.au... > Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I > definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > > What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > > Here's an overview: > * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone > * Haldir - unbelievably camp > * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) > * Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) > * Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when > necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. > * Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care > to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more > preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... With the SOLE exception of Orlando Bloom, NONE of them were pretty enough. I'd always imagined Galadriel as looking like Elizabeth Schwarzkopf c. 1955 (that is, long after the Hitler period), beautiful but with enormous knowledge of pain in her past. For Arwen (who would also be Luthien, in a vision while Aragorn sang the Lay) I was thinking of ballerina Carla Fracci. She would be a glorious PRESENCE without actually saying anything until after the quest was over. Hugo had gravitas, but looked far too ill-tempered. Elrond is too experienced to lose his temper over little things. Or even big things. Hugo was too young as well as too unattractive. Celeborn -- well, who cares? Nobody who reads the books likes him anyway. Tsar Parmathule ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:26:34 +0200 Organization: National Technical University of Athens, Greece Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-t201.otenet.gr X-Trace: ulysses.noc.ntua.gr 1074537216 2376 62.103.252.201 (19 Jan 2004 18:33:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:33:36 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeder.edisontel.com!tiscali!newsfeed1.ip.tiscali.net!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news.ntua.gr!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138791 "WxBethersxW" wrote in message news:20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com... > >I'd rather have the more lighthearted Legolas of the books. > > >Still make > >him as efficient a warrior as portrayed in the films, but geez, is it so > >bad to show him capable of occasionally *laughing*? > > >Aris Katsaris > > Well, Movie!Legolas *smiles* from time to time: *g* And that's the extent of it, isn't it... Aris Katsaris ###### Lines: 24 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 19 Jan 2004 21:34:23 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: usenet_offline-m21) Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040119163423.29815.00002813@mb-m21.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.netplace.de!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138857 In article , timananda writes: >Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I >definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > >What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > >Here's an overview: >* Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone >* Haldir - unbelievably camp What's funny is I saw him without the makup and he doesn't look at all like a drag queen in real life. Russ ---------------------- "Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction." - Ann Coulter 9/26/2002 ###### From: csernica@ihwy.com (Chris Csernica) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: 19 Jan 2004 13:57:07 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 28 Message-ID: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.91.147.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1074549428 4130 127.0.0.1 (19 Jan 2004 21:57:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:57:08 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138867 timananda wrote in message > Well, we didn't actually see too many elves without helmets. We saw a whole passel of elves without helmets. Every single one of them was blond. > Arwen and > Elrond certainly aren't blonde. They're also of mixed elven/human ancestry. Jackson clearly marked them off as such with dark hair. > If memory serves, Glorfindel is identified > as blonde. Possibly he was, except that being male he'd be blond. I don't recall either way, and I don't feel like looking it up just now. But so what? First, he wasn't in the movie. Second, Tolkien makes it clear in Sil and elsewhere that among the Noldor, dark hair was the norm except for among the children of Finarfin, such as Galadriel. She was *remarkable*, not typical, for her golden hair. > Do blonde elves have more fun? Apparently not, unless body-surfing on a mumak is fun. -- Chris Csernica ###### From: David Eppstein Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 14:07:33 -0800 Organization: Information and Computer Science, UC Irvine Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-4-109-134.oc.oc.cox.net User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.3b1 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: %L;%tM$D+%zkQ$zp8f/vAx*mr6T79jgxh,SC!$,8.r%HBe}KZ)iMb$tB.Z,30 3QLpj-NoP*NzsIC,boYU]bQ]H'y<#4ga3$21: Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.esat.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!xmission!news.cc.utah.edu!dog.ee.lbl.gov!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!eppstein Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138870 In article <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com>, csernica@ihwy.com (Chris Csernica) wrote: > Second, Tolkien makes it clear in Sil > and elsewhere that among the Noldor, dark hair was the norm except for > among the children of Finarfin, such as Galadriel. She was > *remarkable*, not typical, for her golden hair. Do we see any Noldo other than Galadriel in PJ's movies? I guess Elrond is 1/4 Noldorin... -- David Eppstein http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 00:10:42 +0200 Organization: National Technical University of Athens, Greece Lines: 33 Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-t153.otenet.gr X-Trace: ulysses.noc.ntua.gr 1074550665 33486 62.103.252.153 (19 Jan 2004 22:17:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@ulysses.noc.ntua.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 22:17:45 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news.ntua.gr!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138873 "Chris Csernica" wrote in message news:52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com... > timananda wrote in message > > > Well, we didn't actually see too many elves without helmets. > > We saw a whole passel of elves without helmets. Every single one of > them was blond. In ROTK, we see both black-haired and golden-haired elves accompanying Arwen. The elf that talks to her is black-haired. > > Arwen and Elrond certainly aren't blonde. > > They're also of mixed elven/human ancestry. Jackson clearly marked > them off as such with dark hair. Actually I don't think anything is said in the movies about their being half-elves, even though fans of the book know it... > > If memory serves, Glorfindel is identified > > as blonde. > > Possibly he was, except that being male he'd be blond. I don't recall > either way, and I don't feel like looking it up just now. His very name meant "Golden-haired", so yeah, he is. So was Thranduil, as described in The Hobbit Aris Katsaris ###### From: "Conrad B Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2055 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2055 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:14:24 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.89.90.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1074554064 138.89.90.90 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:14:24 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 18:14:24 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!216.196.98.140.MISMATCH!border1.nntp.ash.giganews.com!border2.nntp.ash.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!ef6ee649!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138887 "Chris Csernica" wrote in message news:52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com... > We saw a whole passel of elves without helmets. Every single one of > them was blond. No, not every one... but it certainly seemed to be the vast majority of them. > Second, Tolkien makes it clear in Sil and elsewhere that among the > Noldor, dark hair was the norm Not just the Noldor. The Teleri had predominantly dark hair as well. Only the Vanyar tended to be blonde - which is where Galadriel got it from, her grandmother was a Vanya. ###### From: loisillon@libertysurf.fr (loisillon) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: 19 Jan 2004 15:28:19 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 80.8.25.139 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1074554900 10631 127.0.0.1 (19 Jan 2004 23:28:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 23:28:20 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!eusc.inter.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138892 Chris Csernica wrote in message news:... > timananda wrote: > > > What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > > Elrond and Legolas were the best of the lot even if they weren't quite > right. Elrond always came across in the books as kindly. I can't recall > that he ever had a harsh word for anyone, and it was erring on the side > of kindliness that he wished to avoid sending Merry and Pippin along on > the quest. In the movie, Gandalf and Elrond have switched positions, > with Gandalf being the one with erring judgement. The only purpose I > could see to this otherwise meaningless character alteration would be to > make Elrond out to be a real bastard. > > All the others sounded either flamboyant or stoned except for Arwen, who > merely seemed uncertain of her lines from time to time. > > And why were they all blond? That's not at all justifiable from the > books as an elven racial characteristic. As far as I remember, Elrond does not have in the FoTR film the authority which it has in the book. Only the Elf who has got some character is Galadriel. Legolas is just sympathetic. But he has got good sight and jumps very slightly. Something of cat-like: -) Arwen, very well like a Madonna : -) ###### From: Eowyn's Pulsing Sphincter Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 16:37:09 -0800 Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.91/32.564 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.149.36.47 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.149.36.47 X-Trace: post.usenet.com 1074559177 206.149.36.47 (19 Jan 2004 18:39:37 -0600) Organization: Usenet.com http://www.usenet.com 100,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. The #1 Usenet Service on the Planet! Lines: 66 X-Comments: This message was posted through Usenet.com's, FREE publicly accessible Usenet Server - "post.usenet.com" X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Usenet.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!newsfeed2-zh.ip-plus.net!news2.ip-plus.net!news-out2.nuthinbutnews.com!local!post.usenet.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138916 **** Post for FREE via your newsreader at post.usenet.com **** On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 15:45:52 +1100, timananda wrote: >Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I >definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > >What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? > >Here's an overview: >* Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone Kate Blanchett's face looks goofy when she smiles. She looks wrong for the part of Galadriel. She's not beautiful enough. She's more the type who should play a rural woman in a movie like Deliverance. >* Haldir - unbelievably camp He was satisfactory. >* Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) Mediocre. Her voice is too breathy and low. It's a little silly. She's not good looking enough for her role either. >* Elrond - a bit harsh (although Hugo brought a certain gravitas) Horrible! The worst of all! When I see him, all I see is AGENT SMITH in robes and long hair. He has a really harsh, nasty, disgusted demeanor that is perfect for Agent Smith or a mean corporate executive, but totally wrong for an elf!!! >* Legolas - the best elf portrayal I think. Spoke nicely, passioantely when >necessary, but not syrupy or contrived. Legolas was pretty good, but his acting was mediocre. Maybe the fault was the director's. >* Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care >to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more >preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... Celeborn is absolutely perfect. I think this actor fit his role better than anyone else in the movie. I didn't find him sleepy to listen to either. I think he delivered his lines perfectly, unlike most of the actors in the movie, who delivered their lines awkwardly. >Sure, let's appreciate how difficult Tolkien's elf-vision is to portray: >radiantly beautiful, clear sing-song voices that uplify the heart etc. I think a talented director could have handled it well. I don't think Peter Jackson is talented. >Unfortunately most of the elves (and I really love the elves from the book) >are only a bit better than manequins. What do you reckon? I disagree. They just don't go into them in depth. But they're not like manequins. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= *** Usenet.com - The #1 Usenet Newsgroup Service on The Planet! *** http://www.usenet.com Unlimited Download - 19 Seperate Servers - 90,000 groups - Uncensored -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= ###### From: "seattle squirrell" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 17:12:21 -0800 Organization: University of Washington Lines: 53 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: D-128-95-217-162.dhcp4.washington.edu X-Trace: nntp3.u.washington.edu 1074561145 15164 (None) 140.142.17.37 X-Complaints-To: help@cac.washington.edu X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.u.washington.edu!140.142.17.34.MISMATCH!news.u.washington.edu!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138923 "timananda" wrote in message news:BC31AC30.49B98%veganpower@optushome.com.au... > Now, I'm not a big bagger of the movies my any stretch of the imagination, I > definitely enjoyed them (although disappointed at some parts). > > What do people think of how the elves are portrayed, especially speaking? [snip] Great thread idea! My thoughts: -Hugo Weaving did a great job at being Elrond, but he wasn't the kind, warm master of the Last Homely House that I had envisioned. -None of Legolas's good lines from the book made it into the movies; much as I appreciated Orlando Bloom's elf-looks, his lines were so trite that my friends and I couldn't help but laugh whenever he spoke. -Galadriel was considerably more intense than I had envisioned. Did not like "Galadriel goes demonic and passes the temptation" scene one bit. She was very beautiful, though, and her kindness of heart in the gift-giving scene impressed me very much. -Arwen didn't really impress me, except that they did a fabulous job of making her look like a Very Pretty Elf. As an aside, I found it very odd that she need to be escorted "by the safest roads" to the harbor in ROTK, when she had been sent out to look for Aragorn & Co. in FOTR, knowing that the Nine were abroad. But then, I have many mixed feelings about Arwen's role in the films anyway... -The Elves as a whole were much more Serious than I imagined them to be. I suppose they didn't need to be quite as merry as in, for example, TH (when they speak of how delicious it is to see Bilbo the hobbit on a pony, and minding him not to eat all the cakes), but they definitely could have 'lightened up'. This sounds like a lot of discontent. It's probably due to my imagination. I mean, when I read the books, I want to hear the elves doing what they do best, singing. I want to see them looking old, yet not old, and fairer than all else in ME. In short, I imagined such wonderful beings that I was probably doomed from the beginning to not be wholly satisfied with anyone's thespian interpretations of Tolkien's elves. On the other hand, when all is said and done, I was satisfied with the movie elves, with Arwen being the exception. Someone wrote earlier asking how one could possibly show the Light of Aman on the big screen - yes, and how could one really show the Elves on the screen exactly as each reader imagines? We all imagine differently, and I think the movie elves struck an acceptable balance. Seattle Squirrel ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 32 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:56:21 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074567384 148.63.111.21 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:56:24 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:56:24 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138935 In article <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com>, csernica@ihwy.com says... > timananda wrote in message > > > Well, we didn't actually see too many elves without helmets. > > We saw a whole passel of elves without helmets. Every single one of > them was blond. Well, in Rivendell we see dark-haired and red-haired Elves as well as blonde ones. The blondness, and the long hair, were ways to make them visually distinct. *shrug* > Possibly he was, except that being male he'd be blond. I don't recall > either way, and I don't feel like looking it up just now. But so what? > First, he wasn't in the movie. Second, Tolkien makes it clear in Sil > and elsewhere that among the Noldor, dark hair was the norm except for > among the children of Finarfin, such as Galadriel. She was > *remarkable*, not typical, for her golden hair. But we don't SEE a lot of Noldorin Elves in the movie. Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 21 Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 19:59:36 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074567579 148.63.111.21 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:59:39 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 20:59:39 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138936 In article , squirrell@fastmail.remove.fm says... > Someone wrote earlier asking how one > could possibly show the Light of Aman on the big screen They did make an attempt at it, though. If you notice Galadriel's eyes, instead of reflecting a single point of light the way most people's do, her eyes are reflecting an ring of lights circling her pupil. Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: jsolano199@aol.comlink (Jose L. Solano) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 20 Jan 2004 04:07:45 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040119230745.11326.00000469@mb-m05.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!205.188.226.97!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138949 >>* Celeborn - droning like he'd only just woken up: "where's Gandalf, I care >>to speak with him", luckily Gandalf was fighting the balrog, far more >>preferable than being put to sleep by Celeborn... > >Celeborn is absolutely perfect. I think this actor fit his role better >than anyone else in the movie. I didn't find him sleepy to listen to >either. I think he delivered his lines perfectly, unlike most of the >actors in the movie, who delivered their lines awkwardly. > If you think Marton Csokas is impressive as Celeborn, just watch him as Poggle the Lesser! Jose L. Solano ------------------------------- A devious, degenerate defender of the devil ###### From: David Eppstein Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:06:04 -0800 Organization: Information and Computer Science, UC Irvine Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: ip68-4-109-134.oc.oc.cox.net User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.3b1 (PPC Mac OS X) X-Face: %L;%tM$D+%zkQ$zp8f/vAx*mr6T79jgxh,SC!$,8.r%HBe}KZ)iMb$tB.Z,30 3QLpj-NoP*NzsIC,boYU]bQ]H'y<#4ga3$21: Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!sdd.hp.com!ihnp4.ucsd.edu!news.service.uci.edu!eppstein Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138961 In article , Eowyn's Pulsing Sphincter wrote: > >Here's an overview: > >* Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone > > Kate Blanchett's face looks goofy when she smiles. She looks wrong for > the part of Galadriel. She's not beautiful enough. She's more the type > who should play a rural woman in a movie like Deliverance. I thought she looked goofy in the TT EE gift-giving scene, but much better in Frodo's vision on Cirith Ungol. > >* Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) > > Mediocre. Her voice is too breathy and low. It's a little silly. She's > not good looking enough for her role either. Voice was fine for me but I wasn't impressed by her looks. The best elven scenes for me were the ones where they were traveling to the Havens (in the Shire in the FOTR EE and just prior to Arwen's vision of Eldarion in ROTK). Properly mysterious and remote. -- David Eppstein http://www.ics.uci.edu/~eppstein/ Univ. of California, Irvine, School of Information & Computer Science ###### From: Jeff Blanks Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:33:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.86.144.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074576782 209.86.144.75 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:33:02 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:33:02 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!34dcce6c!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138967 "Aris Katsaris" wrote: > In ROTK, we see both black-haired and golden-haired elves accompanying > Arwen. The elf that talks to her is black-haired. You mean in the movie? I saw a brunet (who, *pace* Tsar, I think was rather pretty enough). In fact, I don't recall seeing any Elves in the movie with BLACK hair--not even Hugo Weaving. I think the problem is that it seems JRRT mentions "golden" hair whenever an Elf is supposed to have it, but never explicitly mentions dark hair on anyone except Elrond (and maybe Arwen) in the narrative itself. (I'll leave aside Legolas' "dark head".) I can see how that might give rise to certain impressions. -- "There is no excellent beauty which hath not some strangeness in the proportion." --Sir Francis Bacon ###### From: Jeff Blanks Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves References: User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 21 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:37:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.86.144.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net 1074577033 209.86.144.75 (Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:37:13 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:37:13 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newshub.sdsu.edu!elnk-nf2-pas!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread1.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!34dcce6c!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138968 timananda wrote: > * Galadriel - monotonous, slow, syrupy drone At the line "I pass the test", Cate Blanchett positively *mumbles*. Elves might talk to themselves, but they *don't mumble*. > * Haldir - unbelievably camp Oh, I wouldn't know about that, but I agree with the other assessments. As I've said elsewhere, though, Orlando Bloom and Craig Parker are really playing Glorfindel, though in different ways. > Unfortunately most of the elves (and I really love the elves from the book) > are only a bit better than manequins. Generally agreed. -- "There is no excellent beauty which hath not some strangeness in the proportion." --Sir Francis Bacon ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:15:01 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074579301 14479 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.telebyte.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!news.cambrium.nl!newsfeed.wxs.nl!news-x2.support.nl!newsfeed.pacific.net.au!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138977 > From: David Eppstein > Organization: Information and Computer Science, UC Irvine > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Mon, 19 Jan 2004 21:06:04 -0800 > Subject: Re: The movie elves > [snip] > The best elven scenes for me were the ones where they were traveling to > the Havens (in the Shire in the FOTR EE and just prior to Arwen's vision > of Eldarion in ROTK). Properly mysterious and remote. For me, the best elf scenes were the bits which showed Legolas' smooth "special" abilities... * swinging up on the horse's back * getting on top of the elephant * even the sliding down the stairs bit and firing an arrow simultaneously * shooting the orcs in Moria (which really annoyed me though that he couldn't kill the one orc running in to set off the bomb at Helm's Deep with two shots...) * Perhaps the scenes of the last alliance of Elves and Men was pretty impressive visually. Tim ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:16:02 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074579362 14479 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138978 > From: Jeff Blanks > Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 05:33:02 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > "Aris Katsaris" wrote: > >> In ROTK, we see both black-haired and golden-haired elves accompanying >> Arwen. The elf that talks to her is black-haired. > > You mean in the movie? I saw a brunet (who, *pace* Tsar, I think was > rather pretty enough). In fact, I don't recall seeing any Elves in the > movie with BLACK hair--not even Hugo Weaving. > > I think the problem is that it seems JRRT mentions "golden" hair > whenever an Elf is supposed to have it, but never explicitly mentions > dark hair on anyone except Elrond (and maybe Arwen) in the narrative > itself. (I'll leave aside Legolas' "dark head".) I can see how that > might give rise to certain impressions. Hey, when you're immortal, the price of those bottles of blonde hair colour really adds up.... Tim ###### From: "Stuart Chapman" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:54:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 144.134.61.13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@bigpond.net.au X-Trace: news-server.bigpond.net.au 1074585281 144.134.61.13 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:54:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:54:41 EST Organization: BigPond Internet Services Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!news.glorb.com!lon-transit.news.telstra.net!lon-feeder.news.telstra.net!ken-transit.news.telstra.net!news.telstra.net!news-server.bigpond.net.au!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138985 "WxBethersxW" wrote in message news:20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com... > else has settled down. Oh, and he never sleeps (is seen sleeping). > > Bethers AFAIK, elves don't 'sleep' like men. Rather they enter a kind of trance, from which they can emerge at a predecided time. I understand they can even do this standing up, maybe even keeping their eyes open. No hard evidence, I know, but isn't there something in the (book) chapter "The Riders of Rohan" where this is described? Stupot ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:13:09 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> <595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074586390 16590 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138986 It is definitely described like that somewhere! > From: "Stuart Chapman" > Organization: BigPond Internet Services > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 07:54:41 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > > "WxBethersxW" wrote in message > news:20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com... > > >> else has settled down. Oh, and he never sleeps (is seen sleeping). >> >> Bethers > > > AFAIK, elves don't 'sleep' like men. Rather they enter a kind of trance, > from which they can emerge at a predecided time. I understand they can even > do this standing up, maybe even keeping their eyes open. > > No hard evidence, I know, but isn't there something in the (book) chapter > "The Riders of Rohan" where this is described? > > Stupot > > ###### Message-ID: <400CE935.6129769@1.au> From: Jussi Jaatinen <1@1.au> X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:38:14 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 172.21.34.186 X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@nokia.com X-Trace: news1.nokia.com 1074587894 172.21.34.186 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:38:14 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 10:38:14 EET Organization: Nokia Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news-stoc.telia.net!news-stoa.telia.net!telia.net!nntp.inet.fi!inet.fi!newsfeed1.nokia.com!news1.nokia.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138992 Eowyn's Pulsing Sphincter wrote: > Kate Blanchett's face looks goofy when she smiles. She looks wrong for > the part of Galadriel. She's not beautiful enough. She's more the type > who should play a rural woman in a movie like Deliverance. (snip) > >* Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) > Mediocre. Her voice is too breathy and low. It's a little silly. She's > not good looking enough for her role either. I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when designing her. -JJ ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 19:42:37 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: <400CE935.6129769@1.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074588158 26114 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:138993 > From: Jussi Jaatinen <1@1.au> > Organization: Nokia > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 08:38:14 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > > > Eowyn's Pulsing Sphincter wrote: > >> Kate Blanchett's face looks goofy when she smiles. She looks wrong for >> the part of Galadriel. She's not beautiful enough. She's more the type >> who should play a rural woman in a movie like Deliverance. > > (snip) > >>> * Arwen - syrupy, unengaging, (although let out a bit at the Ford) >> Mediocre. Her voice is too breathy and low. It's a little silly. She's >> not good looking enough for her role either. > > I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play > Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have > resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the > way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people > try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often > people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that > imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when > designing her. > > -JJ Personally, I think Cate Blanchette is gorgeous, but strangely I don't think they really captured that in many scenes... for me Liv Tyler is like the character is Seinfeld whose looks change with the light. Sometimes she is gorgeous and other times it's "oh my God!" Tim ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: 20 Jan 2004 19:42:36 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 117-moo-7.acn.waw.pl (62.121.94.117) X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1074627756 19153522 62.121.94.117 ([146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 X-Face: [yHC7F&Xc\\$5>7pH}cu#iLUZT"b*J:{j7Jw~04kN3]kjUr>wXTux++nkwv7uZ.sV\m*n;vd,1OSZ;GG]mCbAN}0hDo!.-U}5[Bl*=w75{'3DE"2s{^(ZjT"\/#46sM9vFVogEl%!nc>N;<|VXdcey1rYn'@uA^;Se1cSyF}h:+H+8*vO[1"~K~9ugGx^r-Wt'u<<$ Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!nntp.infostrada.it!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!117-moo-7.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139078 On 20 sty 2004, Michelle J. Haines scribbled loosely: >> Someone wrote earlier asking how one >> could possibly show the Light of Aman on the big screen > > They did make an attempt at it, though. If you notice Galadriel's > eyes, instead of reflecting a single point of light the way most > people's do, her eyes are reflecting an ring of lights circling her > pupil. I never knew that j-pop singers had a Light of Aman in their eyes ;) (explanation:they use similar technique in almost all j-pop videos) -- Pradera --- The Greatest Tolkien Fan Ever(tm) Books are books, movies are movies, PJ's LotR is crap. http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/ ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: <400CE935.6129769@1.au> Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 26 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:24:43 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074633886 148.63.111.21 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:24:46 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:24:46 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!ply1.onvoy!onvoy.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139095 In article <400CE935.6129769@1.au>, 1@1.au says... > > I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play > Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have > resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the > way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people > try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often > people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that > imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when > designing her. Apparently Uma Thurman was the original thought to play Eowyn, but they couldn't get the schedules to synch up. Thank goodness, because Uma Thurman as Eowyn? Ee-ech! I could have seen her as an Elf (although I'm not wild about her as an actress) but as Eowyn? Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 19 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 14:25:29 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074633934 148.63.111.21 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:25:34 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 15:25:34 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!news-out.visi.com!petbe.visi.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139097 In article , pradera@pradera.prv.pl says... > > I never knew that j-pop singers had a Light of Aman in their eyes ;) > (explanation:they use similar technique in almost all j-pop videos) Define "j-pop"? Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### From: "Conrad B Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> <595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 16 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2055 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2055 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:37:53 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.89.42.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1074641873 138.89.42.88 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:37:53 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:37:53 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!newsfeed.stueberl.de!peer01.cox.net!cox.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!ef6ee649!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139134 "Stuart Chapman" wrote in message news:595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > AFAIK, elves don't 'sleep' like men. "Only Legolas still stepped as lightly as ever, his feet hardly seeming to press the grass, leaving no footprints as he passed; but in the waybread of the Elves he found all the sustenance that he needed, and he could sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, resting his mind in the strange paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this world." TT, The Riders of Rohan However, there are other passages which suggest that Elves would sleep in the more normal way as well. ###### From: "Conrad B Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 15 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="Windows-1252"; reply-type=original Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2900.2055 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2900.2055 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:40:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 138.89.42.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny03.gnilink.net 1074642025 138.89.42.88 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:40:25 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:40:25 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn11feed!worldnet.att.net!199.45.49.37!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny03.gnilink.net.POSTED!ef6ee649!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139135 "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message news:MPG.1a7646bd965cbdb898a362@news.Qwest.net... > Well, in Rivendell we see dark-haired and red-haired Elves as well as > blonde ones. There were red-haired Elves in the movie? Now that's REALLY pushing it. There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of them were around anymore. > But we don't SEE a lot of Noldorin Elves in the movie. True... but the Silvan / Sindarin elves shouldn't have had many blondes either. :] ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 10:45:47 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: <20040119121358.27224.00000330@mb-m11.aol.com> <595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074642346 26119 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139138 > From: "Conrad B Dunkerson" > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:37:53 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > "Stuart Chapman" wrote in message > news:595Pb.19698$Wa.1057@news-server.bigpond.net.au... > >> AFAIK, elves don't 'sleep' like men. > > "Only Legolas still stepped as lightly as ever, his feet hardly seeming to > press the grass, leaving no footprints as he passed; but in the waybread > of the Elves he found all the sustenance that he needed, and he could > sleep, if sleep it could be called by Men, resting his mind in the strange > paths of elvish dreams, even as he walked open-eyed in the light of this > world." > TT, The Riders of Rohan > > However, there are other passages which suggest that Elves would sleep in > the more normal way as well. You get the impression that they're pretty lazy if not pressed, so I can imagine that. I mean, they just sit around singing and crapping on all the time... no wonder the race of men were created... what a yawn! ###### From: csernica@ihwy.com (Chris Csernica) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: 20 Jan 2004 15:59:14 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: <52ca495e.0401201559.1e8b6495@posting.google.com> References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.91.147.35 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1074643154 14252 127.0.0.1 (20 Jan 2004 23:59:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 23:59:14 +0000 (UTC) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139140 "Aris Katsaris" wrote in message news:... See, this is what I get for posting in a hurry from work. > In ROTK, we see both black-haired and golden-haired elves accompanying > Arwen. The elf that talks to her is black-haired. I wonder what Jackson had in mind here. Did he conceive of all (or many) of the residents of Rivendell as half-elven? Or was dark hair supposed to be a strictly local characteristic? [snip] > Actually I don't think anything is said in the movies about their being > half-elves, even though fans of the book know it... I've not seen the EE. Does Jackson explain anywhere why Arwen has a choice or why her choice has the effect on her that it does? > His very name meant "Golden-haired", so yeah, he is. Yeah, you'd think I'd remember that at least. But that just supports my point, that blond hair is relatively uncommon. No one gets names for a characteristic he shares with everyone around him; he gets named for some *uncommon* characteristic. -- Chris Csernica ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> <52ca495e.0401201559.1e8b6495@posting.google.com> Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:45:27 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074645936 148.63.111.21 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:45:36 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:45:36 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139153 In article <52ca495e.0401201559.1e8b6495@posting.google.com>, csernica@ihwy.com says... > > I've not seen the EE. Does Jackson explain anywhere why Arwen has a > choice or why her choice has the effect on her that it does? Not really. The only implication is that because she loves Aragorn, she can choose to remain with him or go with her father. In fact, the vision scene her father conjures during TTT, while it used much of the imagery from the Appendices, strongly implies she DOESN'T become mortal, which was a plot point addressed in ROTK instead. Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### From: Michelle J. Haines Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Reply-To: mhaines@io.nanc.com X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 42 Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 17:49:56 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 148.63.111.21 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 1074646198 148.63.111.21 (Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:49:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2004 18:49:58 CST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!feed.news.schlund.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!easynews.net!newsfeed3.easynews.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!newspeer1.nwr.nac.net!ply1.onvoy!onvoy.com!feed.news.qwest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139155 In article , conrad.dunkerson@worldnet.att.net says... > "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message > news:MPG.1a7646bd965cbdb898a362@news.Qwest.net... > > > Well, in Rivendell we see dark-haired and red-haired Elves as well as > > blonde ones. > > There were red-haired Elves in the movie? Now that's REALLY pushing it. > There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of > them were around anymore. There was at least one in the FOTR:EE scene where the Fellowship leaves Rivendell, as well as some other dark-haired Elves, IIRC. > > But we don't SEE a lot of Noldorin Elves in the movie. > > True... but the Silvan / Sindarin elves shouldn't have had many blondes > either. :] The Lorien Elves we see are pretty universally blond(e), the Rivendell Elves mixed. Those are the only two major groups we see, though. Do we have some solid descriptions about the predominant hair color amongst the Lorien Elves? On another note, other than the hair color of specific Elves described in the books being accurate, does it really matter a ton WHAT color hair they had for whatever reason? He had to dress them up some way or another, and perhaps in his mind's eye, Elves are predominantly blond. Michelle Flutist -- Drift on a river, That flows through my arms Drift as I'm singing to you I see you smiling, So peaceful and calm And holding you, I'm smiling, too Here in my arms, Safe from all harm Holding you, I'm smiling, too -- For Xander [9/22/98 - 2/23/99] ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 9 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:02:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.164.139 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1074646945 82.43.164.139 (Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:02:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 01:02:25 GMT Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!takemy.news.telefonica.de!telefonica.de!hirsch.in-berlin.de!bolzen.all.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139157 "Conrad B Dunkerson" wrote > There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of > them were around anymore. Which elves are these? ###### From: stephen@nomail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: 21 Jan 2004 01:41:29 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 16 Sender: stephen@nomail.com Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cse.msu.edu User-Agent: tin/1.4.3-20000502 ("Marian") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.9 (sun4u)) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!canoe.uoregon.edu!hammer.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139164 Christopher Kreuzer wrote: : "Conrad B Dunkerson" wrote :> There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of :> them were around anymore. : Which elves are these? Feanor's father in-law Mahtan, and three of his sons: Maedros, Amrod, and Amras. In some versions, only one of the twins has red hair. I thought that Feanor's wife is also given red hair in some versions, but I cannot find a passage that definitively says that. It is said that her sons inherited the hair color of her kin. Stephen ###### From: "Zimri" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <400CE935.6129769@1.au> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.139.7.74 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr22.news.prodigy.com 1074673415 ST000 66.139.7.74 (Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:23:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 03:23:35 EST Organization: SBC http://yahoo.sbc.com X-UserInfo1: Q[R_PJONOJTIB_LXKBHD]_\@VR]^@B@MCPWZKB]MPXHJUZ]CDVW[AKK[J\]^HVKHG^EWZHBLO^[\NH_AZFWGN^\DHNVMX_DHHX[FSQKBOTS@@BP^]C@RHS_AGDDC[AJM_T[GZNRNZAY]GNCPBDYKOLK^_CZFWPGHZIXW@C[AFKBBQS@E@DAZ]VDFUNTQQ]FN Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 08:23:35 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news2.telebyte.nl!feed2.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!news-feed01.roc.ny.frontiernet.net!nntp.frontiernet.net!prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr22.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!1dccac64!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139219 "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message news:MPG.1a774a8222045d4f98a371@news.Qwest.net... > In article <400CE935.6129769@1.au>, 1@1.au says... > > > > I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play > > Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have > > resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the > > way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people > > try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often > > people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that > > imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when > > designing her. > > Apparently Uma Thurman was the original thought to play Eowyn, but > they couldn't get the schedules to synch up. Thank goodness, because > Uma Thurman as Eowyn? Ee-ech! I could have seen her as an Elf > (although I'm not wild about her as an actress) but as Eowyn? I think Uma would have been a great Eowyn. But the Eowyn that PJ gave us was good enough that I wouldn't change that. So... you're not watching Kill Bill 2 then, right? :^) -- zimriel sbc dot at global net . http://pages.sbcglobal.net/zimriel/blog/zimblog.html because everyone else is doing it ###### From: "Mike P." Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Thu, 22 Jan 2004 02:11:07 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Lines: 48 Message-ID: <400e9688$0$16594$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.28.68.14 X-Trace: 1074697864 16594 211.28.68.14 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139254 "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message news:MPG.1a777aa26517cc6398a376@news.Qwest.net... > In article , > conrad.dunkerson@worldnet.att.net says... > > "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message > > news:MPG.1a7646bd965cbdb898a362@news.Qwest.net... > > > > > Well, in Rivendell we see dark-haired and red-haired Elves as well as > > > blonde ones. > > > > There were red-haired Elves in the movie? Now that's REALLY pushing it. > > There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of > > them were around anymore. > > There was at least one in the FOTR:EE scene where the Fellowship > leaves Rivendell, as well as some other dark-haired Elves, IIRC. > > > > But we don't SEE a lot of Noldorin Elves in the movie. > > > > True... but the Silvan / Sindarin elves shouldn't have had many blondes > > either. :] > > The Lorien Elves we see are pretty universally blond(e), the > Rivendell Elves mixed. Those are the only two major groups we see, > though. Do we have some solid descriptions about the predominant > hair color amongst the Lorien Elves? > > On another note, other than the hair color of specific Elves > described in the books being accurate, does it really matter a ton > WHAT color hair they had for whatever reason? He had to dress them > up some way or another, and perhaps in his mind's eye, Elves are > predominantly blond. > I could be completely wrong here (don't have the books handy to check), but I seem to remember reading something about that in general the Noldor were dark (maybe black) haired and in general the Vanyar were golden/fair/blonde haired. There were some exception to the rules such as Galadriel - but this is because Finwe's second wife Indis was of the Vanyar. Weren't some of their children (Fingolfin and Finarfin) and their descendants blonde. Galadriel got her blonde hair from her father Finarfin who got it from Indis. Mike. ###### From: "Tamzin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 22:52:04 -0000 Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.78.166.60 X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1074725459 8078 81.78.166.60 (21 Jan 2004 22:50:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2004 22:50:59 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.r-kom.de!news0.de.colt.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139330 "Conrad B Dunkerson" wrote in message news:J%iPb.4755$LM4.378@nwrdny03.gnilink.net... > "Michelle J. Haines" wrote in message > news:MPG.1a7646bd965cbdb898a362@news.Qwest.net... > > > Well, in Rivendell we see dark-haired and red-haired Elves as well as > > blonde ones. > > There were red-haired Elves in the movie? Now that's REALLY pushing it. > There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of > them were around anymore. > > > But we don't SEE a lot of Noldorin Elves in the movie. > > True... but the Silvan / Sindarin elves shouldn't have had many blondes > either. :] Why did Tolkien want to exclude us tow-headed creatures from being associated with elvendom anyway? I have fair hair with natural blonde highlights (are you jealous yet?) It always annoyed me that so many of the elves were dark because how could I claim elvish ancestry on my own behalf if their line favoured dark hair? Was Tolkien dark haired himself? What about his wife? Is his terrible prejudice against the light haired simply a result of giving preferment to his own characteristics? Enquiring minds would like to know. :o) Tamzin ###### From: "Christopher Kreuzer" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> Subject: Re: The movie elves Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: <2DDPb.6219$on3.72694008@news-text.cableinet.net> Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 82.43.164.139 X-Complaints-To: abuse@blueyonder.co.uk X-Trace: news-text.cableinet.net 1074726462 82.43.164.139 (Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:42 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:07:42 GMT Organization: blueyonder (post doesn't reflect views of blueyonder) Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!proxad.net!proxad.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!internal-news-hub.cableinet.net!news-text.cableinet.net!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139334 "Tamzin" wrote > Was Tolkien dark haired himself? What about his wife? I would assume that Ronald and Edith Tolkien had the same hair colour as Beren and Luthien. Luthien was dark-haired ("dark as the shadows of twilight"), but I cannot recall Beren's hair colour and I am not sure if it is even mentioned. Christopher -- --- Reply clue: Saruman welcomes you to Spamgard ###### From: "Tamzin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Wed, 21 Jan 2004 23:11:15 -0000 Lines: 20 Message-ID: References: <52ca495e.0401191357.41426bb@posting.google.com> <2DDPb.6219$on3.72694008@news-text.cableinet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 81.76.247.119 X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1074726609 12940 81.76.247.119 (21 Jan 2004 23:10:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jan 2004 23:10:09 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139337 "Christopher Kreuzer" wrote in message news:2DDPb.6219$on3.72694008@news-text.cableinet.net... > "Tamzin" wrote > > > Was Tolkien dark haired himself? What about his wife? > > I would assume that Ronald and Edith Tolkien had the same hair colour as > Beren and Luthien. Luthien was dark-haired ("dark as the shadows of > twilight"), but I cannot recall Beren's hair colour and I am not sure if > it is even mentioned. > Actually I'm sure I've seen a picture of Edith Tolkien somewhere, and remember her as being rather beautiful. or am i mixing her up with someone else? Tamzin ###### Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 23 Jan 2004 04:19:43 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: usenet_offline-m10) Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040122231943.21457.00003562@mb-m10.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!38.144.126.70.MISMATCH!feed3.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139628 In article , Michelle J. Haines writes: >He had to dress them >up some way or another, and perhaps in his mind's eye, Elves are >predominantly blond. In his mind's eye were they also dancers at La Cage au Folles? No wonder, Luthien, Idril, Finduilas and Arwen dated mortals. Russ ---------------------- "Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction." - Ann Coulter 9/26/2002 ###### Lines: 20 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 23 Jan 2004 04:19:43 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: usenet_offline-m10) Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040122231943.21457.00003560@mb-m10.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!in.100proofnews.com!tdsnet-transit!newspeer.tds.net!nntp1.roc.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!nntp.gblx.net!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139631 In article , "Christopher Kreuzer" writes: >"Conrad B Dunkerson" wrote > >> There were all of three red-headed Elves in the stories... and none of >> them were around anymore. > > >Which elves are these? Feanor's twin sons and his father in law? Russ ---------------------- "Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction." - Ann Coulter 9/26/2002 ###### Lines: 27 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 23 Jan 2004 04:19:43 GMT References: <52ca495e.0401201559.1e8b6495@posting.google.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: usenet_offline-m10) Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040122231943.21457.00003561@mb-m10.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!c03.atl99!news.webusenet.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139632 In article <52ca495e.0401201559.1e8b6495@posting.google.com>, csernica@ihwy.com (Chris Csernica) writes: >"Aris Katsaris" wrote in message >news:... > >See, this is what I get for posting in a hurry from work. > >> In ROTK, we see both black-haired and golden-haired elves accompanying >> Arwen. The elf that talks to her is black-haired. > >I wonder what Jackson had in mind here. Did he conceive of all (or >many) of the residents of Rivendell as half-elven? Or was dark hair >supposed to be a strictly local characteristic? I wouldn't overthink it. I think the Flautist had it right - it was in the writers' minds eye. Russ ---------------------- "Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction." - Ann Coulter 9/26/2002 ###### Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 23 Jan 2004 04:19:44 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler (Queue Name: usenet_offline-m10) Subject: Re: The movie elves Message-ID: <20040122231944.21457.00003563@mb-m10.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newshosting.com!nx02.iad01.newshosting.com!38.144.126.70.MISMATCH!feed3.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139633 In article , Michelle J. Haines writes: >In article <400CE935.6129769@1.au>, 1@1.au says... >> >> I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play >> Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have >> resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the >> way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people >> try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often >> people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that >> imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when >> designing her. > >Apparently Uma Thurman was the original thought to play Eowyn, but >they couldn't get the schedules to synch up. Thank goodness, because >Uma Thurman as Eowyn? Ee-ech! I could have seen her as an Elf >(although I'm not wild about her as an actress) but as Eowyn? I thought Eowyn as a bit more kick ass than what's her face in the film. She was a bit too dainty. I thought of Eowyn as a latter day Nienor who was as tall as a male Sinda. Russ ---------------------- "Ah yes - we must mollify angry fanatics who seek our destruction because otherwise they might get mad and seek our destruction." - Ann Coulter 9/26/2002 ###### User-Agent: Microsoft-Outlook-Express-Macintosh-Edition/5.02.2022 Date: Fri, 23 Jan 2004 15:24:21 +1100 Subject: Re: The movie elves From: timananda Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: References: <20040122231944.21457.00003563@mb-m10.aol.com> Mime-version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Host: 211.30.49.214 X-Trace: 1074831859 26118 211.30.49.214 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newsfeeder.syd.optusnet.com.au!news.optusnet.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:139634 > From: mcresq@aol.comnojunk (Russ) > Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien > Date: 23 Jan 2004 04:19:44 GMT > Subject: Re: The movie elves > > In article , Michelle J. Haines > writes: > >> In article <400CE935.6129769@1.au>, 1@1.au says... >>> >>> I think both Blanchett and Tyler were good looking enough to play >>> Galadriel and Arwen. I shudder at the thought the film crew would have >>> resorted to supermodels... A lot of how Galadriel looks comes from the >>> way she carries herself and relates to the other characters. When people >>> try to imagine how she looks from reading the books, I think often >>> people think of an image of something unearthily beautiful, and that >>> imagelike quality is what I believe the film crew were going for when >>> designing her. >> >> Apparently Uma Thurman was the original thought to play Eowyn, but >> they couldn't get the schedules to synch up. Thank goodness, because >> Uma Thurman as Eowyn? Ee-ech! I could have seen her as an Elf >> (although I'm not wild about her as an actress) but as Eowyn? > > I thought Eowyn as a bit more kick ass than what's her face in the film. She > was a bit too dainty. > [snip] > Russ Yes, I agree, but that could be a direction issue. Every scene looked like she was about to cry... Tim ###### From: "Speaking Clock" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The movie elves Date: Fri, 30 Jan 2004 23:46:27 -0000 Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <20040122231944.21457.00003563@mb-m10.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 81-86-101-14.dsl.pipex.com (81.86.101.14) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.uni-berlin.de 1075506337 28704905 81.86.101.14 ([93488]) Keywords: world X-No-archive: yes X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!81-86-101-14.dsl.pipex.COM!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:141372 Russ wrote: > I thought Eowyn as a bit more kick ass than what's her face in the > film. She was a bit too dainty. > > I thought of Eowyn as a latter day Nienor who was as tall as a male > Sinda. In my mind's eye she had a stronger face too - more like a young Vanessa Redgrave http://tinyurl.com/2m3jm or, even better, Geraldine James http://tinyurl.com/3ydqp -- Speaking Clock "Inevitably the myths woven by us, though they contain error, will also reflect a splintered fragment of the true light."