Lines: 1 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: iamseanc@aol.com (IamSeanC) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 16 Nov 2003 23:28:37 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Asfaloth Message-ID: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!38.144.126.70.MISMATCH!feed3.newsreader.com!newsreader.com!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m1.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127160 Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? ###### Reply-To: "Bill O'Meally" From: "Bill O'Meally" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Subject: Re: Asfaloth Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.26.218.54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rr.com X-Trace: twister.rdc-kc.rr.com 1069045807 65.26.218.54 (Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:10:07 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2003 23:10:07 CST Organization: RoadRunner Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elnk-pas-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!cyclone.socal.rr.com!cyclone2.kc.rr.com!news2.kc.rr.com!twister.rdc-kc.rr.com.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127183 "IamSeanC" wrote in message news:20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com... > Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? Just a horse, IMO. -- Bill "Wise fool" Gandalf, THE TWO TOWERS -- The Wise will remove 'se' to reply; the Foolish will not-- ###### From: JXStern Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Asfaloth Message-ID: References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 14 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:59:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.62.124.82 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrddc03.gnilink.net 1069048786 4.62.124.82 (Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:59:46 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 00:59:46 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.vmunix.org!feed.news.nacamar.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer1.atl.newshosting.com!diablo.voicenet.com!cycny01.gnilink.net!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller.gnilink.net!nwrddc03.gnilink.net.POSTED!4fcf30b0!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127194 On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:07 GMT, "Bill O'Meally" wrote: >> Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? > >Just a horse, IMO. "A breath of deadly cold pierced him like a spear, as with a last spurt, like a flash of white fire, the elf-horse speeding as if on wings, passed right before the face of the foremost Rider." "Elf-horse", guess it had pointy ears! J. ###### From: Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Asfaloth Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 10:00:05 +0300 Organization: MTU-Intel ISP Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp131-78.dialup.mtu-net.ru X-Trace: gavrilo.mtu.ru 1069052292 7084 62.118.131.78 (17 Nov 2003 06:58:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet-abuse@mtu.ru NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 06:58:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Incantation: For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined. Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!ecngs!feeder.ecngs.de!194.186.254.21.MISMATCH!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!image.surnet.ru!mtu.ru!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127195 JXStern wrote: > On Mon, 17 Nov 2003 05:10:07 GMT, "Bill O'Meally" > wrote: > >> Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? > > > >Just a horse, IMO. > > "A breath of deadly cold pierced him like a spear, as with a last > spurt, like a flash of white fire, the elf-horse speeding as if on > wings, passed right before the face of the foremost Rider." > > "Elf-horse", guess it had pointy ears! And w*ngs:-? Archie ###### From: "Jon Meltzer" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Subject: Re: Asfaloth Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 16:04:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 165.121.145.253 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net 1069085096 165.121.145.253 (Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:04:56 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 11:04:56 EST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!newshosting.com!news-xfer2.atl.newshosting.com!207.69.154.101.MISMATCH!elnk-atl-nf1!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net.POSTED!a91cc34a!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127228 wrote in message news:MPG.1a22a623ce27eb98f8418a9e@news.mtu-> > "Elf-horse", guess it had pointy ears! > And w*ngs:-? No. only **balrog-horses** have wings ... ###### From: "Raven" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Subject: Re: Asfaloth Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 20:51:37 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.188 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1069103947 195.82.196.188 (Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:19:07 CET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 22:19:07 CET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.belwue.de!feed.news.nacamar.de!uio.no!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127264 "IamSeanC" skrev i en meddelelse news:20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com... > Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? Asfaloth, like the Mearas, seems to have been some sort of super-horse of very great strength and speed. But in his case it seems to have been because he was an elf-horse, possibly brought from Aman or descended from Valinorean stock. Karasu. ###### Message-ID: <3FB95400.95F696BA@indigo.ie> From: Michael O'Neill Organization: O'Neill Quigley & Associates X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [en] (WinNT; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Asfaloth References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 102 Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:04:32 +0000 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.94.248.208 X-Complaints-To: abuse@eircom.net X-Trace: news.indigo.ie 1069110492 213.94.248.208 (Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:08:12 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:08:12 GMT Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!proxad.net!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!peer1.news.newnet.co.uk!diablo.theplanet.net!news.indigo.ie!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127300 IamSeanC wrote: > > Was Asfaloth one of the Maeras? Tolkien did at least one essay dealing with the animals of Valinor. Separately, Galadriel in Unfinished Tales: The Elessar, comments in the following extract: And on a time Olórin came to Galadriel, who dwelt now under the trees of Greenwood the Great; and they had long speech together. For the years of her exile began to lie heavy on the Lady of the Noldor, and she longed for news of her kin and for the blessed land of her birth, and yet was unwilling to forsake Middle-earth [this sentence was changed to read: but was not permitted yet to forsake Middle-earth]. And when Olórin had told her many tidings she sighed, and said: "I grieve in Middle-earth, for leaves fall and flowers fade; and my heart yearns, remembering trees and grass that do not die. I would have these in my home." Then Olórin said: "Would you then have the Elessar?" Animals and plants in Valinor were essentially long-lived versions of all the animals that have ever been in Middle Earth, as well as a few of Yavanna's designs that didn't make it there. Huan, the Hound of Valinor, exhibits both great intelligence, and great strength as well as the ability to understand human speech [he is given also the ability to speak in human tongue three times in his life]. Asfaloth the Elf-Horse responds to a spoken command from Glorfindel to carry away his rider, a level of communication probably exceeded by that shown by Gandalf and Shadowfax. Fingolfin's ride to Angband is described thus in the Silmarillion: Then Fingolfin beheld (as it seemed to him) the utter ruin of the Noldor, and the defeat beyond redress of all their houses; and filled with wrath and despair he mounted upon Rochallor his great horse and rode forth alone, and none might restrain him. He passed over Dor-nu-Fauglith like a wind amid the dust, and all that beheld his onset fled in amaze, thinking that Oromë himself was come: for a great madness of rage was upon him, so that his eyes shone like the eyes of the Valar. Thus he came alone to Angband's gates, and he sounded his horn, and smote once more upon the brazen doors, and challenged Morgoth to come forth to single combat. And Morgoth came. Not slow, these creatures, the Elf-Horses. While Tolkien states that Elves and Men inhabit similar bodies, the Elves longevity being determined by the spirit within, it is clear that Elves have certain physical characteristics which are greater than those shown by Men. Legolas has far greater endurance than even Aragorn, that latter day pinnacle of Numenorean hardihood, can see farther than him and shows at least as great a turn of speed, probably more so, albeit he is not perhaps as strong, physically. So we can speculate that Valinorean animals would exhibit similar characteristics and that their mortal descendants from matings with animals of Middle Earth would be similarly endowed. In that regard the strain of the Maeras may owe something to Valinorean ancestry. Félaróf, Shadofaxes ancestor [Eorl the Youngs' horse?] may have been descended from the horses of Orome, who used to ride his great steed Nahar over to hunt the evil creatures of Melkor before the rising of the Moon. We simply do not know. But we are told he understood the speech of men. 'Léod was the name of Eorl's father. He was a tamer of wild horses; for there were many at that time in the land. He captured a white foal and it grew quickly to a horse strong, and fair, and proud. No man could tame it. When Léod dared to mount it, it bore him away, and at last threw him, and Léod's head struck a rock, and so he died. He was then only two and forty years old, and his son a youth of sixteen. 'Eorl vowed that he would avenge his father. He hunted long for the horse, and at last he caught sight of him; and his companions expected that he would try to come within bowshot and kill him. But when they drew near, Eorl stood up and called in a loud voice: "Come hither, Mansbane, and get a new name!" To their wonder the horse looked towards Eorl, and came and stood before him, and Eorl said: "Felaróf I name you. You loved your freedom, and I do not blame you for that. But now you owe me a great weregild, and you shall surrender your freedom to me until your life's end." 'Then Eorl mounted him, and Felaróf submitted; and Eorl rode him home without bit or bridle; and he rode him in like fashion ever after. The horse understood all that men said, though he would allow no man but Eorl to mount him. It was upon Felaróf that Eorl rode to the Field of Celebrant; for that horse proved as long lived as Men, and so were his descendants. These were the mearas, who would bear no one but the King of the Mark or his sons, until the time of Shadowfax. Men said of them that Béma (whom the Eldar call Oromë) must have brought their sire from West over Sea. So, back to your question. No. Although he or his Valinorean relations may have sired their ancestors. FWIW M. ###### From: "A Tsar Is Born" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20031116182837.12215.00000302@mb-m25.aol.com> Subject: Re: Asfaloth Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2800.1158 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1165 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 23:26:34 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.84.161.165 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verizon.net X-Trace: nwrdny02.gnilink.net 1069111594 162.84.161.165 (Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:26:34 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2003 18:26:34 EST Path: redlance.franklin.ch!pfaff2.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out1.nntp.be!propagator2-sterling!news-in-sterling.newsfeed.com!news-in-sterling.nuthinbutnews.com!cyclone1.gnilink.net!spamkiller2.gnilink.net!nwrdny02.gnilink.net.POSTED!53ab2750!not-for-mail Xref: redlance.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:127309 "Jon Meltzer" wrote in message news:Ik6ub.6348$Wy4.6340@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net... > wrote in message > news:MPG.1a22a623ce27eb98f8418a9e@news.mtu-> > "Elf-horse", guess it had > pointy ears! > > And w*ngs:-? > > No. only **balrog-horses** have wings ... ALL Eru's chillun got wings. Tsar Parmathule