From: jordancool89@aol.com (Jordan) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Elves Date: 11 Apr 2003 19:32:08 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 1 Message-ID: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 152.163.188.227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1050114729 4915 127.0.0.1 (12 Apr 2003 02:32:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Apr 2003 02:32:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!irazu.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115407 I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? ###### From: mair_fheal@yahoo.com (coyotes morgan mair fheal greykitten tomys des anges) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: Fri, 11 Apr 2003 19:55:36 -0700 Organization: eden huntersstrand Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-06!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!c24.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115404 In article <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com>, jordancool89@aol.com (Jordan) wrote: > I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? no except for some unknown reason cirdan ###### From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 9 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.236.164.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc01 1050116258 12.236.164.115 (Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:57:38 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:57:38 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 02:57:38 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc01.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115391 In article <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com>, jordancool89@aol.com says... > I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? > Cirdan is an Elf, and he has a beard. So, yes. -- Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. ###### From: Xaonon Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: 12 Apr 2003 03:04:22 GMT Organization: HappyFunballCo., an EAC subsidiary Lines: 12 Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> Reply-To: xaonon@hotpop.com NNTP-Posting-Host: machamp-59.dynamic.rpi.edu X-Mind-Control-Beam: Activated X-Irony-Meter: Running X-Evil-Atheist-Conspiracy: Nonexistent X-Geek-Code: GCS/S dpu s+:+ a20>? C++++ UL+>++++$ P++ L++>++++ E+ W++ N+++ o+ K+++ w--- O? M+ V? PS+ PE++ Y+ PGP+ t++@* 5++ X++ R tv+ b++++ DI+ D+ G++ e>++++ h!>++ !r !y X-Face: $7Ee}n[ZyA(Kr>j8.~)C@,[b-#yCG NFb(%f3xP0Q'p9!&!.hjA9Si:6MnDUkP%E&>u]_Q7J&v User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.4 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!snoopy.risq.qc.ca!headwall.stanford.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115374 Ned i bach <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com>, Jordan teithant i thiw hin: > I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? Yes, but they have to be *reeeeal* old first. -- Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1 Visit The Nexus Of All Coolness (i.e. my site) at http://xaonon.dyndns.org/ "I'm going to start walking around in my underwear from now on so that I don't become a lesbian!" -- James "Kibo" Parry, in alt.religion.kibology ###### From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.236.164.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc01 1050117289 12.236.164.115 (Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:14:49 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:14:49 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 03:14:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!cox.net!newsfeed2.easynews.com!newsfeed1.easynews.com!easynews.com!easynews!crtntx1-snh1.gtei.net!chcgil2-snh1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!wn12feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc01.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115384 In article , mair_fheal@yahoo.com says... > In article <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com>, > jordancool89@aol.com (Jordan) wrote: > > > I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? > > no > > except for some unknown reason cirdan > Beleg seems to have a beard in Picture 37. In VT 41 a note associated with the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was published, in which JRRT wrote: "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being only early in his second." -- Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: 12 Apr 2003 11:02:42 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 117-moo-7.acn.waw.pl (62.121.94.117) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050145362 12388277 62.121.94.117 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!117-moo-7.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115425 On 12 kwi 2003, Tar-Elenion scribbled loosely: >> I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? >> > Cirdan is an Elf, and he has a beard. So, yes. But it's one, exceptionate case. For all we know, it could be a false beard, worn all this time. Or he was a half-dwarf ^_- -- Pradera --- -ignorance is no excuse for stupidity- RANT - Regulars Against Non-Topicness (on RABT) http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/ ###### Message-ID: <3E97FC85.1EBA336D@aon.at> Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:46:13 +0200 From: Georg =?iso-8859-1?Q?Sch=F6negger?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: N772P013.adsl.highway.telekom.at X-Trace: 1050147859 newsreader01.highway.telekom.at 17344 62.47.40.109 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeder.edisontel.com!news.telebyte.nl!news.salzburg-online.at!newsfeed01.univie.ac.at!newsfeed01.highway.telekom.at!newsreader01.highway.telekom.at!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115422 > > But it's one, exceptionate case. For all we know, it could be a false > beard, worn all this time. > Or he was a half-dwarf ^_- > > -- > Pradera > --- lol btw - there were NO confirmed dwarf-elf-relationships, were there? (apart from the gimli/legolas- and gimli/galadriel-thing which has been discussed into great depth elsewhere). and relating to the beard: recently i saw an adaption of lotr on the big screen and had the distinct impression that those elves wore false ears! so, you may not be so far off the mark after all ;) georg ###### From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.236.164.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc03 1050153824 12.236.164.115 (Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:23:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:23:44 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:23:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn14feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi_feed4!attbi.com!sccrnsc03.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115392 In article , pradera@pradera.prv.pl says... > On 12 kwi 2003, Tar-Elenion scribbled loosely: > > >> I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? > >> > > Cirdan is an Elf, and he has a beard. So, yes. > > But it's one, exceptionate case. For all we know, it could be a false > beard, worn all this time. > Or he was a half-dwarf ^_- > > Beleg seems to have a beard in Picture 37. In VT 41 a note associated with the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was published, in which JRRT wrote: "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being only early in his second." -- Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: 12 Apr 2003 13:56:12 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 29 Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 117-moo-7.acn.waw.pl (62.121.94.117) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050155772 12964878 62.121.94.117 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.stueberl.de!newsfeed.vmunix.org!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!117-moo-7.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115423 On 12 kwi 2003, Tar-Elenion scribbled loosely: >> But it's one, exceptionate case. For all we know, it could be a false >> beard, worn all this time. >> Or he was a half-dwarf ^_- >> >> > > Beleg seems to have a beard in Picture 37. > In VT 41 a note associated with the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was > published, in which JRRT wrote: > "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of > life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being > only early in his second." > Interesting. Where would those cycles be described? Somewhere within Shibboleth? (but note 61 says nothing about 'Aulendil's' beard?) -- Pradera --- -ignorance is no excuse for stupidity- RANT - Regulars Against Non-Topicness (on RABT) http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/ ###### From: "Robert J. Kolker" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 10:16:26 -0400 Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3E981FBA.4030302@attbi.com> References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: h000102d0ed93.ne.client2.attbi.com (24.34.210.232) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050156981 13214385 24.34.210.232 (16 [76471]) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; WinNT4.0; en-US; rv:1.0.1) Gecko/20020823 Netscape/7.0 X-Accept-Language: en-us, en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!h000102d0ed93.ne.client2.attbi.COM!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115445 Tar-Elenion wrote: > "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of life. > Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being only early > in his second." What does that mean in sun-years.. Bob Kolker > ###### From: Tar-Elenion Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.236.164.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1050158107 12.236.164.115 (Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:35:07 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:35:07 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 14:35:07 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn13feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115393 In article , pradera@pradera.prv.pl says... > On 12 kwi 2003, Tar-Elenion scribbled loosely: > > >> But it's one, exceptionate case. For all we know, it could be a false > >> beard, worn all this time. > >> Or he was a half-dwarf ^_- > >> > >> > > > > Beleg seems to have a beard in Picture 37. > > In VT 41 a note associated with the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was > > published, in which JRRT wrote: > > "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of > > life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, being > > only early in his second." > > > > Interesting. Where would those cycles be described? Somewhere within > Shibboleth? There is no other information on the 'cycles of life' (at least none that has yet been published). > (but note 61 says nothing about 'Aulendil's' beard?) The VT editorial reference to note 61 is indicating where Nerdanel's father is mentioned (and likely where the above note would go if it had been published with the Shibboleth). -- Tar-Elenion Extremism in defense of liberty is no vice. Moderation in pursuit of justice is no virtue. ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: 12 Apr 2003 15:53:47 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 117-moo-7.acn.waw.pl (62.121.94.117) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1050162827 13136275 62.121.94.117 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!117-moo-7.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115420 On 12 kwi 2003, Tar-Elenion scribbled loosely: >> > Beleg seems to have a beard in Picture 37. >> > In VT 41 a note associated with the 'Shibboleth of Feanor' was >> > published, in which JRRT wrote: >> > "Elves did not have beards until they entered their third cycle of >> > life. Nerdanel's father [cf. XII:365-66 n.61] was exceptional, >> > being only early in his second." >> > >> >> Interesting. Where would those cycles be described? Somewhere within >> Shibboleth? > > There is no other information on the 'cycles of life' (at least none > that has yet been published). Rats. As usual, just when it gets interesting. Still, it must be quite a long cycle, if there is only one bearded elf in ME that we know of. Valinor, OTOH, must look like ZZ Top fans convention by now. -- Pradera --- -ignorance is no excuse for stupidity- RANT - Regulars Against Non-Topicness (on RABT) http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ http://www.tolkien-gen.prv.pl/ ###### From: Jon Meltzer Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elves Date: Sat, 12 Apr 2003 13:52:14 -0400 Organization: Slytherin House Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> Reply-To: jmeltzer.at.pobox.com NNTP-Posting-Host: 40.5b.a6.b7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 12 Apr 2003 17:54:11 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 X-No-Archive: yes Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!beamish.news.atl.earthlink.net!guinness.news.atl.earthlink.net!news.atl.earthlink.net!stamper.news.atl.earthlink.net!harp.news.atl.earthlink.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:115432 On 11 Apr 2003 19:32:08 -0700, jordancool89@aol.com (Jordan) wrote: >I was just wandering can Elves grow beards? The only one mentioned with a beard is Cirdan, who may be the oldest elf in Middle-earth. (He's far older than even Galadriel.) ###### Lines: 2 X-Admin: news@cs.com From: workingclashero@cs.com (Workingclashero) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 24 Apr 2003 14:46:33 GMT References: <5a1f94ff.0304111832.30658c8@posting.google.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Subject: Re: Elves Message-ID: <20030424104633.21960.00000014@mb-m12.news.cs.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ngpeer.news.aol.com!audrey-m2.news.cs.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:116076 Yes they can actually it is said that Cirdan the shipwright has a long flowing beard.