Message-ID: <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> Date: Sat, 19 Oct 2002 09:02:50 +0200 From: Peter Knutsen Organization: www.knutsen.dk X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 34 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.215.238.61 X-Trace: 1035010764 dtext.news.tele.dk 3396 195.215.238.61 X-Complaints-To: abuse@post.tele.dk Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96648 Andrew Wells wrote: > > Peter Knutsen wrote in message news:<3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk>... > > I've read, in several places, that when writing the magic system > > used in the new Lord of the Rings RPG from Decipher, the rules > > designers had a five page long document mentioning all the magic > > depicted in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. > > > > Five pages sounds like a lot. Anybody knows if that piece of paper > > can be downloaded (legally!) from the net somewhere? Or if someone > > else has compiled a similar piece of paper? Steuard Jensen has > > written that he once had such a paper (presumably he wrote it > > himself) but that he lost it. > > Not an answer, more a comment, I'm afraid, but: > > A major difficulty in compiling or using such a list would be the > difficulty of defining "magic". For example, is the ability of > Hobbits to dissapear when Men come along "magic", or is it just keen > eyes & ears linked with an ability to move quickly and easily? I'd say it's not magic, but simply a species ability that falls well within what dogs and many birds are capable of. As for my question, I'm re-reading the first book (of 3) and there is quite a bit more magic in them than one remembers. But I'm not compiling a list, I'm too lazy for that! > Andrew Wells -- Peter Knutsen ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 248 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1035293210 128.135.12.7 (Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:26:50 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 08:26:50 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: umct9-17319-V4-7009@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: 763c36be 66cabab7 235671c9 82dabbb9 c7c216d3 Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 13:26:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!feedme.news.mediaways.net!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96949 Quoth Peter Knutsen in article <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk>: > > > I've read, in several places, that when writing the magic system > > > used in the new Lord of the Rings RPG from Decipher, the rules > > > designers had a five page long document mentioning all the magic > > > depicted in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. ... > > > Steuard Jensen has written that he once had such a paper > > > (presumably he wrote it himself) but that he lost it. What once was lost has now been found. :) So, some disclaimers: I made this list by brainstorming several years ago. I won't swear that it's complete, though I'd guess that it contains ta substantial majority of the more "active" magic in _The Hobbit_ and LotR. (The examples from elsewhere are just a sampling that came to mind at the time.) At the risk of posting _way_ too much, I'm going to include both my original list and a "sorted" list breaking things down into different "categories" of magic (as described in the essay I was working on at the time). Don't be surprised if many entries in the list are rather cryptic: it wasn't written for public consumption. :) Steuard Jensen Magic in Middle-earth The Hobbit ---------- Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) Moon letters Gandalf's staff/use of fire Glowing swords The Ring: invisibility Bjorn's transformations Elf-path was clear Elf gates sealed Dwarf door hidden FotR ---------- I: The Ring: anti-aging Read minds of other wearers Command(?) scaring orcs weight (physical and mental) (in Mordor) Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring Old Willow Man Tom's songs Gandalf's lightning on Weathertop the Morgul knife Glorfindel's touch The wraith world/world of the "unseen" (and Glorfindel therein) Shattering of Frodo's sword Flood of the Brunien II: Gandalf's fire on Caradhras Gandalf's fire against the Wargs Doors of Durin Gandalf's staff (light) Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) Gandalf's destruction of the Bridge Mirromere Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) Galadriel's tests of the company The Mirror of Galadriel Cloaks from Lorien Lembas Sheath for Anduril (never break?) Phial of Galadriel Sam's box Amon Hen (Seat of Seeing) Gandalf's warning (and perhaps Sauron's "beam of will") TT ----------- III: Derndingle (Treebeard's home): lights, draughts Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld Gandalf's affinity with Shadowfax Saruman's voice The Palantir IV: Sam's rope Dead Marshes: candles RotK ----------- V: The Words of the Seer (and prophecy in general) The Dead Men The horror of the Nazgul (cries, etc) More lightning by Gandalf Merry's sword (?) The Black Shadow (Nazgul sickness) VI: The Watchers in Cirith Ungol Effects of Ring's destruction Effect of Sauron's distraction on soldiers of Mordor Faramir's feeling of hope after Sauron's fall Silent "conversations" of the wise on the way home Galadriel's ring flash upon parting Recurring (time dependent) nature of Frodo's injuries The Straight Road App: Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor Silm (no Ainu acts, please!) (probably incomplete) ----------- Creations of the Noldor Feanor's body burning away Finrod's song-battle against Sauron Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) [Beren's resurection][Ainur] Healing powers of Ivrin Glaurung's effect on Nienor Rings' power in general (slo-time) UT ---------- The Elessar Powers of the Druedain "Alas! If some power passes from you to a thing that you have made, then you must take a share in its hurts."(11) (11)"These tales, such as _The Faithful Stone_, that speak of their transferring part of their 'powers' to thier artefacts, remind one in miniature of Sauron's transference of power to the foundations of the Barad-dur and to the Ruling Ring." VT #39 ---------- "Enquiry into the Communication of Thought": ["Men have the same faculty as the Quendi, but it is in itself weaker, and is weaker in operation owing to the stringth of the hroa, over which most men have small control by the will."] Weakened by hroa (body) of sender _and_ receiver Strengthened by affinity, urgency, authority. ------------------------------------------------------------------ Sorted List: (All that follows assumes the very most non-magical interpretation) Technology(?) (plus many not listed) --------------------------------- (H)Moon letters (H)Gandalf's staff/use of fire (H)Glowing swords (H)Elf gates sealed (H)Dwarf door hidden (L)the Morgul knife (L)Glorfindel's touch (L)Doors of Durin (L)Gandalf's staff (light) (L)Gandalf's destruction of the Bridge (L)Cloaks from Lorien (L)Lembas (L)Phial of Galadriel (L)Sam's box (L)Derndingle (Treebeard's home): lights, draughts (L)Saruman's voice (L)The Palantir (L)Sam's rope (L)Galadriel's ring flash upon parting (S)Creations of the Noldor The Nature of Things (plus many not listed) ------------------------------------------- (H)Beorn's transformations (L)Old Willow Man [(L)Tom's songs] +(L)The wraith world/world of the "unseen" (and Glorfindel therein) (L)Mirromere (L)Gandalf's affinity with Shadowfax (L)The Words of the Seer (and prophecy in general) (L)The Dead Men (L)The Black Shadow (Nazgul sickness) (L)Faramir's feeling of hope after Sauron's fall +(L)Silent "conversations" of the wise on the way home (L)Recurring (time dependent) nature of Frodo's injuries (L)The Straight Road (S)Feanor's body burning away (S)Healing powers of Ivrin +"Enquiry into the Communication of Thought": "Implicit" Magic (likely magical, but at least not active) ---------------------------------------------------------- (H)Elf-path was clear (L)Sheath for Anduril (never break?) (L)The horror of the Nazgul (cries, etc) (L)Merry's sword (?) (L)The Watchers in Cirith Ungol "Explicit" or "Active" Magic (not a doubt) ------------------------------------------ (H)Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) +(H;L)The Ring: all aspects (L)Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring n[(L)Tom's songs] t(L)Gandalf's lightning on Weathertop and on the Pelennor (L)Shattering of Frodo's sword t(L)Flood of the Brunien t(L)Gandalf's fire on Caradhras t(L)Gandalf's fire against the Wargs +(L)Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) (L)Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) n(L)Galadriel's tests of the company +(L)The Mirror of Galadriel t(L)Amon Hen (Seat of Seeing) n(L)Gandalf's warning (and perhaps Sauron's "beam of will") (L)Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others (L)Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld n(L)Dead Marshes: candles n(L)Effects of Ring's destruction n(L)Effect of Sauron's distraction on soldiers of Mordor (L)Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor (S)Finrod's song-battle against Sauron (S)Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) n(S)Glaurung's effect on Nienor +(S)Rings' power in general (slo-time) (UT)The Elessar +(UT)Powers of the Druedain ====================================================== Active Magic without question (plusses first) --------------------------------------------- A+(H;L)The Rings: all aspects A+(L)Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) +(L)The Mirror of Galadriel +(UT)Powers of the Druedain (H)Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) (L)Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring (L)Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) (see Rings) A(L)Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others A(L)Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld (L)Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor (S)Finrod's song-battle against Sauron (S)Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) (UT)The Elessar ###### Reply-To: "Noldor" From: "Noldor" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Lines: 245 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 17:07:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.14.181.94 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1035306447 63.14.181.94 (Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:07:27 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 10:07:27 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news.magnet.ch!solnet.ch!solnet.ch!newsfeed.freenet.de!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96937 Sting glowing when Orcs are near. -Matthew- > What once was lost has now been found. :) > > So, some disclaimers: I made this list by brainstorming several years > ago. I won't swear that it's complete, though I'd guess that it > contains ta substantial majority of the more "active" magic in _The > Hobbit_ and LotR. (The examples from elsewhere are just a sampling > that came to mind at the time.) At the risk of posting _way_ too > much, I'm going to include both my original list and a "sorted" list > breaking things down into different "categories" of magic (as > described in the essay I was working on at the time). Don't be > surprised if many entries in the list are rather cryptic: it wasn't > written for public consumption. :) > Steuard Jensen > > Magic in Middle-earth > > The Hobbit > ---------- > Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) > Moon letters > Gandalf's staff/use of fire > Glowing swords > The Ring: invisibility > Bjorn's transformations > Elf-path was clear > Elf gates sealed > Dwarf door hidden > > FotR > ---------- > I: > The Ring: > anti-aging > Read minds of other wearers > Command(?) > scaring orcs > weight (physical and mental) (in Mordor) > Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring > Old Willow Man > Tom's songs > Gandalf's lightning on Weathertop > the Morgul knife > Glorfindel's touch > The wraith world/world of the "unseen" (and Glorfindel therein) > Shattering of Frodo's sword > Flood of the Brunien > II: > Gandalf's fire on Caradhras > Gandalf's fire against the Wargs > Doors of Durin > Gandalf's staff (light) > Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) > Gandalf's destruction of the Bridge > Mirromere > Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) > Galadriel's tests of the company > The Mirror of Galadriel > Cloaks from Lorien > Lembas > Sheath for Anduril (never break?) > Phial of Galadriel > Sam's box > Amon Hen (Seat of Seeing) > Gandalf's warning (and perhaps Sauron's "beam of will") > > TT > ----------- > III: > Derndingle (Treebeard's home): lights, draughts > Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others > Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld > Gandalf's affinity with Shadowfax > Saruman's voice > The Palantir > IV: > Sam's rope > Dead Marshes: candles > > RotK > ----------- > V: > The Words of the Seer (and prophecy in general) > The Dead Men > The horror of the Nazgul (cries, etc) > More lightning by Gandalf > Merry's sword (?) > The Black Shadow (Nazgul sickness) > VI: > The Watchers in Cirith Ungol > Effects of Ring's destruction > Effect of Sauron's distraction on soldiers of Mordor > Faramir's feeling of hope after Sauron's fall > Silent "conversations" of the wise on the way home > Galadriel's ring flash upon parting > Recurring (time dependent) nature of Frodo's injuries > The Straight Road > App: > Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor > > Silm (no Ainu acts, please!) (probably incomplete) > ----------- > Creations of the Noldor > Feanor's body burning away > Finrod's song-battle against Sauron > Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) > [Beren's resurection][Ainur] > Healing powers of Ivrin > Glaurung's effect on Nienor > > Rings' power in general (slo-time) > > UT > ---------- > The Elessar > Powers of the Druedain > > "Alas! If some power passes from you to a thing that > you have made, then you must take a share in its hurts."(11) > (11)"These tales, such as _The Faithful Stone_, that speak > of their transferring part of their 'powers' to thier artefacts, > remind one in miniature of Sauron's transference of power to > the foundations of the Barad-dur and to the Ruling Ring." > > VT #39 > ---------- > "Enquiry into the Communication of Thought": > ["Men have the same faculty as the Quendi, but it is in itself > weaker, and is weaker in operation owing to the stringth of the > hroa, over which most men have small control by the will."] > Weakened by hroa (body) of sender _and_ receiver > Strengthened by affinity, urgency, authority. > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ > > Sorted List: > > (All that follows assumes the very most non-magical interpretation) > > Technology(?) (plus many not listed) > --------------------------------- > (H)Moon letters > (H)Gandalf's staff/use of fire > (H)Glowing swords > (H)Elf gates sealed > (H)Dwarf door hidden > (L)the Morgul knife > (L)Glorfindel's touch > (L)Doors of Durin > (L)Gandalf's staff (light) > (L)Gandalf's destruction of the Bridge > (L)Cloaks from Lorien > (L)Lembas > (L)Phial of Galadriel > (L)Sam's box > (L)Derndingle (Treebeard's home): lights, draughts > (L)Saruman's voice > (L)The Palantir > (L)Sam's rope > (L)Galadriel's ring flash upon parting > (S)Creations of the Noldor > > > The Nature of Things (plus many not listed) > ------------------------------------------- > (H)Beorn's transformations > (L)Old Willow Man > [(L)Tom's songs] > +(L)The wraith world/world of the "unseen" (and Glorfindel therein) > (L)Mirromere > (L)Gandalf's affinity with Shadowfax > (L)The Words of the Seer (and prophecy in general) > (L)The Dead Men > (L)The Black Shadow (Nazgul sickness) > (L)Faramir's feeling of hope after Sauron's fall > +(L)Silent "conversations" of the wise on the way home > (L)Recurring (time dependent) nature of Frodo's injuries > (L)The Straight Road > (S)Feanor's body burning away > (S)Healing powers of Ivrin > +"Enquiry into the Communication of Thought": > > > "Implicit" Magic (likely magical, but at least not active) > ---------------------------------------------------------- > (H)Elf-path was clear > (L)Sheath for Anduril (never break?) > (L)The horror of the Nazgul (cries, etc) > (L)Merry's sword (?) > (L)The Watchers in Cirith Ungol > > > "Explicit" or "Active" Magic (not a doubt) > ------------------------------------------ > (H)Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) > +(H;L)The Ring: all aspects > (L)Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring > n[(L)Tom's songs] > t(L)Gandalf's lightning on Weathertop and on the Pelennor > (L)Shattering of Frodo's sword > t(L)Flood of the Brunien > t(L)Gandalf's fire on Caradhras > t(L)Gandalf's fire against the Wargs > +(L)Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) > (L)Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) > n(L)Galadriel's tests of the company > +(L)The Mirror of Galadriel > t(L)Amon Hen (Seat of Seeing) > n(L)Gandalf's warning (and perhaps Sauron's "beam of will") > (L)Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others > (L)Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld > n(L)Dead Marshes: candles > n(L)Effects of Ring's destruction > n(L)Effect of Sauron's distraction on soldiers of Mordor > (L)Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor > (S)Finrod's song-battle against Sauron > (S)Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) > n(S)Glaurung's effect on Nienor > +(S)Rings' power in general (slo-time) > (UT)The Elessar > +(UT)Powers of the Druedain > > ====================================================== > > Active Magic without question (plusses first) > --------------------------------------------- > A+(H;L)The Rings: all aspects > A+(L)Gandalf vs. Balrog in the Chamber of the Marzibul (Word of Command) > +(L)The Mirror of Galadriel > +(UT)Powers of the Druedain > (H)Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) > (L)Nazgul urging Frodo to put on the Ring > (L)Lorien's overall enchantment (time, trees' life) (see Rings) > A(L)Gandalf's tricks upon meeting the others > A(L)Gandalf's tricks in Meduseld > (L)Galadriel's destruction of Dol Guldor > (S)Finrod's song-battle against Sauron > (S)Luthien's cloak, and general stompiness (throws down Minas Tirith) > (UT)The Elessar ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 22 Oct 2002 17:57:06 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 42-moo-3.acn.waw.pl (62.121.78.42) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1035309426 28157970 62.121.78.42 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!42-moo-3.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97010 On 22 pa? 2002, "Noldor" scribbled loosely: > > Sting glowing when Orcs are near. > Umm have you read the list at all? It's number 4. -- Pradera --- Akai suna no ue ni saita shiroi hana Daiyou no mashita de yureru chiisana kage Tori no mure ga naiteiru Douzo Douzo Shiawase ni http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ ###### Reply-To: "Noldor" From: "Noldor" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Lines: 19 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 18:53:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 67.217.50.76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1035312782 67.217.50.76 (Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:53:02 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 11:53:02 PDT Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.news2me.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96936 > On 22 pa? 2002, "Noldor" scribbled loosely: > > > > > Sting glowing when Orcs are near. > > > > Umm have you read the list at all? It's number 4. > > -- > Pradera Actually, I read the list three times. Each time thinking "how could he have missed that?". This is obviously a case of the original post being edited so as to drive me insane. :-) -Matthew- ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 31 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1035317237 128.135.12.7 (Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:07:17 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 15:07:17 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: Vdit9-19655-V4-8323@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: ade90e73 739a0a8b 8f00bef7 68bafbc8 bd942e6b Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 20:07:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.fjserv.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsswitch.lcs.mit.edu!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96947 Quoth "Noldor" in article : > Sting glowing when Orcs are near. [I wrote:] > > The Hobbit > > ---------- ... > > Glowing swords My apologies for the great roughness of the lists that I posted: as I said, I made them entirely for my own immediate use without intending to share them publicly, and thus wasn't particularly clear in my organization or editing. I know it can be hard to find things in there, but hey, it's a starting point, anyway. I'm sure that there _are_ examples that I've left out (and probably that there are others which I thought of as falling under a general heading that was already present and have now forgotten). :) On another note, my post was about 220 lines long. In general, it's good netiquette to aim to have more lines of new material than quoted material. Thus, in a post consisting of one line of new content, quoting 220 lines of old stuff is probably a bit excessive (particularly as you were claiming that none of it was relevant!). On top of that, it's generally best to post _below_ quoted material than above it (another argument for removing as much quoted material as you can). For more hints on netiquette, take a look at the "Newsgroups and Netiquette" section of the Tolkien Newsgroups FAQ, which you can find from http://tolkien.slimy.com/. (The rest of the FAQ is pretty good, too. :) ) Steuard Jensen ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 22 Oct 2002 20:49:30 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 42-moo-3.acn.waw.pl (62.121.78.42) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1035319770 28689921 62.121.78.42 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeder.edisontel.com!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!42-moo-3.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97014 On 22 pa? 2002, sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) scribbled loosely: > On another note, my post was about 220 lines long. In general, it's > good netiquette to aim to have more lines of new material than quoted > material. Thus, in a post consisting of one line of new content, > quoting 220 lines of old stuff is probably a bit excessive > (particularly as you were claiming that none of it was relevant!). On > top of that, it's generally best to post _below_ quoted material than > above it (another argument for removing as much quoted material as you > can). For more hints on netiquette, take a look at the "Newsgroups > and Netiquette" section of the Tolkien Newsgroups FAQ, which you can > find from http://tolkien.slimy.com/. (The rest of the FAQ is pretty > good, too. :) ) Woah, Steuard, that was almost a rant from you :) -- Pradera --- Akai suna no ue ni saita shiroi hana Daiyou no mashita de yureru chiisana kage Tori no mure ga naiteiru Douzo Douzo Shiawase ni http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ ###### From: stephen@nomail.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 22 Oct 2002 20:54:30 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 32 Sender: stephen@nomail.com Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: delhi.cse.msu.edu User-Agent: tin/1.4.3-20000502 ("Marian") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xmission!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96953 Steuard Jensen wrote: : Quoth Peter Knutsen in article : <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk>: :> > > I've read, in several places, that when writing the magic system :> > > used in the new Lord of the Rings RPG from Decipher, the rules :> > > designers had a five page long document mentioning all the magic :> > > depicted in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. : ... :> > > Steuard Jensen has written that he once had such a paper :> > > (presumably he wrote it himself) but that he lost it. : What once was lost has now been found. :) : So, some disclaimers: I made this list by brainstorming several years : ago. I won't swear that it's complete, though I'd guess that it : contains ta substantial majority of the more "active" magic in _The : Hobbit_ and LotR. (The examples from elsewhere are just a sampling : that came to mind at the time.) At the risk of posting _way_ too : much, I'm going to include both my original list and a "sorted" list : breaking things down into different "categories" of magic (as : described in the essay I was working on at the time). Don't be : surprised if many entries in the list are rather cryptic: it wasn't : written for public consumption. :) : Steuard Jensen You left out the Troll's talking purse, and Gurthang, which spoke to Turin, both of which seem magical. Also, the Witch King seemed to use some sort of spell against the gates of Minas Tirith. Stephen ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 22 Oct 2002 21:04:23 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 42-moo-3.acn.waw.pl (62.121.78.42) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1035320663 28689921 62.121.78.42 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!42-moo-3.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97021 On 22 pa? 2002, stephen@nomail.com scribbled loosely: > You left out the Troll's talking purse, and Gurthang, which > spoke to Turin, both of which seem magical. Also, the Witch > King seemed to use some sort of spell against the gates of > Minas Tirith. > Plus, does 'Durin's Door' mean only magic used in the Door itself, or all Gandalf's attempts to open it as well? These are one of the very few actual spells uttered by him, after all... -- Pradera --- Akai suna no ue ni saita shiroi hana Daiyou no mashita de yureru chiisana kage Tori no mure ga naiteiru Douzo Douzo Shiawase ni http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/ ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 14:53:22 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: Reply-To: softrat@pobox.com References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.92/32.572 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: abuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!sn-xit-03!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97026 On 22 Oct 2002 20:54:30 GMT, stephen@nomail.com wrote: > >Also, the Witch King seemed to use some sort of spell against the gates of >Minas Tirith. > Very potent spell, called '10 kilos of gelignite'! the softrat "He who rubs owls" the Zulu Princess mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- I love defenceless animals, especially in a good gravy. ###### From: sophia Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 23:40:43 +0100 Organization: The Court of Faerie Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: arxana.demon.co.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain;charset=us-ascii;format=flowed X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 1035327203 19941 193.237.43.175 (22 Oct 2002 22:53:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 22 Oct 2002 22:53:23 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Turnpike/6.02-U () Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!newsfeed.stueberl.de!kibo.news.demon.net!news.demon.co.uk!demon!arxana.demon.co.uk!sophia Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:96973 In article , Steuard Jensen writes > >The Hobbit >---------- >Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) >Moon letters >Gandalf's staff/use of fire >Glowing swords >The Ring: invisibility >Bjorn's transformations >Elf-path was clear >Elf gates sealed >Dwarf door hidden Gandalf tries 'various incantations' to open the door of the trolls' lair (unsuccessfully). When they have obtained and hidden the trolls' loot the dwarves put ' a great many spells' over the cache of gold they hide to come back latter for. The secret door in the cave in the pass might be magic, might not. The dwarves' skill of talking to birds might also be magic. > -- Sophia Faith in Fabulousness ###### From: klehner@att.net (Ken Lehner) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 23 Oct 2002 13:47:00 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 18 Message-ID: <43ce22e7.0210231247.45b1a4bc@posting.google.com> References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.128.134.68 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1035406021 17049 127.0.0.1 (23 Oct 2002 20:47:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:47:01 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!uninett.no!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news.tele.dk!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97194 sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in message news:... > The Hobbit > ---------- > Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) > Moon letters > Gandalf's staff/use of fire > Glowing swords > The Ring: invisibility > Bjorn's transformations > Elf-path was clear > Elf gates sealed > Dwarf door hidden The hole in the (stone wall of the) goblin cave which opens and shuts? The enchanted river in Mirkwood that imparts sleep? The ability of Bard to naturally understand bird language? Ken Lehner ###### From: Pradera Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: List of all the magic on The Hobbit/LOTR? Date: 23 Oct 2002 20:52:41 GMT Organization: Your Company Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: <3D8AA233.62C3E64@knutsen.dk> <2f9adb4c.0209272243.12c36c3f@posting.google.com> <3DB1039A.6A709B1E@knutsen.dk> <43ce22e7.0210231247.45b1a4bc@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 42-moo-3.acn.waw.pl (62.121.78.42) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 1035406361 29970309 62.121.78.42 (16 [146550]) User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!42-moo-3.acn.waw.PL!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:97215 On 23 pa? 2002, klehner@att.net (Ken Lehner) scribbled loosely: >> Smoke Rings (Gandalf _and_ Thorin) >> Moon letters >> Gandalf's staff/use of fire >> Glowing swords >> The Ring: invisibility >> Bjorn's transformations >> Elf-path was clear >> Elf gates sealed >> Dwarf door hidden > > The hole in the (stone wall of the) goblin cave which opens and shuts? > The enchanted river in Mirkwood that imparts sleep? > The ability of Bard to naturally understand bird language? > Bard's ever-returning Black Arrow... Beorn's walking animals... It seems there's already a large update to the list needed. -- Pradera --- Akai suna no ue ni saita shiroi hana Daiyou no mashita de yureru chiisana kage Tori no mure ga naiteiru Douzo Douzo Shiawase ni http://www.pradera-castle.prv.pl/