Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Where did Thorongil go? X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 41 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1018713491 128.135.12.7 (Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:58:11 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 10:58:11 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: nAYt8-2168-s4-418@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: b4509a4a 172878cf a50e9718 d93fd4cb 4d697325 Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 15:58:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84307 So, you'll recall that Aragorn once served in the army and navy of Gondor in the days of Denethor's father; he became a renowned captain under the name "Thorongil". However, right after he led a great victory over Umbar, he left: 'He sent a message of farewell to Ecthelion, saying: "Other tasks now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I come again to Gondor, if that be my fate." Though none could guess what those tasks might be, nor what summons he had received, it was known whither he went. For he took boat and crossed over Anduin, and there he said farewell to his companions and went on alone; and when he was last seen his face was towards the Mountains of Shadow. --- RotK, Appendix A (section on the Ruling Stewards) So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks awaited him in the direction of Mordor? A little extra information: App. B says that Aragorn's great journeys and errantries (including his Thorongil period) lasted from 2957-80. The entry for 2980 includes Aragorn arriving in Lorien and meeting Arwen there, Theoden becoming King, and "around this time" Gollum arriving near Mordor and becoming acquainted with Shelob. However, keep in mind that Gandalf didn't ask Aragorn to help him search for Gollum until 3001 (nobody seems to have been aware of his movements before then), and that Aragorn's departure to Mordor could easily have been well before 2980 (if his "great journeys" continued after his time as "Thorongil"). None of the other events in the Tale of Years between 2957 and 2980 seem relevant: Frodo was born, Denethor got married and had his first son, and Bain became King of Dale. At this point, I can't think of answers to either of my questions. It's possible that Aragorn chose to leave on his own, before his rising popularity came to affect Gondorian politics too much or inspired too much ire in Denethor, so there may have been no "summons" to draw him away, but that doesn't explain why he went to Mordor of all places. I'll look forward to everyone else's ideas. (For the record, I haven't looked to see if this has been discussed before; I mainly wanted to get some interesting discussion going. :) ) Steuard Jensen ###### From: "me" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Lines: 50 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.254.236.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@attbi.com X-Trace: sccrnsc02 1018739177 12.254.236.150 (Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:06:17 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:06:17 GMT Organization: AT&T Broadband Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:06:17 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!netnews.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!wn14eed!wn2feed!worldnet.att.net!204.127.198.203!attbi_feed3!attbi.com!sccrnsc02.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84296 I seem to recall Aragorn tell someone that he went scouting into moordor when he was told "that shadow has awakend" in morgul or somehting to that effect.......i really need to read em again to refresh my memory so i can quote better, but i believe this was the summons you mentioned. "Steuard Jensen" wrote in message news:nAYt8.1$s4.368@news.uchicago.edu... > So, you'll recall that Aragorn once served in the army and navy of > Gondor in the days of Denethor's father; he became a renowned captain > under the name "Thorongil". However, right after he led a great > victory over Umbar, he left: > > 'He sent a message of farewell to Ecthelion, saying: "Other tasks > now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I > come again to Gondor, if that be my fate." Though none could guess > what those tasks might be, nor what summons he had received, it was > known whither he went. For he took boat and crossed over Anduin, > and there he said farewell to his companions and went on alone; and > when he was last seen his face was towards the Mountains of Shadow. > --- RotK, Appendix A (section on the Ruling Stewards) > > So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks > awaited him in the direction of Mordor? > > A little extra information: App. B says that Aragorn's great journeys > and errantries (including his Thorongil period) lasted from 2957-80. > The entry for 2980 includes Aragorn arriving in Lorien and meeting > Arwen there, Theoden becoming King, and "around this time" Gollum > arriving near Mordor and becoming acquainted with Shelob. However, > keep in mind that Gandalf didn't ask Aragorn to help him search for > Gollum until 3001 (nobody seems to have been aware of his movements > before then), and that Aragorn's departure to Mordor could easily have > been well before 2980 (if his "great journeys" continued after his > time as "Thorongil"). None of the other events in the Tale of Years > between 2957 and 2980 seem relevant: Frodo was born, Denethor got > married and had his first son, and Bain became King of Dale. > > At this point, I can't think of answers to either of my questions. > It's possible that Aragorn chose to leave on his own, before his > rising popularity came to affect Gondorian politics too much or > inspired too much ire in Denethor, so there may have been no "summons" > to draw him away, but that doesn't explain why he went to Mordor of > all places. I'll look forward to everyone else's ideas. > > (For the record, I haven't looked to see if this has been discussed > before; I mainly wanted to get some interesting discussion going. :) ) > > Steuard Jensen ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 13 Apr 2002 23:27:41 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 3 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 1018740461 18196 128.214.205.14 (13 Apr 2002 23:27:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Apr 2002 23:27:41 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!212.37.1.10!newsfeed01.nntp.se.dataphone.net!nntp.se.dataphone.net!feeder1.news.jippii.net!news.cc.tut.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84342 Maybe he went to see what was going on in Mordor. He knew that there would be a major conflict sooner or later, so it would be wise if at least somebody knew what roads or waterspots the area had. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? References: X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 14 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1018757201 128.135.12.7 (Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:06:41 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 23:06:41 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: lf7u8-7044-s4-1519@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: 58fd2370 97a0adf3 16d03714 3fb0aee2 d107cd7e Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 04:06:41 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!128.135.12.170.MISMATCH!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84319 Quoth Tamim in article : > Maybe he went to see what was going on in Mordor. He knew that there > would be a major conflict sooner or later, so it would be wise if at > least somebody knew what roads or waterspots the area had. I'll grant you that it would be useful to learn that information, but if that were his motive, why would Aragorn have gone alone? Why not take a small company along with him? And what's the use of him learning all that information if he didn't pass it along to anyone in Gondor after finding it out? I think there must have been something else behind his sudden departure. Steuard Jensen ###### From: Josep Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:41:55 +0000 (UTC) Organization: Your Company Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 193-153-55-106.uc.nombres.ttd.es X-Trace: nsnmpen2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net 1018780915 10028 193.153.55.106 (14 Apr 2002 10:41:55 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@nsnmpen2-gest.nuria.telefonica-data.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 14 Apr 2002 10:41:55 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Xnews/L5 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!newsfeed.r-kom.de!newsfeed.stueberl.de!news.netway.at!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newsfeed.mad.ttd.net!nsnmpen1-lo.nuria.telefonica-data.net!nsnmpen2-lo.nuria.telefonica-data.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84362 sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in news:lf7u8.19 $s4.1484@news.uchicago.edu: > why would Aragorn have gone alone? Why not > take a small company along with him? Because when you are the best Ranger in Middle Earth, anybody else is going to hinder you > And what's the use of him > learning all that information if he didn't pass it along to anyone in > Gondor after finding it out? I think there must have been something > else behind his sudden departure. I would say that Aragorn discovered that Denethor had already suspicions about him, and he did not want to reveal himself as the HEir of Isildur before time came PEp ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 14 Apr 2002 12:00:11 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 1018785611 25360 128.214.205.14 (14 Apr 2002 12:00:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Apr 2002 12:00:11 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!oleane.net!oleane!freenix!newsfeed.rt.ru!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!feeder1.news.jippii.net!news.cc.tut.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84339 Steuard Jensen wrote: > I'll grant you that it would be useful to learn that information, but > if that were his motive, why would Aragorn have gone alone? Because he was a loner? Because when scouting you really don't need a large company: During the war our *kaukopartiomiehet* worked behind the lines in pairs. > Why not > take a small company along with him? And what's the use of him > learning all that information if he didn't pass it along to anyone in > Gondor after finding it out? Good question. He might even have contacted the Gondorians indirectly after he came back through somebody else. However I doubt that. He wasn't a saint after all and his ambition already at that time apparently was to claim the throne of Gondor. And he knew that he wouldn't just been given the crown on a silver plate (It had been asked by one of his ancestors without success). So he witheld that information because it wasn't needed at that time and because when it would be needed he would have an ace up his sleeve. Of course all this is pure speculation. > I think there must have been something > else behind his sudden departure. His departure yes. I think you are valiantly trying to invent a subject for discussion and hoping it would last for some time and thus are complicating a rather simple matter. We don't know, but to me and probably to most, it seems quite obvious that he left because he didn't want and couldn't, at that time, to claim the throne. Had he stayed there eventually would have been a confrontation between him and Denethor. So he left somewhere hoping that someday the tides would turn in his favour. Mordor was a good direction because he couldn't have hoped to get the crown by sitting and drinking in the prancing pony. ###### From: "TradeSurplus" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 64.252.69.54 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr10.news.prodigy.com 1018882760 ST000 64.252.69.54 (Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:59:20 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 10:59:20 EDT Organization: Prodigy Internet http://www.prodigy.com X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_A\S@YRQTYFJKXOFXB[B]NQBQLGPQRZUEK@YUDUWYAKVUOPCW[ML\JXUCKVFDYZKBMSFX^OMSAFNTINTDDMVW[X\THOPXZRVOCJTUTPC\_JSBVX\KAOTBAJBVMZTYAKMNLDI_MFDSSOLXINH__FS^\WQGHGI^C@E[A_CF\AQLDQ\BTMPLDFNVUQ_VM Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 14:59:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!207.115.63.138!newscon04.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr10.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84389 Steuard Jensen wrote ... >So, you'll recall that Aragorn once served in the army and navy of >Gondor in the days of Denethor's father; he became a renowned captain >under the name "Thorongil". However, right after he led a great >victory over Umbar, he left: > > 'He sent a message of farewell to Ecthelion, saying: "Other tasks > now call me, lord, and much time and many perils must pass, ere I > come again to Gondor, if that be my fate." Though none could guess > what those tasks might be, nor what summons he had received, it was > known whither he went. For he took boat and crossed over Anduin, > and there he said farewell to his companions and went on alone; and > when he was last seen his face was towards the Mountains of Shadow. > --- RotK, Appendix A (section on the Ruling Stewards) > >So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks >awaited him in the direction of Mordor? I've no idea what called him away but I did think that we shouldn't get too caught up in him going to Mordor. If he left his companions at the shores of Anduin then just walking to the main North/South road in Ithilien would mean walking towards the Mountains of Shadow. He may well have intended just to get to the road to hasten his journey North or South and had no intention of going any nearer to Mordor. Trade. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? References: X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 24 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: news.uchicago.edu 1018897165 128.135.12.7 (Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:59:25 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 13:59:25 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago X-SessionID: hqFu8-22653-s4-6720@news.uchicago.edu X-Hash-Info: post-filter,v:1.4 X-Hash: cd02fcac a6da6a5b b524c69a 03bf38d9 fe08acba Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:59:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!128.135.12.170.MISMATCH!news.uchicago.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84472 Quoth "TradeSurplus" in article : > Steuard Jensen wrote ... > >So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks > >awaited him in the direction of Mordor? > I've no idea what called him away but I did think that we shouldn't > get too caught up in him going to Mordor. If he left his companions > at the shores of Anduin then just walking to the main North/South > road in Ithilien would mean walking towards the Mountains of Shadow. Very good point! If he had traveled through populated areas of Gondor when he left, they would have had a much clearer idea of where he was going (and perhaps a chance for messengers of the Steward to head him off and beg him to return). That may well be all there is to it: he knew he had to leave if he wanted to avoid a conflict with Denethor, and he knew that to leave successfully he couldn't go through populated regions of Gondor. Going toward Mordor would certainly discourage people from following him! :) Well, that's a simple answer to what I thought might be a complex question. Heck, it's probably even true. :) Steuard Jensen ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 15 Apr 2002 21:34:39 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: sirppi.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 1018906479 8953 128.214.205.27 (15 Apr 2002 21:34:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Apr 2002 21:34:39 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (OSF1/V4.0 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!opentransit.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!213.204.128.162!news000.worldonline.se!newsfeed01.nntp.se.dataphone.net!nntp.se.dataphone.net!feeder1.news.jippii.net!news.cc.tut.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84478 Steuard Jensen wrote: > Quoth "TradeSurplus" in article > : >> Steuard Jensen wrote ... >> >So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks >> >awaited him in the direction of Mordor? >> I've no idea what called him away but I did think that we shouldn't >> get too caught up in him going to Mordor. If he left his companions >> at the shores of Anduin then just walking to the main North/South >> road in Ithilien would mean walking towards the Mountains of Shadow. > Well, that's a simple answer to what I thought might be a complex > question. Heck, it's probably even true. :) Doubt it. When Tolkien hints something it's usually what really happened or is going to happen. ###### From: mair_fheal@yahoo.com (rand mair fheal) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: Mon, 15 Apr 2002 18:55:17 -0700 Organization: tos coyote Message-ID: References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!c74.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84549 see also the thread about aragorn in bree so how did striider know about the nazguls ###### From: cohlinn@rocketmail.com (Cathy Ooi) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 16 Apr 2002 05:24:36 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 45 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.172.47.82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018959876 18638 127.0.0.1 (16 Apr 2002 12:24:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Apr 2002 12:24:36 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!easynews!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84559 sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) wrote in message news:... > So, my question is, what summons _did_ he receive, and what tasks > awaited him in the direction of Mordor? I'd always wondered where he went after Umbar. I'm not certain that he had been summoned. Galadriel or Gandalf or even Elrond might have sent it. My personal theory is that he was summoned by one of the Valars or Maia or even Illuvatar. However, I don't think he left to avoid confrontation with Denethor as some suggested. I am more inclined to your opinion that he'd rather not affect Gondorian politics too much. A subtle difference. Ecthelion was still very much alive. And a big "Welcome back" is waiting for him in Minas Tirith. However, it seemed in line with his character that he'd rather avoid the the publicity, since he's supposed to be working in secret. Also, he should know how Denethor felt about him. The accolade would have aggravated Denethor even more. As to where he went, I think he did go into Morder, at the very least Minas Morgul. Perhaps that's part of the journey that took him to Harad and Rhun as well. I have the impression (especially in ROTK) that Aragorn knew Mordor and it's layout personally, rather than through hearsay and maps. It might have been part of his quest in "exploring the hearts of Man" both good and evil. The most compelling evidence, for me, is that in 2980, he decided to go home to Rivendell since his heart was weary. He was admitted into Lothlorien, where he met Arwen again. Galadriel seems to know him well (by reputation) or perhaps has seen into the future possibility of Aragorn marrying Arwen. But I digress. Why was he weary? He's homesick after several decades of absence? Or exploring enemy teritories had sapped his spirit? Those mysterious years from 2957-80 might have included journey into Moria as well.But's another story / thread. :) > None of the other events in the Tale of Years > between 2957 and 2980 seem relevant: Frodo was born, Denethor got > married and had his first son, and Bain became King of Dale. Wait a minute! I don't have the books with me. When did the White Council attack Dol Guldur? The White Council, which includes the Gandalf and Galadriel, might have summoned Aragorn if they're planning an attack. ###### From: "Raven" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 22:59:44 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.15 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1018994212 195.82.196.15 (Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:56:52 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 16 Apr 2002 23:56:52 MET DST Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!freenix!deine.net!newsfeed.online.be!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84574 "Cathy Ooi" skrev i en meddelelse news:ca2feb45.0204160424.281ac90b@posting.google.com... > Wait a minute! I don't have the books with me. When did the White > Council attack Dol Guldur? The White Council, which includes the > Gandalf and Galadriel, might have summoned Aragorn if they're planning > an attack. The White Council attacked Dol Guldur in the same year as Bilbo found the Ring, about the same time as he was passing through Mirkwood probably: some time after Gandalf left the Company and before he came to Dale to rejoin them. This happened in 2941. Aragorn, being born in 2931, would have been ten at the time. Craban. ###### From: cohlinn@rocketmail.com (Cathy Ooi) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 18 Apr 2002 23:09:44 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 202.172.47.82 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1019196584 10908 127.0.0.1 (19 Apr 2002 06:09:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Apr 2002 06:09:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!feed.newsfeeds.com!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84941 "Raven" wrote in message news:... > "Cathy Ooi" skrev i en meddelelse > news:ca2feb45.0204160424.281ac90b@posting.google.com... > > > Wait a minute! I don't have the books with me. When did the White > > Council attack Dol Guldur? The White Council, which includes the > > Gandalf and Galadriel, might have summoned Aragorn if they're planning > > an attack. > The White Council attacked Dol Guldur in the same year as Bilbo found > the Ring, about the same time as he was passing through Mirkwood > probably: some time after Gandalf left the Company and before he came to > Dale to rejoin them. This happened in 2941. Aragorn, being born in > 2931, would have been ten at the time. > > Craban. Well, that rules out this possibility. Thanks. ###### From: urban@panix.com (Michael Urban) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Where did Thorongil go? Date: 19 Apr 2002 10:07:57 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 14 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: reader1.panix.com 1019225210 27860 166.84.1.3 (19 Apr 2002 14:06:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 19 Apr 2002 14:06:50 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!logbridge.uoregon.edu!panix!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84892 In article , Raven wrote: > The White Council attacked Dol Guldur in the same year as Bilbo found >the Ring, about the same time as he was passing through Mirkwood >probably: some time after Gandalf left the Company and before he came to >Dale to rejoin them. This happened in 2941. Aragorn, being born in >2931, would have been ten at the time. > I have sometimes thought that a nice bit of "fan fiction" could be written based on a scene in the Last Homely House in which Bilbo meets a ten-year old boy named Estel who is fascinated by the blade that would be known as Sting ("Really? From Gondolin? _I_ can tell you about Gondolin, but you _really_ should talk to Glorfindel...").