From: rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: The weight of food Date: 4 Apr 2002 20:28:35 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 22 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.139.72.227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1017980915 24965 127.0.0.1 (5 Apr 2002 04:28:35 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 5 Apr 2002 04:28:35 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!esplande3000.net!isdnet!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:82989 I'm not a hiker, but I've been reading a book about hiking... says a hiker needs something like 1 kilo dry weight of food (carbohydrate) per day. Let's say this is true of Men, and Hobbits consume less food. Something like 7-9 kilos dry weight per day for the entire Fellowship of Nine. Say that The Fellowship takes a month to reach the Gates of Moria from Rivendell. The party would need..... 210 to 270 kilogrammes dry weight of food for the journey? And that's not counting all the other gear. Poor Bill the Pony!! Cruelty to animals!! Can a pony carry that much? ;-) After breaking the Fellowship, the party go their ways on foot. Without Bill, Sam and Frodo would have had to lug an enormous weight of food to get to Mordor, about 3 weeks. I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a cart. Even so I think he underestimated the weight of supplies needed for the journey to Moria, or else he would have given the fellowhip 2 ponies rather than 1. ###### From: kern@grinnell.edu (Chris Kern) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 05:11:13 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3cad31d0.53801576@news.newsguy.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: p-317.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!logbridge.uoregon.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews3 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:82959 On 4 Apr 2002 20:28:35 -0800, rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) posted the following: >I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and >deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into >Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a >cart. You are absolutely correct. In the letter where JRRT is criticizing a proposed movie, he mentions that Lembas was a device of the story to make the long journeys seem credible. -Chris ###### From: Jay Random Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: Thu, 04 Apr 2002 22:35:03 -0700 Organization: Bondwine Communications Lines: 43 Message-ID: <3CAD3787.6030509@bondwine.ca> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: h-207-228-71-35.gen.cadvision.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: news3.cadvision.com 1017984908 3107 207.228.71.35 (5 Apr 2002 05:35:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@cadvision.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 5 Apr 2002 05:35:08 +0000 (UTC) User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Macintosh; U; PPC; en-US; rv:0.9.4) Gecko/20011022 Netscape6/6.2 X-Accept-Language: en-us Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp.abs.net!nntp.cadvision.com!207.228.64.17.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:82922 rozniy wrote: > I'm not a hiker, but I've been reading a book about hiking... says a > hiker needs something like 1 kilo dry weight of food (carbohydrate) > per day. Let's say this is true of Men, and Hobbits consume less food. > Something like 7-9 kilos dry weight per day for the entire Fellowship > of Nine. > > Say that The Fellowship takes a month to reach the Gates of Moria from > Rivendell. The party would need..... 210 to 270 kilogrammes dry weight > of food for the journey? And that's not counting all the other gear. > Poor Bill the Pony!! Cruelty to animals!! Can a pony carry that much? > ;-) > > After breaking the Fellowship, the party go their ways on foot. > Without Bill, Sam and Frodo would have had to lug an enormous weight > of food to get to Mordor, about 3 weeks. > > I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and > deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into > Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a > cart. Even so I think he underestimated the weight of supplies needed > for the journey to Moria, or else he would have given the fellowhip 2 > ponies rather than 1. Nowhere is it said that the Fellowship did not carry anything in their packs while they had Bill with them. As for the journey to Mordor, Frodo & Sam _ran out of food_ before reaching Mount Doom, & that was on very short rations. They would have run out much sooner if Faramir had not given them supplies at Henneth Annûn. It was perfectly clear from the outset that they had nothing like enough provisions to get them from Emyn Muil to Mount Doom. As for _lembas_, there were definitely other issues involved there. One thing Tolkien certainly had in mind was the various reports of Catholic ascetics surviving long periods of time on nothing more than Communion wafers & water. _Lembas_ was one of the ways in which Tolkien's religion was sublimated into the symbolism of the tale. ###### Message-ID: <3CAD81E0.DC8452D6@mfx.net> From: pmhilton@mfx.net X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 04:52:15 CST Organization: Giganews.Com - Premium News Outsourcing X-Trace: sv3-NiENrjudimGwwM6Ntv0OB+d2iyWh9oq6IckOS9sihxU0HmzD1wnKlqiV9sbVRBGOcEDi/Zh1mjNZ33q!lJ+Mrl0SWf2GYvACq3wl6TEUNvyfAj+ukeaZoF28CxOMB5SuGM/qiYQ= X-Complaints-To: abuse@GigaNews.Com X-DMCA-Notifications: http://www.giganews.com/info/dmca.html X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly Date: Fri, 05 Apr 2002 10:52:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!nntp2.aus1.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!nntp3.aus1.giganews.com!bin5.nnrp.aus1.giganews.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83007 rozniy wrote: > > Say that The Fellowship takes a month to reach the Gates of Moria from > Rivendell. The party would need..... 210 to 270 kilogrammes dry weight > of food for the journey? And that's not counting all the other gear. > Poor Bill the Pony!! Cruelty to animals!! Can a pony carry that much? > > After breaking the Fellowship, the party go their ways on foot. > Without Bill, Sam and Frodo would have had to lug an enormous weight > of food to get to Mordor, about 3 weeks. > A number of points: As others have noted, the scarcity of food toward the journey's end was a crucial plot factor. As the journey began, you have at least Legolas & Aragorn who are adept at living off the land. Even Gollum was able to provide fish; Sam & Frodo had their pair of coneys with the interesting subplot element in Gollum's reaction to broiled meat. Tolkien wrote of people who do not have our prepackaged attitudes toward prepackaged food and the other neccessities of a lengthy journey. As a relatively recent parallel, the history of the Maine woods is filled with hunters, trappers, rangers & others who would do quite well for many weeks in the deep woods taking with them only a little flour, salt pork, salt & tea, and making do with what they found for fish, game & edible vegetable matter along the way. Yours in the north Maine woods, Pete Hilton aka The Ent -- There are two sides to every argument unless someone is personally involved in which case there is only one. anon. ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: 6 Apr 2002 09:02:42 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 1018083762 10994 128.214.205.14 (6 Apr 2002 09:02:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Apr 2002 09:02:42 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83107 > I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and > deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into > Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a > cart. Even so I think he underestimated the weight of supplies needed > for the journey to Moria, or else he would have given the fellowhip 2 > ponies rather than 1. I have two theories 1) Aragorn was a ranger accustomed to the wilds and I don't think the other non-hobbit members were that unexperienced travellers either. They probably did forage and hunt for food on the way. 2) Gildor's gang apparently could make food out of thin air. Why couldn't have Legolas done the same? ###### X-Trace-PostClient-IP: 24.109.100.252 From: jsavard@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid (John Savard) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Message-ID: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> References: X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 15 Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 17:00:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.70.95.207 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shaw.ca X-Trace: news3.calgary.shaw.ca 1018112436 24.70.95.207 (Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:00:36 MST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Apr 2002 10:00:36 MST Organization: Shaw Residential Internet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!peer1-sjc1.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!pd2nf1so.cg.shawcable.net!residential.shaw.ca!news3.calgary.shaw.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83096 On 4 Apr 2002 20:28:35 -0800, rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) wrote, in part: >I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and >deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into >Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a >cart. Even so I think he underestimated the weight of supplies needed >for the journey to Moria, or else he would have given the fellowhip 2 >ponies rather than 1. Didn't he have some references to them hunting and foraging on their journey? John Savard http://members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/index.html ###### From: rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: 10 Apr 2002 22:59:17 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.139.72.227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018504758 24936 127.0.0.1 (11 Apr 2002 05:59:18 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Apr 2002 05:59:18 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84085 jsavard@ecn.aSBLOKb.caNADA.invalid (John Savard) wrote in message news:<3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net>... > On 4 Apr 2002 20:28:35 -0800, rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) wrote, in > part: > > >I get the feeling Tolkien was aware of the food-weight problem, and > >deliberately "invented" lembas so that Frodo and Sam could walk into > >Mordor without being overly encumbered with food or needing to haul a > >cart. Even so I think he underestimated the weight of supplies needed > >for the journey to Moria, or else he would have given the fellowhip 2 > >ponies rather than 1. > > Didn't he have some references to them hunting and foraging on their > journey? > > John Savard > http://members.shaw.ca/quadibloc/index.html The Fellowship started out from Rivendell in winter. I imagine game would be a bit scarce. But I'm no hunter. :-) A question to ask ye who have trekked the wild and foraged: what food would old-time travellers look for? Boromir took 110 days to get to Rivendell. Poor guy must have been really hungry at the end!! (Unless of course, he made a brief detour to Bree, or perhaps even entering the Shire?) ###### From: Ingeborg Denner Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: Thu, 11 Apr 2002 13:31:54 +0200 Organization: Siemens Business Services Lines: 45 Message-ID: <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: r3292.erlf.siemens.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.bredband.com!bredband!luth.se!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!newsfeed.siemens.de!news.siemens.de!news.fth.sbs.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84103 rozniy wrote: > > > The Fellowship started out from Rivendell in winter. I imagine game > would be a bit scarce. But I'm no hunter. :-) > > A question to ask ye who have trekked the wild and foraged: what food > would old-time travellers look for? Edible plants, nuts and berries, wild fruit. Some might still be left in early winter. If you travel through areas where people once lived you may still find remnants of garden or field plants. In the right time of year you can steal eggs from birds' nests. You can catch fish all year round. If you hunt: Rabbits don't hibernate, neither do deer and wild sheep. Many birds do *not* migrate, or their 'south' is about the latitude of Eriador. The climate of Eriador does not seem that harsh, even in winter. From the Shire we know that snow was rare even there, and the fellowship did not find the lake on the front gate of Moria frozen, nor did they expect it to be. There wasn't even much rain during their journey from Rivendell, AFAIR. > > Boromir took 110 days to get to Rivendell. Poor guy must have been > really hungry at the end!! Boromir had no reason to avoid settlements, quite the contrary: After all, he was looking for a place he knew only by name, so asking around would be a good idea. I guess if you were looking for people, you'd find some, even in Eriador, and where there are people, a traveller can probably buy food or trade for it. Plus, he was riding, not walking and probably had a packhorse or two. inge -- "I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost === -- Stories, RPG & stuff. ###### From: arebello64@hotmail.com (AR) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: 11 Apr 2002 08:26:49 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 27 Message-ID: <2a4798d.0204110726.21c5f61e@posting.google.com> References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.63.224.50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018538810 10378 127.0.0.1 (11 Apr 2002 15:26:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Apr 2002 15:26:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!sfo2-feed1.news.algx.net!allegiance!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84059 rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) wrote in message news:... > > The Fellowship started out from Rivendell in winter. I imagine game > would be a bit scarce. But I'm no hunter. :-) > > A question to ask ye who have trekked the wild and foraged: what food > would old-time travellers look for? > > Boromir took 110 days to get to Rivendell. Poor guy must have been > really hungry at the end!! (Unless of course, he made a brief detour > to Bree, or perhaps even entering the Shire?) > Also in "Flight to the Ford" Aragorn mentions that hunting and foraging just takes too long to be useful when people are trying to travel quickly. I think the same theory would apply to the journey to Moria. People hike the appalachian trail and go for weeks without re-supplying and this without any ponies. As for Boromir, he really wasn't travelling in a deserted area or in hostile territory until he passed through the Gap of Rohan. I think its reasonabe to assume that he stopped at Edoras and possibly other settlements in Rohan to resupply. Still he may have had to do some hunting before he made it to Rivendel, especially after he lost his horse. -AR ###### From: "Brett Evill" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 11:52:42 +1000 Organization: unaffiliated Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3cb6407e$1@iridium.webone.com.au> References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> NNTP-Posting-Host: iridium.webone.com.au Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: merki.connect.com.au 1018577033 9899 210.8.44.3 (12 Apr 2002 02:03:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@connect.com.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Apr 2002 02:03:53 GMT X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express for Macintosh - 4.01 (295) X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: dial-ctb03139.webone.com.au X-Original-Trace: 12 Apr 2002 12:03:42 +1000, dial-ctb03139.webone.com.au Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.syd.connect.com.au!iridium.webone.com.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83940 In article <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> , Ingeborg Denner wrote: >Boromir had no reason to avoid settlements, quite the contrary: After >all, he was looking for a place he knew only by name, so asking around >would be a good idea. I guess if you were looking for people, you'd find >some, even in Eriador, and where there are people, a traveller can >probably buy food or trade for it. Plus, he was riding, not walking and >probably had a packhorse or two. Didn't he lose his horse fording the Greyflood at Tharbad? -- Regards, Brett Evill ###### From: rozniy@yahoo.com (rozniy) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: 12 Apr 2002 02:05:15 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> <2a4798d.0204110726.21c5f61e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.139.72.227 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1018602315 10745 127.0.0.1 (12 Apr 2002 09:05:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Apr 2002 09:05:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84073 Tamim wrote thusly: "2) Gildor's gang apparently could make food out of thin air. Why couldn't have Legolas done the same?" When I first read LOTR, I thought Gildor & Gang produced food by magic at Woodhall, like you did. But later, I thought that maybe the Elves had a cache of food stored there and hidden by magic. Sort of like an Elven-caravanserai for travellers. ###### From: Ingeborg Denner Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The weight of food Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2002 14:27:20 +0200 Organization: Siemens Business Services Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3CB6D2A8.F8803210@gmx.de> References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> <3cb6407e$1@iridium.webone.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: r3292.erlf.siemens.de Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.imp.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed.freenet.de!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!news-hub.cableinet.net!blueyonder!btnet-peer!btnet!lnewspeer01.lnd.ops.eu.uu.net!emea.uu.net!newsfeed.siemens.de!news.fth.sbs.de!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:84095 Brett Evill wrote: > > In article <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> , Ingeborg Denner > wrote: > > >Boromir had no reason to avoid settlements, quite the contrary: After > >all, he was looking for a place he knew only by name, so asking around > >would be a good idea. I guess if you were looking for people, you'd find > >some, even in Eriador, and where there are people, a traveller can > >probably buy food or trade for it. Plus, he was riding, not walking and > >probably had a packhorse or two. > > Didn't he lose his horse fording the Greyflood at Tharbad? Yes, but that was about... halfway there? Are there more detailed accounts of Boromir's journey to Rivendell than the one he gives at the council in any source text? inge (curious) -- "I hold it to be the inalienable right of anybody to go to hell in his own way." - Robert Frost === -- Stories, RPG & stuff. ###### From: "Peter J Charlton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> <3cb6407e$1@iridium.webone.com.au> <3CB6D2A8.F8803210@gmx.de> Subject: Re: The weight of food Lines: 39 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:02:29 +1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.54.202.41 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 1018616584 210.54.202.41 (Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:03:04 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:03:04 NZST Organization: Xtra Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83945 "Ingeborg Denner" wrote in message news:3CB6D2A8.F8803210@gmx.de... > > > Brett Evill wrote: > > > > In article <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> , Ingeborg Denner > > wrote: > > > > >Boromir had no reason to avoid settlements, quite the contrary: After > > >all, he was looking for a place he knew only by name, so asking around > > >would be a good idea. I guess if you were looking for people, you'd find > > >some, even in Eriador, and where there are people, a traveller can > > >probably buy food or trade for it. Plus, he was riding, not walking and > > >probably had a packhorse or two. > > > > Didn't he lose his horse fording the Greyflood at Tharbad? > > Yes, but that was about... halfway there? > > Are there more detailed accounts of Boromir's journey to Rivendell than > the one he gives at the council in any source text? > > inge > > (curious) We know that he borrowed the horse in Rohan. Eomer: "Long has Boromir son of Denethor been gone seeking an answer, and the horse that we lent him came back riderless." So, Boromir actually *lost* his horse. He gives the impression at the council that the horse drowned, but no, he just misplaced it. ###### From: "Peter J Charlton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3caf2a85.13735303@news.ed.shawcable.net> <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> <3cb6407e$1@iridium.webone.com.au> <3CB6D2A8.F8803210@gmx.de> Subject: Re: The weight of food Lines: 49 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: <_sBt8.373$dw5.68721@news.xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:39:35 +1200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.54.202.41 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 1018618810 210.54.202.41 (Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:40:10 NZST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 13 Apr 2002 01:40:10 NZST Organization: Xtra Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-out.spamkiller.net!propagator2-maxim!propagator-maxim!news-in.spamkiller.net!telocity-west!TELOCITY!203.109.225.2!nntp-relay.ihug.net!newsfeeds.ihug.co.nz!ihug.co.nz!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:83975 "Peter J Charlton" wrote in message news:cWAt8.370$dw5.67146@news.xtra.co.nz... > > "Ingeborg Denner" wrote in message > news:3CB6D2A8.F8803210@gmx.de... > > > > > > Brett Evill wrote: > > > > > > In article <3CB5742A.557D7AF7@gmx.de> , Ingeborg Denner > > > wrote: > > > > > > >Boromir had no reason to avoid settlements, quite the contrary: After > > > >all, he was looking for a place he knew only by name, so asking around > > > >would be a good idea. I guess if you were looking for people, you'd > find > > > >some, even in Eriador, and where there are people, a traveller can > > > >probably buy food or trade for it. Plus, he was riding, not walking and > > > >probably had a packhorse or two. > > > > > > Didn't he lose his horse fording the Greyflood at Tharbad? > > > > Yes, but that was about... halfway there? > > > > Are there more detailed accounts of Boromir's journey to Rivendell than > > the one he gives at the council in any source text? > > > > inge > > > > (curious) > > We know that he borrowed the horse in Rohan. > > Eomer: "Long has Boromir son of Denethor been gone seeking an > answer, and the horse that we lent him came back riderless." > > So, Boromir actually *lost* his horse. He gives the impression at the > council that the horse drowned, but no, he just misplaced it. > Actually, as I recall now, not at the Council of Elrond, but as a comment made to Celeborn before leaving Lorien. "Four hundred leagues I reckoned it, and it took me many months; for I lost my horse at Tharbad, at the fording of the Greyflood."