From: shermanlee1@hotmail.com (Johnny1A) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Shire public finances... Date: 31 Mar 2002 16:22:21 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 34 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.206.150.116 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1017620542 9467 127.0.0.1 (1 Apr 2002 00:22:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 1 Apr 2002 00:22:22 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:82590 I recently commented that a declining economy could be the reason for declining travel between the Shire and Bree. In that vein, here's another matter: How did the Shire pay its Shirriffs and Post-hobbits? We sometimes say that that Shire had no government, but that's clearly not true. The Mayor was elected at the Free Fair (I assume that anyone who wanted to vote went to the Fair). The Mayor, it is said, was in charge of the Shirriffs, all 12 of them, 3 to a Farthing, plus the Bounders, who varied at need to watch the borders and keep outsiders from making trouble. Also, the Mayor was in charge of organizing the Shire Post, which was apparently a fairly busy organization. I assume riders carried the mail from village to village, and either there was a post-office in each village, or maybe a post-Hobbit would go from house to hole with the individual mail. Either way, these Hobbits would have to be compensated somehow. Yet there was no sign of anything like a tax on anything. Where did Will Whitfoot, Frodo Baggins, and Sam Gamgee get the money to pay their personnel? Or might they had been paid in kind? If so, who supplied the goods? Finally, how did one get to be a member of the Shire military, the Hobbitry-in-Arms and the Shire-Moot (mentioned seperately, so maybe they were two different bodies). The Thain comanded them, and I suppose _technically_ the Thain ultimately oversaw the Mayor, since the Thain represented the authority of the King of Arnor _in absentia_. I wonder if the Shire had a draft? :-) Shermanlee ###### Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 16:43:20 -0800 (PST) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: From: ct@theblackpit.net (Cave Troll) Subject: Shire public finances... Organization: Moria ISP Lines: 20 References: Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Shire public finances... Organization: Starship Enterprises Message-ID: <08efauk28hnrdak7f4763u1e4u80bd6pt3@4ax.com> Cancel-Lock: sha1:YRbnPp/N7TS5yL2XA2+OrhJWmmg= References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-NFilter: 1.2.1-b1 Lines: 103 Date: Mon, 01 Apr 2002 02:12:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.205.171.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1017627149 24.205.171.46 (Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:12:29 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 31 Mar 2002 18:12:29 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!171.64.14.106!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!207.217.77.43.MISMATCH!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!stamper.news.pas.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:82588 On 31 Mar 2002 16:22:21 -0800, shermanlee1@hotmail.com (Johnny1A) wrote: >I recently commented that a declining economy could be the reason for >declining travel between the Shire and Bree. In that vein, here's >another matter: > >How did the Shire pay its Shirriffs and Post-hobbits? > In pastries, no doubt >We sometimes say that that Shire had no government, but that's clearly >not true. >The Mayor was elected at the Free Fair (I assume that anyone who >wanted to vote went to the Fair). The Mayor, it is said, was in >charge of the Shirriffs, all 12 of them, 3 to a Farthing, plus the >Bounders, who varied at need to watch the borders and keep outsiders >from making trouble. > The Shire had a volunteer militia that never drilled and everyone was expected to turn out for fire fighting or a wolf raiding the flocks. It had about as much law as any other small, remote county in medieval England; that is to say, "none at all". Strider mentioned (somewhat bitterly) that for generations his Rangers had protected the borders of the Shire in fulfillment of ancient compact and w/o demanding payment or acknowledgement. (Sidenote: Do you suppose that company of archers they raised for the King *really distinguished itself* before it was overrun and lost, and the Rangers protected the Shire in honor of that sacrifice? Hobbits were regarded as "small in stature but great in heart and with a great resilience" long before Bilbo left the Shire. Something to think about) >Also, the Mayor was in charge of organizing the Shire Post, which was >apparently a fairly busy organization. I assume riders carried the >mail from village to village, and either there was a post-office in >each village, or maybe a post-Hobbit would go from house to hole with >the individual mail. Either way, these Hobbits would have to be >compensated somehow. > The Shire made most of its coin from trading with the Big Folk: wool, meat, ale, and pipeweed with weed being probably the biggest moneymaker. That money naturally made its way through the populace and provided the revenues to the Shire that allowed the Mayor to hire Sheriffs and run the mail. There's no mention of what Bilbo did for a living before he made a fortune at the Lonely Mountain; seemed to have been living off the proceeds of his father's business, whatever that was. Hey! Maybe Bilbo's father was the professional thief and Gandalf hoped some of that had rubbed off on his ne'er do well son! >:) >Yet there was no sign of anything like a tax on anything. Where did >Will Whitfoot, Frodo Baggins, and Sam Gamgee get the money to pay >their personnel? Or might they had been paid in kind? If so, who >supplied the goods? > >Finally, how did one get to be a member of the Shire military, the >Hobbitry-in-Arms and the Shire-Moot (mentioned seperately, so maybe >they were two different bodies). The Thain comanded them, and I >suppose _technically_ the Thain ultimately oversaw the Mayor, since >the Thain represented the authority of the King of Arnor _in >absentia_. I wonder if the Shire had a draft? :-) Someone ran by yelling "FEAR! FOE! FIRE!" and you dropped what you were doing unless it was hard and knobby (no cracks, please!) and ran after him yelling the same until you figured out what the excitement was about. Hobbits had about the most disorganized militia possible until they needed it and then they just sort of melded together into one deadly effective whole. Tolkien mentioned that from youth they were incredible shots with any hurled or strung weapon and if a hobbit stooped for a stone whatever it was he was aiming at had better get out of the way, fast. Wonder if it'd be appropriate to tell my story...? YaTaHey. Running one of my first games of D&D, I had the players on a fairly simple mission: Take important dispatches from one town to the next over. So they're going along the road and they come to a bend and I roll to see if anything is waiting for them around the curve, yes there was. What is it/DMG random encounter table/Halflings. Halflings? OK, this isn't planned, what does the Monster Manual say a normal halfling encounter look like? Rolled some dice, there were 107 halflings, 1% in their lair. Huh? OK, it's a halfling road crew. The road ahead washed out in the last rains, their whole village turned out to fix it and make it into something of an outing. So I figured the party would walk around the curve, say "Hello", maybe stop for lunch. They turned the corner, I rolled reaction for the halflings, rolled an "01" where "100" was the next best thing to a marriage proposal. The party got swarmed by 106 3' tall homicidal maniacs armed with shovels, pickaxes, and throwing stones. It was a couple of weeks before any of them would talk to me. >:) -- "For all the days of your life prepare, And meet them ever alike. When you are the anvil bear, And when the hammer strike."