Lines: 8 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: moocow1985@aol.complicated (Lisa Marie) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 28 Jan 2002 02:03:52 GMT Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: how to pronounce a double t? Message-ID: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nnxp1.twtelecom.net!news-east.rr.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74941 In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds weird. Lisa PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? I'm having trouble with that one too. ###### From: Eric Root Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 22:57:58 -0500 Organization: Info Avenue Internet Services, LLC Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> Reply-To: eroot@swva.net NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-094-ct12.citizens.swva.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news3.infoave.net 1012190294 1046 66.37.76.94 (28 Jan 2002 03:58:14 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@infoave.net NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 03:58:14 +0000 (UTC) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!news.infoave.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75722 Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they don't exist within a single word in English (although they do in lots of other languages). They do however, exist in English straddling the juncture of two words: tt as in "cat tongue", dd as in "bad dog", bb as in "flab bottom", pp as in "top pad." Another way to look at it is, you pause on the double consonant for a split second, then move on. Yavanna is pronounced "yavan na" -Eric Root Lisa Marie wrote: > In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you > lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, > I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds weird. > > Lisa > > PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? I'm > having trouble with that one too. ###### From: jblanks@mindspring.com (Jeff Blanks) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 23:55:25 -0500 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: cf.45.ab.fa X-Server-Date: 28 Jan 2002 04:55:25 GMT X-Newsreader: MT-NewsWatcher 2.4.4 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!nntp.cs.ubc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!jblanks Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75090 moocow1985@aol.complicated (Lisa Marie) wrote: >In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you >lengthen a t sound? You don't, really. It's probably a matter of how the word was constructed. >PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? I'm >having trouble with that one too. European _i_. Or do you mean "what in _Quenya_"? In that case, it's closest to a more acute version of short "e"--somewhere between short "e" and long English "a" (which is really a diphthong). -- "That's a damned lie! We must die anyway." --W.H. Auden, on his poem "September 1, 1939" ###### From: "tyy" <_tyy_@_mbnet.fi_> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:10:20 +0200 Organization: SAUNALAHDEN asiakas Lines: 37 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.197.216.3 X-Trace: tron.sci.fi 1012212593 9546 195.197.216.3 (28 Jan 2002 10:09:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@saunalahti.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Jan 2002 10:09:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!173479!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!nf3.bellglobal.com!news.stealth.net!news.cc.tut.fi!uutiset.saunalahti.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75781 "Lisa Marie" wrote in message news:20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com... > In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you > lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, > I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds weird. > > Lisa > A good question. Double consonants (geminates) are very common in Finnish language. For example Kissa = a cat Lautta = a ferry And yes, they are pronounced differently to single consonants. There is a pause in the word (so it takes longer to say it). Notable is, that in Finnish language double consonants belong in different syllables (Kis-sa, Laut-ta). When pronouncing a double consonant you kind of pause the word after first consonant and start the latter syllable again with the same one. Many Finnish words even take a different meaning if there is a double consonant, so it really makes a diffrence. Kisa = a contest Lauta = a plank Some linguists experts are welcome to correct my unprofessional explanation. Even if Tolkien used Finnish when inventing Quenya, I really do not know if the procounciantion of double consonants is similar. -- tyy ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:14:28 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 28 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.ae X-Server-Date: 28 Jan 2002 19:13:01 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74495 Lisa Marie wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you >lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, >I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds weird. > >Lisa > >PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? I'm >having trouble with that one too. Are you asking, what does an Elvish long e sound like? Like the vowel in French thé. Most European languages have a similar long-e sound. English is the exception. There is no English equivalent for the European long e, but the closest is the vowel in "lake". Listen closely and you'll hear that the vowel in "lake" is actually two vowels run together (called a diphthong): a long eh followed by a brief ee. The "pure" sound at the beginning of the vowel in "lake" is what you're looking for. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site) Tolkien letters FAQ: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:16:09 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.ae X-Server-Date: 28 Jan 2002 19:14:42 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75666 Eric Root wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they don't exist >within a single word in English filling gunner copper etc. Could you clarify what you really meant? -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site) Tolkien letters FAQ: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: Adrian Ratnapala Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: 29 Jan 2002 10:34:44 GMT Organization: University of Queensland Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: s369625.student.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1012300484 14840 172.20.76.33 (29 Jan 2002 10:34:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jan 2002 10:34:44 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.3 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75063 In article <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com>, Lisa Marie wrote: > In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you > lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, You just start the t sound and hold tight for a silent moment and then let it out good and hard. At least that's how it works in Sinhala, and I beleive Japanese. Don't know Quenya myself. > PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? I'm > having trouble with that one too. Like a short e but longer I beleive :) As in Eeeeexcelent. Cheers. ###### From: Adrian Ratnapala Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: 29 Jan 2002 10:36:07 GMT Organization: University of Queensland Lines: 11 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: s369625.student.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1012300567 14840 172.20.76.33 (29 Jan 2002 10:36:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jan 2002 10:36:07 GMT User-Agent: slrn/0.9.7.3 (Linux) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75083 In article , Stan Brown wrote: > Eric Root wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >>Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they don't exist >>within a single word in English > > filling > gunner > copper Say the word "copper" and then say the words "cop pervert". What is the difference in the "p" sound? ###### From: "tyy" <_tyy_@_mbnet.fi_> Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:02:13 +0200 Organization: SAUNALAHDEN asiakas Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.197.216.3 X-Trace: tron.sci.fi 1012312910 9468 195.197.216.3 (29 Jan 2002 14:01:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@saunalahti.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 Jan 2002 14:01:50 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.media.kyoto-u.ac.jp!news.cc.tut.fi!uutiset.saunalahti.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75793 "Adrian Ratnapala" wrote in message news:a35tun$efo$15@bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au... > In article , Stan Brown wrote: ... > > Say the word "copper" and then say the words "cop pervert". What is the > difference in the "p" sound? Exactly right. -- tyy ###### From: Robert Gordon Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:43:55 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <3C57098B.E84BB3C4@loop.com> Reply-To: srgordon@loop.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75741 Eric Root wrote: > Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they don't exist > within a single word in English (although they do in lots of other languages). Another poster here has mentioned Finnish, which is rife with double consonants. And Estonian has both double and triple length consonants. But one doesn't have to go that far afield in relation to English. The language English speakers are most likely to encounter which has doubled consonants is Italian. One of the most important things in learning to pronounce Italian is to get comfortable with this. For example, the Italian word for "night" is "notte", and, as you explained, you pronounce this by holding the stopped t slightly before moving on to the final e. -- Rob Gordon ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:15:09 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 29 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on potato.bti.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.bti.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1012349709 20503 132.236.86.124 (30 Jan 2002 00:15:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jan 2002 00:15:09 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74544 In article , Adrian Ratnapala wrote: > In article <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com>, Lisa Marie > wrote: > > In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do > > you > > lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? > > Forgive me, > You just start the t sound and hold tight for a silent moment and then > let it out good and hard. > > At least that's how it works in Sinhala, and I beleive Japanese. Don't > know Quenya myself. > > > PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? > > I'm > > having trouble with that one too. > > Like a short e but longer I beleive :) > > As in > > Eeeeexcelent. No. -- "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 19:18:20 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 30 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on potato.bti.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.bti.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1012349899 20503 132.236.86.124 (30 Jan 2002 00:18:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jan 2002 00:18:19 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!114713!news.imp.ch!news.stealth.net!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74540 In article <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com>, moocow1985@aol.complicated (Lisa Marie) wrote: > In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do > you > lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? > Forgive me, > I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds > weird. Okay, I can pronounce doubled stops (according to the folks who speak languages that pronounce them regularly--and much to their surprise), so let's see if I can figure out how I do it. Let's use the word "according". In English pronunciation, even though we have two "c" letters, we have only one /k/ sound. Try pronouncing it a bit differently--stop saying the word at "ac" and then resume saying it at "cording". Make the time space between "ac" and "cording" as short as you can but still distinct from the normal pronunciation of "according". Then try it with a word like "different". > PS. While I'm at it, what in English does a long e sound closest to? > I'm > having trouble with that one too It is close to the second vowel in epée, if pronounced like good French. -- "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." ###### From: Bryan Maloney Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: 30 Jan 2002 14:41:36 GMT Organization: Flarg Wa Zoo Lines: 28 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on syr-24-58-37-210.twcny.rr.com) Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: syr-24-58-37-210.twcny.rr.com X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1012401696 21056 24.58.37.210 (30 Jan 2002 14:41:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jan 2002 14:41:36 GMT User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:76074 brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote in news:MPG.16bf6d86df20980098ce6c@news.mindspring.com: > Eric Root wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >>Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they >>don't exist within a single word in English > > filling > gunner > copper No double consonants here, merely double letters. The sounds indicated in each case ("ll", "nn", "pp") are identical to the sounds indicated by the corresponding single letter ("l", "n", "p"). A consonant is not a letter. A consonant is a sound. -- "Why then did the passengers on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh decide to resist the hijackers and prevent them from completing their mission? Because they knew: their relatives had told them by cell phone that the World Trade Center had already been attacked by hijacked planes. They were armed with final awareness of the nature of the evil they faced. So armed, they could act. So armed, they did." --Time Magazine ###### From: Bryan Maloney Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: 30 Jan 2002 14:43:39 GMT Organization: Flarg Wa Zoo Lines: 23 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on syr-24-58-37-210.twcny.rr.com) Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: syr-24-58-37-210.twcny.rr.com X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1012401819 21056 24.58.37.210 (30 Jan 2002 14:43:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 Jan 2002 14:43:39 GMT User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.stealth.net!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:76093 brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote in news:MPG.16bf6d22baafa0db98ce6b@news.mindspring.com: > Listen closely and you'll hear that the vowel in "lake" is actually > two vowels run together (called a diphthong): a long eh followed by > a brief ee. The "pure" sound at the beginning of the vowel in "lake" > is what you're looking for. The first sound in that diphthong is not merely a lengthened "English short e". It is a significantly higher and more fronted sound. -- "Why then did the passengers on the plane that went down near Pittsburgh decide to resist the hijackers and prevent them from completing their mission? Because they knew: their relatives had told them by cell phone that the World Trade Center had already been attacked by hijacked planes. They were armed with final awareness of the nature of the evil they faced. So armed, they could act. So armed, they did." --Time Magazine ###### From: Paul S. Person Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: how to pronounce a double t? Date: Sun, 03 Feb 2002 07:54:58 -0800 Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <20020127210352.08191.00000167@mb-dh.aol.com> <3C54CC43.15932869@swva.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.79.21.f7 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 3 Feb 2002 15:49:33 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.9/32.560 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news-in-sanjose!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:76310 Eric Root wrote: >Linguists call doubled consonants "geminate" = "twinned" and they don't exist >within a single word in English (although they do in lots of other languages). >They do however, exist in English straddling the juncture of two words: tt as in >"cat tongue", dd as in "bad dog", bb as in "flab bottom", pp as in "top pad." >Another way to look at it is, you pause on the double consonant for a split >second, then move on. Yavanna is pronounced "yavan na" > >-Eric Root > >Lisa Marie wrote: > >> In Quenya, when a letter is doubled, it has a longer sound, but how do you >> lengthen a t sound? Or a d, b, or p sound? (Do those even exist? Forgive me, >> I'm a new student.) Do you just say two t's in a row? That just sounds weird. I seem to pronounce the /noun/ "attribute" as "at-tribute". Could the fact that the first syllable is stressed in the noun have something to do with this? -- You are not being ignored! With rare exceptions: I download on Saturdays. I upload on Sundays. Patience is a virtue