Reply-To: "Jason Fisher" From: "Jason Fisher" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Lines: 13 Organization: Editor, Active Server Developer's Journal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.227.128.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr30.news.prodigy.com 1011806328 ST000 206.227.128.12 (Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:18:48 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:18:48 EST X-UserInfo1: T[OGR^KGPRWSP_T[LJJ\OPLI[B]NQHYILA]T]_MIJQR@EPIB_VUKAH_[MTX\IS[K[NGYJJFNOFZR_G[BUNTAOQLFE^TEHRPI]PZZRP_BMDSFQFL_]CBHXRWCMDCUZAZN@D_AKMNLEI]MWHCSXL^]NNC__CZFGSGHYYXWPFG@SCAVA]\FT\@B\RDGENSUQS^M Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:18:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr30.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73709 Hey everyone! I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there about the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" in "see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? Let the debate begin! :) Jason ###### From: Xaonon Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:26:52 GMT Organization: HappyFunballCo., an EAC subsidiary Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: machamp-59.dynamic.rpi.edu User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 X-Irony-Meter: Running X-Mind-Control-Beam: Activated X-Evil-Atheist-Conspiracy: Nonexistent X-Face: &bcb4xsXm@H#^Kf~OQPdHWI}y@t}f+Dm3e2GM9RZ6<9\[[XvgAwi8YdY!"c='T76b^7I.GWj<0wK,ROK.!volji'Vutjy&ss5JQfWijX"uWbI% Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73768 Ned i bach , Jason Fisher teithant i thiw hin: > Hey everyone! > > I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there about > the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. > Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys > think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" in > "see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? Final "ë" is pronounced exactly like non-final "e"; the diaresis indicated that the sound does not change, or vanish like it often does in English. Finwë should be said roughly "fin-weh". (The 'h' is only there to keep the "e" from sounding like "ee". English pronunciation rules are stupid.) -- Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1 Visit The Nexus Of All Coolness (a.k.a. my site) at http://xaonon.cjb.net/ "No more gods, no more faith, no more timid holding back. The future belongs to posthumanity." -- Max More ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:47:32 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 34 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on potato.bti.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.bti.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1011811653 15463 132.236.86.124 (23 Jan 2002 18:47:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:47:33 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.syr.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73721 In article , "Jason Fisher" wrote: > Hey everyone! > > I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there > about > the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. > Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys > think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" > in > "see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? > Neither. It should use the same vowel sound found in "bed" (represented by "epsilon" in the International Phonetic Alphabet (IPA). Before anybody "corrects" me, Tolkien's use of "were" as a model in the LotR appendix is contradicted by his own reading of Namarië (http://www.salon.com/audio/2000/10/05/tolkien_elvish/index.html) and his own pronunciation of "elen síla lúmenn' omentielvo", so he was, unfortunately, relying upon a false universality for his own dialect in explaining certain sounds in the Appendix to LotR. Unfortunately, the majority of people pronounce the vowel sound in "were" as the sound represented by "inverted epsilon" in the IPA, a distinctly different sound. The long and short is that ë = e, both of which are to be pronounced as the vowel in "bed" (in the majority of English dialects). The diaresis over the "e" indicates no sound change, whatsoever. -- "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:50:24 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 30 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on potato.bti.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.bti.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1011811823 15463 132.236.86.124 (23 Jan 2002 18:50:23 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jan 2002 18:50:23 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!logbridge.uoregon.edu!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73724 In article , Xaonon wrote: > Ned i bach , > Jason > Fisher teithant i thiw hin: > > > Hey everyone! > > > > I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there > > about > > the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. > > Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys > > think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" > > in > > "see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? > > Final "ë" is pronounced exactly like non-final "e"; the diaresis > indicated > that the sound does not change, or vanish like it often does in English. > Finwë should be said roughly "fin-weh". (The 'h' is only there to keep > the > "e" from sounding like "ee". English pronunciation rules are stupid.) English pronunciation rules are quite intelligent. English ORTHOGRAPHY rules are stupid. -- "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." ###### From: Xaonon Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:00:38 GMT Organization: HappyFunballCo., an EAC subsidiary Lines: 34 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: machamp-59.dynamic.rpi.edu User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 X-Irony-Meter: Running X-Mind-Control-Beam: Activated X-Evil-Atheist-Conspiracy: Nonexistent X-Face: &bcb4xsXm@H#^Kf~OQPdHWI}y@t}f+Dm3e2GM9RZ6<9\[[XvgAwi8YdY!"c='T76b^7I.GWj<0wK,ROK.!volji'Vutjy&ss5JQfWijX"uWbI% Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73772 Ned i bach , Bryan J. Maloney teithant i thiw hin: > In article , Xaonon > wrote: > > > Ned i bach , > > Jason Fisher teithant i thiw hin: > > > > > Hey everyone! > > > > > > I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there > > > about the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and > > > words. Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do > > > you guys think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like > > > the "ee" in "see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? > > > > Final "ë" is pronounced exactly like non-final "e"; the diaresis > > indicated that the sound does not change, or vanish like it often does in > > English. Finwë should be said roughly "fin-weh". (The 'h' is only there to > > keep the "e" from sounding like "ee". English pronunciation rules are > > stupid.) > > English pronunciation rules are quite intelligent. English ORTHOGRAPHY > rules are stupid. And so are the rules on *how* to pronounce a given bit of orthography, which is what I meant. -- Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1 Visit The Nexus Of All Coolness (a.k.a. my site) at http://xaonon.cjb.net/ "No more gods, no more faith, no more timid holding back. The future belongs to posthumanity." -- Max More ###### Reply-To: "Jason Fisher" From: "Jason Fisher" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Lines: 10 Organization: Editor, Active Server Developer's Journal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.227.128.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr30.news.prodigy.com 1011812751 ST000 206.227.128.12 (Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:05:51 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:05:51 EST X-UserInfo1: TSU[@I_AOPTQR_\YHBCB^]\@PJ_^PBQLGPQRJWQHBATBTSUBYFWEAE[YJLYPIWKHTFCMZKVMB^[Z^DOBRVVMOSPFHNSYXVDIE@X\BUC@GTSX@DL^GKFFHQCCE\G[JJBMYDYIJCZM@AY]GNGPJD]YNNW\GSX^GSCKHA[]@CCB\[@LATPD\L@J\\PF]VR[QPJN Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:05:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newscon01.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr30.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74013 > ... snip ... > The long and short is that ë = e, both of which are to be pronounced as > the vowel in "bed" (in the majority of English dialects). The diaresis > over the "e" indicates no sound change, whatsoever. Sound reasoning. Although it's a little strange to add such a "weak" vowel to the end of a word, a little strange for an American English speaker anyway. ###### Reply-To: "Jason Fisher" From: "Jason Fisher" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Lines: 5 Organization: Editor, Active Server Developer's Journal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.227.128.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr30.news.prodigy.com 1011812809 ST000 206.227.128.12 (Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:06:49 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:06:49 EST X-UserInfo1: OX[QRWSESB^US]@YKBH\OQMAPJYRUWPHDY^L\UQHWIWDUWYADNVOPCKZBL\NX_KHV^GY[KVMG^ZPNHSCZNS[^UXFJVWYXVXKBH[XRWWBBDTN@AX\JSBVH]_@T\EKJHBMZ\_WZJFNRY]YWKSPED_U^NC\HSZ\WS[KEAYI@DO@\K@BP\LD[\GTMPLDFVU]ASJM Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:06:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.hanau.net!news-fra1.dfn.de!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!207.115.63.138!newscon04.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr30.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73708 >English pronunciation rules are stupid. Err, that was uncalled for. ###### From: Xaonon Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: 23 Jan 2002 19:10:37 GMT Organization: HappyFunballCo., an EAC subsidiary Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: machamp-59.dynamic.rpi.edu User-Agent: Xnews/4.06.22 X-Irony-Meter: Running X-Mind-Control-Beam: Activated X-Evil-Atheist-Conspiracy: Nonexistent X-Face: &bcb4xsXm@H#^Kf~OQPdHWI}y@t}f+Dm3e2GM9RZ6<9\[[XvgAwi8YdY!"c='T76b^7I.GWj<0wK,ROK.!volji'Vutjy&ss5JQfWijX"uWbI% Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!uwm.edu!rpi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:73765 Ned i bach , Jason Fisher teithant i thiw hin: > > ... snip ... > > The long and short is that ë = e, both of which are to be pronounced as > > the vowel in "bed" (in the majority of English dialects). The diaresis > > over the "e" indicates no sound change, whatsoever. > > Sound reasoning. Although it's a little strange to add such a "weak" vowel > to the end of a word, a little strange for an American English speaker > anyway. That's why clarification with the diaresis is necessary. -- Xaonon, EAC Chief of Mad Scientists and informal BAAWA, aa #1821, Kibo #: 1 Visit The Nexus Of All Coolness (a.k.a. my site) at http://xaonon.cjb.net/ "No more gods, no more faith, no more timid holding back. The future belongs to posthumanity." -- Max More ###### Reply-To: "Jason Fisher" From: "Jason Fisher" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Lines: 6 Organization: Editor, Active Server Developer's Journal X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.227.128.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@prodigy.net X-Trace: newssvr30.news.prodigy.com 1011813218 ST000 206.227.128.12 (Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:13:38 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:13:38 EST X-UserInfo1: TSU[@SNDTZRYBUH]]ZN@_TDAYZOZ@GXOXR]ZMVMHQAVTUZ]CLNTCPFK[WDXDHV[K^FCGJCJLPF_D_NCC@FUG^Q\DINVAXSLIFXYJSSCCALP@PB@\OS@BITWAH\CQZKJMMD^SJA^NXA\GVLSRBD^M_NW_F[YLVTWIGAXAQBOATKBBQRXECDFDMQ\DZFUE@\JM Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:13:38 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!newscon02.news.prodigy.com!newsmst01.news.prodigy.com!prodigy.com!postmaster.news.prodigy.com!newssvr30.news.prodigy.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74004 > That's why clarification with the diaresis is necessary. I've always pronounced the vowel, in any case; but growing up, I tended to pronounce it long rather than short. ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:55:58 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74191 On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:18:49 GMT, "Jason Fisher" wrote: > >I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there about >the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. >Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys >think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" in >"see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? > Neither. "fin-weh". In other words, a monophthongal short 'e', as in 'bet'. the softrat "He who rubs owls" mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "A new study shows that licking a frog can cure depression. The down side is, the minute you stop licking, the frog gets depressed again." --Jay Leno ###### From: Emilie Karr Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:19:54 -0500 Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts Lines: 15 Message-ID: <3C4F1AEA.5408A916@law.harvard.edu> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: net-38395.law.harvard.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.fas.harvard.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74050 Jason Fisher wrote: > > >English pronunciation rules are stupid. > > Err, that was uncalled for. Really? I'm a native English speaker and I completely agree. Of course I think French pronunciation rules could use some help too. Now Japanese, that has reasonable pronuniciation rules (and makes up for it by having one of the world's most complicated writing systems - two different kana and kanji? ya~argh!) Languages wouldn't be so fun if they were reasonable! emilie ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:16:53 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.88 X-Server-Date: 23 Jan 2002 21:15:45 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed2.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74189 Jason Fisher wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >Hey everyone! > >I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there about >the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. >Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys >think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" in >"see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? I pronounce Finwë as "FINN-weh" or even "FINN-wuh". (Think of a short e, or a schwa.) -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site) Tolkien letters FAQ: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:18:24 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.88 X-Server-Date: 23 Jan 2002 21:17:16 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74209 Jason Fisher wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >>English pronunciation rules are stupid. > >Err, that was uncalled for. I agree, but those stupid rules have developed over hundreds of years and we're not going to change them now. :-) What is WITH people quoting without attribution? This plague seems far more prevalent this year than last. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://Tolkien.slimy.com (Steuard Jensen's site) Tolkien letters FAQ: http://users.telerama.com/~taliesen/tolkien/lettersfaq.html Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: "Bryan J. Maloney" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:40:40 -0500 Organization: Cornell University Lines: 23 Sender: bjm10@cornell.invalid (on potato.bti.cornell.edu) Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: potato.bti.cornell.edu X-Trace: news01.cit.cornell.edu 1011836439 13289 132.236.86.124 (24 Jan 2002 01:40:39 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news01.cit.cornell.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2002 01:40:39 GMT User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!newsstand.cit.cornell.edu!bjm10 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74032 In article , brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote: > Jason Fisher wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: > >Hey everyone! > > > >I've been curious to see if there's a "scholarly consensus" out there > >about > >the proper pronunciation of the terminal "ë" in elvish names and words. > >Clearly, according to JRRT, the syllable is pronounced. But do you guys > >think it ought to be pronounced like the "ay" in "say" or like the "ee" > >in > >"see". In other words, is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? > > I pronounce Finwë as "FINN-weh" or even "FINN-wuh". (Think of a > short e, or a schwa.) No schwas in Quenya or Sindarin. Tolkien was adamant about that--all vowels always got full value. -- "A 'Cape Cod Salsa' just isn't right." ###### From: arain02@FSUNI.rz.uni-passau.de (Karim Arain) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:29:03 GMT Organization: [posted via] Leibniz-Rechenzentrum, Muenchen (Germany) Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3c4fef98.13984358@nntpserver.rz.uni-passau.de> References: Reply-To: Karim.Arain@uni-passau.de NNTP-Posting-Host: news.rz.uni-passau.de X-Trace: wsc10.lrz-muenchen.de 1011871753 15729 132.231.51.57 (24 Jan 2002 11:29:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@lrz-muenchen.de NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jan 2002 11:29:13 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 132.231.41.226 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news2.euro.net!newsfeed.freenet.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!lrz.de!news.rz.uni-passau.de!132.231.41.226 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:74211 On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:05:51 GMT, "Jason Fisher" wrote: >> ... snip ... >> The long and short is that ë = e, both of which are to be pronounced as >> the vowel in "bed" (in the majority of English dialects). The diaresis >> over the "e" indicates no sound change, whatsoever. > >Sound reasoning. Although it's a little strange to add such a "weak" vowel >to the end of a word, a little strange for an American English speaker >anyway. Well, for a native German speaker it is perfectly natural ;-) BTW, I have found that almost all Sindarin or Quenya names seem to be pronounced the same as you would pronounce them in German. Ciao. Karim -- Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they're NOT out to get you. ###### From: atsarisborn@hotmail.com (A Tsar Is Born) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Pronunciation Question-Consensus? Date: 25 Jan 2002 23:42:51 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 9 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 66.19.9.54 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1012030971 16999 127.0.0.1 (26 Jan 2002 07:42:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jan 2002 07:42:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:75501 "Jason Fisher" wrote in message news: is Finwë "fin-way" or "fin-wee"? I've always pronounced just like that baseball stadium in Boston. The one where they always lose? Parmathule atsarisborn@hotmail.com