From: Bryan S. Slick Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 01:00:28 -0500 Message-ID: X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: 127.0.0.1 Lines: 15 X-Authenticated-User: wah730 X-Comments: This message was posted through Binaries.net X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Binaries.net does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Report: Please report abuse to Organization: Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!corp-goliath.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:69802 Has anyone ever heard this before? I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. (the bits that link things together, obviously) -- Bryan S. Slick, bryan at slick-family dot net Do not meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy, and good with ketchup. ______________________________________________________________________________ Posted Via Binaries.net = SPEED+RETENTION+COMPLETION = http://www.binaries.net ###### From: Rodrick Su Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: 5 Jan 2002 00:46:32 -0600 Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc. Lines: 19 Message-ID: References: User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.novia.net.MISMATCH!novia!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:69622 Bryan S. Slick wrote in news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher Tolkien. Most of the Silmarillion is written by JRRT himself, but it really needs be edited into proper order. -- [ Rodrick Su [ ] [ rsu@tigana.com [ I might be crazier than you think ] ###### From: "AC" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Organization: Randori News - http://www.randori.com Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 20:05:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeder.randori.com!news2.randori.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:69573 "Rodrick Su" wrote in message news:Xns918CE73CF460Frsutiganacom@63.209.170.222... > Bryan S. Slick wrote in > news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > > > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has > > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot > > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. > > > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > > > > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher Tolkien. > Most of the Silmarillion is written by JRRT himself, but it really needs be > edited into proper order. The only major writing was the Fall of Doriath, which, because the only account written by JRRT was from Lost Tales, had to be rewritten. Christopher later had very great regrets about that, though it was necessary to create the published work. I think that anybody that actually read HoME, especially the versions of the Silmarillion from the 1930s and 1950s would know that the published work is very largely JRRTs with only editorial changes. --- AaronC ###### Message-ID: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> From: geoffrey kimbrough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 23:20:19 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.249.90.218 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1010272819 216.249.90.218 (Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:20:19 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:20:19 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 15:20:15 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:69977 AC wrote: > "Rodrick Su" wrote in message > news:Xns918CE73CF460Frsutiganacom@63.209.170.222... > > Bryan S. Slick wrote in > > news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > > > > > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > > > > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has > > > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot > > > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. > > > > > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > > > > > > > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher Tolkien. And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien. It would have showed. Geoffrey "Zounds!" said Pooh. ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 01:48:17 +0200 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-t095.otenet.gr X-Trace: usenet.otenet.gr 1010274520 10323 62.103.252.95 (5 Jan 2002 23:48:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 23:48:40 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70012 "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting the second either. They were probably the most amateurish-looking fantasy books I've ever read. An occasional good scene or two (I enjoyed the Native-American bits) but other than that... pfft. Aris Katsaris ###### From: Rodrick Su Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: 5 Jan 2002 18:02:08 -0600 Organization: Tigana Restoration Inc. Lines: 26 Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> User-Agent: Xnews/4.11.22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.novia.net.MISMATCH!novia!novia!sequencer.newscene.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70066 "Aris Katsaris" wrote in news:a183cn$a2j$1@usenet.otenet.gr: > > "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message > news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... >> >> And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien > > Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother > getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting > the second either. > > They were probably the most amateurish-looking fantasy books > I've ever read. An occasional good scene or two (I enjoyed the > Native-American bits) but other than that... pfft. > You've missed out on an excellent writer. After the Tolkien-ish Fionavar Tapestry, his work improved tremendously with Tigana, and his story becomes more and more like historical novel with a sprinkle of fantasy elements. -- [ Rodrick Su [ ] [ rsu@tigana.com [ I might be crazier than you think ] ###### From: "AC" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Lines: 37 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Organization: Randori News - http://www.randori.com Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:37:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeeder.randori.com!news2.randori.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70047 "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > AC wrote: > > > "Rodrick Su" wrote in message > > news:Xns918CE73CF460Frsutiganacom@63.209.170.222... > > > Bryan S. Slick wrote in > > > news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > > > > > > > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > > > > > > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has > > > > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot > > > > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. > > > > > > > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > > > > > > > > > > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher Tolkien. > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien. It would have showed. Akkk... Troll attack!!! -- AaronC ###### From: "Alessiana" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Lines: 8 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 00:47:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 65.9.185.81 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.md.home.com 1010278025 65.9.185.81 (Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:47:05 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:47:05 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.md.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70095 > You've missed out on an excellent writer. After the Tolkien-ish Fionavar > Tapestry, his work improved tremendously with Tigana, and his story becomes > more and more like historical novel with a sprinkle of fantasy elements. I never read the Finovar Tapestry but Tigana is wonderful!] ###### Message-ID: <3C37D9F7.E4476E57@earthlink.net> From: geoffrey kimbrough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 25 Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 05:06:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.249.90.218 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1010293598 216.249.90.218 (Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:06:38 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:06:38 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 21:06:40 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!netnews.com!xfer02.netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:69972 Aris Katsaris wrote: > "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message > news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien > > Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother > getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting > the second either. Ok, you have a point: It was his later works, such as Tigana, that I had in mind, and he was much younger when he worked on the Sil, so maybe we could not have been able to tell the difference. But my opinion remains that Tolkien, though an unsurpassed historian and excellent storyteller, is rather uneven as a writer. Geoffrey ###### From: "jere7my tho?rpe" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Organization: Bongo's Madness Hats References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> <3C37D9F7.E4476E57@earthlink.net> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.1 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 26 Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 02:01:54 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.75.181.63 X-Trace: news.itd.umich.edu 1010300555 207.75.181.63 (Sun, 06 Jan 2002 02:02:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 02:02:35 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news.itd.umich.edu!jere7my Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70019 In article <3C37D9F7.E4476E57@earthlink.net>, geoffrey kimbrough wrote: *Aris Katsaris wrote: *> Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother *> getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting *> the second either. * *Ok, you have a point: It was his later works, such as Tigana, that I had *in mind Absolutely. I read _Tigana_ first, and was utterly absorbed. I then tried to read _The Fionavar Tapestry_ and stopped halfway through the first book. TFT is derivative and amateurish; _Tigana_ is a perfect fusion of gut-gripping story with a novel fantasy world. I wouldn't compare Kay and Tolkien -- they're very different -- but _Tigana_ is certainly one of the finest fantasy novels of the last twenty years, and his _Sarantine Mosaic_ shows a real maturation from that point. He's doing things that no other writer does. ----j7y -- *********************************** <*> *********************************** jere7my tho?rpe / 734-769-0913 "Oh, yeah. Old guys becoming pandas -- jere7my@mac.com _that's_ the future." Mike Nelson, MST3K ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:19:49 +0200 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 17 Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-o110.otenet.gr X-Trace: usenet.otenet.gr 1010312412 21278 212.205.252.110 (6 Jan 2002 10:20:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 10:20:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70018 "AC" wrote in message news:w%MZ7.83$9se.13697102@news2.randori.com... > "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message > news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien. It would have > > showed. > > Akkk... Troll attack!!! It's annoying when some people call anyone who speaks an unpopular opinion a troll... Aris Katsaris ###### From: "Roger Christie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:42:03 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 36 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70254 Oh please. "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > AC wrote: > > > "Rodrick Su" wrote in message > > news:Xns918CE73CF460Frsutiganacom@63.209.170.222... > > > Bryan S. Slick wrote in > > > news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > > > > > > > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > > > > > > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and has > > > > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a lot > > > > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it himself. > > > > > > > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > > > > > > > > > > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher Tolkien. > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien. It would have showed. > > Geoffrey > "Zounds!" said Pooh. > ###### From: "Roger Christie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:43:06 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70250 He got a lot better. Unfortunately, he has almost no creativity at all. "Aris Katsaris" wrote in message news:a183cn$a2j$1@usenet.otenet.gr... > > "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message > news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien > > Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother > getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting > the second either. > > They were probably the most amateurish-looking fantasy books > I've ever read. An occasional good scene or two (I enjoyed the > Native-American bits) but other than that... pfft. > > Aris Katsaris > > > ###### From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2462.0000 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:05:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.23.158 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1010354700 12.79.23.158 (Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:05:00 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:05:00 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!elk.ncren.net!arclight.uoregon.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70688 "Bryan S. Slick" wrote in message news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st... > Has anyone ever heard this before? > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and > has read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) > spent a lot of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most > of it himself. "In the difficult and doubtful task of preparing the text of the book I was greatly assisted by Guy Kay, who worked with me in 1974- 1975." Silm, Foreword "It is proper to mention that here as elsewhere almost every substantial change was discussed with Guy Kay, who worked with me in 1974-5 on the preparation of The Silmarillion. He indeed made many suggestions for the construction of the text (such as, in the tale of Beren and Luthien, the introduction of a passage from the Lay of Leithian), and proposed solutions to problems arising in the making of a composite narrative - in some cases of major significance to the structure, as will I hope be shown in a later book. The responsibility for the final published form rests of course wholly with me." LROW, Quenta Silmarillion - Chs. 12-15 "In this work Guy Kay took a major part, and the chapter that I finally wrote owes much to my discussions with him." WotJ, The Tale of Years - Note on Chapter 22 (Ruin of Doriath) ###### From: "Xie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:07:26 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3c38f517$0$28196$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.96.209 X-Trace: 1010365721 28196 198.142.96.209 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!210.49.20.93.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:71070 "Aris Katsaris" wrote in message news:a198cs$kou$1@usenet.otenet.gr... > It's annoying when some people call anyone who speaks an unpopular opinion > a troll... > > Aris Katsaris I'm with ya, Aris. I adore Kay. Xie ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 03:22:02 +0200 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> <3c38f517$0$28196$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-t187.otenet.gr X-Trace: usenet.otenet.gr 1010366545 10232 62.103.252.187 (7 Jan 2002 01:22:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 01:22:25 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2600.0000 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!news.telia-iberia.com!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70663 "Xie" wrote in message news:3c38f517$0$28196$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au... > > "Aris Katsaris" wrote in message > news:a198cs$kou$1@usenet.otenet.gr... > > It's annoying when some people call anyone who speaks an unpopular opinion > > a troll... > > I'm with ya, Aris. I adore Kay. Except that in my other post, I make it clear that I don't adore him... Aris Katsaris ###### Message-ID: <3C3925AD.F8F4A6E2@earthlink.net> From: geoffrey kimbrough X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 40 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 04:41:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.249.90.218 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 1010378485 216.249.90.218 (Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:41:25 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:41:25 PST Organization: EarthLink Inc. -- http://www.EarthLink.net X-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:41:28 PST (newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70532 Roger Christie wrote: > Oh please. How very incisive. Your keen insight and devastating logic has utterly convinced me. Thank you so much for adding to the discussion. > "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message > news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... > > > > > > AC wrote: > > > > > "Rodrick Su" wrote in message > > > news:Xns918CE73CF460Frsutiganacom@63.209.170.222... > > > > Bryan S. Slick wrote in > > > > news:MPG.16a06089472e657c9898da@reten.newsgroups.st: > > > > > > > > > Has anyone ever heard this before? > > > > > > > > > > I've been talking to a friend of mine who reads GGK quite a bit and > has > > > > > read in extracts from his library (at school) that he (GGK) spent a > lot > > > > > of time with CT working on Sil, and actually wrote most of it > himself. > > > > > > > > > > (the bits that link things together, obviously) > > > > > > > > > > > > > Not. Kay was an editor on Silmarillion along with Christopher > Tolkien. > > > > And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien. It would have > showed. > > > > Geoffrey > > "Zounds!" said Pooh. > > ###### From: Emilie Karr Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:45:20 -0500 Organization: Harvard University, Cambridge, Massachusetts Lines: 13 Message-ID: <3C39C290.A2EFB32@law.harvard.edu> References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: net-38395.law.harvard.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news.fas.harvard.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70571 Rodrick Su wrote: > > You've missed out on an excellent writer. After the Tolkien-ish Fionavar > Tapestry, his work improved tremendously with Tigana, and his story becomes > more and more like historical novel with a sprinkle of fantasy elements. Only thing I've read by Kay is Tigana, and I gotta ask...I liked his style and his world, but do his issues with women come up in his other books? 'Cause, uh, maybe Tolkien isn't one for writing chicks, but those who do appear are worthy - every female character in Tigana is there for the sex, one way or another... emilie ###### From: "Xie" Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> <3c38f517$0$28196$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:53:36 +1100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3c3a89a9$0$20946$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.142.96.151 X-Trace: 1010469290 20946 198.142.96.151 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!spool01.syd.optusnet.com.au!spool.optusnet.com.au!210.49.20.119.MISMATCH!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:71095 "Aris Katsaris" wrote in message news:a1at8h$9vo$1@usenet.otenet.gr... > > > It's annoying when some people call anyone who speaks an unpopular opinion > > > a troll... > > > > I'm with ya, Aris. I adore Kay. > > Except that in my other post, I make it clear that I don't adore him... True, but mine is also an unpopular opinion. Xie ###### From: Louis Epstein Newsgroups: alt.fan.tolkien,rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Guy Gavriel Kay: ghost writer for Christopher Tolkien? Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 05:58:28 -0000 Message-ID: Reply-To: le@put.com References: <3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net> User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-19990216 ("Styrofoam") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.17 (i686)) X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 32 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:70834 In alt.fan.tolkien Rodrick Su wrote: : "Aris Katsaris" wrote in : news:a183cn$a2j$1@usenet.otenet.gr: :> "geoffrey kimbrough" wrote in message :> news:3C3788D2.31DBDD2B@earthlink.net... :>> :>> And besides, Kay is a much better writer than Tolkien :> :> Pfft. I started reading the Fionavar Tapestry, and couldn't even bother :> getting the third book. In retrospect I shouldn't have bothered getting :> the second either. :> :> They were probably the most amateurish-looking fantasy books :> I've ever read. An occasional good scene or two (I enjoyed the :> Native-American bits) but other than that... pfft. :> : You've missed out on an excellent writer. After the Tolkien-ish Fionavar : Tapestry, his work improved tremendously with Tigana, and his story becomes : more and more like historical novel with a sprinkle of fantasy elements. : [ Rodrick Su [ : [ rsu@tigana.com [ With that address,I take it you have strong feelings here...but after seeing rave reviews for TIGANA I got it and was quite disappointed.The explicit sex scene fifty pages in was quite excessive...even the ending left me feeling used. Another Tolkien,he could never be.