From: James Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Message-ID: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 193 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.80.135.114 X-Trace: ozemail.com.au 1005547535 210.80.135.114 (Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:35 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:35 EST Organization: OzEmail Ltd, Australia Distribution: world Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!sjc1.nntp.concentric.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!newsfeed.ozemail.com.au!ozemail.com.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57866 The campaign for real Tolkein http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 How do you film a book that has been read by 50 million people, has 400 websites dedicated to it, and whose fans have not only taken on the names of the characters, but are capable of conversing in the book's invented languages? The answer, says Kathy Marks, is very carefully indeed 10 November 2001 The 12-page email arrived in my mailbox at 5am New York time, a lucid, passionately argued polemic against the forthcoming trilogy based on JRR Tolkien's cult novel, Lord of the Rings. It was written by a Manhattan law student who goes by the Elvish nickname of Kelannar, and the main target of his vitriol was Peter Jackson, the New Zealand director currently putting the final touches to the first film in an editing suite in Wellington. "Peter Jackson is an arrogant director who is raping the text," he thundered. In the arcane world of internet chatrooms, Kelannar is notorious. Banned from one leading Tolkien website after his inflammatory remarks caused online riots, he is now stirring up trouble at another. A devout Catholic, he prays that Jackson will see the error of his ways. He insists that his real name not be published; he fears he would be lynched. Kelannar may be an extreme case, but countless hardcore fans share his obsession. Fifty million people around the globe have read Lord of the Rings, the 20th century's most popular book, and many have re-read it dozens of times. They have dissected it chapter by chapter, recited it at costumed gatherings and waited half a century to see it transformed to the screen. Now, with the first film to be released just before Christmas, they are swooning with excitement and trepidation in equal degrees. Will the films faithfully depict Middle Earth, Tolkien's fantastical universe peopled by elves, hobbits, orcs and dwarves? Will they preserve his inimitable dialogue, capture the essence of his epic masterpiece, convey his towering moral concerns? Will they reflect the Oxford philologist's unique vision, or will they be a Hollywood travesty that will warp the perceptions of movie-goers who have never opened the book? These are the questions that have consumed Tolkien devotees since Jackson and New Line Cinema, the Los Angeles-based production company, announced the ambitious £180m project three years ago. Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya – one of Tolkien's fictional languages – and discuss such burning issues as whether elves have pointy ears. The sites became a clearing-house for rumours about the films. Fans argued about the impact of changes to the plot and salivated over photographs snatched by intrepid New Zealanders who snooped around the film sets during Jackson's 15-month shoot in his own backyard. Was it true that Sean Connery would play the ancient wizard Gandalf, they demanded as they swarmed around the myriad messageboards. (The answer was no. The role went to Ian McKellen.) Had Sam, companion of the hobbit Frodo, been turned into a girl? (Again, no.) Should the Balrog, a demonic monster described only sketchily by Tolkien, be given wings? But it was not only their unslakeable thirst for information that kept Tolkienheads up all night, debating topics such as "Decent portrayal of elves: perfectly impossible?" and "The wimpification of Frodo: true or false?" They suspected that New Line executives, perhaps even Jackson himself, were monitoring the online frenzy – and they hoped to influence the final outcome of the films. Studio insiders have confirmed that Jackson's team did indeed surf the sites, which seems astonishing and yet makes perfect sense. For it was there that were found the legions of readers who are destined to become the trilogy's core audience and have the capacity to make Lord of the Rings a bigger-grossing blockbuster even than Star Wars. New Line has not just paid lip-service to these internet fans; in an unprecedented interaction between Hollywood and movie-goers, it has shamelessly courted them. The first trailer was released exclusively online, where it received 1.7 million hits in the first 24 hours – breaking the 1.1 million record set by The Phantom Menace – and was breathlessly analysed frame by frame. Several webmasters were invited to a preview of footage at Cannes last year, while the names of founder members of a new fan club are to be included in the films' DVD credits. Jackson, meanwhile, has taken part in three lengthy question-and-answer sessions online. The official Lord of the Rings website, which was launched – absurdly early – in May 1999, drips a steady diet of pictures, interviews and information to its favourite 40 fan-generated sites. The official site offers such insights as the methods used by make-up artists to glue hair to hobbits' prosthetic feet. Gordon Pattison, New Line's senior vice-president of worldwide interactive marketing, says that while the main motive for fostering a close association with fans was to whet their appetite for the films, there were also less mercenary reasons. "In the universe of Tolkien, we consider ourselves part of a larger community," he says. "The fans are our brothers." While cynics may scoff at such assertions, it does seem that the trilogy is not merely a project made in box-office heaven – which it surely is – but also one in which the participants have a personal stake. Jackson calls himself Tolkien's biggest admirer, while numerous members of the film crew and production team claim to be ardent disciples too. Whether the website debates affected what audiences will see on the big screen can only be guessed at, but many Tolkien junkies are convinced of it. Duane Guingrich, a fan in Indiana, believes that the character of Arwen – an Elvish maiden played by Liv Tyler and feared to have metamorphosed into a warrior princess in the films – was toned down after a storm of protest. "They won't pay much attention to an individual, but when there's a large backlash, as there was against the Arwen changes, they can't help but take notice," says Guingrich. Kelannar instigated a petition on the Tolkien Online website that gathered 16,000 signatures and implored Jackson not to violate the integrity of Tolkien's work. He says: "I have satisfaction in knowing that two years of righteous indignation over his changes may have produced some results. Instead of a train wreck, we may only get a highway pile-up." (He is, nevertheless, expecting "a watered-down, politically correct, girl-power garbage version of the story".) There is a widely-held assumption that it was pressure by fans that led Jackson to declare last year that, as filming progressed, "we've gone further and further back to the books ... a lot of our so-called clever ideas at the beginning we've long since abandoned." But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. Some fans remain deeply unhappy about liberties being taken with Tolkien's work; others are more relaxed and the internet bristles with heated arguments between the "purist" and "revisionist" camps. "Hobbits don't have high cheekbones, for goodness sake," says one exasperated purist, referring to Elijah Wood, the young actor who plays Frodo. Michael Regina, a Canadian computer networking technician who runs a revisionist site, The One Ring, is certain that the film will live up to expectations. "The last trailer I saw, my eyes watered at the end of it," says Regina, 23. "My contribution has been minuscule, but I felt so happy and so brilliantly proud of those two-and-a-half minutes." Regina's co-editor is Erica Challis, a 37-year-old New Zealander who says that Tolkien aficionados have been "making the film in their own minds for years, imagining the perfect actors and locations". She is diplomatic about the hardline purists. "This is delicate territory ... this is where I get my house firebombed. But in a minority, the book inspires the fundamentalist belief that this is the best possible book and it can't be altered. They approach it in the way that religious sects approach their texts." New Line's willingness to engage with online fans is in marked contrast to the paranoid secrecy that surrounded the filming itself. Challis, a musician with the Auckland Philharmonia, spent weeks tracking the production as it moved around New Zealand. She scaled mountain peaks in an attempt to reach remote South Island locations and became a cause célèbre after being served with a trespass notice. The studio later relented and invited her to the Hobbiton set, south of Auckland, where she met Jackson and members of the cast. For Tolkien's family, who have declined any involvement in the trilogy, the idiosyncratic behaviour of fans is nothing new. Before he died, the author was occasionally woken at 2am by Americans demanding to know obscure details of Middle Earth geography. His descendants fear that they will be forced to go into hiding when the films are released. To Jackson has fallen the impossible task of trying to please everyone, including those early fans of the book who wore "Gandalf for president" badges on university campuses in the 1960s. He has repeatedly pointed out that the films can only ever embody one interpretation of Lord of the Rings. "Everyone just relax and stay calm!" he pleaded during one Q and A session. One fan asked him: "You realise, don't you, that whatever you do, some percentage of rabid Tolkien fans are always going to attack you for butchering their Bible?" Jackson replied: "I'm in no doubt about that." James ###### From: "Douglas Eckhart" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:43:56 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9sog2p$5g4$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-133-147.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57836 >"This is delicate territory ... >this is where I get my house firebombed. But in a minority, the book >inspires the fundamentalist belief that this is the best possible book >and it can't be altered. They approach it in the way that religious >sects approach their texts." This is good!!! Douglas ###### From: Michael Kohrs Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 13 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:09:22 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.14.191.46 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1005577762 63.14.191.46 (Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:09:22 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:09:22 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-xfer.siscom.net!newspump.sol.net!wn1feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57781 On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800, James wrote: >But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an >indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has >documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence >where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's >hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in advance! Mnkohrz ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:49:15 -0500 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3BEFEF75.4640EF73@erols.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Reply-To: FotW@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYlqbKri6Pw/X0S0e84yVU0dbo5vbiWu/Mh1YufT5JxDXDx1cqJH704 X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2001 16:15:37 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57770 James wrote: > But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an > indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has > documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence > where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's > hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. I do not recall anywhere in LotR or Letters in which Tolkien explicitly says that Gandalf *doesn't* bump his head! -- -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:50:19 -0500 Lines: 17 Message-ID: <3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Reply-To: FotW@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVb2Sx0fkcvMhzQcjs3r0BvvyzEX8xB9pDR0Lw2Lr4bwgWLNYQN3AXVO X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Nov 2001 16:15:39 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57779 Michael Kohrs wrote: > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in > advance! I hope that when I see the film, no geeky purist is present with the list in hand and a little flashlight. -- -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. ###### From: "Norseman" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Lines: 20 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4807.1700 Message-ID: <7hTH7.17349$Fr3.274178@news1.oke.nextra.no> NNTP-Posting-Host: 146.172.15.137 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@nextra.no NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:02:59 MET Organization: Nextra Public Access X-Trace: readme.online.no 1005584579 146.172.15.137 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:03:04 +0100 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!kanja.arnes.si!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!newsfeed1.ulv.nextra.no!nextra.com!news1.oke.nextra.no.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57820 "Michael Kohrs" skrev i melding news:ndpvutsq9clnkslmlj6vok1mmqcdn1c1u3@4ax.com... > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800, James wrote: > > >But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an > >indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has > >documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence > >where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's > >hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in > advance! You still haven't read it? It's been a hot topic in the movie threads for months: http://www2.tolkienonline.com/movies/changes_index.cfm Remember not all rumoured changes are very reliable, see their rating. ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Matt Neumann Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien X-Nntp-Posting-Host: hou-xpc02.se.nos.boeing.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3BF003E3.D4EC0578@hotmail.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: none X-Accept-Language: en References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:16:19 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) Lines: 20 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!news2.euro.net!uunet!ash.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57786 Flame of the West wrote: > > Michael Kohrs wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like > > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in > > advance! > > I hope that when I see the film, no geeky purist is present with the > list in hand and a little flashlight. Don't worry, Flame. The geeky purist will be out front of the theatre, handing out poorly-typed and smeared Xerox copies of the 74 page list of things wrong with the film that he refuses to ever watch. Pick up an extra copy for me, will you? -- -Matt (mattneu@hotmail.com) Angband in action! Constant escalation to new depths to find angrier, meaner letters and more punctuation! ###### From: "Douglas Eckhart" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 18:10:30 -0000 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 14 Message-ID: <9sp377$bov$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <9sog2p$5g4$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-113-30.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-lei1.dfn.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57823 >For Tolkien's family, who have declined any involvement in the >trilogy, the idiosyncratic behaviour of fans is nothing new. Before he >died, the author was occasionally woken at 2am by Americans demanding >to know obscure details of Middle Earth geography. His descendants >fear that they will be forced to go into hiding when the films are >released. This was class! Had me in stiches!!!! Douglas ###### From: Bryan S. Slick Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:23:19 -0700 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 NNTP-Posting-Host: news4 Lines: 27 X-Authenticated-User: wah730 X-Comments: This message was posted through Newsfeeds.com X-Comments2: IMPORTANT: Newsfeeds.com does not condone, nor support, spam or any illegal or copyrighted postings. X-Comments3: IMPORTANT: Under NO circumstances will postings containing illegal or copyrighted material through this service be tolerated!! X-Report: Please report illegal or inappropriate use to You may also use our online abuse reporting from: http://www.newsfeeds.com/abuseform.htm X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers, INCLUDING the body (DO NOT SEND ATTACHMENTS) Organization: Newsfeeds.com http://www.newsfeeds.com 73,000+ UNCENSORED Newsgroups. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!corp-news.newsgroups.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58090 [Michael Kohrs] [Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:09:22 GMT] :On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800, James wrote: : :>But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an :>indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has :>documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence :>where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's :>hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. : :Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like :it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in :advance! : :Mnkohrz "True" fan? What gives you the right to say that anyone who disagrees with you is not a true fan? -- Bryan S. Slick, sbryan7 at qwest dot net "To those who preserve it, freedom has a flavor the protected will never know." ###### From: "Eric San Juan" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com> Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Lines: 28 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:28:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.23.28.75 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.nj.home.com 1005611316 24.23.28.75 (Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:28:36 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:28:36 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.nj.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58063 "Flame of the West" wrote in message news:3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com... > > Michael Kohrs wrote: > > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like > > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in > > advance! > > I hope that when I see the film, no geeky purist is present with the > list in hand and a little flashlight. One thing I greatly dread will be the dozens and dozens of people who will be offering running commentary during the film, presumably to themselves or their neighbors, but "unconsciously" loud enough for all within four rows to hear so the people nearby will no what Damn Spiffy Smart Tolkien Fans they are. It is inevitable. I have resigned myself to it. And I dread it. As good as my luck is, I will end up in the theater on the same day Michael Kohrs accidentally enters thinking he is going to see Lethal Weapon 5, only to find The Fellowship of the Ring (aka How Peter Jackson Murdered Jesus And My First Born Son to a select few) on the screen. Then he will stay and lecture myself and all others who will listen about our sin in seeing the film. ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 11:51:54 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEF75.4640EF73@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005616353 24330 192.168.30.113 (13 Nov 2001 01:52:33 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2001 01:52:33 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!telocity-west!TELOCITY!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58003 In article <3BEFEF75.4640EF73@erols.com>, Flame of the West says... > > James wrote: > > > But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an > > indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has > > documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence > > where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's > > hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. > > I do not recall anywhere in LotR or Letters in which Tolkien explicitly > says that Gandalf *doesn't* bump his head! I think this is best summed up by Mark Reichart. "If Tolkien had meant for us to have a sense of humor, he would have told us so." -- Donald Shepherd "Nothing needs reforming so much as other people's habits." - Mark Twain ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:25:39 -0500 Lines: 20 Message-ID: <3BF084A1.26B539C7@erols.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com> <3BF003E3.D4EC0578@hotmail.com> Reply-To: FotW@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbBBFBZFIZJ9lGolWK66H2rJ+6dBSsmpF7+W5nGq23Mh2VpkSK2XZuK X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2001 02:46:04 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news.netcologne.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!blackbush.xlink.net!blackbush.de.kpnqwest.net!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57874 Matt Neumann wrote: > Don't worry, Flame. The geeky purist will be out front of the theatre, > handing out poorly-typed and smeared Xerox copies of the 74 page list of > things wrong with the film that he refuses to ever watch. Pick up an > extra copy for me, will you? Sorry, my hands will be full, with a extra huge box of popcorn in one hand, and a giant diet coke in the other, so I won't be able to grab one. -- -- FotW And those are Strawberry Twizzlers in my pocket, it's *not* that I'm just happy to see Liv Tyler. ###### From: m050390@usna.edu (Francis Barry) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: 12 Nov 2001 18:27:11 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEF75.4640EF73@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 131.122.51.137 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1005618431 22751 127.0.0.1 (13 Nov 2001 02:27:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2001 02:27:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58101 While I personally don't have a problem with this, I think the answer is in Tolkien's illustrations of Bag End. They depict the entrance hall, at least, as rather large: easily able to fit an average human without stooping. However, I agree with the general principle that just because the text doesn't come with staging notes then the director isn't free to add them. After all, I thought that the purpose of making a movie into a book was to see _another_ person's interpretation of the original work. If I were only interested in what I thought it looked like I'd just reread the book again. Flame of the West wrote in message news:<3BEFEF75.4640EF73@erols.com>... > James wrote: > > > But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an > > indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has > > documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence > > where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's > > hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. > > I do not recall anywhere in LotR or Letters in which Tolkien explicitly > says that Gandalf *doesn't* bump his head! ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:27:15 -0500 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <3BF08501.DD5C1D22@erols.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Reply-To: FotW@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbkSUBiiM538Qsjwwb4eGRWV4TTfTaibFfFGO3z3ZcPRSqOxDa1wrQW X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2001 02:46:06 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!logbridge.uoregon.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57876 "Bryan S. Slick" wrote: > "True" fan? > > What gives you the right to say that anyone who disagrees with you is not > a true fan? Take a chill pill, dude. I think that was boilerplate, not an attempt to trash anyone. -- -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. ###### From: Michael Kohrs Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BEFEFB5.8D98D275@erols.com> <3BF003E3.D4EC0578@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.553 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:01:02 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.16.83.13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 1005620462 63.16.83.13 (Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:01:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 03:01:02 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58164 On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:16:19 GMT, Matt Neumann wrote: >Flame of the West wrote: >> >> Michael Kohrs wrote: >> >> > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like >> > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in >> > advance! >> >> I hope that when I see the film, no geeky purist is present with the >> list in hand and a little flashlight. > >Don't worry, Flame. The geeky purist will be out front of the theatre, >handing out poorly-typed and smeared Xerox copies of the 74 page list of >things wrong with the film that he refuses to ever watch. Pick up an >extra copy for me, will you? Poorly typed and smeared Xerox copies? I'll have you know that I have a spell-checker AND a color copier. Now how many copies should I reserve for you and your friends? Mnkohrz ###### From: the_real_orius@hotmail.com (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: 13 Nov 2001 10:24:03 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 14 Message-ID: <3ac4908.0111131024.c42db73@posting.google.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 4.54.55.53 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1005675843 4444 127.0.0.1 (13 Nov 2001 18:24:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 13 Nov 2001 18:24:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!deine.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58049 Michael Kohrs wrote in message news:... > On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800, James wrote: > > >But there will still be a perceptible gap between text and screen; an > >indefatigable Tolkienite who calls himself Ancalgon the Black has > >documented a 74-page list of minute changes including a film sequence > >where Gandalf bumps his head on a door frame as he enters Bilbo's > >hobbit hole, Bag End. The incident is absent from the book. > > Does anyone know where I can get a copy of this list? It sounds like > it should be required reading for every true Tolkien fan. Thanx in > advance! Why am I not surprised? ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:53:38 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <3BF08501.DD5C1D22@erols.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 23 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!telocity-west!TELOCITY!sn-xit-03!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58154 On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 21:27:15 -0500, Flame of the West wrote: > >"Bryan S. Slick" wrote: > >> "True" fan? >> >> What gives you the right to say that anyone who disagrees with you is not >> a true fan? > >Take a chill pill, dude. I think that was boilerplate, not an attempt >to trash anyone. C'mon, Fame! Please Do Not Feed The Troll! the softrat "He who rubs owls" mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- If the force in Yoda is so strong, construct a sentence with words in the proper order then why can't he? ###### From: s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au (Stephen Souter) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:53:49 +1100 Organization: University of Sydney Lines: 18 Distribution: world Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac98a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au X-Trace: spacebar.ucc.usyd.edu.au 1005720829 12664 129.78.104.226 (14 Nov 2001 06:53:49 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.usyd.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 2001 06:53:49 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.usyd.edu.au!mac98a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57888 In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James wrote: > The campaign for real Tolkein > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > whether elves have pointy ears. Um, "Ringers"? -- Stephen Souter s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au http://www.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/ ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 17:20:38 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 25 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005722475 9069 192.168.30.113 (14 Nov 2001 07:21:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 2001 07:21:15 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!fr.clara.net!heighliner.fr.clara.net!europa.netcrusader.net!usenetserver.com!209.150.97.11!feeder.qis.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57998 In article , Stephen Souter says... > In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James wrote: > > > The campaign for real Tolkein > > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > > > > > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > > whether elves have pointy ears. > > Um, "Ringers"? Ugh. Only thing is that it's better than "Ring-Ins". -- Donald Shepherd "Nothing needs reforming so much as other people's habits." - Mark Twain ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 04:11:23 -0500 Lines: 19 Message-ID: <3BF2353B.B9430DA6@erols.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Reply-To: FotW@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZZJadeSty9MNVAM46DXcwGKKW/LyubxlC9l+a+YcdMFazUaEqBfojg X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 2001 09:17:11 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57878 Stephen Souter wrote: > > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > > whether elves have pointy ears. > > Um, "Ringers"? It's a Quenya-speaker thing. -- -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-earth. ###### From: gary4books@yahoo.com (Gary E. Masters) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: 14 Nov 2001 04:22:51 -0800 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 21 Message-ID: <38aeacaa.0111140422.445ae325@posting.google.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.77.181.8 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 1005740571 19565 127.0.0.1 (14 Nov 2001 12:22:51 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-abuse@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 2001 12:22:51 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!nntp.abs.net!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58105 James wrote in message news:<8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>... > The campaign for real Tolkein > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > > How do you film a book that has been read by 50 million people, has > 400 websites dedicated to it, and whose fans have not only taken on > the names of the characters, but are capable of conversing in the > book's invented languages? The answer, says Kathy Marks, is very > carefully indeed > I will miss the cuts. I will hope for more on the DVD. And I will enjoy the film. As Jackson said - this may not be Lord of the Rings, but it will be good. Just seeing Gandalf and the mountains has been enough for me. I will miss Bombadil. I wanted to see an elf Lord as he really was at the ford. The change dissapoints me - but the line "Claim him" is very effective. I will put it this way; I would love to drive an Infinity Q car to work, but my ten year old Mazda is good enough and I like it too. Certainly it will be much better than nothing. ###### From: urban@panix.com (Michael Urban) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: 14 Nov 2001 10:56:50 -0500 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9su482$en8$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 1005753410 27183 166.84.1.3 (14 Nov 2001 15:56:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 14 Nov 2001 15:56:50 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-hub.siol.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!chcgil2-snh1.gtei.net!cambridge1-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!bloom-beacon.mit.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:57926 In article , Stephen Souter wrote: >In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James wrote: > >> Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 >> websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of >> Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as >> whether elves have pointy ears. > >Um, "Ringers"? > The way the press usually does these things, perhaps one should be grateful that they didn't call 'em "Ringies". Of course, these Ringer people are obviously loony eccentrics, unlike normal people who discuss burning issues such as baseball players' batting averages and whether Tom Cruise will remarry. ###### From: Ronald O. Christian Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Message-ID: <3575vt8utueu972sduffq8vkq143o5cmht@4ax.com> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 16:37:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.16.210.216 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.sttln1.wa.home.com 1005755856 24.16.210.216 (Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:36 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:36 PST Organization: Excite@Home - The Leader in Broadband http://home.com/faster Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!deine.net!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.sttln1.wa.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58120 On Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:45:49 -0800, James wrote: >The 12-page email arrived in my mailbox at 5am New York time, a lucid, >passionately argued polemic against the forthcoming trilogy based on >JRR Tolkien's cult novel, Lord of the Rings. It was written by a >Manhattan law student who goes by the Elvish nickname of Kelannar, and >the main target of his vitriol was Peter Jackson, the New Zealand >director currently putting the final touches to the first film in an >editing suite in Wellington. Proving true the adage that some people just have too much time on their hands. > "Peter Jackson is an arrogant director >who is raping the text," he thundered. Squeaked. Ron www.europa.com/~ronc "If UN peacekeeping had been involved during the US civil war, it'd still be going on today." ###### From: WindSparrow@webtv.net Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 19:03:47 -0700 (MST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 14 Message-ID: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRfZ6F5hASUQojY6ysHoLbdmHXyZAIUYp0y1R+nymTXRPS25za8y60SxqI= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58187 >Um, "Ringers"? >-- >Stephen Souter >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au Better than "Ringies", don't you think? Windy who prefers "ringbat" ###### From: "Apteryx" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Lines: 33 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:47:22 +1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 210.54.66.244 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 1005795914 210.54.66.244 (Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:45:14 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:45:14 NZDT Organization: Xtra Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!excite.it!news-out.nuthinbutnews.com!propagator2-austin!propagator!feed2.newsfeeds.com!newsfeeds.com!cyclone-sf.pbi.net!209.81.14.120!feeder.via.net!enews.sgi.com!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58214 Donald Shepherd wrote in message news:MPG.165cb842b128a15989be9@news.uq.edu.au... > In article , > Stephen Souter says... > > In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James wrote: > > > > > The campaign for real Tolkein > > > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > > > > > > > > > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > > > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > > > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > > > whether elves have pointy ears. > > > > Um, "Ringers"? > > Ugh. > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click Wide is his blow and his hands move quick The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" -- Apteryx ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:59:22 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 36 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005796801 20284 192.168.30.113 (15 Nov 2001 04:00:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 2001 04:00:01 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58238 In article , Apteryx says... > Donald Shepherd wrote in message > news:MPG.165cb842b128a15989be9@news.uq.edu.au... > > In article , > > Stephen Souter says... > > > In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James > wrote: > > > > > > > The campaign for real Tolkein > > > > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > > > > > > > > > > > > > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > > > > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > > > > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > > > > whether elves have pointy ears. > > > > > > Um, "Ringers"? > > > > Ugh. > > > > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click > Wide is his blow and his hands move quick > The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow > And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" Great, we're being lumped in with champion shearers. -- Donald Shepherd "Get your facts first, then distort them as you please." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 13:59:43 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005796822 20284 192.168.30.113 (15 Nov 2001 04:00:22 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 2001 04:00:22 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58248 In article <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net>, WindSparrow@webtv.net says... > >Um, "Ringers"? > > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > > Windy > who prefers "ringbat" "Ring-tailed possum" is always a possibility. -- Donald Shepherd "Get your facts first, then distort them as you please." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: "Apteryx" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <2CJI7.280$i46.20187@news.xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:53:47 +1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.96.99.252 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@xtra.co.nz X-Trace: news.xtra.co.nz 1005807102 203.96.99.252 (Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:51:42 NZDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:51:42 NZDT Organization: Xtra Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!newsfeed01.tsnz.net!news.xtra.co.nz!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58210 Donald Shepherd wrote in message news:MPG.165dda906154e471989c00@news.uq.edu.au... > In article , Apteryx > says... > > > > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click > > Wide is his blow and his hands move quick > > The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow > > And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" > > Great, we're being lumped in with champion shearers. > -- So long as they're champions, we're a long way ahead of similar words used to describe fans of lesser works. Certainly when I first saw TORN describing its spies .... er, sources as "ringers" I just thought they meant they were good at what they did :) -- Apteryx ###### From: s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au (Stephen Souter) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:19:12 +1100 Organization: University of Sydney Lines: 40 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac98a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au X-Trace: spacebar.ucc.usyd.edu.au 1005812351 26895 129.78.104.226 (15 Nov 2001 08:19:11 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.usyd.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 2001 08:19:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.usyd.edu.au!mac98a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58180 In article , Donald Shepherd wrote: > In article , Apteryx > says... > > Donald Shepherd wrote in message > > news:MPG.165cb842b128a15989be9@news.uq.edu.au... > > > In article , > > > Stephen Souter says... > > > > In article <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com>, James > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > The campaign for real Tolkein > > > > > http://enjoyment.independent.co.uk/books/news/story.jsp?story=104142 > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Readers flocked online to articulate their angst, discovering 400 > > > > > websites where "Ringers" congregated to converse in Quenya - one of > > > > > Tolkien's fictional languages - and discuss such burning issues as > > > > > whether elves have pointy ears. > > > > > > > > Um, "Ringers"? > > > > > > Ugh. > > > > > > > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click > > Wide is his blow and his hands move quick > > The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow > > And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" > > Great, we're being lumped in with champion shearers. It could have been worse. They might have lumped us in with the sheep! :) -- Stephen Souter s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au http://www.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/ ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:33:07 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005813225 29832 192.168.30.113 (15 Nov 2001 08:33:45 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 2001 08:33:45 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58253 In article , Stephen Souter says... > In article , Donald Shepherd > wrote: > > > In article , Apteryx > > says... > > > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click > > > Wide is his blow and his hands move quick > > > The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow > > > And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" > > > > Great, we're being lumped in with champion shearers. > > It could have been worse. They might have lumped us in with the sheep! :) It was shot in NZ. Plenty of their extras would not have minded at all. -- Donald Shepherd "Get your facts first, then distort them as you please." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 09:26:51 -0500 Lines: 21 Message-ID: <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com> References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Reply-To: Ermanna@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVbYiCofHdBgLUrslAYFutpgcbkfdbma3hbGzQlNLAV6946V7SD+NEwY X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 15 Nov 2001 21:29:13 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58331 WindSparrow@webtv.net made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > >Um, "Ringers"? > >-- > >Stephen Souter > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > Windy > who prefers "ringbat" Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight, Lady of Rivendell, Headmistress of the AFT/RABT Charm School, Hug-Therapist Elbereth Gilthoniel! ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:29:25 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005874206 11346 192.168.30.113 (16 Nov 2001 01:30:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 01:30:06 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58436 In article <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com>, Ermanna says... > > > WindSparrow@webtv.net made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > > >Um, "Ringers"? > > >-- > > >Stephen Souter > > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > > > > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > > I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". I like to call them "us". -- Donald Shepherd "Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Parliament. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### Lines: 12 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mrhobbit9@aol.com (MrHobbit9) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 16 Nov 2001 01:42:13 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Message-ID: <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!usenetserver.com!208.184.7.66!newsfeed1.cidera.com!Cidera!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58370 >> > >Um, "Ringers"? >> > >-- >> > >Stephen Souter >> > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au >> > >> > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? >> >> I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > >I like to call them "us". I like to call them "... I don't have anything to call them. ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:51:29 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 23 Message-ID: References: <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005875530 11346 192.168.30.113 (16 Nov 2001 01:52:10 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 01:52:10 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!out.nntp.be!propagator-SanJose!in.nntp.be!telocity-west!TELOCITY!enews.sgi.com!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58416 In article <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com>, MrHobbit9 says... > >> > >Um, "Ringers"? > >> > >-- > >> > >Stephen Souter > >> > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > >> > > >> > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > >> > >> I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > > > >I like to call them "us". > > I like to call them "... I don't have anything to call them. Try null. It works for Java. -- Donald Shepherd "Reader, suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Parliament. But I repeat myself." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:18:37 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58516 On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:29:25 +1000, Donald Shepherd wrote: > >I like to call them "us". You mean that 'we' is 'them'? the softrat "He who rubs owls" mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "I only live about ten percent in this reality." "So where's your summer cottage?" ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 19:32:20 -0000 Lines: 24 Message-ID: <9t3pnb$u31$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-88.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1005939243 30817 62.137.249.88 (16 Nov 2001 19:34:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 19:34:03 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58401 "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message news:MPG.165f0e1d26572b16989c28@news.uq.edu.au... > In article <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com>, MrHobbit9 > says... > > >> > >Um, "Ringers"? > > >> > >-- > > >> > >Stephen Souter > > >> > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > > >> > > > >> > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > > >> > > >> I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > > > > > >I like to call them "us". > > > > I like to call them "... I don't have anything to call them. > > Try null. It works for Java. When Java works, that is... Daithí ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:12:10 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 16 Message-ID: References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005952379 24200 192.168.30.113 (16 Nov 2001 23:12:59 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 23:12:59 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58634 In article , the softrat says... > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:29:25 +1000, Donald Shepherd > wrote: > > > >I like to call them "us". > > You mean that 'we' is 'them'? Most of the time. -- Donald Shepherd "Be careful of reading health books. You might die of a misprint.." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: Donald Shepherd Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 09:12:10 +1000 Organization: Chicken Killer Anonymous Lines: 30 Message-ID: References: <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com> <9t3pnb$u31$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: res-30-113.emmanuel.uq.edu.au X-Trace: bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au 1005952380 24200 192.168.30.113 (16 Nov 2001 23:13:00 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@uq.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 23:13:00 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.50 X-Virus: I am a header virus. Please add me to your headers. Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!bunyip.cc.uq.edu.au!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58644 In article <9t3pnb$u31$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Flood says... > "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message > news:MPG.165f0e1d26572b16989c28@news.uq.edu.au... > > In article <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com>, MrHobbit9 > > says... > > > >> > >Um, "Ringers"? > > > >> > >-- > > > >> > >Stephen Souter > > > >> > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > > > >> > > > > >> > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > > > >> > > > >> I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > > > > > > > >I like to call them "us". > > > > > > I like to call them "... I don't have anything to call them. > > > > Try null. It works for Java. > > When Java works, that is... Java all works. Just slowly. -- Donald Shepherd "Be careful of reading health books. You might die of a misprint.." - Mark Twain (sourced from Usenet) ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 23:48:36 -0000 Lines: 32 Message-ID: <9t48fg$4rl$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com> <9t3pnb$u31$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-88.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1005954352 4981 62.137.249.88 (16 Nov 2001 23:45:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 16 Nov 2001 23:45:52 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeeder.inwind.it!inwind.it!itgate.net!news.it.colt.net!colt.net!shale.ftech.net!news.ftech.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58618 "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message news:MPG.166039e08cc355b5989c43@news.uq.edu.au... > In article <9t3pnb$u31$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, David Flood > says... > > "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message > > news:MPG.165f0e1d26572b16989c28@news.uq.edu.au... > > > In article <20011115204213.08802.00000124@mb-cq.aol.com>, MrHobbit9 > > > says... > > > > >> > >Um, "Ringers"? > > > > >> > >-- > > > > >> > >Stephen Souter > > > > >> > >s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au > > > > >> > > > > > >> > Better than "Ringies", don't you think? > > > > >> > > > > >> I like to call Tolkien fans "Tolkienites". > > > > > > > > > >I like to call them "us". > > > > > > > > I like to call them "... I don't have anything to call them. > > > > > > Try null. It works for Java. > > > > When Java works, that is... > > Java all works. Just slowly. Very verrrryyy slowwwlllyyy... D. ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 00:20:03 -0000 Lines: 18 Message-ID: <9t4aag$fii$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <14709-3BF32283-79@storefull-267.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <3BF3D0A7.F63E60FF@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-88.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1005956240 15954 62.137.249.88 (17 Nov 2001 00:17:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Nov 2001 00:17:20 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58631 "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message news:MPG.166039c9e0963714989c42@news.uq.edu.au... > In article , the softrat > says... > > On Fri, 16 Nov 2001 11:29:25 +1000, Donald Shepherd > > wrote: > > > > > >I like to call them "us". > > > > You mean that 'we' is 'them'? > > Most of the time. It's a *job-sharing* Ruling Clique. D. ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 01:24:47 -0000 Lines: 29 Message-ID: <9t4e3r$hif$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-88.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk 1005960123 17999 62.137.249.88 (17 Nov 2001 01:22:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 17 Nov 2001 01:22:03 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58626 "Donald Shepherd" wrote in message news:MPG.165e1abe1ed9fb71989c06@news.uq.edu.au... > In article , > Stephen Souter says... > > In article , Donald Shepherd > > wrote: > > > > > In article , Apteryx > > > says... > > > > Click go the shears boys, click, click, click > > > > Wide is his blow and his hands move quick > > > > The RINGER looks around and is beaten by a blow > > > > And curses the old snagger with the blue-bellied "joe" > > > > > > Great, we're being lumped in with champion shearers. > > > > It could have been worse. They might have lumped us in with the sheep! :) > > It was shot in NZ. Plenty of their extras would not have minded at all. I know we were glad of them when we were barracked on the Curragh for Braveheart ;) (and yes, thank you; it has cleared up completely since) D. ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 20:40:36 -0000 Lines: 20 Message-ID: <9t966v$dc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <9t4e3r$hif$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t6f8b$lhas$1@ID-81911.news.dfncis.de> <9t6p4b$out$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t709k$aso$1@news.wanadoo.es> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-222.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 1006115871 13700 62.137.249.222 (18 Nov 2001 20:37:51 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Nov 2001 20:37:51 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!skynet.be!skynet.be!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58877 "Raven" wrote in message news:ejRJ7.172$0z1.5083@news.get2net.dk... > "RLV" skrev i en meddelelse > news:9t709k$aso$1@news.wanadoo.es... > > > > My finest hour, mooning at millions, ahh yes... :) > > *envy* > Well, I know of a man who has mooned billions, now, since time was > not. By a rough estimate that I made some months ago, about sixty > billion at least, counting only Homo Sapiens. > The man in the Moon. > > Such silly messages As opposed to *which* serious thread??? :) D. ###### From: "Raven" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <9t4e3r$hif$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t6f8b$lhas$1@ID-81911.news.dfncis.de> <9t6p4b$out$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t709k$aso$1@news.wanadoo.es> <9t966v$dc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:43:00 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.82.196.13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@get2.net X-Trace: news.get2net.dk 1006120456 195.82.196.13 (Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:54:16 MET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:54:16 MET Organization: get2net Internet Kunde Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news.get2net.dk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58853 "David Flood" skrev i en meddelelse news:9t966v$dc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk... > > Such silly messages > As opposed to *which* serious thread??? :) Good point. Although I may say this for meself: the on-topic threads that have appeared on rabt that I have replied to, I haven't cross-posted those to aft. Of course, if all did like me, your point wouldn't be good. Crú. ###### From: "David Flood" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien,alt.fan.tolkien Subject: Re: The Campaign for Real Tolkien Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:11:44 -0000 Lines: 23 Message-ID: <9t9bhr$fbj$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8cu0vts1h6dhttt671nebnrnj91uignitm@4ax.com> <9t4e3r$hif$1@newsg4.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t6f8b$lhas$1@ID-81911.news.dfncis.de> <9t6p4b$out$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <9t709k$aso$1@news.wanadoo.es> <9t966v$dc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-222.nuada.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 1006121339 15731 62.137.249.222 (18 Nov 2001 22:08:59 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Nov 2001 22:08:59 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.mailgate.org!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.74.65.73.MISMATCH!btnet-peer0!btnet-peer!btnet!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:58899 "Raven" wrote in message news:c6WJ7.292$0z1.7123@news.get2net.dk... > "David Flood" skrev i en meddelelse > news:9t966v$dc4$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > > Such silly messages > > As opposed to *which* serious thread??? :) > Good point. Although I may say this for meself: the on-topic threads > that have appeared on rabt that I have replied to, I haven't > cross-posted those to aft. Now, now; that's not much of a defence! > Of course, if all did like me, your point wouldn't be good. But it is - even SF has re-appeared in these groups, attracted by the oncoming newbies... D.