Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: End of fourth age (was Re: For the last time, ...) Date: 04 Oct 2001 22:39:07 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6ud743rvh0.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9pcp78$oef$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <9pgoql$3vh$1@linux3.ph.utexas.edu> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 1002227948 445 10.0.3.2 (4 Oct 2001 20:39:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Oct 2001 20:39:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:53765 ktn3654@physics.utexas.edu (Kevin) writes: > (More rampant speculation: that seems to fit in with the theory that > some cataclysm destroyed Gondor and Arnor at the end of the Fourth > Age.) > so my guess is he left at the end of the Fourth Age, maybe 2500 > years after the time of LOTR. I have over the last 1.5 years reading rabt seen various references to: - end of fourth age, and ev fifth/sithx/? age - various catastrophies or cataclysms that bump up the age count - speculations what these events are/were - numbers around 2000 years per age After reading all 12 HoME volumes I have not found an single remark about any of this. Does there exist an actual Tolkien text talking about this stuff, about what happens between LotR and today (discounting "the new shadow")? If so, which text, and what does he say on this theme? -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 04 Oct 2001 21:06:50 GMT References: <6ud743rvh0.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Subject: Re: End of fourth age (was Re: For the last time, ...) Message-ID: <20011004170650.07805.00001230@nso-fo.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:53804 In article <6ud743rvh0.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >ktn3654@physics.utexas.edu (Kevin) writes: > >> (More rampant speculation: that seems to fit in with the theory that >> some cataclysm destroyed Gondor and Arnor at the end of the Fourth >> Age.) > >> so my guess is he left at the end of the Fourth Age, maybe 2500 >> years after the time of LOTR. > >I have over the last 1.5 years reading rabt seen various references to: > >- end of fourth age, and ev fifth/sithx/? age >- various catastrophies or cataclysms that bump up the age count >- speculations what these events are/were >- numbers around 2000 years per age > >After reading all 12 HoME volumes I have not found an single remark >about any of this. > >Does there exist an actual Tolkien text talking about this stuff, >about what happens between LotR and today (discounting "the new >shadow")? If so, which text, and what does he say on this theme? Try Letters. All 12 Volumes of HOME? hahahahahahahahahahaha!!!!!! Russ ###### From: ktn3654@physics.utexas.edu (Kevin) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: End of fourth age (was Re: For the last time, ...) Date: 4 Oct 2001 16:58:52 -0500 Organization: LFSUG Lines: 46 Message-ID: <9pim2s$8vf$1@linux3.ph.utexas.edu> References: <9pcp78$oef$1@plutonium.btinternet.com> <9pgoql$3vh$1@linux3.ph.utexas.edu> <6ud743rvh0.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: linux3.ph.utexas.edu X-Trace: geraldo.cc.utexas.edu 1002232733 12655 128.83.131.123 (4 Oct 2001 21:58:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@cc.utexas.edu NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 21:58:53 +0000 (UTC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.tele.dk!small.news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.cs.utexas.edu!geraldo.cc.utexas.edu!physics.utexas.edu!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:53812 In article <6ud743rvh0.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: >ktn3654@physics.utexas.edu (Kevin) writes: > >> (More rampant speculation: that seems to fit in with the theory that >> some cataclysm destroyed Gondor and Arnor at the end of the Fourth >> Age.) > >> so my guess is he left at the end of the Fourth Age, maybe 2500 >> years after the time of LOTR. > >I have over the last 1.5 years reading rabt seen various references to: > >- end of fourth age, and ev fifth/sithx/? age >- various catastrophies or cataclysms that bump up the age count >- speculations what these events are/were >- numbers around 2000 years per age > >After reading all 12 HoME volumes I have not found an single remark >about any of this. > >Does there exist an actual Tolkien text talking about this stuff, >about what happens between LotR and today (discounting "the new >shadow")? If so, which text, and what does he say on this theme? I'm not sure why you discount "The New Shadow." There is certainly very little, but in one of his letters Tolkien said we were now living towards the end of the Sixth Age or at the beginning of the Seventh. He also said that subsequent Ages had not lasted as long as the Second and Third ones. 2000 years seems a reasonable guess as to how long they lasted. Since Tolkien was such a devout Catholic, it's a plausible surmise that he regarded the Incarnation as marking the beginning of a new Age. It would have had to be the beginning of the Sixth Age, so if the Sixth Age ended around Tolkien's own lifetime, then that is further confirmation for 2000 years as the rough span of later Ages. Part of Tolkien's philosophy was that his writings were set in an imaginary time-period of the real world, far in the past. Clearly the geography of Middle-Earth on his maps is different from present-day geography, so one can deduce that some cataclysm occurred between then and now. Kevin