From: "Douglas Eckhart" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 01:32:14 +0100 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 46 Message-ID: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-16-144.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!btnet-peer!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44713 Yup, I just finished it last night. The first time I have read it for years. I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end of the last chapter! I don't remember the emotional impact of the Grey Havens having this effect before. I always remember it being sad, but this time I seemed to engage with it more, it seems. I guess one of the main reasons it is so compelling and sad is that you have got to know these characters so well over the course of the book, so you share the trio's grief at the final parting., Of all the Characters, Gandalf's parting affected me most for some reason, he is just so much at the heart of Tlotr. (ok so this sounds *sad* but there you go!) However, I must be a glutton for punishment because afterwards I thought "I remember Peter Jackson saying that he was beefing up the Aragorn &Arwen love interest for the films" (He states that it IS a part of lotr, he is using the story contained in the appendix. - true enough I suppose) I thought " well, I might as well read that as too" When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! MERCY!!!! Oh well, Just thought I would confess and share that one, as I saw an earlier thread on similar lines. Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will (and you probably will) However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! Regards Douglas ###### From: "bigme" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Lines: 14 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Message-ID: <9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 03:53:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 161.184.205.26 X-Trace: news0.telusplanet.net 996119621 161.184.205.26 (Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:53:41 MDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 21:53:41 MDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone.bc.net!newsfeed.telusplanet.net!news0.telusplanet.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44708 "Douglas Eckhart" wrote: > Yup, > I just finished it last night. The first time I have read it for years. > I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end > of the last chapter! I'm reading it again right now and it seems to me that everytime I read LOTR it becomes sadder. The part where Aragorn leaves Ceren Amroth and it reads "...and came there never again as living man." really chokes me up. I find the part of the book where The Fellowship is in Lothlorien to be incredibly sad with Galadriel talking about the world as she knows it coming to an end no matt ###### From: mcjabba@iname.com (Jabba) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 26 Jul 2001 07:22:08 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 19 Message-ID: <5882b57b.0107260622.7444989e@posting.google.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.154.78.232 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 996157329 17368 127.0.0.1 (26 Jul 2001 14:22:09 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-support@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jul 2001 14:22:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44712 "bigme" wrote in message news:<9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net>... > "Douglas Eckhart" wrote: > > Yup, > > I just finished it last night. The first time I have read it for years. > > I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end > > of the last chapter! > > I'm reading it again right now and it seems to me that everytime I read LOTR > it becomes sadder. The part where Aragorn leaves Ceren Amroth and it reads > "...and came there never again as living man." really chokes me up. I find > the part of the book where The Fellowship is in Lothlorien to be incredibly > sad with Galadriel talking about the world as she knows it coming to an end > no matter what happens. Yeah, and then you look around and see what happended to the world since that time :-)), it sure makes you mad. Jabba P.S.Don't ever read that appendix again! ###### From: arebello64@hotmail.com (AR) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 26 Jul 2001 09:06:37 -0700 Organization: http://groups.google.com/ Lines: 22 Message-ID: <2a4798d.0107260806.558f88c4@posting.google.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.63.224.50 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: posting.google.com 996163597 21503 127.0.0.1 (26 Jul 2001 16:06:37 GMT) X-Complaints-To: groups-support@google.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jul 2001 16:06:37 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!postnews1.google.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44711 "bigme" wrote in message news:<9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net>... > "Douglas Eckhart" wrote: > > Yup, > > I just finished it last night. The first time I have read it for years. > > I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end > > of the last chapter! > > I'm reading it again right now and it seems to me that everytime I read LOTR > it becomes sadder. The part where Aragorn leaves Ceren Amroth and it reads > "...and came there never again as living man." really chokes me up. I find > the part of the book where The Fellowship is in Lothlorien to be incredibly > sad with Galadriel talking about the world as she knows it coming to an end > no matter what happens. Finishing LoTR chokes me up no end. I find the scene where Merry and Pippin ride up right before Frodo et. al. take the last ship particularly poignant. I like to read the tale of years for the Fourth Age in the appendix after the Grey Havens, although it neither cheers me up nor satisfies my desire to read more about the characters. -AR ###### From: stephen@nomail.msu.edu Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 26 Jul 2001 16:08:04 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 13 Sender: stephen Message-ID: <9jpf94$25vs$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: nw81.cse.msu.edu User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!canoe.uoregon.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44678 Douglas Eckhart wrote: : However, I must be a glutton for punishment because afterwards I thought : "I remember Peter Jackson saying that he was beefing up the Aragorn &Arwen : love interest for the films" : (He states that it IS a part of lotr, he is using the story contained in : the appendix. - true enough I suppose) : I thought " well, I might as well read that as too" Just out of curiosity, had you read the appendices before? Also, do you consider the appendices to be part of the story? Stephen ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 26 Jul 2001 22:32:34 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 34 Message-ID: <6uae1rl9ct.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 996179554 568 10.0.3.2 (26 Jul 2001 20:32:34 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 26 Jul 2001 20:32:34 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44751 "Douglas Eckhart" writes: > I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end > of the last chapter! It has that effect here also, perhaps no quite so extreme. > When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on > the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed > and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', > > I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! > MERCY!!!! That bit allways gets me badly. > Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will > (and you probably will) No bad in accepting yourself and your feelings, even if Flame dislikes it :-). > However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! Sure :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Hacker, Unix Guru, El Eng HTL/BSc, Sysadmin, Archer, Roleplayer - Intellectual Property is Intellectual Robbery ###### From: "Douglas Eckhart" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 00:11:50 +0100 Organization: BT Internet Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9jq83n$6di$1@uranium.btinternet.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9vM77.1232$b_3.114926@news0.telusplanet.net> <5882b57b.0107260622.7444989e@posting.google.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: host213-122-188-130.btinternet.com X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4522.1200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!btnet-peer0!btnet-feed5!btnet!mendelevium.btinternet.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44869 "Jabba" wrote in message news:5882b57b.0107260622.7444989e@posting.google.com... > Jabba > > P.S.Don't ever read that appendix again! I'm not sure if I got that one.... Why? Regards Douglas ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 19:17:18 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: <9nj1mt87qlu8uptavt92h6q5ulvbvmlg8l@4ax.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9jpf94$25vs$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 12 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44968 On 26 Jul 2001 16:08:04 GMT, stephen@nomail.msu.edu wrote: >Also, do you consider the appendices to be part of the story? Absolutely! Why else would they be there? (Tolkien liked to use up paper to kill trees??!!??) the softrat mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- Ah! But does a half-dead cat have Buddha Nature? ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 09:01:26 -0400 Lines: 31 Message-ID: <3B616624.BB9294FD@erols.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVYPQPdJyk7UpWK6qZjcu87AXFPA9SOb030BVj0+x9Q6Em3V34ZQzUGB X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Jul 2001 19:04:27 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!colt.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:44755 Douglas Eckhart made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on > the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed > and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', I didn't remember that. > I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! > MERCY!!!! Amen! > Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will > (and you probably will) > > However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! Now, you've nearly made me cry! Twice in one morning! Is there some sort of conspiracy going on? > Regards > Douglas Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight, Lady of Rivendell Elbereth Gilthoniel! ###### From: stephen@nomail.msu.edu Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 31 Jul 2001 21:42:27 GMT Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 21 Sender: stephen Message-ID: <9k78o3$2abc$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9jpf94$25vs$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <9nj1mt87qlu8uptavt92h6q5ulvbvmlg8l@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: pacific.cse.msu.edu User-Agent: tin/pre-1.4-980618 (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!news.cc.ukans.edu!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:45593 the softrat wrote: : On 26 Jul 2001 16:08:04 GMT, stephen@nomail.msu.edu wrote: :>Also, do you consider the appendices to be part of the story? : Absolutely! Why else would they be there? (Tolkien liked to use up : paper to kill trees??!!??) In the original post, the poster implied that reading the appendices was an afterthought, that they had finished the "story" when the finished reading the Grey Havens. I have often wondered how many people who read LOTR actually read the appendices, and what sort of understanding the average reader of LOTR has of Middle Earth. Unfortunately, the average read of LOTR does not post here. Tolkien himself mentioned that the appendices were not necessary and that many people probably would not read them. If I also remember rightly, LOTR was first published without the appendices. Stephen ###### From: "Lady Cin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:35:11 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9jpf94$25vs$3@msunews.cl.msu.edu> <9nj1mt87qlu8uptavt92h6q5ulvbvmlg8l@4ax.com> <9k78o3$2abc$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 45 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.stealth.net!feed.textport.net!sn-xit-04!sn-post-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:45623 wrote in message news:9k78o3$2abc$1@msunews.cl.msu.edu... > the softrat wrote: > : On 26 Jul 2001 16:08:04 GMT, stephen@nomail.msu.edu wrote: > > :>Also, do you consider the appendices to be part of the story? > > : Absolutely! Why else would they be there? (Tolkien liked to use up > : paper to kill trees??!!??) > > In the original post, the poster implied that reading the > appendices was an afterthought, that they had finished the "story" > when the finished reading the Grey Havens. I have often wondered > how many people who read LOTR actually read the appendices, and > what sort of understanding the average reader of LOTR has of > Middle Earth. Unfortunately, the average read of LOTR does not > post here. > > Tolkien himself mentioned that the appendices were not necessary > and that many people probably would not read them. If I also > remember rightly, LOTR was first published without the appendices. > > Stephen I dunno...I think I may be one of those 'average' readers...I used to think I knew my LotR pretty good until I started posting here...lol I first read LotR back in the '70's when I was a teen...first time thru I did read the appendices, and on most re-reads (2 out of 3 maybe) I read them again. To me they are kinda like the finishing touch of the story...first you have the prelude (The Hobbit)...then the real story (LotR)...then the finish or what happened after (the appendices). I still have my original paperback set too....giggles...Balantine Books Fantasy, 64th printing, 1973....I'm in the middle of a re-read now after several years, have finished TH and just started on FotR....plan is to finish LotR and appendices then do the Sil again this time (been about 10 or 12 yrs since I read Sil) Lady Cin http://members.tripod.com/lady_cin/ http://www.alabamatechnologies.com ###### Lines: 31 X-Admin: news@cs.com From: ottoyuhr@cs.com (Ottoyuhr) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 05 Aug 2001 03:19:13 GMT References: <3B616624.BB9294FD@erols.com> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Message-ID: <20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.cs.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:45938 Ermanna wrote: >Douglas Eckhart made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > >> When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on >> the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed >> and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', > >I didn't remember that. > >> I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! >> MERCY!!!! > >Amen! > >> Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will >> (and you probably will) >> >> However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! > >Now, you've nearly made me cry! Twice in one morning! Is there >some sort of conspiracy going on? *rolls eyes* I don't understand how anyone could feel so much sympathy for a bunch of obnoxious, obese Victorian anachronisms and a genocidal dictator. Might have something to do with the fact that I turned 18 in June, so I'm still "too young to have sympathy." Hmm... ###### From: Finrod Felagund Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 00:48:28 -0400 Organization: Michigan State University Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <3B616624.BB9294FD@erols.com> <20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ac87985f.ipt.aol.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-AUTHid: pavlikad User-Agent: Microsoft-Entourage/9.0.1.3108 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!solaris.cc.vt.edu!news.vt.edu!msunews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:45909 On 8/4/01 11:19 PM, in article 20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com, "Ottoyuhr" wrote: >> Now, you've nearly made me cry! Twice in one morning! Is there >> some sort of conspiracy going on? > > *rolls eyes* > > I don't understand how anyone could feel so much sympathy for a > bunch of obnoxious, obese Victorian anachronisms and a genocidal > dictator. Might have something to do with the fact that I turned 18 > in June, so I'm still "too young to have sympathy." Hmm... I will waive my right to an argument about the use of the word "obese" to describe the Hobbits, but I really do take umbrage at this "genocidal" adjective coming up again (presumably referring to King Elessar). There is absolutely *no evidence* that what he did was genocidal; to make such an *assumption* is overly pessimistic and is at the *most* no more likely (based on what's in the text) than Elessar *not* being genocidal. ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 17:34:44 -0400 Lines: 42 Message-ID: <3B6F0D71.5688358E@erols.com> References: <3B616624.BB9294FD@erols.com> <20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: UmFuZG9tSVZJ31yuRrhqiQlltFN2Ampv/WSbJZ2ykE88uLK+pnGD+fot/yrLs96p X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Aug 2001 23:10:59 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.news.rcn.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:46021 Ottoyuhr made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > Ermanna wrote: > >Douglas Eckhart made dwagin-sized wripples in the Force: > > > >> When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on > >> the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed > >> and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', > > > >I didn't remember that. > > > >> I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! > >> MERCY!!!! > > > >Amen! > > > >> Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will > >> (and you probably will) > >> > >> However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! > > > >Now, you've nearly made me cry! Twice in one morning! Is there > >some sort of conspiracy going on? > > *rolls eyes* > > I don't understand how anyone could feel so much sympathy for a > bunch of obnoxious, obese Victorian anachronisms and a genocidal > dictator. Should I ask? > Might have something to do with the fact that I turned 18 > in June, so I'm still "too young to have sympathy." Hmm... I doubt you are. I'm about fifteen-and-a-half. Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight, Lady of Rivendell Elbereth Gilthoniel! ###### From: hal Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Message-ID: References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.30 Lines: 52 Date: Tue, 07 Aug 2001 02:45:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.185.188.238 X-Trace: news02.optonline.net 997152341 24.185.188.238 (Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:45:41 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 22:45:41 EDT Organization: Optimum Online Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!usenetserver.com!news01.optonline.net!news02.optonline.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:46109 In article <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com>, douglas.eckhart@btinternet.com says... > Yup, > I just finished it last night. The first time I have read it for years. > I must confess though, that I was turned into a blubbering fool by the end > of the last chapter! > I don't remember the emotional impact of the Grey Havens having this effect > before. I always remember it being sad, but this time I seemed to engage > with it more, it seems. > I guess one of the main reasons it is so compelling and sad is that you have > got to know these characters so well over the course of the book, so you > share the trio's grief at the final parting., Of all the Characters, > Gandalf's parting affected me most for some reason, he is just so much at > the heart of Tlotr. (ok so this sounds *sad* but there you go!) > > However, I must be a glutton for punishment because afterwards I thought > "I remember Peter Jackson saying that he was beefing up the Aragorn &Arwen > love interest for the films" > (He states that it IS a part of lotr, he is using the story contained in > the appendix. - true enough I suppose) > > I thought " well, I might as well read that as too" > > When I got to the end of that, with the final bit about how Arwen lies on > the hill of Cerin Amroth 'until all the lands of Middle-earth have changed > and all her deeds are utterly forgotten by men', > > I went 'NOOOOOOOOOO!!! > MERCY!!!! > > > Oh well, Just thought I would confess and share that one, as I saw an > earlier thread on similar lines. > > Call me a romantic sentimental git if you will > (and you probably will) > > However I'm sure there's a few more closet cases out there! > > Regards > Douglas > When I first read the Lord of the Rings I believed that Frodo, Bilbo and later on Sam became immortal when they crossed over from the Grey Havens. However, when I studied the LOTR further, I discovered that they all passed away because they were not born being immortal. The next time I read the LOTR knowing this fact I felt more sympathy for them. > > > > > ###### From: urban@panix.com (Michael Urban) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: 7 Aug 2001 10:46:25 -0400 Organization: PANIX -- Public Access Networks Corp. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <9kov01$mb4$1@panix3.panix.com> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: panix3.panix.com X-Trace: news.panix.com 997195585 10221 166.84.0.228 (7 Aug 2001 14:46:25 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@panix.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Aug 2001 14:46:25 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsxfer.eecs.umich.edu!panix!news.panix.com!panix3.panix.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:46143 In article , hal wrote: >> >When I first read the Lord of the Rings I believed that Frodo, Bilbo and >later on Sam became immortal when they crossed over from the Grey Havens. >However, when I studied the LOTR further, I discovered that they all >passed away because they were not born being immortal. The next time I >read the LOTR knowing this fact I felt more sympathy for them. The supposition that Frodo et al were granted immortality was widespread (though not universal) during the pre-Silmarillion days of the '60s. Indeed, I suspect that it may have been the basic assumption of whoever anonymously scrawled "Frodo Lives." ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:47:05 +0300 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 16 Message-ID: <9krjer$h0$2@usenet.otenet.gr> References: <3B616624.BB9294FD@erols.com> <20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-o144.otenet.gr X-Trace: usenet.otenet.gr 997282076 544 212.205.252.144 (8 Aug 2001 14:47:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:47:56 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:46160 Ottoyuhr wrote in message news:20010804231913.19942.00002601@ng-fn1.news.cs.com... > > I don't understand how anyone could feel so much sympathy for a > bunch of obnoxious, obese Victorian anachronisms and a genocidal > dictator. I wouldn't understand it either. It's a good thing therefore that we had none of the above in LOTR. Aris Katsaris ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Just finished lotr...cry-baby! Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 17:49:22 +0300 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 26 Message-ID: <9krjj3$lr$2@usenet.otenet.gr> References: <9jnoe0$s2m$1@neptunium.btinternet.com> <9kov01$mb4$1@panix3.panix.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-o144.otenet.gr X-Trace: usenet.otenet.gr 997282212 699 212.205.252.144 (8 Aug 2001 14:50:12 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 14:50:12 +0000 (UTC) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!pinatubo.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!ossa.telenet-ops.be!skynet.be!skynet.be!Amsterdam.Infonet!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:46165 Michael Urban wrote in message news:9kov01$mb4$1@panix3.panix.com... > In article , > hal wrote: > >> > >When I first read the Lord of the Rings I believed that Frodo, Bilbo and > >later on Sam became immortal when they crossed over from the Grey Havens. > >However, when I studied the LOTR further, I discovered that they all > >passed away because they were not born being immortal. The next time I > >read the LOTR knowing this fact I felt more sympathy for them. > > The supposition that Frodo et al were granted immortality was widespread > (though not universal) during the pre-Silmarillion days of the '60s. > Indeed, I suspect that it may have been the basic assumption of whoever > anonymously scrawled "Frodo Lives." It's weird then that I never got that idea, even in the time before I read the Silmarillion... I understood they were going to some place magical but I found no reason to assume there was any immortality thingy that was going to be bestowed to them... Aris Katsaris