Lines: 18 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mnkohrz@gateway.net (Mnkohrz) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 20 Feb 2001 19:27:25 GMT Organization: http://www.compuserve.com Subject: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Message-ID: <20010220142725.02924.00001912@ng-fy1.news.gateway.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32784 Howdy! Just been thinking about my previous posts on the subject of dragons and another interesting question occurred to me. According to the map in the LOTR, the Iron Hills aren't that far from the Lonely Mountain. Why then did Smaug tolerate the existence of a colony of dwarves so close to his lair? IT's unlikely that he would have gained much in the way of treasure, of course, and he probably disliked the thought of leaving his own treasure unguarded, but then again, this is the same creature who flew the entire distance from the Lonely Mountain to Lake-town (Esgarath) in just a couple of hours. Surely it was not distance that daunted him. The other possibility that occurs to me is that Smaug was aware that the dwarves of the Iron Hills were not the tame sheep that he had killed at Erebor a hundred years (and then some) earlier. They were very well armed and fierce fighters and doubtless would have fortified their dwellings against just such an attack. Against this theory I weigh the fact that Smaug was a dragon whose size and might were exceeded only by his arrogance. Can anyone else think of any other ideas to explain this paradox? Mnkohrz ###### Lines: 6 X-Admin: news@cs.com From: ottoyuhr@cs.com (Ottoyuhr) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 20 Feb 2001 21:14:57 GMT References: <20010220142725.02924.00001912@ng-fy1.news.gateway.net> Organization: CompuServe (http://www.compuserve.com/) Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Message-ID: <20010220161457.02928.00001250@ng-fb1.news.cs.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.cs.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32766 > Can anyone else think of any other ideas to explain this paradox? > It _may_ be that Smaug did not know of the Dwarves in the Iron Hills, or if he did, he might not have cared enough to attack them or might have assumed that they wouldn't have anything worth taking. ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:19:42 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 15 Message-ID: References: <20010220142725.02924.00001912@ng-fy1.news.gateway.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.6b X-Server-Date: 20 Feb 2001 23:15:54 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!newsfeed.stanford.edu!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32786 Quoth Mnkohrz in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >the Iron Hills aren't that far from the Lonely Mountain. Why then >did Smaug tolerate the existence of a colony of dwarves so close to his lair? >IT's unlikely that he would have gained much in the way of treasure, I think you have answered your own question. Smaug was originally attracted to the Lonely Mountain not by the fact that Dwarves lived there but by the fabulous wealth of Thror. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cortland County, New York, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien/ Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### Lines: 21 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 21 Feb 2001 01:08:21 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Message-ID: <20010220200821.13655.00005357@nso-mq.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-mue1.dfn.de!news-nue1.dfn.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!surfnet.nl!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32759 In article , brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) writes: >Quoth Mnkohrz in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >>the Iron Hills aren't that far from the Lonely Mountain. Why then >>did Smaug tolerate the existence of a colony of dwarves so close to his >lair? >>IT's unlikely that he would have gained much in the way of treasure, > >I think you have answered your own question. Smaug was originally >attracted to the Lonely Mountain not by the fact that Dwarves lived >there but by the fabulous wealth of Thror. The Dwarves of Erebor also appear to have been caught sleeping, so to speak. With the lesson of Erebor so fresh in their minds, I doubt the dwarves of the Iron Hills would have been caught so. The fact that Dain was able to marshall and assemble an army on such short notice and march it to the Lonely Mountain in time for the Battle of the Five Armies tells me they must have been in a state of readiness to begin with. Russ ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:41:41 -0800 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Message-ID: References: <20010220142725.02924.00001912@ng-fy1.news.gateway.net> <20010220161457.02928.00001250@ng-fb1.news.cs.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 24 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!freenix!sn-xit-01!sn-post-01!supernews.com!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32787 On 20 Feb 2001 21:14:57 GMT, ottoyuhr@cs.com (Ottoyuhr) wrote: >> Can anyone else think of any other ideas to explain this paradox? > >It _may_ be that Smaug did not know of the Dwarves in the Iron Hills, or if he >did, he might not have cared enough to attack them or might have assumed that >they wouldn't have anything worth taking. How about: Traditional dragons are territorial beasts, only interested in defending their immediate surroundings, although they will travel some distance to punish those who steal from them. Generally, like cats, if the foe is not in easy striking distance, they will just go back to sleep. E.g., Fafner to his killer, Siegfried: <> JRRT was steeped in traditional lore. the softrat mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- "A new study shows that licking a frog can cure depression. The down side is, the minute you stop licking, the frog gets depressed again." --Jay Leno ###### Lines: 23 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mnkohrz@gateway.net (Mnkohrz) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 22 Feb 2001 06:21:54 GMT References: Organization: http://www.compuserve.com Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? Message-ID: <20010222012154.21800.00002407@ng-cr1.news.gateway.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:32863 >Subject: Re: Why didn't Smaug attack the Iron Hills? >From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) >Date: 2/20/01 5:19 PM Central Standard Time > >Quoth Mnkohrz in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >>the Iron Hills aren't that far from the Lonely Mountain. Why then did Smaug tolerate the existence of a colony of dwarves so close to his >lair? >>IT's unlikely that he would have gained much in the way of treasure, > >I think you have answered your own question. Smaug was originally attracted to the Lonely Mountain not by the fact that Dwarves lived there but by the fabulous wealth of Thror. That's true. I just figured that if Bilbo's description of the Desolation of the Dragon was accurate, then Smaug would have had to travel some distance to find something to snack on and what better snack for a dragon than a dwarf? :) In all seriousness, tho, I doubt that Tolkien ever really gave the question a thought or if he did, he concluded that the advantages of having a large, well-armed host of dwarves that Thorin could quickly summon was far more important to the plot than this trivial detail. Mnkohrz