From: LESDL Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: The Prohecies of Mandos Organization: Tertiary Adjunct Of Unimatrix Zero One Message-ID: <4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 28 Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 13:04:22 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.58.158.13 X-Complaints-To: abuse@shore.net X-Trace: news.shore.net 978026141 209.58.158.13 (Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:55:41 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 12:55:41 EST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!news-was.dfn.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.shore.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:30720 In UT we may read: " Who was "Gandalf?" It is said that in later days (when again a shadow of evil arose in the Kingdom) it was believed by many of the "Faithful" of that time that "Gandalf" was the last appearance of Manwë himself, before his final withdrawal to the watchtower of Taniquetil. (That Gandalf said that his name "in the West" had been Olórin was, according to this belief, the adoption of an incognito, a mere by-name.) I do not (of course) know the truth of the matter, and if I did it would be a mistake to be more explicit than Gandalf was. But I think it was not so. Manwë will not descend from the Mountain until Dagor Dagorath, and the coming of the End, when Melkor returns." The note pertaining to this section,specifically to the last sentence, states that this is a reference to "the Second Prophecy of Mandos." It also states that this was not mentioned in The Silmarillion. Would someone please be so kind as to point me to the text which may contain some information on the first and second prohecies? Any explanations would also be appreciated. -- LESDL 74" Asshole(tm) 24 lb BS SENS http://eddiekieger.com ###### From: Hallaril Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Prohecies of Mandos Date: 28 Dec 2000 19:04:36 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 13 Message-ID: <92g2s4$an3$3@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> References: <4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: kruuna.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 978030276 10979 128.214.205.14 (28 Dec 2000 19:04:36 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 28 Dec 2000 19:04:36 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (SunOS/5.8 (sun4u)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!194.255.56.67!newsfeed101.telia.com!newsrouter.euroconnect.net!news.clinet.fi!news.cs.hut.fi!newsfeed2.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:30719 > states that this is a reference to "the Second Prophecy of Mandos." It > also states that this was not mentioned in The Silmarillion. > Would someone please be so kind as to point me to the text which may > contain some information on the first and second prohecies? Any > explanations would also be appreciated. This was the first thing I asked in this NG. I think it can still be found at Deja. It was about a year ago, and it was discussed thoroughly, even Martinez paid the issue some attention. Hallaril ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The Prohecies of Mandos Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:46:41 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.25.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 978043601 12.79.25.72 (Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:46:41 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 22:46:41 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:30722 "LESDL" wrote in message news:4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com... > Would someone please be so kind as to point me to the text which > may contain some information on the first and second prohecies? Information about them is scattered all over the place, but in general I'd recommend Shaping of Middle Earth and Morgoth's Ring. Just look in the indices under 'Mandos' and 'Prophecy'. > Any explanations would also be appreciated. 1st Prophecy: 'All you Noldor are going to have a really lousy time in Middle Earth.' Also known as the Prophecy of the North or the Doom of Mandos. 2nd Prophecy: 'At the end of time Melkor is going to come back and make a fuss. The Valar are going to be all tired so Eonwe and Turin (or others - it varies by version) will beat him up and finish him off for good. Then Feanor will finally stop being a wanker and the Silmarils will be recovered and Feanor will unmake them so Yavanna can use the light to rekindle the two trees and all will be goodness and light.' ###### From: LESDL Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Prohecies of Mandos Date: Thu, 28 Dec 2000 17:55:15 -0500 Organization: Tertiary Adjunct Of Unimatrix Zero One Message-ID: References: <4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com> <92g2s4$an3$3@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 X-No-Archive: yes MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com Lines: 25 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!tungurahua!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!193.190.198.17.MISMATCH!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!sn-xit-02!sn-post-01!supernews.com!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:30733 On 28 Dec 2000 19:04:36 GMT, Hallaril flexed fingers and pecked: > >> states that this is a reference to "the Second Prophecy of Mandos." It >> also states that this was not mentioned in The Silmarillion. > >> Would someone please be so kind as to point me to the text which may >> contain some information on the first and second prohecies? Any >> explanations would also be appreciated. > >This was the first thing I asked in this NG. I think it can still be >found at Deja. It was about a year ago, and it was discussed thoroughly, >even Martinez paid the issue some attention. > I did indeed find a wealth of information. Thanks for the reminder to use deja. -- LESDL 74" Asshole(tm) 24 lb BS SENS http://eddiekieger.com ###### From: "Morgil" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <4ivm4tchitu6ddn9vbv1c3976e8lnbbqga@4ax.com> Subject: Re: The Prohecies of Mandos Lines: 25 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 16:50:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.197.14.242 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 978108631 194.197.14.242 (Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:50:31 EET) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 29 Dec 2000 18:50:31 EET Organization: Sonera corp Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.teliafi.net!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:30739 Conrad Dunkerson kirjoitti viestissä ... > >1st Prophecy: 'All you Noldor are going to have a really lousy time >in Middle Earth.' Also known as the Prophecy of the North or the >Doom of Mandos. > >2nd Prophecy: 'At the end of time Melkor is going to come back and >make a fuss. The Valar are going to be all tired so Eonwe and >Turin (or others - it varies by version) will beat him up and >finish him off for good. Then Feanor will finally stop being a >wanker and the Silmarils will be recovered and Feanor will unmake >them so Yavanna can use the light to rekindle the two trees and >all will be goodness and light.' :) Prophecyaminute.com? Morgil