Message-ID: <39DC4944.25531A1D@hotmail.com> From: Crypthanatopsis Organization: Elvish Linguistic Fellowship X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Followup to my own post References: <20000922164246.06261.00000651@nso-cg.aol.com> <8rbk5u$sp1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8rdbid$f9d$1@cpca14.uea.ac.uk> <8reloj$b80$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39DC40D0.8676945B@hotmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 05:26:28 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 199.234.152.194 X-Trace: newsfeed.slurp.net 970736994 199.234.152.194 (Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:09:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2000 04:09:54 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.slurp.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:28067 Excuse me for posting so hastily, it was the thrill of saying something relevant that got away with me.... Anyway, upon further reading into the original drafts about Celeborn and Galadriel, two more important differences crop up. Firstly, Celeborn mentions to Frodo that he is pursued by a danger he [Celeborn] cannot see clearly or understand (clearly a reference to Gollum; the fact that Celeborn can somehow discern this marks his as being wise indeed). Secondly, the mirror was originally, though briefly, Celeborn's, not Galadriel's. Tolkien scrapped that idea before writing the mirror scene, but in his plot notes, it is clearly referred to as belonging to Celeborn. Christopher mentions that as his father progressed, he gradually deepened Galadriel's character and enlarged her role. One can read the progression, as Celeborn's qualities and lines are gradually absorbed by Galadriel. It seems, in the beginning, that Galadriel has a lot indeed to respect Celeborn for, whereas by the final drafting she has become the character, and Celeborn has dwindled to a bit player, subservient at her side. -Crypthanatopsis ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Followup to my own post Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2000 11:28:54 -0400 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 7 Message-ID: References: <20000922164246.06261.00000651@nso-cg.aol.com> <8rbk5u$sp1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8rdbid$f9d$1@cpca14.uea.ac.uk> <8reloj$b80$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39DC40D0.8676945B@hotmail.com> <39DC4944.25531A1D@hotmail.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 3f.35.6f.87 X-Server-Date: 5 Oct 2000 15:27:56 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!schlund.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!cyclone2.usenetserver.com!news-out.usenetserver.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:28102 Crypthanatopsis wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: [two articles of interesting stuff on the evolution of the characters of Celeborn and Galadriel] Thanks! ###### From: "Dave Lind" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000922164246.06261.00000651@nso-cg.aol.com> <8rbk5u$sp1$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8rdbid$f9d$1@cpca14.uea.ac.uk> <8reloj$b80$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39DC40D0.8676945B@hotmail.com> <39DC4944.25531A1D@hotmail.com> Subject: Re: Followup to my own post Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2000 00:26:50 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.0.62.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 970878410 24.0.62.34 (Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:26:50 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2000 17:26:50 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!HSNX.atgi.net!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:28165 "Crypthanatopsis" wrote in message news:39DC4944.25531A1D@hotmail.com... > It seems, in the beginning, that Galadriel has a lot > indeed to respect Celeborn for, whereas by the final drafting she has become the > character, and Celeborn has dwindled to a bit player, subservient at her side. So Celeborn shrinks and becomes like What's-his-name, you know, the husband of QE2. Dave