From: mnkohrz@gateway.net (Mnkohrz) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 37 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 08 Sep 2000 03:47:08 GMT Organization: http://www.compuserve.com Message-ID: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!news.rhrz.uni-bonn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!stueberl.r-kom.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26944 While I love the Lord of the Rings as much as or more than any lurker here, I confess that there have been times when, operating on the theory that all possibilities which can happen do happen, I could just reach into a parallel dimension and locate a copy in which Tolkien introduced one of the following variations: 10. An ent joins the Company after the destruction of Isengard. 9. Frodo & Sam successfully destroy the Ring, but then perish in the ruin of Mt. Doom and it's now up to Merry & Pippin to save the Shire. 8. All four hobbits make the journey to Mt. Doom. 7. Sam leaves Frodo in the hands of the orcs at Cirith Ungol, journies to Mt. Doom and casts the Ring into the fire and thereby becomes "Samwise the Strong, Hero of the Age." 6. Saruman repents and helps Gandalf destroy Sauron. 5. Aragorn seizes the Ring, overthrows Sauron and becomes the new Dark Lord and now Gandalf and Co. are confronted with the problem of destroying him. 4. Celeborn hacks off Gimli's head as a lesson to other dwarves who might be tempted to hit on his wife. :) 3. The Balrog and Sauron wage war on each other. 2. Elrond sends Pippin back to the Shire tied up in a sack and Bilbo takes his place in the company. and the number one variation... SAURON WINS !!! [Yeah, yeah, I know, but I've always been a sucker for lost causes and I think it would be really interesting to follow the deeds of Aragorn, Eomer, etc as they fight to the death. Just think of it as the Silmarillion 2 except with a happy ending :) ] Mnkohrz - "The true mystery of human nature is how we can demand that others respect us for who we are while simultaneously expecting them to conform to our own standards." ###### From: "Undisputed" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 10 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.2106.4 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 06:22:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.77.27.48 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 968394137 12.77.27.48 (Fri, 08 Sep 2000 06:22:17 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 06:22:17 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26833 Some interesting ideas there. I wonder how things would have been had Denethor insisted Faramir go north and Boromir had stayed home. Would Faramir have turned on the company or would the Company have stayed together much longer? Or perhaps Faramir would have proven significantly weaker than Boromir and the Company never would have made it through Moria. Ah, to wonder... ###### From: Seth Low Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 08:16:22 -0400 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 19 Message-ID: <39B8D896.B170E515@charm.net> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27019 Faramir does say that when the quest of Imladris came up Boromir "put himself forward as being the older and hardier (both true)..." But we also have this: "And [Eowyn] looked at him and saw the grave tenderness in his eyes, and yet knew, for she was bred among men of war, that here was one whom no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle." So I figure he could probably have shoveled snow just as good as his brother. I think people are often fooled into thinking Faramir weak and Boromir evil. This is wrong. Faramir is sensitive and Boromir is headstrong. But sensitive men can be strong and good men need not be "nicey-nice." ###### From: "Christopher M. Jones" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 44 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.3018.1300 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 8 Sep 2000 07:34:53 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.224.202.20 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 968423686 63.224.202.20 (Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:34:46 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 09:34:46 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26994 oookay, here's mine 10. Frodo and Sam are killed by Shelob and Gollum gets the ring but through various adventures he turns good and destroys the ring. 9. Frodo accidentally leaves the ring in Bag End and Lobelia Sackville-Baggins becomes the new dark lord. 8. After Frodo is killed by Shelob he comes back to life and discovers that he is _the_one_ and proceeds to kick ass all over Agent Nazgul. 7. Merry and Pippen don't escape and are delivered to Saruman where he corrupts and sways them and then sends them back to the company. 6. The Balrog of moria takes the ring for itself and a war between the Balrog and Sauron ensues. 5. Saruman's orc-human hybrids turn on Saruman and switch alegiance to the good side. 4. Manwe comes back to ME and tears Sauron a new asshole. 3. _Beren_ comes back to ME (with a Silmaril of course) and tears Sauron a new asshole. 2. The dwarves, elves, and Gandalf work together and forge a _new_ ring of power with powers that can fight the one ring. 1. Frodo dies before reaching Rivendell (though the company lives and brings the ring), Elrond takes the burden of the ring on himself but during the journey he loses the ring to the nazgul who take it back to Sauron. Elrond raises an army of Elves, Men, Dwarves, Hobbits, and Ents and defeats Sauron's army. The climax is Elrond (with the newly remade Aiglos) and Aragorn going toe to toe with Sauron on mount doom. ###### From: everett_thiele@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 14:38:50 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 38 Message-ID: <8patln$p10$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39B8D896.B170E515@charm.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.17.73.90 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Sep 08 14:38:50 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.5; Mac_PowerPC) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x70.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 195.17.73.90 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDeverett_thiele Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!oleane.net!oleane!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26982 In article <39B8D896.B170E515@charm.net>, Seth Low wrote: > Faramir does say that when the quest of Imladris came up Boromir "put > himself forward as being the older and hardier (both true)..." > > But we also have this: > > "And [Eowyn] looked at him and saw the grave tenderness in his eyes, > and yet knew, for she was bred among men of war, that here was one whom > no Rider of the Mark would outmatch in battle." > > So I figure he could probably have shoveled snow just as good as his > brother. > > I think people are often fooled into thinking Faramir weak and Boromir > evil. This is wrong. Faramir is sensitive and Boromir is > headstrong. But sensitive men can be strong and good men need not be > "nicey-nice." > Exactly. Boromir doesn't fail because he is evil. If anything he fails because he is so zealously good. He really believes he could use the ring to overthrow Sauron and not be corrupted. And as for his getting into arguments with Aragorn and others during the quest, it is only natural that a person with his leadership ability would have a hard time just following along and not trying to take charge. regards, --Rett > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 01:12:00 +0300 Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 43 Message-ID: <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: latvabeekakkonen.in.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 968451104 14655 128.214.204.118 (8 Sep 2000 22:11:44 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Sep 2000 22:11:44 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-ulm.de!rz.uni-karlsruhe.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26979 Mnkohrz wrote: > While I love the Lord of the Rings as much as or more than any lurker here, I > confess that there have been times when, operating on the theory that all > possibilities which can happen do happen, I could just reach into a parallel > dimension and locate a copy in which Tolkien introduced one of the following > variations: snip Here's my top list 1) Glorofindel, Galadriel, Elrond and co get past their lazyness and realise how idiotic it is to give a guest of this magnitude to a bunch of losers and after putting on their adventure gear march to Mordor. 2) The Nazgul understand that they are facing with four little rats and a man living in the history of his familty (and who doesn't even carry a real sword) and take the ring either in Bree or at the weathertop. 3) Smaug is bought off with the half of the treasures of the elven kingdoms and he carries the ring and some heroes (Glorofindel et co, not the hobbits to mount doom where they fight off the Nazguls and Sauron ( who were the only ones who were fast enough to reach orodruin) and destroy the ring. 4) like number three but a few eagles help insted of Smaug 5) Saruman gets the ring and starts fighting Sauron 6) sauron is not as stupid as the wise think and he is waiting Frodo at Mount Doom personally or he has left a guard of only 1000 orcs to protect the only place where he can be defeated 7) Feanor gets pissed of watching other people's incompetence. He kills Mandos and escapes. He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. He forgets about the ring because he could make another one in a day. He marches to Mordor, and kills Sauron because he is bored. He finds the Silmarili. Builds a few boats and sails to Valinor where he demands allegiance from the Valar (which they gladly give because they are pussyfooted cowards and know that Feanor could run things a bit more efficiently) and takes the high kingship of Arda. Tamim ###### From: jce@seasip.demon.co.uk (John Elliott) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 23:09:14 Message-ID: <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: seasip.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: seasip.demon.co.uk:194.222.112.145 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 968454702 nnrp-12:26492 NO-IDENT seasip.demon.co.uk:194.222.112.145 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: skim 0.8.4 Lines: 27 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!psiuk-p4!uknet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!seasip.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27013 Tamim wrote: >7) Feanor gets pissed of watching other people's incompetence. He kills >Mandos and escapes. He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. >He forgets about the ring because he could make another one in a day. He >marches to Mordor, and kills Sauron because he is bored. He finds the >Silmarili. Builds a few boats and sails to Valinor where he demands >allegiance from the Valar (which they gladly give because they are >pussyfooted cowards and know that Feanor could run things a bit more >efficiently) and takes the high kingship of Arda. Whereupon he promptly orders Ulmo to retrieve all the Palantiri which have fallen in the sea over the years, and sends Manwe to fetch the ones still on land, on the grounds that he only lent them to the Edain and they've obviously shown no interest in looking after them properly. The rest of the Valar he sends into various parts of ME, with instructions not to come back until they can prove that *all* the Balrogs and other rebel Ainur have been accounted for. Tulkas doesn't come back for centuries because he gets the job of working out whether Tom Bombadil counts as a Maia or not. All the Dwarves, Elves and Men in ME are set to reconstructing the Lamps; this is completed on time and under budget. Feanor keeps the Sun and the Moon as interesting ornaments for his throne room. ------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html -------------------- John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?" |SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show :-------------------------------------------------------------------------) ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Fri, 08 Sep 2000 19:28:58 -0400 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <39B97638.C6CFD5FA@erols.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: AYdCk3YjIuKxjQMqcUpwYU0kOcbSYObJeYnaJlKQxLc= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 2000 03:16:21 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26975 "Christopher M. Jones" wrote: > 9. Frodo accidentally leaves the ring in Bag End and Lobelia > Sackville-Baggins becomes the new dark lord. *ROTFLMAO!* -- -- FotW "Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts." The Letters of JRR Tolkien, #34 ###### From: kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 06:25:03 GMT Organization: http://extra.newsguy.com Lines: 17 Message-ID: <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: p-044.newsdawg.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsxfer.interpacket.net!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!pln-w!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27001 On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 11:12:53 GMT, everett_thiele@my-deja.com wrote: |Anyway, I still wonder about your question: was Faramir less tough |in close combat than Boromir? Somehow Boromir doesn't seem like |the guy to lead hit 'n run commando raids inside enemy territory. |He was more of a line 'em up and have it out kind of guy. Were |the two brothers a brains vs. brawn duo? Masked Man------>I always saw Boromir as the greater of the two brothers, who was also the more tragically flawed. -- Who was that masked man? ###### From: "Morgil" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 19 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 08:39:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 194.142.0.19 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 968488791 194.142.0.19 (Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:39:51 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 11:39:51 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:26987 John Elliott kirjoitti viestissä <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk>... >Tamim wrote: >>7) Feanor gets pissed of watching other people's incompetence. He kills >>Mandos and escapes. He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. > All the Dwarves, Elves and Men in ME are set to reconstructing the Lamps; >this is completed on time and under budget. Feanor keeps the Sun and the >Moon as interesting ornaments for his throne room. And then Morgoth returns as a tiny voice in Feanor´s head, convincing him that everyone is against him. As a result Feanor builds a space-ship, takes off, and nukes Arda from the orbit, because "It´s the only way to be sure". Morgil ###### From: mlindanne@hotmail.com (China Blue Shift) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 04:51:16 -0700 Organization: Collective against Consensual Sanity Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Hello-Kitty: meow meow. X-Should: Prancing green elves on yellow daisy fields. X-Should-not: You're not allowed. X-Newsgroup-Bomb: Crossposted to heck and back. X-Ray-Specs: Off. X-Traneous-Reference: Kibo X-NSA-Bait: wiretap pgp cryptoterrorist rsa des Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!c157.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27087 / >>7) Feanor gets pissed of watching other people's incompetence. He kills / >>Mandos and escapes. He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. / / > All the Dwarves, Elves and Men in ME are set to reconstructing the Lamps; / >this is completed on time and under budget. Feanor keeps the Sun and the / >Moon as interesting ornaments for his throne room. / / And then Morgoth returns as a tiny voice in Feanor´s head, convincing him / that everyone is against him. As a result Feanor builds a space-ship, takes / off, and nukes Arda from the orbit, because "It´s the only way to be sure". Game over. =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Sign up for WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK's special We Rob You While You Sleep Service TODAY! =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity v0.123 pretty pretty http://www.tsoft.com/~wyrmwif/ All new and improved web pages! Bookmark yours today! :)-free zone. Elect LUM World Dictator! ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 13:04:49 -0400 Lines: 41 Message-ID: <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: MEXZbkPgT0jTO3ErbOqUDJB4nxzGdu/QmcFW4iuAq08= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Sep 2000 20:50:21 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27026 Tamim wrote: > He kills Mandos and > escapes. How? He's a spirit, and a mere Elven one. He won't get a body until the end of the world, and he needs help from a Vala to get that. > He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. Who immediately revolt. They are assisted by the Teleri. > He marches to Mordor, and > kills Sauron because he is bored. If he's not killed by Orcs, being an army of one. > he demands allegiance from the Valar (which they gladly give > because they are pussyfooted cowards When Silmarilli fly! > and know that Feanor could run things a bit > more efficiently) If they ever even consider it Eru will whop them all, especially Ulmo for normally having so much sense, and pack them in Mandos. > and takes the high kingship of Arda. And the Teleri lead the Resistance. > Tamim Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight Elbereth Gilthoniel! ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 44 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:14:52 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.44.245 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 968523142 212.151.44.245 (Sat, 09 Sep 2000 20:12:22 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 20:12:22 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27076 Masked Man hath written: >On Fri, 08 Sep 2000 11:12:53 GMT, everett_thiele@my-deja.com wrote: > >|Anyway, I still wonder about your question: was Faramir less tough >|in close combat than Boromir? Somehow Boromir doesn't seem like >|the guy to lead hit 'n run commando raids inside enemy territory. >|He was more of a line 'em up and have it out kind of guy. Were >|the two brothers a brains vs. brawn duo? > >Masked Man------>I always saw Boromir as the greater of the two >brothers, who was also the more tragically flawed. Tolkien did not share your opinion. In Appendix A, "Annals of the Kings and Rulers", he has this to say: "So time drew on to the War of the Ring, and the sons of Denethor grew to manhood. Boromir, five years the elder, beloved by his father, was like him in face and pride, but in little else. Rather he was a man after the sort of King Eärnur of old, taking no wife and delighting chiefly in arms; fearless and strong, but caring little for lore, save the tales of old battles. Faramir the younger was like him in looks but otherwise in mind. He read the hearts of men as shrewdly as his father, but what he read moved him sooner to pity than to scorn, He was gentle in bearing, and a lover of lore and of music, and herefore by many in those days his courage was judged less than his brother's. But it was not so, except that he did not seek glory in danger without a purpose." And further on: "Yet between the brothers there was great love, and had been since childhood, when Boromir was the helper and protector of Faramir. No jealousy or rivalry had arisen between them since, for their father's favour or for the praise of men. It did not seem possible to Faramir that any one in Gondor could rival Boromir, heir of Denetor, Captain of the White Tower; and of like mind was Boromir. Yet it proved otherwise at the test." In other places, Tolkien makes it clear that the creeping contempt for learning and art as "sissy" was a sign of the decadence that had overtaken Gondor. There are also statemnts about what a remarkable feat Faramir achieved when he rallied his men and made them stand up against the Nine. When they finally fell back, it was under pressure from the entire Army of Morgul. Of course the stress of this on Faramir was terrible, and one of the reasons why he ended up in the Houses of Healing; but I do not believe Boromir would have done as well against the Nazgûl as he. Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 28 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 9 Sep 2000 20:20:27 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.44.245 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 968523478 212.151.44.245 (Sat, 09 Sep 2000 20:17:58 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 20:17:58 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!unlisys!news.snafu.de!news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27078 China Blue Shift hath written: >/ >>7) Feanor gets pissed of watching other people's incompetence. He kills >/ >>Mandos and escapes. He takes the ring and the high kingship of the Noldor. >/ >/ > All the Dwarves, Elves and Men in ME are set to reconstructing the Lamps; >/ >this is completed on time and under budget. Feanor keeps the Sun and the >/ >Moon as interesting ornaments for his throne room. >/ >/ And then Morgoth returns as a tiny voice in Feanor´s head, convincing him >/ that everyone is against him. As a result Feanor builds a space-ship, takes >/ off, and nukes Arda from the orbit, because "It´s the only way to be sure". > >Game over. Let's try a new one. Fëanor obeys the ban on returning to Middle-earth and leaves the Dark-Elves and the other Free Peoples to Morgoth's tender mercies. What happens then? Öjevind ###### From: mlindanne@hotmail.com (China Blue Shift) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 13:44:59 -0700 Organization: Collective against Consensual Sanity Lines: 22 Message-ID: References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Hello-Kitty: meow meow. X-Should: Prancing green elves on yellow daisy fields. X-Should-not: You're not allowed. X-Newsgroup-Bomb: Crossposted to heck and back. X-Ray-Specs: Off. X-Traneous-Reference: Kibo X-NSA-Bait: wiretap pgp cryptoterrorist rsa des Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news.he.net!sn-xit-09!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!c186.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27089 / >/ And then Morgoth returns as a tiny voice in Feanor´s head, convincing him / >/ that everyone is against him. As a result Feanor builds a space-ship, / takes / >/ off, and nukes Arda from the orbit, because "It´s the only way to be / sure". / > / >Game over. / / Let's try a new one. Fëanor obeys the ban on returning to Middle-earth and Well, first we have to decide if balrogs were aliens. Aliens had those tubes on their backs that might have been mistaken for wings, as well as that whip-like tail, if you get the point. =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Sign up for WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK's special We Rob You While You Sleep Service TODAY! =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity v0.123 pretty pretty http://www.tsoft.com/~wyrmwif/ All new and improved web pages! Bookmark yours today! :)-free zone. Elect LUM World Dictator! ###### From: Menelvagor Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:05:31 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 22 Message-ID: <8pec71$jur$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.242.228.107 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sat Sep 09 22:05:31 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x59.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 136.242.228.107 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgoldarn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news.tele.dk!128.230.129.106!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27032 In article , "Öjevind Lång" wrote: > In other places, Tolkien makes it clear that the creeping contempt for > learning and art as "sissy" was a sign of the decadence that had overtaken > Gondor. Doesn't Faramir say something to this effect himself? He says the Men of Gondor can scarcely claim any longer the title of High, because they value they value the art of war above learning, like the Rohirrim. That reminds me of another one of Tolien's great lines, where Faramir says he does not value the warrior for his might (or somethinglike that), but that which he defends: and we would not have Gondor feared for its power, but loved for its wisdom. I can't remember the exact words, which is rather killing me because it's so beautifully written. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Morgil" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 09 Sep 2000 22:42:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.213.244.194 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 968539348 212.213.244.194 (Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:42:28 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 01:42:28 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.informatik.uni-muenchen.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27038 Öjevind Lång kirjoitti viestissä ... >Let's try a new one. Fëanor obeys the ban on returning to Middle-earth and >leaves the Dark-Elves and the other Free Peoples to Morgoth's tender >mercies. What happens then? Dragons never appear. Morgoth conquers all Middle-Earth, exept Doriath, and distant parts in South. Eventually Feanor convinces Valar to go to the War Of Wrath 500 years earlier and they will have an easy victory, since Morgoths forces are conciderably smaller, because he doesn´t have any real enemies. There will be no Numenor and no Edain, since all Free Men have escaped to South. Oh, and Dwarves stay at their Mountain homes and don´t get along with anyone. Only real question would be who gets the Silmarils... Morgil ###### From: pedwards@dmapub.dma.org (Phil Edwards) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: 9 Sep 2000 21:36:31 -0400 Organization: $home is where the core is Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8peoiv$dlr$1@dmapub.dma.org> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <968454702.26492.0.nnrp-12.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> X-Why-No-Archive: well, do /you/ think it's worth the diskspace? NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.115.68.80 X-Trace: 9 Sep 2000 21:38:41 -0400, 209.115.68.80 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-feed.fnsi.net!athena.netset.com!localhost!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27036 John Elliott wrote: + Tulkas doesn't come back for centuries + because he gets the job of working out whether Tom Bombadil counts as a + Maia or not. Every few decades he posts a message to arda.misc asking for other people's opinions, and offering possible alternative axplanations for Bombadils' presence. Narvi, having tired of building large Doors and turning to network administration in his spare time, eventually gets fed up and kicks his ass. ###### Lines: 20 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: pbachjson@aol.compart (PaulB) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 10 Sep 2000 05:02:10 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000910010210.18852.00000879@nso-fw.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27066 In article , "Öjevind Lång" writes: >Let's try a new one. Fëanor obeys the ban on returning to Middle-earth and >leaves the Dark-Elves and the other Free Peoples to Morgoth's tender >mercies. What happens then? > >Öjevind > > My favourite "what if...?" is: What if Túrin saved Finduilas? "And this last I say to thee: she alone stands between thee and thy doom. If thou fail her, it shall not fail to find thee." Makes me wonder how _this_ union between Elves and Men would skew the events that followed. PaulB "Everything and anything about a culture can be inferred fom the shape of its language..." — Jubal Harshaw ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> <8pec71$jur$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 21 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:41:10 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.27.104 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 968589670 12.79.27.104 (Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:41:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 12:41:10 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.19!wnmasters2!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27050 "Menelvagor" wrote in message news:8pec71$jur$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > That reminds me of another one of Tolien's great lines, where > Faramir says he does not value the warrior for his might (or > somethinglike that), but that which he defends: and we would not > have Gondor feared for its power, but loved for its wisdom. I > can't remember the exact words, which is rather killing me > because it's so beautifully written. "War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of Numenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, her beauty, and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may fear the dignity of a man, old and wise." TT, The Window on the West ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 08:55:19 -0400 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <39BB84B3.3B708C98@erols.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: MWeGyZPbAGS8ypREt97HeOPeIfysC0nh+e1Oh/gS0bY= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 10 Sep 2000 13:23:24 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news-stu1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!news.tele.dk!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27022 "Öjevind Lång" wrote: > It did not seem possible to Faramir that > any one in Gondor could rival Boromir, heir of Denetor, Captain of the White > Tower; and of like mind was Boromir. LOL! In other words, "Faramir thought Boromir was the greatest, and Boromir agreed." That's great. I'd missed that. -- -- FotW "Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts." The Letters of JRR Tolkien, #34 ###### From: mnkohrz@gateway.net (Mnkohrz) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 12 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.gateway.net X-Admin: news@gateway.net Date: 10 Sep 2000 19:00:48 GMT References: Organization: http://www.compuserve.com Message-ID: <20000910150048.28708.00000322@ng-ff1.news.gateway.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!news.uni-stuttgart.de!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27207 >Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read >"Flame of the West" wrote: >> 4. Aragorn decides at Bree that the Quest is far too important to be left to a bunch of stupid incompetent hobbits, and takes the Ring and sets off himself for Mordor, having zany adventures with his sidekick, a talking fox from the Shire. Am I the only one who has a mental image of Disney's animated "Robin Hood" as the zany talking fox? :) ###### From: Menelvagor Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 19:57:07 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8pgp2b$4qm$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <8pahjc$aua$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bcc62d.28020562@enews.newsguy.com> <8pec71$jur$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.91.34.72 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Sep 10 19:57:07 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x72.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 198.91.34.72 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgoldarn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27120 In article , "Conrad Dunkerson" wrote: > > > "War must be, while we defend our lives against a destroyer who > would devour all; but I do not love the bright sword for its > sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his > glory. I love only that which they defend: the city of the Men of > Numenor; and I would have her loved for her memory, her ancientry, > her beauty, and her present wisdom. Not feared, save as men may > fear the dignity of a man, old and wise." > TT, The Window on the West > > Thanks for reminding me how well Tolkien could write. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Menelvagor Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 20:14:12 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 48 Message-ID: <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.91.34.72 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Sep 10 20:14:12 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.08 [en] (Win95; I ;Nav) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 x54.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 198.91.34.72 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgoldarn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!oleane.net!oleane!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27111 These are hilarious; I especially like Galadriel and Gimli, Sam the revolutionary leader, Aragorn and the talking fox, "Members of the newsgroup disagree with her" (Galadriel), "horrible half-Orc half-Hobbit creature," Lobelia as dark lord (or lady?). My own list is as follows: 10.Gandalf seizes the Ring from Frodo, who must get it back before he can carry out his mission. 9.Frodo makes passionate love to Goldberry, Aragorn gets it on with Eowyn. (Another possibility: Eowyn is Arwen in a clever disguise?) 8.The company consists of Frodo, Sam, Gandalf, Aragorn, Boromir, Gimli, Arwen, Galadriel and Eowyn; but there still aren't enough women. Having dispatched Gimli, Frodo and Gandalf have it out over Galadriel. Can Frodo use the Ring to defeat Gandalf and get the girl? 7.Saruman and Gandalf decide to resolve their differences through a Middle-earth-wide election. Saruman wins thanks to Lotho's campaign contributions. 6.Tom Bombadil goes to Rohan and takes poetry lessons before the Hobbits meet him. 5.Pipsqueak seizes the Ring and turns ME into a giant playpen. 4.After the Battle of Baywater and all that, the hobbits realize that their system of "government" is idiotic and unworkable, and institute radical reforms. The resulting state is not, however, named the Union of Soviet Socialist Farthings. (Remember the line form Bored of the Rings? "They had a system of government that would be considered unusually rudimentary in a colony of [...] clams.") 3.The pipeweed industry refuses to fund Frodo's "Red Book of Westmarch" project. He leaves out all the pro-smoking stuff. The section of the Prologue, "Concerning Pipeweed," is replaced by "Concerning Soft Drinks." 2.The story is told from the point of view of the Dunlendings. 1.Frodo becomes the Ringlord and collects an enormous harem. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000910150048.28708.00000322@ng-ff1.news.gateway.net> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 21 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:27:25 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.35.191 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 968617496 212.151.35.191 (Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:24:56 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 10 Sep 2000 22:24:56 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!machtgarnix.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news0.de.colt.net!colt.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!news.tele.dk!194.213.69.151!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27184 Mnkohrz hath written: [snip] >>"Flame of the West" wrote: >>> 4. Aragorn decides at Bree that the Quest is far too important to be left >to a bunch of stupid incompetent hobbits, and takes the Ring and sets off >himself for Mordor, having zany adventures with his sidekick, a talking fox >from the Shire. > > Am I the only one who has a mental image of Disney's animated "Robin Hood" as >the zany talking fox? :) Or shades of "Who Framed Frodo Baggins?" Öjevind ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: tbarrie@cs.toronto.edu (Trevor Barrie) Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read X-Nntp-Posting-Host: dvp.cs.toronto.edu Message-ID: <2000Sep10.220054.29831@jarvis.cs.toronto.edu> Organization: CSLab, University of Toronto References: <20000910150048.28708.00000322@ng-ff1.news.gateway.net> Date: 11 Sep 2000 02:00:54 GMT Lines: 14 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!torn!utnut!utcsri!cs.toronto.edu!tbarrie Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27193 In article <20000910150048.28708.00000322@ng-ff1.news.gateway.net>, Mnkohrz wrote: >>> 4. Aragorn decides at Bree that the Quest is far too important to be left >to a bunch of stupid incompetent hobbits, and takes the Ring and sets off >himself for Mordor, having zany adventures with his sidekick, a talking fox >from the Shire. > > Am I the only one who has a mental image of Disney's animated "Robin Hood" >as the zany talking fox? :) Not any more. ###### From: "Morgil" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Lines: 59 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 16:11:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.213.248.141 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 968688661 212.213.248.141 (Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:11:01 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:11:01 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!blackbush.xlink.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!EU.net!Norway.EU.net!uio.no!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27133 Menelvagor kirjoitti viestissä <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... > >My own list is as follows: > >9.Frodo makes passionate love to Goldberry, Aragorn gets it on with >Eowyn. (Another possibility: Eowyn is Arwen in a clever disguise?) > E-TEXT ALERT! E-TEXT ALERT! >3.The pipeweed industry refuses to fund Frodo's "Red Book of Westmarch" >project. He leaves out all the pro-smoking stuff. The section of the >Prologue, "Concerning Pipeweed," is replaced by "Concerning Soft >Drinks." LOL! "Even the dunedain of Gondor give us one credit: We were the first ones to put it in the Bottle. Not even Wizards thought of this..." OK. Here´s my list. 1: Bombadil agrees to take the Ring for safekeeping when "all the Free People" ask him to, but at last moment one guy changes his mind... 2: Gandalf and Elrond decide to let Galadriel use the Ring to defeat Sauron, in convince that they can easily deal with her afterwards "cos´ she´s just a girl". 3: Eowyn stays at home, and the Witchking is not destroyed. Nobody notices the difference. 4: Talking Fox steals the Ring from sleeping Frodo. It becomes the Lord of the beasts, and animals take over ME. 5: Faramir joins the Fellowship instead of Boromir, and he is so nice that everyone agrees to go to Minas Tirith with him, only there realizing what an asshole his father is. 6: Most of King Elessar´s army refuses to go beyond Ithilien, when they realize their incurance policies are not valid abroad. 7: Aragorn had a short affair with Theodwyn, first time he was in Rohan. Eomer turns out to be his son. He acts like Dr. Evil´s son Scott in the movie Austin Powers. 8: Gandalf returns from death as a sarcastic, alcoholic womanizer, and demands to be called "Belgandalf". 9: When his son dies of throatcancer, King Elessar prohibits the use of pipeweed in his Kingdom. The great crime syndicates of Shire are founded... 10: I run out of ideas... Morgil ###### Lines: 41 X-Admin: news@aol.com From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Date: 11 Sep 2000 16:50:47 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Message-ID: <20000911125047.07920.00002927@nso-fi.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!208.184.7.66!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27158 I always thought that making a major character have Tourette's Syndrome would be hysterical. I think it would be great in the e-text. I think Aragorn with Tourette's would make sense. He kept remarkably quiet in the confrontations with Saruman and the Mouth of Sauron. I'd love a scene like this: The Messenger rode out. Now halting a few paces before the Captains of the West he looked them up and down and laughed. 'Is there any one in this rout with authority to treat with me?" he asked. 'Or indeed with wit to understand me? Not thou at least!' he mocked, turing to Aragorn with scorn. Aragorn said naught in answer but he took the other's eye and held it, and for a moment they strove thus; but soon Aragorn's left eye began twitching and a little driblet of spittle escaped the corner of his mouth and he began, in a high pitch, to exclaim, "F**k! Shi*! Bleep! Bleep!" The Captains of the West suddenly found the tops of the shoes quite interesting. Pippin began to whistle a little diddy he learned at the Green Dragon. The Messenger stared with his mouth agape. Gandalf recovering, cleared his throat and said, "Anywho...we were discussing our withdrawal." or the scene with Aragorn, Eomer and Imrahil after the Battle of Pellenor Fields: Aragorn spoke, "Men shall pitch my tents upon the field, and here I will await the welcome of the Lord of the City." But Eomer said:'Already you have raised the banner of the kings and displayed the tokens of Elendil's house. Will you suffer these to be challenged." 'No,' said Aragorn. 'but I deem the time unripe; and I have no mind for strife except with our Enemy and his servants." And the Prince Imrahil said: 'You words Lord and wise. Yet I would not have you remain like a begger at the door. 'Not a beggar' said Aragorn. 'Say a captain of the...crap!...sh**...dammit!...fart!." Aragorn's face twitched uncontrollably. Eomer and Imrahil looked at eachother. Eomer stated: 'Yeah, perhaps it's better to wait." Russ ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: Europa From: ronc@pacifier.com (Ron Christian) NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.65.131.1 Message-ID: <39bd2718$1_1@news.nwlink.com> Date: 11 Sep 2000 11:40:24 -0700 X-Trace: 11 Sep 2000 11:40:24 -0700, 216.65.131.1 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!xfer13.netnews.com!netnews.com!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.nwlink.com!news.nwlink.com!ronc Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27124 In article <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Menelvagor wrote: >7.Saruman and Gandalf decide to resolve their differences through a >Middle-earth-wide election. Saruman wins thanks to Lotho's campaign >contributions. Saruman and Gandalf decides to resolve their differences by the best-of-three bouts of naked jello wrestling. The event is so revolting that no one cares who wins. Pippin suggests that the event should have been between Gladriel and Shelob. The company stuffs Pippin in a sack and beat the living hell out of him while screaming "Applesauce! Applesauce!". The rest discover that Gimli is a compulsive exhibitionist. They finally get sick of it and toss his sleeping bag into the river in the middle of the night. Frodo touches the Mirror of Gladriel and gets sucked into another dimension. Alternately, Frodo touches the Mirror of Gladriel and it eats his face off. Ron -- [www.europa.com/~ronc] "CBS's 'Big Brother' is every bit as real as the WWF championships." ###### From: jce@seasip.demon.co.uk (John Elliott) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Mon, 11 Sep 2000 19:43:19 Message-ID: <968701550.19520.0.nnrp-09.c2de7091@news.demon.co.uk> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <39bd2718$1_1@news.nwlink.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: seasip.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: seasip.demon.co.uk:194.222.112.145 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 968701550 nnrp-09:19520 NO-IDENT seasip.demon.co.uk:194.222.112.145 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: skim 0.8.4 Lines: 17 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!btnet-peer1!btnet-peer0!btnet!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!seasip.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27209 This one isn't mine; it was posted on r.a.b.t. some years ago, as I recall: * Gandalf takes one look at the Ring inscription, grabs both the Ring and Frodo, rides at full speed for the Havens, sails to the Undying Lands, and confronts Eonwe for his incompetence in letting Sauron get away at the end of the First Age. Eonwe tries the argument about the Ring belonging for good or ill to Middle-Earth, but Gandalf retorts that if he, Eonwe, had done his job properly in the first place, the Ring wouldn't exist at all. The Valar are finally persuaded, advance in force on Mordor, and blow it to pieces, unfortunately destroying most of Gondor, Rohan and Harad in the process. ------------- http://www.seasip.demon.co.uk/index.html -------------------- John Elliott |BLOODNOK: "But why have you got such a long face?" |SEAGOON: "Heavy dentures, Sir!" - The Goon Show :-------------------------------------------------------------------------) ###### From: Menelvagor Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: Tue, 12 Sep 2000 00:36:51 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 71 Message-ID: <8pjtr1$q27$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 136.242.228.107 X-Article-Creation-Date: Tue Sep 12 00:36:51 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.5; Windows NT 5.0) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x58.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 136.242.228.107 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDgoldarn Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27115 In article , "Morgil" wrote: > > "Even the dunedain of Gondor give us one credit: We were the first > ones to put it in the Bottle. Not even Wizards thought of this..." > Pretty funny! > OK. Here´s my list. > > 1: Bombadil agrees to take the Ring for safekeeping when "all the Free > People" ask him to, but at last moment one guy changes his mind... > > 2: Gandalf and Elrond decide to let Galadriel use the Ring to defeat Sauron, > in convince that they can easily deal with her afterwards "cos´ she´s just a > girl". Wise fools. > 3: Eowyn stays at home, and the Witchking is not destroyed. Nobody notices > the difference. > > 4: Talking Fox steals the Ring from sleeping Frodo. It becomes the Lord of > the > beasts, and animals take over ME. > > 5: Faramir joins the Fellowship instead of Boromir, and he is so nice that > everyone agrees to go to Minas Tirith with him, only there realizing what an > asshole his father is. > > 6: Most of King Elessar´s army refuses to go beyond Ithilien, when they > realize > their incurance policies are not valid abroad. > > 7: Aragorn had a short affair with Theodwyn, first time he was in Rohan. > Eomer turns out to be his son. He acts like Dr. Evil´s son Scott in the > movie > Austin Powers. > > 8: Gandalf returns from death as a sarcastic, alcoholic womanizer, and > demands to be called "Belgandalf". > > 9: When his son dies of throatcancer, King Elessar prohibits the use of > pipeweed in his Kingdom. The great crime syndicates of Shire are founded... Led by Morrie? > 10: I run out of ideas... > > Morgil > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: I.J.Bush@dl.ac.uk (Ian Bush) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Top 10 Variations I'd Love to Read Date: 12 Sep 2000 09:56:13 GMT Organization: Daresbury Laboratory, Warrington, U.K. Lines: 27 Message-ID: <8pkujt$nmr$1@mserv2.dl.ac.uk> References: <20000907234708.23342.00000144@ng-cb1.news.gateway.net> <39B96430.7ED956FB@helsinki.fi> <39BA6D94.F45D4C69@erols.com> <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tci23.dl.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii X-Trace: mserv2.dl.ac.uk 968752573 24283 193.62.112.30 (12 Sep 2000 09:56:13 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@dl.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 12 Sep 2000 09:56:13 GMT X-Newsreader: knews 1.0b.1 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.icl.net!ldn-newsfeed.speedport.net!newsfeed.speedport.net!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!nntp.news.xara.net!xara.net!gxn.net!ifl.net!peernews.mcc.ac.uk!daresbury!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:27266 In article <8pgq26$62t$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, Menelvagor writes: > > 3.The pipeweed industry refuses to fund Frodo's "Red Book of Westmarch" > project. He leaves out all the pro-smoking stuff. The section of the > Prologue, "Concerning Pipeweed," is replaced by "Concerning Soft > Drinks." > In retaliation the other three farthings increase the tariffs on pipeweed and refuse the right for pipeweed plantation owners to transport their serfs across non-south farthing territory. Further the mayor enacts a resolution outlawing serfdom in any of the new territories obtained after the war of the ring, though this is contraversially ajugded unconstitutional by the head of the shiriffs, a loyal south farthing man. Tensions increase between the south and the rest of the farthings and ultimately the election of Sam as mayor on a ticket of equal rights for all hobbits and the abolition of the bourgeoisie ruling class is the last straw. South farthing declares itself independent thus preticipating the slaughter known as the war between the farthings. Ian