From: "Matthew Harris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Athelas: What was it? Lines: 8 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 3 Aug 2000 22:43:27 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.161.84.137 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 965368295 216.161.84.137 (Fri, 04 Aug 2000 00:51:35 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 00:51:35 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25117 With a few exceptions, such as the two trees, almost every plant mentioned in Tolkien is a plant that exists in our world. In fact, most of the mythological associations and entymologies of plant names are the same in Middle Earth as they are in European cultures. So the question is, what type of plant is the Athelas? Is there any plant that matches the habits of the Athelas, and has a folklore of similiar magical powers? ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 13:18:01 +0300 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 12 Message-ID: <8me5b5$cle$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-p043.otenet.gr X-Trace: newssrv.otenet.gr 965384357 12974 212.205.253.43 (4 Aug 2000 10:19:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2000 10:19:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!unlisys!news.snafu.de!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!uninett.no!newsfeed1.enitel.no!masternews.telia.net!news-sto.telia.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25110 Matthew Harris wrote in message news:HRsi5.956$GK.468591@news.uswest.net... > With a few exceptions, such as the two trees, almost every plant mentioned > in Tolkien is a plant that exists in our world. I disagree. There's the mallorn, for example. There's the elanor and the niphredil. I believe that Athelas is likewise an imaginary plant. Aris katsaris ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 09:41:44 -0400 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 21 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.79.ce.f1 X-Server-Date: 4 Aug 2000 13:39:58 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25166 Matthew Harris wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >So the question is, what type >of plant is the Athelas? Is there any plant that matches the habits of the >Athelas, and has a folklore of similiar magical powers? I always think of it as a now-extinct relative of laurel (bay leaf). If you drop bay leaves in boiling water, they have a pleasant refreshing smell. And that is true of dried ones too, though of course fresh is better (as with athelas). Remember that there is a Valinorean word for the athelas, so possibly it was a gift of the Elves to Numenor, brought over with the other heirlooms by Elendil and his sons. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 09:26:03 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 23 Message-ID: <1hrlos8mld9ugnvae42p97himteq09l9jn@4ax.com> References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!news-hog.berkeley.edu!ucberkeley!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25173 On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:01:50 -0700, "Jim" wrote: > >There are many plants with very real therapuetic powers that have a place in >folklore. >Wether /Athelas/ has a magical or pharmaceutical method of action is an >interesting debate (esp considering Stans comments above) >The active ingredient could be an aspirin type drug (aspirin is found in >some plant that I forget the name of) Willow bark. > because those under the black breath >have a fever (well I definetley remember that Faramir did at least) and this >would reduce thier high temperature. >If you were to argue the magic plant side you could say that the Black >Breath is magical in nature, and so the cure needs to be magical too. > the softrat mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- A child of five could understand this! Fetch me a child of five. ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:01:50 -0700 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-152.indium.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 965404436 24464 62.136.40.152 (4 Aug 2000 15:53:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Aug 2000 15:53:56 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25134 Matthew Harris wrote in message ... >With a few exceptions, such as the two trees, almost every plant mentioned >in Tolkien is a plant that exists in our world. In fact, most of the >mythological associations and entymologies of plant names are the same in >Middle Earth as they are in European cultures. So the question is, what type >of plant is the Athelas? Is there any plant that matches the habits of the >Athelas, and has a folklore of similiar magical powers? There are many plants with very real therapuetic powers that have a place in folklore. Wether /Athelas/ has a magical or pharmaceutical method of action is an interesting debate (esp considering Stans comments above) The active ingredient could be an aspirin type drug (aspirin is found in some plant that I forget the name of) because those under the black breath have a fever (well I definetley remember that Faramir did at least) and this would reduce thier high temperature. If you were to argue the magic plant side you could say that the Black Breath is magical in nature, and so the cure needs to be magical too. Jim D ###### From: "j.jones" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 20:37:57 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 62.60.5.73 X-Trace: news-1.opaltelecom.net 965494191 62.60.5.73 (Sat, 05 Aug 2000 17:49:51 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 17:49:51 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!nntp-relay.ihug.net!ihug.co.nz!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!news-1.opaltelecom.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25231 Jim wrote in message news:8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk... ) > The active ingredient could be an aspirin type drug (aspirin is found in > some plant that I forget the name of) because those under the black breath > have a fever (well I definetley remember that Faramir did at least) and this > would reduce thier high temperature. Faramir had fever from blood poisoning - he had been shot by an arrow (probably dirty). -- John Jones Birmingham, England ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ###### From: "Andrew Durdin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <1hrlos8mld9ugnvae42p97himteq09l9jn@4ax.com> Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Sat, 5 Aug 2000 10:50:48 +1000 Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 NNTP-Posting-Host: delta.tavultesoft.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: delta.tavultesoft.com Message-ID: <398b651d@casper.southcom.com.au> X-Trace: 5 Aug 2000 00:51:41 GMT, delta.tavultesoft.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.labyrinth.net.au!casper.southcom.com.au!delta.tavultesoft.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25211 the softrat wrote in message news:1hrlos8mld9ugnvae42p97himteq09l9jn@4ax.com... > On Fri, 4 Aug 2000 17:01:50 -0700, "Jim" > wrote: > > > >The active ingredient could be an aspirin type drug (aspirin is found in > >some plant that I forget the name of) > > Willow bark. Then Old Man Willow ought to have had healing powers, too . ###### From: "Matthew Harris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <1hrlos8mld9ugnvae42p97himteq09l9jn@4ax.com> <398b651d@casper.southcom.com.au> Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Lines: 14 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Aug 2000 21:06:16 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.161.82.149 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 965448863 216.161.82.149 (Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:14:23 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 04 Aug 2000 23:14:23 CDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25223 >> Willow bark. > >Then Old Man Willow ought to have had healing powers, too . > Actually, when I said in my original post that most of the plants mentioned in Tolkien had similiar mythologies to earth mythologies, the willow was one of the plants I had in mind. The willow symbolizes captivity...Psalm 137: "By the rivers of Babylon, there we layed down and hung our harps upon the willows. ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Message-ID: References: <8me5b5$cle$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 16 Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 21:48:38 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.208 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 965512118 208.170.95.208 (Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:48:38 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 16:48:38 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newspush.brussels1.eu.level3.net!level3eu!newsfeed.online.be!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25296 In article <8me5b5$cle$1@newssrv.otenet.gr>, "Aris Katsaris" wrote: > Matthew Harris wrote in message > news:HRsi5.956$GK.468591@news.uswest.net... > > With a few exceptions, such as the two trees, almost every plant mentioned > > in Tolkien is a plant that exists in our world. > > I disagree. There's the mallorn, for example. There's the elanor and > the niphredil. I believe that Athelas is likewise an imaginary plant. The mallorn is a relative of the beech (Fagus), Elanor is an extinct species of pimpernel (Anagallis), and niphredil is a snowdrop (Galanthus). Athelas presumably has its real counterpart as well. DS ###### From: mlindanne@hotmail.com (China Black & Blue) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Sat, 05 Aug 2000 15:03:59 -0700 Organization: Collective against Consensual Sanity Lines: 13 Message-ID: References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Hello-Kitty: meow meow. X-Should: Prancing green elves on yellow daisy fields. X-Should-not: You're not allowed. X-Newsgroup-Bomb: Crossposted to heck and back. X-Ray-Specs: Off. X-Traneous-Reference: Kibo X-NSA-Bait: wiretap pgp cryptoterrorist rsa des Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!c159.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25290 / Faramir had fever from blood poisoning - he had been shot by an arrow / (probably dirty). The leaves had penicillin mold on them? =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= Sign up for WASHINGTON MUTUAL BANK's special We Rob You While You Sleep Service TODAY! =*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*=*= CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity v0.123 Now a text site map http://www.tsoft.com/~wyrmwif/cacs/ pretty? http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/5079/ :)-free zone. Elect LUM World Dictator! ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Lines: 31 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 15:15:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.72.85 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 965574940 12.78.72.85 (Sun, 06 Aug 2000 15:15:40 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 06 Aug 2000 15:15:40 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!xfer13.netnews.com!xfe11.netnews.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25272 "Stan Brown" wrote in message news:MPG.13f4922274172f2398b534@news.mindspring.com... > Remember that there is a Valinorean word for the athelas asea aranion > so possibly it was a gift of the Elves to Numenor, brought over > with the other heirlooms by Elendil and his sons. It apparently grew in Beleriand; "Then Huan came and bore a leaf, of all the herbs of healing chief..." LoB, The Lay of Leithian - 3118 The note for 3119 says; "Against this line my father wrote in the margin of the B-text the word athelas." Still, Aragorn says that it was brought from Numenor; "It is fortunate that I could find it, for it is a healing plant that the Men of the West brought to Middle-earth. Athelas they named it, and it grows now sparsely and only near places where they dwelt or camped of old; and it is not known in the North, except to some of those who wander in the Wild." FotR, Flight to the Ford ###### Reply-To: "Wolfman" From: "Wolfman" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Sun, 6 Aug 2000 22:22:21 +0100 Lines: 35 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4133.2400 NNTP-Posting-Host: da151d220.dialup.callnet0800.com X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: da151d220.dialup.callnet0800.com Message-ID: <398dd79c@eeyore.callnetuk.com> X-Trace: 6 Aug 2000 22:24:44 GMT, da151d220.dialup.callnet0800.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!peernews!peer.cwci.net!eeyore.callnetuk.com!da151d220.dialup.callnet0800.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25345 The Willow tree supplied us with aspirin. -- Blessings Wolfman In Wildness is the Preservation of the Earth. "Jim" wrote in message news:8meouk$nsg$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk... > > Matthew Harris wrote in message ... > >With a few exceptions, such as the two trees, almost every plant mentioned > >in Tolkien is a plant that exists in our world. In fact, most of the > >mythological associations and entymologies of plant names are the same in > >Middle Earth as they are in European cultures. So the question is, what > type > >of plant is the Athelas? Is there any plant that matches the habits of the > >Athelas, and has a folklore of similiar magical powers? > > > There are many plants with very real therapuetic powers that have a place in > folklore. > Wether /Athelas/ has a magical or pharmaceutical method of action is an > interesting debate (esp considering Stans comments above) > The active ingredient could be an aspirin type drug (aspirin is found in > some plant that I forget the name of) because those under the black breath > have a fever (well I definetley remember that Faramir did at least) and this > would reduce thier high temperature. > If you were to argue the magic plant side you could say that the Black > Breath is magical in nature, and so the cure needs to be magical too. > > Jim D ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Thu, 10 Aug 2000 16:39:29 -0400 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.79.ce.14 X-Server-Date: 10 Aug 2000 20:40:34 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!xfer13.netnews.com!xfe11.netnews.com!netnews.com!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25542 Conrad Dunkerson wrote in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >It apparently grew in Beleriand; > >"Then Huan came and bore a leaf, >of all the herbs of healing chief..." >LoB, The Lay of Leithian - 3118 > >The note for 3119 says; >"Against this line my father wrote in the margin of the B-text the >word athelas." >Still, Aragorn says that it was brought from Numenor; Ah, well spotted. But when Beleriand drowned, was there any athelas left in the rest of Middle-earth, or did new plants have to be brought to Numenor from Aman? We may never know. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA http://oakroadsystems.com Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm more FAQs: http://oakroadsystems.com/tech/faqget.htm ###### From: "Andrew Clark" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Athelas: What was it? Date: Fri, 11 Aug 2000 23:51:00 +0100 Organization: Customer of Energis Squared Lines: 14 Message-ID: <8n21n8$pr1$5@news8.svr.pol.co.uk> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-214.silicon.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news8.svr.pol.co.uk 966036008 26465 62.136.13.214 (11 Aug 2000 23:20:08 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 11 Aug 2000 23:20:08 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:25580 Stan Brown wrote > Ah, well spotted. But when Beleriand drowned, was there any athelas > left in the rest of Middle-earth, or did new plants have to be > brought to Numenor from Aman? The herb lore of Gondor spoke of Athelas growing wild as a weed in the southern provinces, so I'd think that it was more likely to have been brought to ME from Numenor.