Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Weapon weight (was Re: PJ's LOTR - Reasons ...) Date: 20 Jul 2000 22:45:19 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 49 Message-ID: <6uog3sh6ow.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8l1gj3$hch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l1qrg$f4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8l3s7e$ast$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <8l5fv7$ilt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 964125920 579 10.0.3.2 (20 Jul 2000 20:45:20 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jul 2000 20:45:20 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23962 jabbakie@my-deja.com writes: > In article <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr>, > "Aris Katsaris" wrote: > > > > wrote in message > > > always dismiss the female heroes when they came to join me in the > > > RPG's - kill me, this is the one I am - I don't think women should > lead > > > armies - I barely allow them to fight by my side).Not to mention the > > > changes in the text that involves and how much Frodo and the Ring > will > > > fall on the second plan. > > > > God, you must have really hated Eowyn... > No,I like her part, it's just that I cannot imagine very well a > beautiful woman handling a 20 kilograms sword with one hand and a 30 > kilograms shield with the other, Huh? Where do you get such weights from? An average sword (just blade, handle ignored) is about: 110 cm (normal 1 hand sword length) x 5 cm (wide, ignoring tapering at point) x 0.5 cm (thick, ignoring taper at side) x 7.6 kg/cm^3 (normal iron) = ca 2kg. For taper subtract about 10-20%, for an handle add about 1/2 - 1 kg, depending on the amount of counterbalance desired. Actually 5 cm might be an over-average wide swort. I would expect to find swords in the 1 - 5 kg (short sword - large 2 hander) range. An entire 1400s full body suit of armor is about 30 kg (according to an museum guard I once asked). Make an shield 2 - 5 kg (small hand shield - big shield). > Not that I would be able to do that:-) Nor would real ancient or medieval fighters have been able to. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### From: darat9999@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Weapon weight (was Re: PJ's LOTR - Reasons ...) Date: Fri, 21 Jul 2000 15:11:09 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8l1gj3$hch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l1qrg$f4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8l3s7e$ast$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <8l5fv7$ilt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <6uog3sh6ow.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.114.124.191 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jul 21 15:11:09 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x59.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 162.114.124.191 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdarat9999 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.tesion.net!news.belwue.de!informatik.tu-muenchen.de!news.csl-gmbh.net!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!4.1.16.34!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23988 Neil quote: "Huh? Where do you get such weights from? An average sword (just blade, handle ignored) is about: 110 cm (normal 1 hand sword length) x 5 cm (wide, ignoring tapering at point) x 0.5 cm (thick, ignoring taper at side) x 7.6 kg/cm^3 (normal iron) = ca 2kg." (snip remainder) Dear Neil, Good work!! I was going to gig him myself on that, but you beat me to the punch. I mean Conan would get a hernia trying to lug around a 20 kilo sword! See Ya, Paul Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: jabbakie@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Weapon weight (was Re: PJ's LOTR - Reasons ...) Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 08:26:23 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 45 Message-ID: <8lea7a$hl0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8l1gj3$hch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l1qrg$f4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8l3s7e$ast$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <8l5fv7$ilt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <6uog3sh6ow.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 193.230.233.1 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jul 23 08:26:23 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.0 LS, 1.0 main.datagroup.ro:1080 (Squid/2.2.STABLE4), 1.0 x64.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 10.0.1.2, 193.230.233.1 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDjabbakie Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:24183 In article <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, darat9999@my-deja.com wrote: > Neil quote: "Huh? Where do you get such weights from? An average > sword (just blade, handle ignored) is about: 110 cm (normal 1 hand > sword length) x 5 cm (wide, ignoring tapering at point) x 0.5 cm > (thick, ignoring taper at side) x 7.6 kg/cm^3 (normal iron) = ca 2kg." > > (snip remainder) > > Dear Neil, > > Good work!! I was going to gig him myself on that, but you beat me > to the punch. I mean Conan would get a hernia trying to lug around a > 20 kilo sword! > > See Ya, > > Paul > > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy. > Well, you all may be right.Fact is that I have myself a German-made Middle Age short broad sword , not a high class one, rather a peasantly one, the kinf that Brueghel's merchant were carrying on their bussines trips...Its blade is 40 cm long and 9 cm wide and it weights 3 kg.How much will than weight a two handed sword 1.5 m long?How about a fantasy world sword that can be larger than life? Jabba P.S. I know you are actually right, because I have tried different kinds of swords, and the more recent the more lighter they are.The hevaiest I have found was a french Husar sword from 1830 that weights 4 kg.Stilll I think I could be (under extreme circumstances) right too. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: "Dany Belinfante" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8l1gj3$hch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l1qrg$f4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8l3s7e$ast$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <8l5fv7$ilt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <6uog3sh6ow.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8lea7a$hl0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Weapon weight (was Re: PJ's LOTR - Reasons ...) Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 14:46:31 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 213.35.149.151 X-Complaints-To: abuse@zonnet.nl X-Trace: zonnet-reader-1 964375516 213.35.149.151 (Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:05:16 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 23 Jul 2000 20:05:16 MET DST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!news-feed1.eu.concert.net!zonnet-feed!zonnet-reader-1.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:24205 schreef in berichtnieuws 8lea7a$hl0 > P.S. I know you are actually right, because I have tried different > kinds of swords, and the more recent the more lighter they are.The > hevaiest I have found was a french Husar sword from 1830 that weights 4 > kg.Stilll I think I could be (under extreme circumstances) right too. I would imagine a Scottish Claymore would be a lot heavier than 4 kgs? Dany ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Weapon weight (was Re: PJ's LOTR - Reasons ...) Date: 23 Jul 2000 23:23:08 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 62 Message-ID: <6u66pwh77n.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <8l1gj3$hch$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l1qrg$f4i$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8l3s7e$ast$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8l4jdk$h4b$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <8l5fv7$ilt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <6uog3sh6ow.fsf_-_@chonsp.franklin.ch> <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com><8lea7a$hl0$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 964387388 1174 10.0.3.2 (23 Jul 2000 21:23:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jul 2000 21:23:08 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:24274 jabbakie@my-deja.com writes: > In article <8l9p60$fal$1@nnrp1.deja.com>, > darat9999@my-deja.com wrote: > > Neil quote: "Huh? Where do you get such weights from? An average > > sword (just blade, handle ignored) is about: 110 cm (normal 1 hand > > sword length) x 5 cm (wide, ignoring tapering at point) x 0.5 cm > > (thick, ignoring taper at side) x 7.6 kg/cm^3 (normal iron) = ca 2kg." > > > > Good work!! I was going to gig him myself on that, but you beat me > > to the punch. I mean Conan would get a hernia trying to lug around a > > 20 kilo sword! Lugging around? Just try swinging 20kg at an opponent and then get catapulted away after missing target (opponent got out of the way in all the time spent accelerating it). Crash! > trips...Its blade is 40 cm long and 9 cm wide and it weights 3 kg.How Unusual measurements 40cm and 9cm. I know you said short an broad. But ist this without typo? I calculate 1.4kg for those dimensions (assuming 0.5cm thickness). > much will than weight a two handed sword 1.5 m long?How about a > fantasy world sword that can be larger than life? The fantasy swords I have seen (and held one once, about 4 months ago) were in the 1.5m long, 5-6cm wide range. That would make 3-5kg. Possible _just_ still an usable weight for an well-trained professional fighter. But I think they may be an pure show artifact without consideration of what would be usable. I definitely would not want to fight [1] with anything above 2kg. Actually I would prefer 1.5kg over that, if I had the choice. [1] I do LARP (Life Action Roleplaying, sort of medieval recreationism, but with fantasy as background instead of history). Bad that archery is not possible (due to danger), as I am far better in that (using an self-made 50lb 1.9m longbow). > P.S. I know you are actually right, because I have tried different > kinds of swords, and the more recent the more lighter they are. AFAIK there was an increase of weight in the first half of the millennium (because armor got stronger) and then an reduction in the second (no armor any more). > hevaiest I have found was a french Husar sword from 1830 that weights 4 > kg.Stilll I think I could be (under extreme circumstances) right too. I regard 1-4kg as the range to be usable. With 1.5-2 as the majority. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic