From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Elvish for Swansea Date: Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:15:21 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-158.iowa.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 962917810 28171 62.137.66.158 (6 Jul 2000 21:10:10 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Jul 2000 21:10:10 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23058 I have decided to translate the name of the place I live (Swansea, a coastal city in Wales - perhaps the inspiration for Alqulondë, there are docks and ferrys here ) into Elvish. Possibly to put in my sig. The Quenya stems appear to be Alqua (swan) and ëar (sea), with sindarin Alph and Gaer. My question is, is it just as simple as sticking one on the end of the other, or should sea go first? Alquaëar I don't like too much because 4 vowels in a row kinda sucks and its a bit too close to queer for my liking. ëaralqua would be better for the quenya. Alphgaer and Gaeralph are the sindarin options. Come to think of it, I like the ones that start with A, because the welsh name for swansea is Abertawe (the final e having similar value to ë). I expect I have made linguistic errors, any comments? Jim D ###### From: nospam@littlebleeder.demon.co.uk.invalid (Matthew T Curtis) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:46:34 GMT Message-ID: <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> Reply-To: little.bleeder@mtcurtis.demon.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Host: mtcurtis.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: mtcurtis.demon.co.uk:193.237.215.90 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 963013617 nnrp-03:28716 NO-IDENT mtcurtis.demon.co.uk:193.237.215.90 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!mtcurtis.demon.co.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23039 On Thu, 6 Jul 2000 22:15:21 -0700, "Jim" wrote: >I have decided to translate the name of the place I live (Swansea, a >coastal city in Wales - perhaps the inspiration for Alqulondë, there are >docks and ferrys here ) into Elvish. >Possibly to put in my sig. >The Quenya stems appear to be Alqua (swan) and ëar (sea), with sindarin Alph >and Gaer. Delurk to nitpick: the second element in Swansea is probably either: -eya- (or something similar in Anglo-Saxon and other teutonic languages), which means -island-, hence Orkney, Lindsey, et cetera, and the modern word eyot (in which case, use _tol_); or a diminution of the word -hithe-, a place where boats could be moored, as in Chelsea (in which case, stick with _lond_). >Jim D > -- Matthew T Curtis little.bleeder[at]mtcurtis.demon.co.uk HIV+ for 19 Glorious Years! The most scandalous charges were suppressed; the vicar of Christ was only accused of piracy, murder, rape, sodomy, and incest. - Edward Gibbon ###### From: "Cardinal Zorak" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 03:14:55 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 34 Message-ID: <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-165.elbereth.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 963022084 21634 62.136.178.165 (8 Jul 2000 02:08:04 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jul 2000 02:08:04 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23051 Aber is welsh for "estuary" or "mouth (of a river)" Cardinal Z "If he wants to torture you, you won't Torquemada'f it!" -- "Jim" wrote in message news:8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk... > > Matthew T Curtis wrote in message <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk>... > >Delurk to nitpick: the second element in Swansea is probably either: > > > >-eya- (or something similar in Anglo-Saxon and other teutonic > >languages), which means -island-, hence Orkney, Lindsey, et cetera, > >and the modern word eyot (in which case, use _tol_); > > > >or a diminution of the word -hithe-, a place where boats could be > >moored, as in Chelsea (in which case, stick with _lond_). > > > IIRC it is derived from Swains eye (not sure of spelling). > There are no islands near, but there is a rivers ending (the river tawe, > which is welsh (cf. aber-tawe), unsure of what the river is called in > english). > So I should probably find out what Aber means in welsh. > If I went for londe, its exactly the same as Alqulonde, which isn't what I > want. > > Jim D > > > > ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 19 Date: Sat, 08 Jul 2000 04:06:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.76 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 963029214 208.170.95.76 (Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:06:54 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Jul 2000 23:06:54 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.online.be!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23094 In article <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Jim" wrote: > I have decided to translate the name of the place I live (Swansea, a > coastal city in Wales - perhaps the inspiration for Alqulondë, there are > docks and ferrys here ) into Elvish. > Possibly to put in my sig. > The Quenya stems appear to be Alqua (swan) and ëar (sea), with sindarin Alph > and Gaer. Well, just taking it as it appears to be (swan+sea), Q. alqua + ear = Alquear (final a on alqua drops) S. alph+gaer = Alphaer (first g on gaer drops) These are normal changes for compounds. DS ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Sat, 8 Jul 2000 02:41:31 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-41.tin.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 963020184 19803 62.136.41.41 (8 Jul 2000 01:36:24 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jul 2000 01:36:24 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23056 Matthew T Curtis wrote in message <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk>... >Delurk to nitpick: the second element in Swansea is probably either: > >-eya- (or something similar in Anglo-Saxon and other teutonic >languages), which means -island-, hence Orkney, Lindsey, et cetera, >and the modern word eyot (in which case, use _tol_); > >or a diminution of the word -hithe-, a place where boats could be >moored, as in Chelsea (in which case, stick with _lond_). IIRC it is derived from Swains eye (not sure of spelling). There are no islands near, but there is a rivers ending (the river tawe, which is welsh (cf. aber-tawe), unsure of what the river is called in english). So I should probably find out what Aber means in welsh. If I went for londe, its exactly the same as Alqulonde, which isn't what I want. Jim D ###### From: Medusa Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 16:27:22 +0100 Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: euryale.demon.co.uk X-NNTP-Posting-Host: euryale.demon.co.uk:212.229.71.144 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 963156496 nnrp-03:10916 NO-IDENT euryale.demon.co.uk:212.229.71.144 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Newsreader: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 <45kZBxlaLjweg1teD$Aeh$CHQm> Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon!euryale.demon.co.uk!medusa Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23131 Jim scribed unto the elucidated brethren: >IIRC it is derived from Swains eye (not sure of spelling). Possibly from the Viking settlement - forget the exact name, but it sounded a lot like Swansea >There are no islands near, but there is a rivers ending (the river tawe, >which is welsh (cf. aber-tawe), unsure of what the river is called in >english). >So I should probably find out what Aber means in welsh. Mouth of the river (or other attribute similar) e.g. Aber-tawe - mouth of the Tawe -- Medusa, Sister of Vetinari From Wales, where men are men and sheep are nervous ###### From: "Paul Shenton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Lines: 23 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 15:41:21 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.140.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 963157281 24.64.140.24 (Sun, 09 Jul 2000 08:41:21 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 08:41:21 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23137 "Jim" wrote in message news:8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk... > > Cardinal Zorak wrote in message <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>... > >Aber is welsh for "estuary" or "mouth (of a river)" > > > So how about using Ethir (like in Ethir Anduin) > So Ethir Alqua (although that might be mixing sindarin and quenya?) > or Alpethir. > > Jim D > It is apparently okay to mix roots from different languages, at least in English. Take a look at the Greek-Latin hybrid "television". Paul. ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 14 Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 15:52:51 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.12 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 963157971 208.170.95.12 (Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:52:51 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 10:52:51 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23153 In article <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk>, "Jim" wrote: > So how about using Ethir (like in Ethir Anduin) > So Ethir Alqua (although that might be mixing sindarin and quenya?) Yes, it would be. > or Alpethir. Alphethir (or Ethir-in-Eilph). ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 13:59:30 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 12 Message-ID: <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-211.iowa.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news6.svr.pol.co.uk 963147243 3808 62.137.66.211 (9 Jul 2000 12:54:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jul 2000 12:54:03 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23122 Cardinal Zorak wrote in message <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>... >Aber is welsh for "estuary" or "mouth (of a river)" So how about using Ethir (like in Ethir Anduin) So Ethir Alqua (although that might be mixing sindarin and quenya?) or Alpethir. Jim D ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Sun, 9 Jul 2000 22:36:17 +0300 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-a029.otenet.gr X-Trace: newssrv.otenet.gr 963171437 1426 212.205.240.29 (9 Jul 2000 19:37:17 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Jul 2000 19:37:17 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23203 Paul Shenton wrote in message news:B21a5.60599$7I1.874672@news1.rdc2.on.home.com... > > "Jim" wrote in message > news:8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > > Cardinal Zorak wrote in message <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>... > > >Aber is welsh for "estuary" or "mouth (of a river)" > > > > > > So how about using Ethir (like in Ethir Anduin) > > So Ethir Alqua (although that might be mixing sindarin and quenya?) > > or Alpethir. > > > It is apparently okay to mix roots from different languages, at least in > English. Take a look at the Greek-Latin hybrid "television". In Greece "remote-control" is usually called the Greek-English hybrid "telecontrol".... Aris Katsaris ###### From: Robert Brady Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> Reply-To: rwb197@ecs.soton.ac.uk X-URL: http://www.aber.mud.org/ X-Conspiracy: There is no conspiracy User-Agent: tin/1.4.1-19991124 ("Blueprint") (UNIX) (Linux/2.2.11 (i686)) NNTP-Posting-Host: servalan.ecs.soton.ac.uk Message-ID: <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Date: 9 Jul 2000 23:55:26 GMT X-Trace: 9 Jul 2000 23:55:26 GMT, servalan.ecs.soton.ac.uk Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!skynet.be!news.vas-net.net!server2.netnews.ja.net!news-spool.soton.ac.uk!news.ecs.soton.ac.uk!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23193 Aris Katsaris wrote: >In Greece "remote-control" is usually called the Greek-English hybrid >"telecontrol".... control coming from Latin contrarotulus... -- Robert "Any person who knowingly causes a nuclear weapon test explosion or any other nuclear explosion is guilty of an offence and liable on conviction on indictment to imprisonment for life." -- Nuclear Explosions Act 1998. ###### From: "Paul Shenton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Lines: 17 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 00:39:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.140.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 963189566 24.64.140.24 (Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:39:26 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 09 Jul 2000 17:39:26 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23227 "Robert Brady" wrote in message news:396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk... > Aris Katsaris wrote: > >In Greece "remote-control" is usually called the Greek-English hybrid > >"telecontrol".... > > control coming from Latin contrarotulus... Ultimately, cannot we derive every word from proto-World...or perhaps proto-Nostractic? Paul. ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Lines: 15 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: <7moa5.13954$rH5.30328@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:14:05 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.44.132 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 963252739 212.151.44.132 (Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:12:19 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 10 Jul 2000 20:12:19 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23232 Paul Shenton hath written: [snip] > >It is apparently okay to mix roots from different languages, at least in >English. Take a look at the Greek-Latin hybrid "television". Or when naming places in Gondor. Lossarnach was a combination of Sindarin *loss* ("snow") and the Mannish (pre-Númenorean) *arnach*, of unknown meaning. Öjevind ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 23 Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 02:42:31 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.189 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 963369751 208.170.95.189 (Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:42:31 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 11 Jul 2000 21:42:31 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23342 In article <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>, "Paul Shenton" wrote: > Ultimately, cannot we derive every word from proto-World...or perhaps > proto-Nostractic? No. DS All right, I'll be nice: First, it's Nostratic, not Nostractic, second, Nostratic is a chimera hunted by a very few fringe linguists. We do not even know that humans developed language only once. We certainly cannot say that all languages are derived from a single language (out of many that might have coexisted) although that is a very slightly more plausible hypothesis. Even if it were true, the various language families have been developing independently for so many millennia (certainly more than ten) that they are effectively isolated from each other, and no provable link that far back can be traced. Besides, in every language words can be invented, in prehistoric as well as in historic times. David Salo ###### From: the softrat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Date: Wed, 12 Jul 2000 02:21:32 -0700 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 27 Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!sn-xit-01!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!news.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23338 On Wed, 12 Jul 2000 02:42:31 GMT, dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) wrote: > > All right, I'll be nice: First, it's Nostratic, not Nostractic, second, >Nostratic is a chimera hunted by a very few fringe linguists. We do not >even know that humans developed language only once. We certainly cannot >say that all languages are derived from a single language (out of many that >might have coexisted) although that is a very slightly more plausible >hypothesis. Even if it were true, the various language families have been >developing independently for so many millennia (certainly more than ten) >that they are effectively isolated from each other, and no provable link >that far back can be traced. Besides, in every language words can be >invented, in prehistoric as well as in historic times. > I know that the Nostratic Hypothesis is a minority position in linguistics, and I do not believe it to be true, but is it really fair to characterize Nostratic supporters to be 'a very few fringe' linguists. I labor under the impression that it is a rather large 'fringe' and includes some major figures like Joseph Greenberg at Stanford. (The name may be mis-spelled.) It is one of the never-to-be-resolved academic disputes, rather like the laryngeal hypothesis (which I do accept). the softrat mailto:softrat@pobox.com -- Some people are going to leave a mark on this world. You might leave a stain. ###### From: "Paul Shenton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 12:11:05 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.140.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 963663065 24.64.140.24 (Sat, 15 Jul 2000 05:11:05 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 05:11:05 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23564 "David Salo" wrote in message news:dsalo-ya02408000R1107002144030001@news.terracom.net... > In article <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com>, "Paul Shenton" > wrote: > > > Ultimately, cannot we derive every word from proto-World...or perhaps > > proto-Nostractic? > > No. > > DS > > > All right, I'll be nice: First, it's Nostratic, not Nostractic, That was nice??? It was a typographical error. Paul. ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Elvish for Swansea Message-ID: References: <8k2sji$rgb$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> <39666805.44272415@news.demon.co.uk> <8k60io$jar$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k62e4$l42$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> <8k9slb$3n0$1@news6.svr.pol.co.uk> <8kak9d$1ci$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> <396902de@news.ecs.soton.ac.uk> <2X8a5.61440$7I1.890540@news1.rdc2.on.home.com> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 27 Date: Sun, 16 Jul 2000 02:10:26 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.216 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 963713426 208.170.95.216 (Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:10:26 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 15 Jul 2000 21:10:26 CDT Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23673 In article , "Paul Shenton" wrote: > > All right, I'll be nice: First, it's Nostratic, not Nostractic, > > That was nice??? It was a typographical error. I'm not implying that typoes are a moral fault; however, I think that people ought to be know how to spell "Nostratic", just as they should know the correct spellings of "Artic", "athalete", and "Febuary"*. DS