Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Gollum in the buff (was Re: Orcs and Elvish things) References: <8j1b5p$4je$1@nnrp1.deja.com> X-Newsreader: trn 4.0-test70 (17 January 1999) From: sbjensen@midway.uchicago.edu (Steuard Jensen) Lines: 12 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: uchinews 961951160 128.135.12.7 (Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:39:20 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 11:39:20 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 16:39:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22356 Quoth mlindanne@hotmail.com (China Blue Bird of Happiness): > "...For a moment he might have paused to consider Gollum, a tiny > figure sprawling on the ground: there perhaps lay the famished > skeleton of some child of Men, its ragged garment still clinging to > it..." I thought of this, but I was never quite sure how to interpret it. On some reading of this passage, I've wondered if the "ragged garment" that the passing eagle would have seen actually referred to loose, pale flesh. Perhaps not, but I'd be interested to know if anyone else ever had this thought. Steuard Jensen ###### From: jeoppete@aol.com (Kingasaurus) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gollum in the buff (was Re: Orcs and Elvish things) Lines: 27 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 26 Jun 2000 01:05:33 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000625210533.10922.00003313@ng-fv1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!208.184.7.66!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22308 << I thought of this, but I was never quite sure how to interpret it. On some reading of this passage, I've wondered if the "ragged garment" that the passing eagle would have seen actually referred to loose, pale flesh. Perhaps not, but I'd be interested to know if anyone else ever had this thought. Steuard Jensen >> Steuard, Tolkien mentioned somewhere that he was rather irritated at the way many illustrators portrayed Gollum. I'll quote directly from Anderson's "Annotated Hobbit": "What should Gollum look like? Based on various sources by Tolkien, he should be a slimy little creature not larger than Bilbo; thin, with a large head for his size; large, protruberant eyes; a long, skinny neck; and thin, lank hair. His skin was white, and evidently he wore black garments. (He was never naked.) His hands were long and his feet were webby, with prehensile toes." Obviously I'm quoting Anderson who is paraphrasing Tolkien, but I'd be interested if anyone can come up with a direct quote from the Professor to confirm that Gollum should never be prtrayed naked. -King " I know what fakery looks like" -James Randi ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000625210533.10922.00003313@ng-fv1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Gollum in the buff (was Re: Orcs and Elvish things) Lines: 25 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:49:30 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.71.97 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961984170 12.78.71.97 (Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:49:30 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:49:30 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22294 "Kingasaurus" wrote in message news:20000625210533.10922.00003313@ng-fv1.aol.com... > Obviously I'm quoting Anderson who is paraphrasing Tolkien, but > I'd be interested if anyone can come up with a direct quote from > the Professor to confirm that Gollum should never be prtrayed > naked. Blast! I've been looking for this quotation (everywhere but in Annotated Hobbit) for several days under the mistaken impression that it was from Tolkien himself. The 1963 letter mentioned by Anderson does not seem to appear in Letters (at least not amongst those dated to 1963). That is definitely the one reference I was dimly remembering... and for all we know Anderson could have been basing the 'black clothing' bit on the 'garment' reference and Gollum being taken for a 'black squirrel'. Still, there seem to be a few indications that he was clothed and nothing strongly contrary to this. -- "Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts..." - JRR Tolkien