From: Seth Armstrong Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Question about heights Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 09:58:05 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 14 Message-ID: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.104.44 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun Jun 18 09:58:05 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt; CNETHomeBuild051099) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x52.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.209.104.44 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsetharmstrong Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21748 I'm curious as to how big the Valar and Maiar were (and also guys like King Thingol). I have seen some LOTR and Silmarillion paintings which depict the Valar and Balrogs and other beings of that species, as giants. This is not the impression I got from The Silmarillion. I could see the Ainur as being taller and greater than the Elves (and therefore quite a bit larger than Men), but not incredibly so. No taller than about 8 feet, I though. I curious, did Tolkien himself ever say? What is the opinion of this group? Seth Armstrong Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:01:25 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.73.38 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961329685 12.78.73.38 (Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:01:25 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 12:01:25 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21757 "Seth Armstrong" wrote in message news:8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I'm curious as to how big the Valar and Maiar were (and also guys > like King Thingol). I have seen some LOTR and Silmarillion > paintings which depict the Valar and Balrogs and other beings of > that species, as giants. Elendil was nearly eight feet tall. Thingol somewhat taller, and in some cases compared to a 'lord of the Maiar'. His wife Melian seems to have been of similar height. Sauron was said to have been greater than human height but not gigantic. Morgoth was clearly of immense size in his battle against Fingolfin. In notes Tolkien indicated that the Balrog of Moria 'felt' larger than it was and that it was only a little greater than man sized. This concurs with its ability to fit through the door into the Chamber of Mazarbul and far older descriptions of Balrogs at ~10 feet from the Fall of Gondolin. In the beginning of their tenure within Arda the Ainur could take on any form they desired, and many of them retained this ability for some time. As such I would expect the Valar and Maiar to take on forms of near Elven height as they would not want to project a dominating physical presence. Melkor clearly chose a great and imposing form (likely the tallest in M-E, though elsewhere it is implied that title should go to Gilim the giant, whose neck was longer than many trees). It might be argued that Tulkas's form must have been as great... or perhaps Tulkas and the others took on large forms when they 'arrayed themselves for war'. So, all told I'd say that Morgoth alone of the Ainur was commonly of 'giant' size. ###### From: erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 18 Jun 2000 17:14:32 GMT References: <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000618131432.14956.00000342@ng-fo1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!oleane.net!oleane!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21884 Meanwhile, I'm still trying to convince people that Elves aren't short. One ignorant son of a Balrog even went so far as to say they work for Santa. Does anyone out there have any suggestions for how to convince these simpletons of the greatness and power of the eldar? -*Mithrigil* ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 32 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:57:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.28.80 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961351064 12.79.28.80 (Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:57:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 17:57:44 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.71!wnfilter1!worldnet-localpost!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21881 "Jim" wrote in message news:8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > This passage makes Elendil nearly 2.5 ranga tall, 38*2.5 = 95 > inches tall, 8'1" Last time I looked 95 / 12 came out 7 times with a remainder of 11; and hence 7' 11". > Elendil ' was accounted the tallest of all the Númenóreans who > escape the Downfall ' this implies that some of the Numenoreans > that didn't escape were even taller. Possibly. However, he was called 'Elendil the Tall' even before the fall of Numenor. The term 'man high' at 6' 4" referred to the Numenoreans and thus represented the apparent average height. In other texts Tuor and Huor are said to have been the two tallest of the Edain (though this might refer only to their own time). > Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' > so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess > is he was close on 9 feet tall. Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of the Eruhini. ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: 18 Jun 2000 18:12:19 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 35 Message-ID: <8ij3e3$58v$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: sirppi.helsinki.fi Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 961351939 5407 128.214.205.27 (18 Jun 2000 18:12:19 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 2000 18:12:19 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (OSF1/V4.0 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!pop-news-1.colt-telecom.nl!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21885 Conrad Dunkerson wrote: > "Jim" wrote in message > news:8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... >> This passage makes Elendil nearly 2.5 ranga tall, 38*2.5 = 95 >> inches tall, 8'1" > Last time I looked 95 / 12 came out 7 times with a remainder of 11; > and hence 7' 11". >> Elendil ' was accounted the tallest of all the Númenóreans who >> escape the Downfall ' this implies that some of the Numenoreans >> that didn't escape were even taller. > Possibly. However, he was called 'Elendil the Tall' even before > the fall of Numenor. The term 'man high' at 6' 4" referred to the > Numenoreans and thus represented the apparent average height. In > other texts Tuor and Huor are said to have been the two tallest of > the Edain (though this might refer only to their own time). >> Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' >> so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess >> is he was close on 9 feet tall. > Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given > that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it > seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at > a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd > probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an > inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of > the Eruhini. How about Maedrhos the Tall? ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 13:22:39 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 60 Message-ID: <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-243.argon.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news7.svr.pol.co.uk 961330754 23555 62.136.17.243 (18 Jun 2000 12:19:14 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 18 Jun 2000 12:19:14 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21768 Unfinished tales : 'Thus two rangar was often called "man-high," which at thirty-eight inches gives an average height of six feet four inches; but this was at a later date, when the stature of the Dúnedain appears to have decreased, and also was not intended to be an accurate statement of the observed average of male stature among them, but was an approximate length expressed in the well-known unit ranga. (The ranga is often said to have been the length of the stride, from rear heel to front toe, of a full-grown man marching swiftly but at ease; a full stride "might be well nigh a ranga and a half.") It is however said of the great people of the past that they were more than a man-high. Elendil was said to be "more than man-high by nearly half a ranga;" but he was accounted the tallest of all the Númenóreans who escape the Downfall [and was indeed generally known as Elendil the Tall]. The Eldar of the Elder Days were also very tall. Galadriel, "the tallest of all the women of the Eldar of whom tales tell," was said to be man-high, but it is noted "according to the measure of the Dúnedain and the men of old," indicating a height of about six feet four inches.' This passage makes Elendil nearly 2.5 ranga tall, 38*2.5 = 95 inches tall, 8'1", call it 8 foot as it is 'more than man high by nearly half a ranga' not a whole ranga. Elendil ' was accounted the tallest of all the Númenóreans who escape the Downfall ' this implies that some of the Numenoreans that didn't escape were even taller. Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess is he was close on 9 feet tall. So if the valar are generally taller than Thingol then 10 feet seems like a reasonable guess at thier average height, but maybe Thingol was taller than some/most/all of the valar, who knows? Balrogs hold some of thier power in terror, so I imagine they would embody themselves pretty large, I imagine them coming in at about 12-18 feet. This would make thier wingspan about 30 feet ;) I haven't read letters of HoME so go ahead and gainsay everything I've said :) Jim D Seth Armstrong wrote in message <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com>... >I'm curious as to how big the Valar and Maiar were (and also guys like >King Thingol). I have seen some LOTR and Silmarillion paintings which >depict the Valar and Balrogs and other beings of that species, as >giants. This is not the impression I got from The Silmarillion. I >could see the Ainur as being taller and greater than the Elves (and >therefore quite a bit larger than Men), but not incredibly so. No >taller than about 8 feet, I though. I curious, did Tolkien himself >ever say? What is the opinion of this group? > >Seth Armstrong > > >Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ >Before you buy. ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 03:37:16 +0300 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 18 Message-ID: <8ijq1c$7he$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-q105.otenet.gr X-Trace: newssrv.otenet.gr 961375084 7726 212.205.254.105 (19 Jun 2000 00:38:04 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Jun 2000 00:38:04 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21925 Seth Armstrong wrote in message news:8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > I'm curious as to how big the Valar and Maiar were (and also guys like > King Thingol). I have seen some LOTR and Silmarillion paintings which > depict the Valar and Balrogs and other beings of that species, as > giants. This is not the impression I got from The Silmarillion. I > could see the Ainur as being taller and greater than the Elves (and > therefore quite a bit larger than Men), but not incredibly so. No > taller than about 8 feet, I though. I curious, did Tolkien himself > ever say? What is the opinion of this group? Tolkien said somewhere that the Valar took forms that were larger than human but not gigantic. I don't remember where... Aris Katsaris ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:45:52 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8iqupd$n2o$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-79.hassium.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 961609325 23640 62.136.74.79 (21 Jun 2000 17:42:05 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:42:05 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!news.vas-net.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21982 >Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given >that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it >seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at >a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd >probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an >inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of >the Eruhini. Well in theory yes, but I like to imagine him as 9 foot tall, and will continue to do so. It makes his being killed by 4 foot dwarves all the more ironic, what did they do? chop his legs off at the knee? http://www3.nando.net/newsroom/ntn/health/070398/health3_13072_noframes.html The tallest man was 8'11.1" (allbeit in the 6th age or whatever we are in now) so if you accepts this evidence in the discussion (which no doubt you don't :)) then Thingol has to be 8'11.10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000001" or more tall. Jim D ###### From: "Jim" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:53:48 -0700 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 9 Message-ID: <8iqv88$nbc$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <8iqupd$n2o$1@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-79.hassium.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk 961609800 23916 62.136.74.79 (21 Jun 2000 17:50:00 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 21 Jun 2000 17:50:00 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21981 This page is better, it has a picture of Thingol with the dwarves attacking him ;) http://www.roadsideamerica.com/attract/ILALTwadlow.html Jim D ###### From: "Durin VII" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 40 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: <_nq45.7010$HD6.211402@iad-read.news.verio.net> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:38:35 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.139.30.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 961688186 209.139.30.25 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:36:26 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 15:36:26 GMT Organization: Verio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22037 I'm sorry, but I didn't seem to get the full thread. Where are these heights from? Conrad Dunkerson wrote in message news:s4835.7579$Uw3.487591@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > "Jim" wrote in message > news:8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk... > > > This passage makes Elendil nearly 2.5 ranga tall, 38*2.5 = 95 > > inches tall, 8'1" > > Last time I looked 95 / 12 came out 7 times with a remainder of 11; > and hence 7' 11". > > > Elendil ' was accounted the tallest of all the Númenóreans who > > escape the Downfall ' this implies that some of the Numenoreans > > that didn't escape were even taller. > > Possibly. However, he was called 'Elendil the Tall' even before > the fall of Numenor. The term 'man high' at 6' 4" referred to the > Numenoreans and thus represented the apparent average height. In > other texts Tuor and Huor are said to have been the two tallest of > the Edain (though this might refer only to their own time). > > > Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' > > so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess > > is he was close on 9 feet tall. > > Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given > that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it > seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at > a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd > probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an > inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of > the Eruhini. > > ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 22 Jun 2000 15:56:08 GMT References: <_nq45.7010$HD6.211402@iad-read.news.verio.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <20000622115608.15983.00004467@nso-fk.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22023 >> Possibly. However, he was called 'Elendil the Tall' even before >> the fall of Numenor. The term 'man high' at 6' 4" referred to the >> Numenoreans and thus represented the apparent average height. In >> other texts Tuor and Huor are said to have been the two tallest of >> the Edain (though this might refer only to their own time). >> >> > Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' >> > so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess >> > is he was close on 9 feet tall. >> >> Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given >> that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it >> seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at >> a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd >> probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an >> inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of >> the Eruhini. >> Remember too that Nienor was taller than all but the tallest Sindarin soldiers who accompanied Morwen out of Doriath. I think it's somewhere stated that Beorians were generally the same average height of Elves and the Marachians were even a bit taller. Remember however, that these edainic groups represented only a small fraction of Men. Shorter Easterlings far outnumbered the elf-friends. I would say that overall the average Elf was taller than the average Man, even if that general rule did not necessarily apply to the elf-friends. Russ ###### From: Seth Armstrong Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Question about heights Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:54:34 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 46 Message-ID: <8itncv$h3k$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <_nq45.7010$HD6.211402@iad-read.news.verio.net> <20000622115608.15983.00004467@nso-fk.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 216.209.107.121 X-Article-Creation-Date: Thu Jun 22 18:54:34 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows 98; DigExt; CNETHomeBuild051099) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x54.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 216.209.107.121 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDsetharmstrong Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed.germany.net!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22098 Well, thanks to everyone who responded to my question, even though you don't agree with each other [:-)], it was all helpful. In article <20000622115608.15983.00004467@nso-fk.aol.com>, mcresq@aol.com (Russ) wrote: > >> Possibly. However, he was called 'Elendil the Tall' even before > >> the fall of Numenor. The term 'man high' at 6' 4" referred to the > >> Numenoreans and thus represented the apparent average height. In > >> other texts Tuor and Huor are said to have been the two tallest of > >> the Edain (though this might refer only to their own time). > >> > >> > Thingol is said to be 'The tallest of the children of illuvatar' > >> > so he must have been even taller than the numenoreans, my guess > >> > is he was close on 9 feet tall. > >> > >> Well, in theory he could have been just over 7' 11". Also, given > >> that we know that tall Edain were of similar height to the Eldar it > >> seems likely that most Elves were under 7' in height (Galadriel at > >> a mere 6' 4" was the largest female elf known). As such I'd > >> probably put Thingol at only a little over 8' tall... Turgon an > >> inch or so behind as (in at least some texts) the second tallest of > >> the Eruhini. > >> > > Remember too that Nienor was taller than all but the tallest Sindarin soldiers > who accompanied Morwen out of Doriath. > > I think it's somewhere stated that Beorians were generally the same average > height of Elves and the Marachians were even a bit taller. > > Remember however, that these edainic groups represented only a small fraction > of Men. Shorter Easterlings far outnumbered the elf-friends. I would say > that overall the average Elf was taller than the average Man, even if that > general rule did not necessarily apply to the elf-friends. > > Russ > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8ii6fc$n8d$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8iieo2$n03$1@news7.svr.pol.co.uk> <_nq45.7010$HD6.211402@iad-read.news.verio.net> Subject: Re: Question about heights Lines: 13 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:42:01 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.112.187 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961792921 12.78.112.187 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:42:01 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:42:01 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!proxad.net!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22110 "Durin VII" wrote in message news:_nq45.7010$HD6.211402@iad-read.news.verio.net... > I'm sorry, but I didn't seem to get the full thread. Where are > these heights from? Unfinished Tales, The Disaster of the Gladden Fields - Appendix (Numenorean Linear Measures) Just a few pages long, but gives alot of information which cannot be found anywhere else.