From: nartio@cwavio.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Message-ID: X-Newsreader: Anawave Gravity v2.00 Lines: 5 Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:25:03 -0600 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.176.137.110 X-Complaints-To: news@primus.ca X-Trace: news1.tor.primus.ca 961391710 207.176.137.110 (Mon, 19 Jun 2000 01:15:10 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 01:15:10 EDT Organization: Primus Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed2.nntp.acc.ca!feed.nntp.acc.ca!news1.tor.primus.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21941 Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? ###### Message-ID: <394DB182.1F975A30@worldnet.att.net> From: Kent Reply-To: tokent@yahoo.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:35:52 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.14.29.232 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961392952 63.14.29.232 (Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:35:52 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 05:35:52 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!portc.blue.aol.com.MISMATCH!portc03.blue.aol.com!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21921 nartio@cwavio.com wrote: > > So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Well, to echo the sentiments of kungmingtao, Robert E Howard wrote some darn good fantasy that's worlds apart from Tolkien. If you're not up for the barbarian stuff (Conan, Kull, Bran Mac Morn, ect) try his 'Solomon Kane' or 'Eons of the Night' collections. Also, Harry Harrison's "Hammer and the Cross" series is excellent if you'd like to read more Norse-influenced stuff that isn't Tolkienish. And of course you might like Terry Pratchett's "Discworld" novels: they're extremely funny and draw on ALL fantasy traditions (usually in the same book). Kent ###### From: "Michael Martin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:56:02 -0400 Lines: 42 Organization: 7 Thunders Multimedia X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: wusmm111228-01.daytonoh.ncr.com Message-ID: <394e188b$1@rpc1284.daytonoh.ncr.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ncrnews.daytonoh.ncr.com X-Trace: 19 Jun 2000 08:56:46 -0400, ncrnews.daytonoh.ncr.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!feed2.onemain.com!feed1.onemain.com!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!pullfeed!rpc1287.DaytonOH.NCR.COM!ncrnews.daytonoh.ncr.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21936 wrote in message news:MPG.13b74e861fcefb8e989695@news.primus.ca... > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Go and get Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy: Book 1: The Dragonbone Chair Book 2: Stone of Farewell Book 3 (published as two paperbacks): To Green Angel Tower Williams is a consummate writer -- rich in detail, realistic in character development, and innovative and creative in the fantastic elements. Something to realize as well (posted in another thread) is that MS&T was written by Williams as a "response" to the state of the genre today -- as you have noticed, most fantasy is a stereotyped bastardization of Tolkien's work. Williams wanted to take the epic fantasy and turn some of its sacred cows into hamburger. This is he does, while still telling a fairly conventional epic fantasy story. I will "warn" you that some folks complain about how "slow" the first book (The Dragonbone Chair) starts out. I never found it slow, but really enjoy the rich detailing of the world, the introduction of characters and setting up of the story. If you liked the first third of The Fellowship of the Ring, you should have no problems with TDB. Enjoy and happy discovering! -- Michael Martin http://magisterium.go.cc "You would be amazed at how few good movies have cavemen flying 1,000 year old harrier jets." --cthulu_guy on rec.arts.sf.movies ###### From: dave@trewen.com (Dave Mansell) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2000 21:42 +0100 (BST) Organization: Citadel Software Limited Lines: 50 Message-ID: References: <394e188b$1@rpc1284.daytonoh.ncr.com> Reply-To: dave@trewen.com NNTP-Posting-Host: user38-189.jakinternet.co.uk (212.41.38.189) X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 961447352 5471014 212.41.38.189 (16 [27272]) X-News-Software: Ameol2 X-URL: http://www.ameol.com Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!unlisys!news.snafu.de!cs.tu-berlin.de!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!user38-189.jakinternet.co.UK!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21897 In article <394e188b$1@rpc1284.daytonoh.ncr.com>, magisteriumDIESPAMMERS@xoommail.com (Michael Martin) wrote: > wrote in message > news:MPG.13b74e861fcefb8e989695@news.primus.ca... > > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and > ejoyed > > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I > think > > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem > likley > > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, > anyway > > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? > > Go and get Tad Williams' Memory, Sorrow and Thorn trilogy: > > Book 1: The Dragonbone Chair > Book 2: Stone of Farewell > Book 3 (published as two paperbacks): To Green Angel Tower > > Williams is a consummate writer -- rich in detail, realistic in > character development, and innovative and creative in the fantastic > elements. Something to realize as well (posted in another thread) is > that MS&T was written by Williams as a "response" to the state of the > genre today -- as you have noticed, most fantasy is a stereotyped > bastardization of Tolkien's work. Williams wanted to take the epic > fantasy and turn some of its sacred cows into hamburger. This is he > does, while still telling a fairly conventional epic fantasy story. > > I will "warn" you that some folks complain about how "slow" the first > book (The Dragonbone Chair) starts out. I never found it slow, but > really enjoy the rich detailing of the world, the introduction of > characters and setting up of the story. If you liked the first third > of The Fellowship of the Ring, you should have no problems with TDB. > > Enjoy and happy discovering! > > -- > Michael Martin > http://magisterium.go.cc > "You would be amazed at how few good movies have cavemen flying 1,000 > year old harrier jets." --cthulu_guy on rec.arts.sf.movies > If you want to read something definitely different you could try Mary Gentle's 'Grunts'. Dave ###### Message-ID: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:38:00 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 20 Jun 2000 10:28:08 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 30 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!towncrier.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21904 Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" series (starts with "Seventh Son") is very different and damn good. As well as being an engaging story, it's extremely well-written. Katharine Kerr's Deverry series (starts with "Daggerspell"), may have some tolkienesque overtones in the races of elves and dwarves, but is very different in its narrative style, character realisation and handling of magical concepts. And is also damn good :) Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has been compared to Tolkien, but I think the reviewer was referring more to the epic scale of the series than any kind of similarities in storyline. Well, there is the "hero makes long and difficult journey" kinda thing, but that's really a fantasy convention anyway. And I second the recommendation of Terry Pratchett. He uses all sorts of fantasy cliches, but that's the whole point, because he's sending them up. It's really a humour series disguised as fantasy (and science fiction and crime and horror and anything else he can cram in - the guy's a genius). Then of course there's Tolkien's contamporary, C.S. Lewis. His Narnia books and Cosmic Trilogy are also some of the best books I've ever read. L. Frank Baum's Oz series, like the narnia one, is mostly aimed at a younger audience, but I say there are some books you're never too old to read :) K nartio@cwavio.com wrote: > > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 22 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:38:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961475897 203.62.185.27 (Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:38:17 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:38:17 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:38:17 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.icl.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21895 On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:25:03 -0600, nartio@cwavio.com wrote: >Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed >them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think >it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley >that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway >anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Some modern fantasy: Memory Sorrow and Thorn. (Tad Williams) Good book, nice twist at the end even if you can predict it. Death's Gate (Magaret Weis and Tracy Hickman) Very long, often dull, not well written, but makes up for all that in terms of originality. (Details aren't original, but the overall effect is. Darksword by these two deserves similar comments, it is not so long or so good. Don't bother with Dragonlance though. Most of Raymond E. Feist: Particularly "Magician". Nice down-to-earth fantasy. He does get into a bit of a "must make a yet bigger villain for the sequel" trap though. Apart from this he is usually very level headed, and he is not at all romantic (as opposed to say Tolkien). ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394e188b$1@rpc1284.daytonoh.ncr.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 20 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:41:57 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961476117 203.62.185.27 (Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:41:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:41:57 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:41:57 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21896 On Mon, 19 Jun 2000 08:56:02 -0400, Michael Martin wrote: >elements. Something to realize as well (posted in another thread) is >that MS&T was written by Williams as a "response" to the state of the >genre today -- as you have noticed, most fantasy is a stereotyped >bastardization of Tolkien's work. Williams wanted to take the epic >fantasy and turn some of its sacred cows into hamburger. This is he >does, while still telling a fairly conventional epic fantasy story. Does he really do that? I thought the beauty if of MS&T is that he takes fantasy cliches and uses them without pissing you off. Eg. King Seoman (or however you spell it). JRRT is the other one who can do this. >I will "warn" you that some folks complain about how "slow" the first >book (The Dragonbone Chair) starts out. I never found it slow, but >really enjoy the rich detailing of the world, the introduction of >characters and setting up of the story. If you liked the first third >of The Fellowship of the Ring, you should have no problems with TDB. Yep, I agree. It is slow, but not as a slow as LoTR. ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 18 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:46:33 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.27 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961476393 203.62.185.27 (Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:46:33 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:46:33 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 14:46:33 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21901 On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:38:00 +1000, Kylie Johnson wrote: >Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" series (starts with "Seventh Son") is >very different and damn good. As well as being an engaging story, it's >extremely well-written. Katharine Kerr's Deverry series (starts with Weird isn't it. I avoided "Alvin" simply because it was fantasy. I don't know Card's style seems so wonderfully suited to Ender's Game that I just can't imagine him writing fantasy. orary, C.S. Lewis. >His Narnia books and Cosmic Trilogy are also some of the best books I've The cosmic trilogy is pure twaddle. I'll agree with you about Narnia. >ever read. L. Frank Baum's Oz series, like the narnia one, is mostly >aimed at a younger audience, but I say there are some books you're never >too old to read :) On that line of thought. Alice in Wonderland. Beats Oz any day. Also read Hunting of the Snark. Which might be fantasy... ###### From: "Daniel Roseman" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 11:17:11 +0100 Message-ID: <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> NNTP-Posting-Host: [194.217.56.150] X-NNTP-Posting-Host: [194.217.56.150]:194.217.56.150 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 961496361 nnrp-01:8473 NO-IDENT [194.217.56.150]:194.217.56.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 15 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.wirehub.nl!bullseye.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon![194.217.56.150]!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21945 "Kylie Johnson" wrote in message news:394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au... > Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has been > compared to Tolkien, but I think the reviewer was referring more to the > epic scale of the series than any kind of similarities in storyline. > Well, there is the "hero makes long and difficult journey" kinda thing, > but that's really a fantasy convention anyway. ... and the fact that the fate of the world depends on a powerful ring... -- Daniel. ###### From: Mika-Petri.Lauronen@oulu.fi (Mika-Petri Lauronen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:54:44 GMT Organization: University of Oulu Lines: 26 Message-ID: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: pcc38252.oulu.fi X-Trace: ousrvr3.oulu.fi 961498422 13598 193.166.38.252 (20 Jun 2000 10:53:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@news.oulu.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 2000 10:53:42 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!colt.net!newspeer.highwayone.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!ousrvr3.oulu.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21910 On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:25:03 -0600, nartio@cwavio.com wrote: >Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed >them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think >it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley >that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway >anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Some VERY untolkienish fantasy writers: - Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's Daughter. - Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. - Clark Ashton Smith, the sometimes underrated pulp master. - Robert E. Howard. Conan is the best-known, but not the only work. - Tove Jansson's "Moomin" series. Very, very original fantasy. - Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar-stories. - Guy Gavriel Kay. Historical fantasy at its best. I guess these'll do at first. "To see a World in a Grain of Sand / And a Heaven in a Wild Flower, Hold Infinity in the palm of your hand / And Eternity in an hour" -- William Blake -- ###### From: mlindanne@hotmail.com (China Blue Bird of Happiness) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:05:08 -0700 Organization: Collective against Consensual Sanity Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Hello-Kitty: meow meow. X-Should: Prancing green elves on yellow daisy fields. X-Should-not: You're not allowed. X-Newsgroup-Bomb: Crossposted to heck and back. X-Ray-Specs: Off. X-Traneous-Reference: Kibo X-NSA-Bait: wiretap pgp cryptoterrorist rsa des Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!corp.supernews.com!c177.ppp.tsoft.com!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21944 / - Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's / Daughter. I got so angry with the characters until the end. / - Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but / absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. Got about 150 pages into it, which corresponds to about the first 15 minutes of the plot. I tossed it; enough with the characters, DO something. -- CACS: Collective Against Consensual Sanity v0.123 Now a text site map! http://www.angelfire.com/ca3/cacs/ pretty? http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Studios/5079/ :)-free zone. Cthulu in '00: .../cacs/politics.html ###### From: Tamim Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: 20 Jun 2000 12:34:41 GMT Organization: University of Helsinki Lines: 26 Message-ID: <8inod1$iku$1@oravannahka.helsinki.fi> References: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> NNTP-Posting-Host: sirppi.helsinki.fi X-Trace: oravannahka.helsinki.fi 961504481 19102 128.214.205.27 (20 Jun 2000 12:34:41 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.helsinki.fi NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 2000 12:34:41 GMT User-Agent: tin/1.4.2-20000205 ("Possession") (UNIX) (OSF1/V4.0 (alpha)) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeed2.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!news.helsinki.fi!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21942 Mika-Petri Lauronen wrote: > On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:25:03 -0600, nartio@cwavio.com wrote: > Some VERY untolkienish fantasy writers: > - Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's > Daughter. > - Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but > absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. > - Clark Ashton Smith, the sometimes underrated pulp master. > - Robert E. Howard. Conan is the best-known, but not the only work. Conan is not a work but a character. My favourite "Howard Hero" is Bran mac Morn > - Tove Jansson's "Moomin" series. Very, very original fantasy. > - Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar-stories. > - Guy Gavriel Kay. Historical fantasy at its best. -- Tamim ###### From: sinopeq@aol.com (SinopeQ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 14 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 20 Jun 2000 13:58:04 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000620095804.15971.00009188@ng-md1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21933 <> Aside from everything else mentioned, Peter Beagle's The Last Unicorn is excellent. It really captures the "numinous" feel I love about Tolkien, the bittersweetness of life. More an extended fairy-tale than a full novel, though, if that's what you're looking for. Sinope --------------------------- Give a man a fish, and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he eats for a lifetime. Show a man religion, and he starves to death while praying for caviar. ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: 20 Jun 2000 21:34:40 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 17 Message-ID: <6upupctacv.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 961529683 591 10.0.3.2 (20 Jun 2000 19:34:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 20 Jun 2000 19:34:43 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21956 nartio@cwavio.com writes: > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? We actually had quite a large thread on this question not long ago. I have archived it at: http://neil.franklin.ch/Usenet/rec.arts.books.tolkien/20000424_Recommendations_please -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 12 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:17:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.25.135 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961532259 12.79.25.135 (Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:17:39 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:17:39 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmasters3!bgtnsc06-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21970 "Adrian Ratnapala" wrote in message news:slrn8ktt5b.1ft.raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au... > Memory Sorrow and Thorn. (Tad Williams) > Good book, nice twist at the end even if you can predict it. How can you NOT predict it? They were excellent books, but I was extremely disappointed with the ending. It just sort of trailed off and the cliche 'twist' at the end had been obvious since somewhere around the second chapter of the first book. ###### Message-ID: <395005E2.C28CE228@rmit.edu.au> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:01:38 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 21 Jun 2000 09:51:40 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21958 oh, ya, i forgot about the ring ("white gold wielder" - der!) and just after i said that about alvin maker, i got to a part in "alvin journeyman" that could be seen as a tribute to tolkien - alvin's singing a song he made, and one of the verses is from a dream he has and talks about a land of mists and little people and a ring. i've gone and left the book at home, so unfortunately i can't quote it, but someone asks him what that verse means and he says he thinks he picked up a fragment of someone else's dream from a long time ago or maybe even from the future having just said how the series had nothing to do with tolkien, that verse made me laugh coming just when it did :) k Daniel Roseman wrote: > > "Kylie Johnson" wrote in message > news:394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au... > > Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has been > > compared to Tolkien, but I think the reviewer was referring more to the > > epic scale of the series than any kind of similarities in storyline. > > Well, there is the "hero makes long and difficult journey" kinda thing, > > but that's really a fantasy convention anyway. > > ... and the fact that the fate of the world depends on a powerful ring... > > -- > Daniel. ###### From: David J Burns Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Reply-To: djburns@interlog.com Message-ID: References: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:28:53 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 154.5.89.96 X-Trace: cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca 961557277 154.5.89.96 (Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:14:37 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 20 Jun 2000 23:14:37 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!peerfeed.news.psi.net!psinr!cac1.rdr.news.psi.ca!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21957 On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 10:54:44 GMT, Mika-Petri.Lauronen@oulu.fi (Mika-Petri Lauronen) wrote: >On Sun, 18 Jun 2000 22:25:03 -0600, nartio@cwavio.com wrote: >Some VERY untolkienish fantasy writers: > >- Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's >Daughter. >- Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but >absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. >- Clark Ashton Smith, the sometimes underrated pulp master. >- Robert E. Howard. Conan is the best-known, but not the only work. >- Tove Jansson's "Moomin" series. Very, very original fantasy. >- Fritz Leiber's Lankhmar-stories. >- Guy Gavriel Kay. Historical fantasy at its best. All excellent choices. I'm surprised no-one has yet mentioned Moorcock's Elric (the anti-fantasy fantasy). Good read, better than alot of the rest of his multiverse stuff IMHO. I'm also reading George R.R. (okay the double r's are shameless) Martin's "Game of Thrones"...very good. Epic scale, great political intrigue. ###### Message-ID: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 15:11:59 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 21 Jun 2000 15:01:59 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 13 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21959 Ooooh, and I just remembered Jack Vance's "Lyonesse" trilogy. It's a kind of pre-Arthurian legend set on the lost British isle of Lyonesse. Dark and beautiful :) K nartio@cwavio.com wrote: > > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? ###### Message-ID: <39510DD7.3108BFA@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 38 Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 13:47:51 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.69.130.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961613204 206.69.130.34 (Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:46:44 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 18:46:44 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22050 Daniel Roseman wrote: > > Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has been > > compared to Tolkien, but I think the reviewer was referring more to the > > epic scale of the series than any kind of similarities in storyline. > > Well, there is the "hero makes long and difficult journey" kinda thing, > > but that's really a fantasy convention anyway. > > ... and the fact that the fate of the world depends on a powerful ring... True, in both the central ring must not fall into the evil one's hands. But beyond that I do not find much similarity. In Tolkien the One Ring is a part of Sauron, possessed of a spirit of its own, and actively tempts its wearer. The white gold ring does no such thing. In fact, Covenant can barely get the thing to work. Its powers are much different than the One Ring's, so much so that there is hardly any similarity. I think Donaldson would also point out that while the both stories have a ring, in neither story does the fate of the world depend on the ring per se. Rather, it depends on the bearer of the ring. Comparing Frodo to Covenant, one can find a world of difference. In any case, when people compare Donaldson to Tolkein and try to say he copied things, I think that is unfair. One could just as easily say Tolkien copied the ring motif from mythology, and hence was not original either. One can always compare books and find similarities and claim plagiaraism. There are so many original things in the Covenant series [both the first and second] that I find it hard to say the C of TC is a derivative of LOTR. -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### From: carledlund@aol.com (CarlEdlund) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 90 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 21 Jun 2000 19:46:11 GMT References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!unlisys!news.snafu.de!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22021 I'm going to first add my vote for a few things already mentioned: Terry Prachett's Discworld books. At worst, they're pretty good; at best, they are truly sublime. Essential reading. There's no point in describing them further, just read them :) Orson Scott Card's "Alvin Maker" series: I was prepared not to like these, but instead I think they're extremely good. Card has, I think, created a real "American" fantasy and draws on plenty of Colonial and early American folklore to get a real "European" richness in a New World setting. He may be a raving Mormon ;) but he does a good job here. The latest volume dragged a bit, i thought, but did contain a blatant Tolkien reference ;) George R.R. Martin "Song of Ice and Fire" series: I've only read the first volume, but it was excellent. Intelligent, complex, pulls no punches. Excellent mix of political intrigue, high fantasy, and warfare. The rest of this series promises to be "must-reads". Then there are a few other things to mention: Michael Scott Rohan: a regular denizen of alt.fan.tolkien, Mike is also a first rank SF author. I particularly recommend his "Winter of the World" books (a 3-book series plus two other stand-alone novels set in the same world). Mike has also done his homework in the folklore department. Rich and graceful epic fantasy. Not to be missed. Harry Turtledove's "Videssos" and "Fox" books: HT has a doctorate in Byzantine studies and really puts it to use in these books, particularly the "Videssos" books. HT is probably better known for his alternate history stuff these days, but I think his earlier fantasy novels are better. The main problem with HT's more recent books, IMO, is that they have about a million viewpoint characters each -- the "Fox" and "Videssos" books are much more tightly focused, and I think read much better for it. In fact, they're brilliant. Parke Godwin's "Anglo-Norman" books: These are really more historical novels than fantasy, but you'll find them in the fantasy section. _Sherwood_ is a very different, clever, and excellent take on the Robin Hood legend, and _Robin and the King_ is the sequel (not *quite* as good, perhaps, but still way cool). _Lord of Sunset_ is a prequel, of sorts, written in a different style and focused on the life of Harold Godwinsson. It's also excellent. John Whitbourn: Hard to find outside of England, JW's books read like an evil cross between Pratchett and Umberto Eco. Well, that's the vibe I get anyway :) They are always clever, often grim, and sometimes extremely funny in a quite dark way. Guy Gavriel Kay: I cannot *stand* the Fionavar Tapestry series. However, I very much enjoyed his later historical fantasy stuff: _Lions of Al-Rassan_, _Tigana_, and, er, I think another one that I've forgotten. Haven't read the pseudo-Byzantine "Sarantium" stuff yet. Speaking of Byzantium (again), Susan Schwartz has done some quite good Byzantine stuff. Nancy Varian Berberick: Some cool historical fantasy set in early England (or sub-Roman Britain, if you prefer) -- _Shadow of the Seventh Moon_ and _Panther's Hoard_. Excellent stuff. Elizabeth Boyer: A sadly underrated author, her early books like _Elves &the Otterskin_ are permanent faves of mine. All are set in a very interesting psuedo-Scandinavian environment, and well-drenched in folklore. Admittedly, her later books seemed to start losing their snap, and she seems to have faded out of sight in the last decade. But go find her books, used if you must (and you probably must), and read them. Fritz Leiber: An Old Master well worthy of the title. Fafhrd and the Grey Mouser are among the most influential fantasy characters ever. Currently, the UK collections are better made than the US collections, and probably worth the transatlantic price hike. Be sure to pronounce Leiber's name in the German way, so that people will know you're cool ;) Stepping over to the "Not Just for Kids" section: Lloyd Alexander's "Prydein" series: Usually thought of as being for kids, these books are really just great stuff no matter your age. If you *have* kids who have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on these. Alan Garner: _Weirdstone of Brisingamen_ and _Moon of Gomrath_. Pretty cool stuff, as well, and also good for the Potter fans who need new reads. Gosh, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of authors I really like, too :) Cheers, Carl ###### From: "Jonas Thorell" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 18 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 21:38:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.178.166.87 X-Complaints-To: news@bahnhof.se X-Trace: dummy.bahnhof.se 961623529 195.178.166.87 (Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:38:49 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 21 Jun 2000 23:38:49 MET DST Organization: Bahnhof Customer News Posting Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!nntp.se.dataphone.net!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!dummy.bahnhof.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22015 CarlEdlund wrote: > Harry Turtledove's "Videssos" and "Fox" books: HT has a doctorate in > Byzantine studies and really puts it to use in these books, particularly > the "Videssos" books. HT is probably better known for his alternate > history stuff these days, but I think his earlier fantasy novels are > better. Is this the Harry Turtledove that wrote "Trantor falls" in "Foundation's friends"? I admit that I haven't read anything by him but the name rings a bell... /Jonas ###### Message-ID: <395157F5.A08DD6B9@rmit.edu.au> Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:04:05 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> <39510DD7.3108BFA@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 22 Jun 2000 09:54:01 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22010 Opal Drake wrote: > > In any case, when people compare Donaldson to Tolkein and try to say > he copied things, I think that is unfair. One could just as easily > say Tolkien copied the ring motif from mythology, and hence was not > original either. hehe damn good point. there is the ring of the nibelung :) remind me if i ever write a book, not to put rings in it ;) ###### From: "The Dark Servent" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 01:08:42 EDT Organization: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149 Lines: 75 Message-ID: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> Reply-To: "The Dark Servent" NNTP-Posting-Host: dap01-150081.cora.sgi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.sysnet.net.tw 961651183 11567 209.166.150.81 (22 Jun 2000 05:19:43 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.sysnet.net.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 2000 05:19:43 GMT Version: WWIV PPP Project v2.0 Alpha-10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!News.Math.NCTU.edu.tw!ctu-peer!ctu-gate!news.nctu.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.sysnet.net.tw!n333!filenet.wwiv.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22007 RE: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien BY: "Michael Martin" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 10:08:10 +0100 Message-ID: <961665019.19069.0.nnrp-14.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> <39510DD7.3108BFA@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: [194.217.56.150] X-NNTP-Posting-Host: [194.217.56.150]:194.217.56.150 X-Trace: news.demon.co.uk 961665019 nnrp-14:19069 NO-IDENT [194.217.56.150]:194.217.56.150 X-Complaints-To: abuse@demon.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 74 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.icl.net!dispose.news.demon.net!demon!news.demon.co.uk!demon![194.217.56.150]!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22039 Oh, absolutely, I agree with you completely. Donaldson's use of the ring is totally different from Tolkien's, and I'd be the last to accuse Donaldson of copying the idea. I loved the First Chronicles (though I didn't think the second series was quite as good), and the issues that Donaldson raises about the uses of power and how it can affect the wielder. And, of course, I'm quite aware that the use of rings in mythology and literature precede both of them. We all know about the accusations that Tolkien stole the idea from ancient myths, and the response that that was the whole point. I was simply pointing out that of all the magical talismans one could choose to be of significance in a fantasy setting, Donaldson was more or less opening himself up to criticism by choosing one that was so bound up with Tolkien. I can't believe that he didn't think of the association when he specifically chose a ring to be the object of power, instead of, I don't know, a white gold locket :-) BTW, I don't necessarily agree that there's much of a difference in how Frodo and Covenant use/don't use the ring. In the second Chronicles, for example, Convenant is continually tempted to use the ring. And it's clear by the end that Covenant realises that if he does use it to defeat Foul, Despite will win anyway - not so very different from Gandalf and Galadriel's assertion that if they were to take it and cast down Sauron they would end up just as despotic. -- Daniel. "Opal Drake" wrote in message news:39510DD7.3108BFA@yahoo.com... > > > Daniel Roseman wrote: > > > > Stephen Donaldson's Chronicles of Thomas Covenant has been > > > compared to Tolkien, but I think the reviewer was referring more to the > > > epic scale of the series than any kind of similarities in storyline. > > > Well, there is the "hero makes long and difficult journey" kinda thing, > > > but that's really a fantasy convention anyway. > > > > ... and the fact that the fate of the world depends on a powerful ring... > > True, in both the central ring must not fall into the evil one's hands. > But beyond that I do not find much similarity. In Tolkien the One Ring > is a part of Sauron, possessed of a spirit of its own, and actively > tempts its wearer. The white gold ring does no such thing. In fact, > Covenant can barely get the thing to work. Its powers are much different > than the One Ring's, so much so that there is hardly any similarity. > > I think Donaldson would also point out that while the both stories > have a ring, in neither story does the fate of the world depend on > the ring per se. Rather, it depends on the bearer of the ring. > Comparing Frodo to Covenant, one can find a world of difference. > > In any case, when people compare Donaldson to Tolkein and try to say > he copied things, I think that is unfair. One could just as easily > say Tolkien copied the ring motif from mythology, and hence was not > original either. One can always compare books and find similarities > and claim plagiaraism. There are so many original things in the > Covenant series [both the first and second] that I find it hard to say > the C of TC is a derivative of LOTR. > > -- > ****************************************************** > > The Opal Dragon > > To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 16 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:26:16 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.226 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961673176 203.62.185.226 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:26:16 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:26:16 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:26:16 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22046 On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:17:39 GMT, Conrad Dunkerson wrote: >"Adrian Ratnapala" wrote in message >news:slrn8ktt5b.1ft.raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au... > >> Memory Sorrow and Thorn. (Tad Williams) >> Good book, nice twist at the end even if you can predict it. > >How can you NOT predict it? They were excellent books, but I was >extremely disappointed with the ending. It just sort of trailed >off and the cliche 'twist' at the end had been obvious since >somewhere around the second chapter of the first book. > Yes but I didn't find that to be a problem. And even if the twist was obvious, I can't actually remember seeing it done anywhere else, so I wouldn't call it a cliche. ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> <395005E2.C28CE228@rmit.edu.au> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 14 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:28:12 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.226 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961673292 203.62.185.226 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:28:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:28:12 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:28:12 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news.can.connect.com.au!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22058 On Wed, 21 Jun 2000 10:01:38 +1000, Kylie Johnson wrote: >and just after i said that about alvin maker, i got to a part in "alvin >journeyman" that could be seen as a tribute to tolkien - alvin's singing >a song he made, and one of the verses is from a dream he has and talks >about a land of mists and little people and a ring. i've gone and left >the book at home, so unfortunately i can't quote it, but someone asks >him what that verse means and he says he thinks he picked up a fragment >of someone else's dream from a long time ago or maybe even from the >future >having just said how the series had nothing to do with tolkien, that >verse made me laugh coming just when it did :) Well this sounds more like a tolkien reference than an influence. In fact it adds character. ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 17 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:30:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.226 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961673403 203.62.185.226 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:30:03 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:30:03 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:30:03 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22042 On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:05:08 -0700, China Blue Bird of Happiness wrote: >/ - Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's >/ Daughter. > >I got so angry with the characters until the end. > > >/ - Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but >/ absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. > >Got about 150 pages into it, which corresponds to about the first 15 >minutes of the plot. I tossed it; enough with the characters, DO >something. OK, never got around to Gormenghast, so I can't really talk. But how could a Tolkien fan complain about such things? ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 33 Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 11:37:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.226 X-Complaints-To: abuse@asiaonline.net X-Trace: news.interact.net.au 961673864 203.62.185.226 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:37:44 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:37:44 EST Organization: an Asia Online client - http://www.asiaonline.net/ X-Received-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 21:37:44 EST (news.interact.net.au) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.interact.net.au!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22055 On 21 Jun 2000 19:46:11 GMT, CarlEdlund wrote: >Terry Prachett's Discworld books. At worst, they're pretty good; at best, they >are truly sublime. Essential reading. There's no point in describing them >further, just read them :) Yes. > >to get a real "European" richness in a New World setting. He may be a raving >Mormon ;) but he does a good job here. The latest volume dragged a bit, i Is he a Mormon himself? I mean he was brought up as one, but is _he_ one? >Harry Turtledove's "Videssos" and "Fox" books: HT has a doctorate in Byzantine >studies and really puts it to use in these books, particularly the "Videssos" Yes, I rather like the "XYZ Legion XYZ" ones. My overall memory is that they were a bit pulpy, but I can't think why I get that impression. Why does homosexuality play such a big role in it? >more recent books, IMO, is that they have about a million viewpoint characters >each -- the "Fox" and "Videssos" books are much more tightly focused, and I >think read much better for it. In fact, they're brilliant. I Rather like the million-viewpoint style. The books get very long, but modern Fantasy and SF is so verbose that it is good to see the dead trees put to some use. I think Tad Williams and Davidin Wingrove use it excellently in Otherland and Chung Kuo (respectively). >Lloyd Alexander's "Prydein" series: Usually thought of as being for kids, these >books are really just great stuff no matter your age. If you *have* kids who >have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on >these. Somehow I couln't finish the magic couldron. Don't know why. To me it just drags. And it is not even long. ###### From: zzzzzleepy@aol.com (Zzzzzleepy) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 4 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 22 Jun 2000 14:15:24 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000622101524.17364.00000276@ng-fp1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22019 Try reading something by Mary Renault, particularly her redo of Euripides' Theseus in two volumes, "The King Must Die"and "The Bull From the Sea"--Tolkien loved them, and with good reason. Greek mythology comes alive--I always hated it, before I read these books. ###### From: "Texan Hawk" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:27:47 EDT Organization: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149 Lines: 16 Message-ID: <39523e83-n333@wwivbbs.org> Reply-To: "Texan Hawk" NNTP-Posting-Host: dap03-150172.cora.sgi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.sysnet.net.tw 961691750 22679 209.166.150.172 (22 Jun 2000 16:35:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.sysnet.net.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 2000 16:35:50 GMT Version: WWIV PPP Project v2.0 Alpha-10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.sysnet.net.tw!n333!filenet.wwiv.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:21999 RE: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien BY: The Dark Servent #2 @333 ¯we come to a series that sprawls a bit, and is somewhat difficult for people ¯with a bad time-sense to enjoy. Yes, I speak of Pern. The author recommends ¯reading them in the order in which they were published, which would be Argh, not only are some of those books relly really bad, but pern? Dude, how could you post this list!? Origin: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149 ###### From: "Texan Hawk" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 12:27:48 EDT Organization: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149 Lines: 32 Message-ID: <39523e84-n333@wwivbbs.org> References: Reply-To: "Texan Hawk" NNTP-Posting-Host: dap03-150172.cora.sgi.net Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.sysnet.net.tw 961691756 22679 209.166.150.172 (22 Jun 2000 16:35:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.sysnet.net.tw NNTP-Posting-Date: 22 Jun 2000 16:35:56 GMT Version: WWIV PPP Project v2.0 Alpha-10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!newsrouter.chello.at!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!ptdnetP!newsgate.ptd.net!newsfeed.fast.net!howland.erols.net!spring.edu.tw!feeder.seed.net.tw!news.sysnet.net.tw!n333!filenet.wwiv.net Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22000 RE: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien BY: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnap ¯ ¯On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 20:17:39 GMT, ¯ Conrad Dunkerson wrote: ¯>"Adrian Ratnapala" wrote in message ¯>news:slrn8ktt5b.1ft.raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au... ¯> ¯>> Memory Sorrow and Thorn. (Tad Williams) ¯>> Good book, nice twist at the end even if you can predict it. ¯> ¯>How can you NOT predict it? They were excellent books, but I was ¯>extremely disappointed with the ending. It just sort of trailed ¯>off and the cliche 'twist' at the end had been obvious since ¯>somewhere around the second chapter of the first book. ¯> ¯Yes but I didn't find that to be a problem. And even if the ¯twist was obvious, I can't actually remember seeing it done ¯anywhere else, so I wouldn't call it a cliche. There are some writers who are very good at writing a story, but not good at ending it well. To write a well crafted ending is, allas, an art that many do not have. Origin: Atomnos BBS * 412-766-8149 ###### From: carledlund@aol.com (CarlEdlund) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 22 Jun 2000 16:37:58 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000622123758.13983.00000038@ng-ch1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22020 >CarlEdlund wrote: >> Harry Turtledove's "Videssos" and "Fox" books: HT has a doctorate in >> Byzantine studies and really puts it to use in these books, particularly >> the "Videssos" books. HT is probably better known for his alternate >> history stuff these days, but I think his earlier fantasy novels are >> better. > >Is this the Harry Turtledove that wrote "Trantor falls" in "Foundation's >friends"? >I admit that I haven't read anything by him but the name rings a bell... It is, indeed. Cheers, Carl ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 07:46:59 -0400 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <3951FCB3.B2C427D1@erols.com> References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: Zt8fFXoaomFav6jZoUsCrZI7v8wr1IiaffjxnhKUZ6c= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 2000 01:25:37 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22068 CarlEdlund wrote: > Lloyd Alexander's "Prydein" series: Usually thought of as being for kids, these > books are really just great stuff no matter your age. Indeed. > If you *have* kids who > have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on > these. Try'em without the Potter books.(ick) > Alan Garner: _Weirdstone of Brisingamen_ and _Moon of Gomrath_. Pretty cool > stuff, as well, I've read the Weirdstone and I like it. > and also good for the Potter fans who need new reads. NO POTTER! > Gosh, I'm sure I'm forgetting a bunch of authors I really like, too :) > > Cheers, > Carl Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight Ewoks are Hobbits! ###### X-Originating-Host: 209.180.6.218 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 21 From: Prembone Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <09831da4.b1d8f7fe@usw-ex0103-024.remarq.com> References: Bytes: 626 X-Wren-Trace: eJC1nZyFwojDwJadmNKel4ejgpCUgN2HnJDRkJaJyYLPz57AxoDLyNLDxc0= Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:54:09 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.24 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 961725381 10.0.2.24 (Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:56:21 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 22 Jun 2000 18:56:21 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22162 Well, nobody's recommended Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Mists of Avalon," so I'll do the honors. Make sure you don't have any pressing appointments when you start reading it; it's hard to put down. Presently I'm reading Jack Kerouac's "The Dharma Bums," which isn't *exactly* fantasy, in a Tolkienesque sense, but has a certain expansiveness to it which might broadly be construed as a sort of fantasy. ;-) Prembone -- God was my co-pilot, but our plane crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### From: oneprincea@aol.complicated (Amanda) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 22 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jun 2000 03:30:29 GMT References: <39523e83-n333@wwivbbs.org> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000622233029.02327.00000029@nso-ff.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22128 In article <39523e83-n333@wwivbbs.org>, "Texan Hawk" wrote: >RE: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien >BY: The Dark Servent #2 @333 > >¯we come to a series that sprawls a bit, and is somewhat difficult for >people >¯with a bad time-sense to enjoy. Yes, I speak of Pern. The author recommends >¯reading them in the order in which they were published, which would be > >Argh, not only are some of those books relly really bad, but pern? Dude, how >could you post this list!? Pern is an excellent series. There is a deficit in consistency between novels, but they are fascinating as stories. -- "'Off with his head!' cried a rat. 'Give me rice and plenty of it!' shouted a confused old man who'd been waiting too long for service." The Oneprince ###### Message-ID: <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:03:57 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 23 Jun 2000 14:53:50 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 11 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mel.connect.com.au!news1.optus.net.au!optus!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22083 The Dark Servent wrote: > > RE: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien > BY: "Michael Martin" > Hi, > > I'm not sure of the spelling of the series but the first book is daggerspell > followed by darkspell, it's good. That's Katharine Kerr's Deverry series :) ###### Message-ID: <3952FB4C.2069E08A@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> <3951FCB3.B2C427D1@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:53:16 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.179.194.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961739523 207.179.194.49 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:52:03 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:52:03 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22060 Ermanna wrote: > > If you *have* kids who > > have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on > > these. > > Try'em without the Potter books.(ick) > > and also good for the Potter fans who need new reads. > > NO POTTER! What is the deal with these Harry Potter books? They seem like a marketing departments dream, but I really do not know anything about them. -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### Message-ID: <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 21 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:55:06 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.179.194.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961739634 207.179.194.49 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:53:54 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:53:54 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22061 Kylie Johnson wrote: > > Hi, > > > > I'm not sure of the spelling of the series but the first book is daggerspell > > followed by darkspell, it's good. > > That's Katharine Kerr's Deverry series :) Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them as soon as possible. -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### Message-ID: <3952FC71.9C353B63@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <09831da4.b1d8f7fe@usw-ex0103-024.remarq.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 00:58:09 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.179.194.49 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961739817 207.179.194.49 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:56:57 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 05:56:57 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22193 Are you a beatnik or something? Prembone wrote: > > Well, nobody's recommended Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Mists of > Avalon," so I'll do the honors. Make sure you don't have any > pressing appointments when you start reading it; it's hard to put > down. > > Presently I'm reading Jack Kerouac's "The Dharma Bums," which > isn't *exactly* fantasy, in a Tolkienesque sense, but has a > certain expansiveness to it which might broadly be construed as a > sort of fantasy. ;-) > > Prembone > > -- > God was my co-pilot, but our plane crashed in the mountains > and I had to eat him. > > Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. > Up to 100 minutes free! > http://www.keen.com -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 08:14:16 -0400 Lines: 34 Message-ID: <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com> References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> <3951FCB3.B2C427D1@erols.com> <3952FB4C.2069E08A@yahoo.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: mrQnMIvgZW4rWv3EujaY1xTEG9UTHcx7hhRzHXkNfEs= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 23 Jun 2000 15:31:09 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!howland.erols.net!outgoing.news.rcn.net.MISMATCH!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22071 Opal Drake wrote: > Ermanna wrote: > > > If you *have* kids who > > > have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on > > > these. > > > > Try'em without the Potter books.(ick) > > > > and also good for the Potter fans who need new reads. > > > > NO POTTER! > > What is the deal with these Harry Potter books? They seem like a > marketing departments dream, but I really do not know anything > about them. They are rip-offs. Bad ones. There's a another book or series that's too similar to be an accident, and is older and my older sister read (from a reliable reviewer) that it's better. I really don't understand what's so appealing. > ****************************************************** > > The Opal Dragon > > To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight Elbereth Gilthoniel! ###### From: pahajoki@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Kalle A. Pahajoki) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 24 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 12:26:13 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.213.37.234 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 961763173 212.213.37.234 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:13 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 15:26:13 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22095 nartio@cwavio.com wrote: >So, anyway anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? I recommend Mika Waltari's Sinuhe, the Egyptian (although it has very little fantastic elements per se), which I enjoyed immensely. I think there's a movie based on the book, but I think it (I'm not sure) is not very highly regarded. The story takes place in ancient Egypt, but I do not know how historically correct the book is. It does have some travelling (the way most fantasy books do), but usually it's very boring and least enjoyable part of the book. I'm lousy at describing books, but it's _extremely_ funny (*and* very serious), romantic, the language is masterful (I fear it might have suffered in translation) and the characters are very enjoyable. It has it's fair share of faults all right, but on the whole it is a great piece of (Finnish) literature and well worth a read. -- Kalle Pahajoki "Lapland is difficult a animals. (Lapissa on erilaisia eläimiä.)" -- A-Englannin YO-kirjoitukset ###### From: carledlund@aol.com (CarlEdlund) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jun 2000 14:21:37 GMT References: <3952FB4C.2069E08A@yahoo.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000623102137.14077.00000314@ng-ch1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22118 >What is the deal with these Harry Potter books? They seem like a >marketing departments dream, but I really do not know anything >about them. Well, I've not read them, but my girlfriend has and says they're quite good fun. Seems to have struck a chord with kids though, so I'm assuming that if kids today have read any fantasy, it's most likely to be Harry Potter books. Cheers, Carl ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39504E9F.DB0F22A6@rmit.edu.au> <20000621154611.27988.00000086@ng-xb1.aol.com> <3951FCB3.B2C427D1@erols.com> <3952FB4C.2069E08A@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 29 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:29:51 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.91.113 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 961770505 212.151.91.113 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:28:25 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:28:25 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22157 Opal Drake hath written: >Ermanna wrote: > >> > If you *have* kids who >> > have already burned through their Harry Potter books 50 times over, try 'em on >> > these. >> >> Try'em without the Potter books.(ick) > >> > and also good for the Potter fans who need new reads. >> >> NO POTTER! > >What is the deal with these Harry Potter books? They seem like a >marketing departments dream, but I really do not know anything >about them. They are about a talented boy who studies to become a wizard at a boarding school called Hogwarts College. Apparently, many kids love them, but I rather share Ermanna's feelings about them. I don't hate them, but I do not think they are particularly good either. I read the first one and started on the second, but gave up after a few chapters. Öjevind ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 18 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:32:07 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.91.113 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 961770639 212.151.91.113 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:30:39 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:30:39 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!join.news.pipex.net!pipex!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22158 Opal Drake hath written: [snip] >Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated with >extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of great stories >and adventures ahead, only to consistently disappoint time and >again. Do the world a favour - recycle them as soon as possible. I agree. I really thought they were bad. Not as bad as Terry Brooks perhaps, but still pretty awful. Why not try something else than fantasy for change? The short stories of Jorge Luis Borges are a fantastic read - a real adventure. And the *are* full of a kind of fantasy. Öjevind ###### From: pbachjson@aol.comnojunk (PaulB) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 32 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jun 2000 15:14:42 GMT References: <20000623102137.14077.00000314@ng-ch1.aol.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000623111442.02338.00000430@nso-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22127 In article <20000623102137.14077.00000314@ng-ch1.aol.com>, carledlund@aol.com (CarlEdlund) writes: >>What is the deal with these Harry Potter books? They seem like a >>marketing departments dream, but I really do not know anything >>about them. > >Well, I've not read them, but my girlfriend has and says they're quite good >fun. Seems to have struck a chord with kids though, so I'm assuming that if >kids today have read any fantasy, it's most likely to be Harry Potter books. They're a really fun read about on the reading level of the Narnia books without the allegorical overtones. I think they have the same feel as both Narnia and The Hobbit in that they are childrens stories but they do not talk down to children. There is that sense that there is a narrator that is talking directly to the reader, as in The Hobbit, but it is not there all the time so it doesn't overburden the reader. I like the plots, not that they are the most elaborate things but they do keep two or three things going at a time and help to show have even exceptional people are still people and must deal with mundane stuff regardless of how extraordinary they are. I think they are great books for kids and a pleasant read for adults who are still reading this sort of thing. I won't call Rowling a great writer, but she's much better than average. Breathe Peace PaulB "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie Anderson ###### Message-ID: <39538E7F.979B45A8@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 27 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 11:21:19 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.69.130.88 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961777209 206.69.130.88 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:20:09 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 16:20:09 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22067 "Öjevind Lång" wrote: > > Opal Drake hath written: > > [snip] > > >Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated with > >extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of great stories > >and adventures ahead, only to consistently disappoint time and > >again. Do the world a favour - recycle them as soon as possible. > > I agree. I really thought they were bad. Not as bad as Terry Brooks perhaps, > but still pretty awful. Why not try something else than fantasy for change? > The short stories of Jorge Luis Borges are a fantastic read - a real > adventure. And the *are* full of a kind of fantasy. Life is somebody else's dream.... -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:03:17 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.73.72 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961779797 12.78.73.72 (Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:03:17 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:03:17 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!proxad.net!oleane.net!oleane!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!135.173.83.20!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22106 "Opal Drake" wrote in message news:3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com... > Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated > with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of > great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently > disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them > as soon as possible. Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. ###### From: darat9999@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 17:23:44 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: 162.114.124.191 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Jun 23 17:23:44 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x54.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 162.114.124.191 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDdarat9999 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!netnews.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22085 Nartio question: "Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright?" Dear Nartio, You might want to try Ursula K. LeGuin's 'Wizard of Earth-Sea' trilogy. Excellently written, however much, much shorter than LOTR. Cheers, Paul Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: pbachjson@aol.comnojunk (PaulB) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 21 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 23 Jun 2000 18:47:07 GMT References: <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000623144707.02338.00000469@nso-cj.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22140 In article <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com>, Ermanna writes: >They are rip-offs. Bad ones. There's a another book or series that's >too similar to be an accident, and is older and my older sister read >(from a reliable reviewer) that it's better. I really don't understand >what's so appealing. > > What series is this, that I might make my own judgement? I like Harry Potter and haven't read anything that is so similar as that it might be construed to have been ripped-off. Breathe Peace PaulB "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie Anderson ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Matt Neumann Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien X-Nntp-Posting-Host: hl17l03269.tx.boeing.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Message-ID: <3953EE6A.7469E3BA@hotmail.com> Sender: nntp@news.boeing.com (Boeing NNTP News Access) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Organization: The Boeing Company X-Accept-Language: en References: <394f4c8a.8072305@news.oulu.fi> Mime-Version: 1.0 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 23:10:34 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (Win95; U) Lines: 29 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!xyzzy!nntp Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22086 Adrian Ratnapala wrote: > > On Tue, 20 Jun 2000 04:05:08 -0700, > China Blue Bird of Happiness wrote: > >/ - Lord Dunsany, anything by him will do. Try King of Elfland's > >/ Daughter. > > > >I got so angry with the characters until the end. > > > > > >/ - Mervyn Peake's "Gormenghast" trilogy. Very heavy read, but > >/ absolutely wonderful linguistic imagery and amazing characters. > > > >Got about 150 pages into it, which corresponds to about the first 15 > >minutes of the plot. I tossed it; enough with the characters, DO > >something. > > OK, never got around to Gormenghast, so I can't really talk. > But how could a Tolkien fan complain about such things? I'd have to second this question; part of the joy of both Tolkien and Peake is the deliberate pacing. If you want an action-packed fantasy blockbuster, there are really plenty to choose from. I'm surprised that someone who likes Tolkien _doesn't_ like Gormenghast. Well, except for the end of the third book anyway, but that was hardly his fault... -Matt ###### Message-ID: <3953FA61.96684BB3@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <394EBCE8.A1411691@rmit.edu.au> <961496361.8473.0.nnrp-01.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> <39510DD7.3108BFA@yahoo.com> <961665019.19069.0.nnrp-14.c2d93896@news.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 69 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:01:37 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.69.130.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961804839 206.69.130.55 (Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:00:39 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:00:39 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!diablo.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!newsfeed.icl.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22195 Daniel Roseman wrote: > > Oh, absolutely, I agree with you completely. Donaldson's use of the ring is > totally different from Tolkien's, and I'd be the last to accuse Donaldson of > copying the idea. I loved the First Chronicles (though I didn't think the > second series was quite as good), and the issues that Donaldson raises about > the uses of power and how it can affect the wielder. OK, I was just making sure. I can get rather petulantly defensive about Donaldson sometimes as well. BTW, I liked the 2nd Chronicles better, for I think the writing improved, as did the flow of the narrative. > I was simply pointing out that of all the magical talismans one could choose > to be of significance in a fantasy setting, Donaldson was more or less > opening himself up to criticism by choosing one that was so bound up with > Tolkien. I can't believe that he didn't think of the association when he > specifically chose a ring to be the object of power, instead of, I don't > know, a white gold locket :-) I suspect that if he could go back in time and rewrite the story he might change that aspect. On the other hand, the Illearth Stone was a pretty creative idea, as was the Staff of Law. It makes sense, though, that whatever the talisman was that Covenant were to use would have to be something he would wear all the time, so as to insure that he always had it with him when he went to the Land. Body jewelry is the only thing that really fits, and a ring is the most unlikely to fall off. > BTW, I don't necessarily agree that there's much of a difference in how > Frodo and Covenant use/don't use the ring. In the second Chronicles, for > example, Convenant is continually tempted to use the ring. And it's clear by > the end that Covenant realises that if he does use it to defeat Foul, > Despite will win anyway - not so very different from Gandalf and Galadriel's > assertion that if they were to take it and cast down Sauron they would end > up just as despotic. Well, in the Second Chronicles it wasn the white gold ring that was 'tempting' Covenant, rather it was Marid's venom that was doing so. And Covenant *doesn't* use the ring to defeat Foul. If you will allow me to refresh you a bit, Covenant does just exactly what Foul said he would do - he gave Foul the white gold. But the truth of Mhoram's statement - 'You are the white gold' - was revealed, for Covenant *was* white gold, and he stopped Foul by blocking him with his own spirit. I do not think anyone would claim Frodo *was* the One Ring. Yikes, if that were the case then that would mean the Free Peoples had surely lost! I think the consequences of their succumbing to their respective temptations would have been markedly different as well. Frodo does indeed give in to the Ring at last, but Gollum's intercession prevents the inevitable consequences, i.e., Frodo turning into Sauron, from happening. If this *had* happened, Middle-Earth could have come under the domination of evil. If Covenant, on the other hand, had succumbed to the temptation to use the white gold, he would have rended and world and destroyed the Arch of Time, thus allowing Lord Foul to roam free. Indeed, he nearly did so at the One Tree. The One Ring was more of a morally subversive evil, whereas the danger of the white gold was uncontrollable raw power. -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### Message-ID: <3953FB85.9950E9C6@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 23 Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 19:06:29 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.69.130.55 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961805120 206.69.130.55 (Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:05:20 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:05:20 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!HSNX.atgi.net!nuq-feed.news.verio.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22063 nartio@cwavio.com wrote: > > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Well, while Margaret Weis and Tracy Hickman have turned out a large amount of forgettable DragonLance and other D&D tripe, they did write an excellent, and rather unconventional, series called The Darksword Trilogy. I was really quite surprised by that series, for after the terribly disappointing climax to the Deathgate Cycle, I wasn't sure I wanted to ever read an MW & TH book ever again [although I will say Elven Star was deliciously suspenseful]. -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### From: "Jonas Thorell" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <20000622123758.13983.00000038@ng-ch1.aol.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6700 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 00:53:07 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.178.167.4 X-Complaints-To: news@bahnhof.se X-Trace: dummy.bahnhof.se 961807987 195.178.167.4 (Sat, 24 Jun 2000 02:53:07 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 02:53:07 MET DST Organization: Bahnhof Customer News Posting Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!algonet!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!dummy.bahnhof.se!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22115 CarlEdlund wrote: > >Is this the Harry Turtledove that wrote "Trantor falls" in "Foundation's > >friends"? > >I admit that I haven't read anything by him but the name rings a bell... > It is, indeed. Sorry for the OT but...have you or anyone else here read the story in question? If so, is it any good? Especially compared to the works of the Master himself (Master isn't related to Tolkien here...) /Jonas ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:57:44 -0400 Lines: 39 Message-ID: <39540785.B5537A3C@erols.com> References: <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com> <20000623144707.02338.00000469@nso-cj.aol.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: PtmcH8TvjHSUfBCR0AP9cp6gNVW9dRdblCCVOHCz5wg= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2000 01:29:35 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!europa.netcrusader.net!207.172.3.37!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22190 PaulB wrote: > In article <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com>, Ermanna writes: > >They are rip-offs. Bad ones. There's a another book or series that's > >too similar to be an accident, and is older and my older sister read > >(from a reliable reviewer) that it's better. I really don't understand > >what's so appealing. > > What series is this, that I might make my own judgement? I can't remember. I'm not very good at remembering things I've only heard once, and I'm NOT waking her up! > I like Harry Potter You're entitled to your own opinion, I suppose. > and haven't read anything that is so similar as that it might be construed to > have been ripped-off. I think my older sister's looking for it. It sounds very interesting. > Breathe > Peace > PaulB > > "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their > will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT Oh, goody! I can ask where you got this without doing another post! > "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie Anderson Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight Ewoks are Hobbits! ###### From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder05.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jun 2000 03:34:26 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000623233426.24209.00004792@ng-fp1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.131!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22124 >So, anyway >anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Yes several all earlier than Tolkien. Any of James Branch Cabell's fantasies. He is my favorite. Try Jurgen or Cream of the Jest First. Lord Dunsany. A real stylist. Arthur Machen HP Lovecraft: The greatest Horror writer. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ###### From: "PAULINE WILLIAMS" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 13:02:23 +0100 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 19 Message-ID: <8j27mi$4hm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-107.eldacar.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk 961847826 4662 62.136.179.107 (24 Jun 2000 11:57:06 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Jun 2000 11:57:06 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!news1.ebone.net!news.ebone.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22130 wrote in message news:8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com... > Nartio question: "Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number > of times and ejoyed them immensely, however I haven't read any other > fantasy because I think it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because > it doesn't seem likley that any other fantasy work is likley to measure > up to TLOTR. So, anyway anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is > alright?" I don't know if it really counts as fantasy, but Philip Pullman's Dark Materials books are wonderful. There are as yet only two books in the trilogy called Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife. They are really, really good reads so definitely give these a go. Anyone else read these? Pauline ###### X-Originating-Host: 4.16.60.23 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 15 From: aorel Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <10cd2af7.3a2f55fd@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com> References: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8j27mi$4hm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> Bytes: 556 X-Wren-Trace: eMPmzs/WkduQgtjZw4/iwt7E3sfPy83WycKMlISGjM2alc2Qng== Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:00:00 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.84 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 961873335 10.0.2.84 (Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:02:15 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 12:02:15 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!newsfeed.Austria.EU.net!nmaster.kpnqwest.net!npeer.kpnqwest.net!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.stanford.edu!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22228 Hi, all I was wondering, while on the topic of other fantasy writers... Did most of you read Tolkien first and then have to judge all future fantasy on Tolkien? Have any of you (and this is a dangerous question in this group :-) ) found fantasy you consider BETTER? And which criteria do you use to judge whether an author is blatantly ripping Tolkien off (plot, mood, etc.)? Anyway, I find this topic very interesting, so just curious. Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### From: pbachjson@aol.comnojunk (PaulB) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 73 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Jun 2000 22:32:40 GMT References: <39540785.B5537A3C@erols.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000624183240.23154.00003319@nso-fx.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.skycache.com!Cidera!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22220 In article <39540785.B5537A3C@erols.com>, Ermanna writes: >> PaulB >> >> "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their >> will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT > >Oh, goody! I can ask where you got this without doing another post! > >Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight I found it in "A Question of Time: J. R. R. Tolkien's Road to Faërie" by Verlyn Flieger. It is part of an 'unpublished note headed "Elvish time" tucked in manuscripts from about this period.' (The period being the time around 1936-37 when he was working on "The Lost Road.") The extended excerpt that I culled it from is as follows: 'In Elvish sentiment the _future_ was not one of hope or desire, but a decay and retrogression from former bliss and power. Though inevitably it lay _ahead_, as if one on a journey, "looking forward" did not imply anticipation or delight. "I look forward to seeing you again" did not mean or imply "Iwish to see you again, and since that is arranged/and or (1) very likely, I am pleased." It meant simply "I expect to see you again with the certainty of foresight (in some circumstances) or regard that as very probably — it might be with fear or dislike, '_foreboding_' " Their position, as of latter day sentiment, was one of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." No specific cataloging of the note is given in the notes to the book. Except for what I consider poorly _accessable_ notes, I enjoyed the book and look forward to my next reading of LotR with ms. Flieger's ideas in mind. She works to show the conection between Tolkiens ideas of time travel, which occur though some action of dreams in "The Lost Road" and "The Notion Club Papers" with various dream sequences in LotR and also with the time spent in Lorien. She also touches upon "The Sea Bells" and "Smith of Wooten Major" as well. The second half of the sig, >> "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie >Anderson > Comes from a song called "The Dream Before (for Walter Benjamin)" the second half of which is as follows: She said: What is history? And he said: History is an angel Being blown backwards into the future He said: History is a pile of debris And the angel wants to go back and fix things To repair the things that have been broken But there is a storm blowing from Paradise And the storm keeps blowing the angel Backwards into the future. And this storm, this storm is called Progress I thought of it immediately as I read the quote of Tolkien's and thought they deserved to be read together somewhere. Breathe Peace PaulB "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie Anderson ###### From: "Dave Lind" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 00:05:36 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.0.62.34 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.mi.home.com 961891536 24.0.62.34 (Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:05:36 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 24 Jun 2000 17:05:36 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.mi.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22225 "Conrad Dunkerson" wrote in message news:pLM45.16855$C44.981429@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net... > "Opal Drake" wrote in message > news:3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com... > > > Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated > > with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of > > great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently > > disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them > > as soon as possible. > > Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series > is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. > They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in > nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. I also liked the Dyneri stories. But each trilogy followed the same formula which made them more than just a bit predictable. Dave ###### Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 03:01:29 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.78.71.6 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 961902089 12.78.71.6 (Sun, 25 Jun 2000 03:01:29 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 03:01:29 GMT Organization: AT&T Worldnet Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmasters3!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22211 "Dave Lind" wrote in message news:k1c55.10775$fR2.116246@news1.rdc1.mi.home.com... > I also liked the Dyneri stories. But each trilogy followed the > same formula which made them more than just a bit predictable. I suspect you mean the 'Deryni' stories... which are written by Katherine Kurtz as opposed to Katherine Kerr. Also good books, though some (NOT all) are, as you say, somewhat predictable. -- "Even the Christmas vacation will be darkened by New Zealand scripts..." - JRR Tolkien ###### Reply-To: "Steve Estes" From: "Steve Estes" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8j27mi$4hm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> <10cd2af7.3a2f55fd@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Sun, 25 Jun 2000 04:30:20 -0500 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2919.6600 Lines: 41 Message-ID: <3955d129$0$33690$726baab@news.execpc.com> Organization: ExecPC Internet - Milwaukee, WI NNTP-Posting-Host: 93711a4a.news.execpc.com X-Trace: DXC=nCM2n4U55`_NZUVAGj=[M^2BE>7J@WeM\bCigiU>8_hX4`>8YbCYbk]^@GRYD_jmb_DHEad] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!newspump.sol.net!news.execpc.com!newspeer.sol.net!posts0.nwblwi.newsops.execpc.com!posts.news.execpc.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22315 Jurgan James Branch Cabell One of the fantasies written in the twenties, its will still hold up. There is allot more available. Anything by Charles Williams. Williams is the interesting Inkling. The Perelandra Trilogy CS Lewis Directly influenced by both Tolkein and Williams. Islandia August Tappan Wright The great utopian novel. This is my favorite 'fantasy'. I will admit to reading LOTR on a more regular basis. As a note, I first read LOTR in the Ace edition back in '66 - '67, so I have compared them all, and except for the above they are all lacking. I suspect that most authors are ripping off Crevantes and von Eshenbach more than they are JRRT. ----- Original Message ----- From: "aorel" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Sent: Saturday, June 24, 2000 2:00 PM Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien > Hi, all > > I was wondering, while on the topic of other fantasy writers... > > Did most of you read Tolkien first and then have to judge all > future fantasy on Tolkien? Have any of you (and this is a > dangerous question in this group :-) ) found fantasy you > consider BETTER? And which criteria do you use to judge whether > an author is blatantly ripping Tolkien off (plot, mood, etc.)? > Anyway, I find this topic very interesting, so just curious. > ###### Message-ID: <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:40:15 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 26 Jun 2000 10:29:49 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 18 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!skywalker.ou.edu!news1.optus.net.au!optus!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22255 Conrad Dunkerson wrote: > > "Opal Drake" wrote in message > news:3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com... > > > Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated > > with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of > > great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently > > disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them > > as soon as possible. > > Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series > is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. > They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in > nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. I agree. They're no LOTR, but they're still way better than Eddings and Piers Anthony. I'm hanging out for the next one :) ###### Message-ID: <3956E721.B2795568@hotmail.com> From: "Michael P. Higgins" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 26 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 05:16:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 151.202.94.254 X-Complaints-To: newsadmin@bellatlantic.net X-Trace: typhoon1.ba-dsg.net 961996616 151.202.94.254 (Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:16:56 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 01:16:56 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!199.45.45.9!cyclone2.ba-dsg.net!typhoon1.ba-dsg.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22265 C.J.Cherryh...Fortress In The Eye Of Time and its sequels Andre Norton...The Witch World series Glen Cook...The Black Company series and, I beleive, the books about the Dread Empire (mostly out of print, I think) Kylie Johnson wrote: > Conrad Dunkerson wrote: > > > > "Opal Drake" wrote in message > > news:3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com... > > > > > Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated > > > with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of > > > great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently > > > disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them > > > as soon as possible. > > > > Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series > > is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. > > They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in > > nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. > > I agree. They're no LOTR, but they're still way better than Eddings and > Piers Anthony. I'm hanging out for the next one :) ###### Message-ID: <3956E9E9.7E6A9A67@yahoo.com> From: Opal Drake Reply-To: opalSPAMdrake@yahooBLOCK.com Organization: Left Wing Enterprises X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 31 Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 00:28:09 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.179.194.193 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: ord-read.news.verio.net 961997216 207.179.194.193 (Mon, 26 Jun 2000 05:26:56 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 05:26:56 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!ord-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22251 Kylie Johnson wrote: > > Conrad Dunkerson wrote: > > > > "Opal Drake" wrote in message > > news:3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com... > > > > > Warning: Any Katherine Kerr books one picks up should be treated > > > with extreme caution. They will lull you in with a sense of > > > great stories and adventures ahead, only to consistently > > > disappoint time and again. Do the world a favour - recycle them > > > as soon as possible. > > > > Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series > > is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. > > They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in > > nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. > > I agree. They're no LOTR, but they're still way better than Eddings and > Piers Anthony. I'm hanging out for the next one :) Is that supposed to be a compliment to Kerr? :) -- ****************************************************** The Opal Dragon To E-mail me, remove 'SPAM BLOCK' from return address. ###### From: d_ketchum@my-deja.com Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Mon, 26 Jun 2000 07:14:37 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 13 Message-ID: <8j6vsm$q5m$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> <3956E9E9.7E6A9A67@yahoo.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: 63.255.215.5 X-Article-Creation-Date: Mon Jun 26 07:14:37 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; MSN 2.6; Windows 98; DigExt) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x63.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 63.255.215.5 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDd_ketchum Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22284 Have you read H. Beam Piper's "Lord Kalvin of Otherwhen"? It makes a nice change of pace. Of course, for a real change of pace I liked "Pilgrims Progress" and Dante's "Inferno". And then there's Milton and "Paradise Lost". I really like Satan in this, though of course that's not what Milton intended. But then, I always pull for the underdog. *Totally unrelated, but does anyone here know where you can get a freeware OCR program that has no strings attached? Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### Message-ID: <395807CA.697B1815@rmit.edu.au> Date: Tue, 27 Jun 2000 11:47:54 +1000 From: Kylie Johnson X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> <3956E9E9.7E6A9A67@yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Host: miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au X-Trace: 27 Jun 2000 11:37:21 +1000, miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Lines: 22 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!netnews.com!europa.netcrusader.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!nsw.nnrp.telstra.net!news.syd.connect.com.au!news.mel.connect.com.au!newshub1.rdc1.nsw.optushome.com.au!harbinger.cc.monash.edu.au!vrn.edu.au!mercury.its.rmit.edu.au!miragia.bf.rmit.edu.au Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22389 Opal Drake wrote: > > Kylie Johnson wrote: > > > > I agree. They're no LOTR, but they're still way better than Eddings and > > Piers Anthony. I'm hanging out for the next one :) > > Is that supposed to be a compliment to Kerr? :) hehe Not much of a compliment, is it ;) Whilst I can see how some people might not like her stuff, for some reason, I just really click with the way the series unfolds and the way the characters are written and so on. I think the structure is quite original in that she doesn't seem to follow a formula at all, just kinda twists the story together in a big mess. I like that :) I like her style. I'd try to explain more clearly, but I don't really have the time :( I got frustrated enough with the lack of availability in libraries that I actually went out and bought them all, which is something I don't often do :) K ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8jdl2r$c40l$1@ID-23037.news.cis.dfn.de> Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 17 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: <6FO65.8412$rH5.21161@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:52:48 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.87.221 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 962311874 212.151.87.221 (Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:51:14 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 29 Jun 2000 22:51:14 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!unlisys!news.snafu.de!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22580 Andrew Wells hath written: >nartio@cwavio.com wrote in message ... [snip] So, anyway >>anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? > >The Narnia books by C. S. Lewis >The Discworld books by Terry Pratchett >The Earthsea books by Ursula K. Le Guin Mother Balrog's Dietary Dreamcake. Öjevind ###### X-Originating-Host: 168.191.102.12 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 37 From: Prembone Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <22834550.4db813c0@usw-ex0104-087.remarq.com> References: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <8j27mi$4hm$1@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk> Bytes: 1228 X-Wren-Trace: ePXQ+Pngp+2mpfP4/bf78uLG5/Xx5bji+fW09fPsrOSsq/ulouSuqqmmv6Gp Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:20:50 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.87 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon3 962404453 10.0.2.87 (Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:34:13 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:34:13 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22655 "PAULINE WILLIAMS" wrote: >I don't know if it really counts as fantasy, but Philip >Pullman's Dark Materials books are wonderful. I would say they are fantasy. In fact, I meant to recommend that series in my post (the third book is due in September) but forgot. Here I'll simply second your recommendation; I can't judge the whole series till I've read the conclusion, but so far it's been fascinating, though some of the gender relations in the books have me wondering if fantasy writers have ever heard of feminism. ;-) Yet the series shows promise; we'll see how it pans out. > There are as yet only two books in the >trilogy called Northern Lights and The Subtle Knife For American readers, the first book is being sold under the title "The Golden Compass." I have no idea why they used two different titles for UK and US marketing. Prembone ..the feminist beatnik hippie chick poet novelist. -- God was my co-pilot, but our plane crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### X-Originating-Host: 168.191.102.12 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 25 From: Prembone Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <3470784b.4e69a929@usw-ex0104-087.remarq.com> References: <09831da4.b1d8f7fe@usw-ex0103-024.remarq.com> <3952FC71.9C353B63@yahoo.com> Bytes: 682 X-Wren-Trace: eLWQuLmg563m5bO4vfe7sqKGp7WxpfiiubX0tbOs7KTs67vl4qTu6unm/+Hp Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:24:01 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.87 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon3 962404643 10.0.2.87 (Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:37:23 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 30 Jun 2000 15:37:23 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!cyclone.bc.net!HSNX.atgi.net!feeder.via.net!news.he.net!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon3.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22657 Opal Drake wrote: >Are you a beatnik or something? Because I'm reading a book by Jack Kerouac, or because I recommended Marion Zimmer Bradley's "Mists of Avalon"? ;-) Does simply reading a book make me a beatnik? How came you by this hypothesis? Prembone ..who is part Bohemian, and also hangs out in coffeehouses reading poetry, so maybe *is* a beatnik of the Third Millenium. -- God was my co-pilot, but our plane crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### From: steve.rhoades@maried.with.children.com (Ted Douglas) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 13:31:52 GMT Organization: The Department Lines: 54 Message-ID: <395df18e.65979899@enews.newsguy.com> References: <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com> <20000623144707.02338.00000469@nso-cj.aol.com> <39540785.B5537A3C@erols.com> Reply-To: steve.rhoades@married.with.children.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-088.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.netcologne.de!skynet.be!208.171.248.21.MISMATCH!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22647 To me, the Potter books seems to be a rip-off from a comic book actually, though I'm sure it's purely coincidental, but when I look at the Potter books (just the covers, I haven't read them, I'm reminded of Tim Hunter. "The Books of Magic", originally a 4-issue limited series written by Neil Gaiman. Basically, it's about an 11-year old ordinary boy with giant glasses who just happens to have the potential to become the world's greatests sorcerer, and he is being taken on a journey to learn about magic and to use his own magic powers. On Fri, 23 Jun 2000 20:57:44 -0400, Ermanna wrote: > > >PaulB wrote: >> In article <39535497.D1C9BED8@erols.com>, Ermanna writes: >> >They are rip-offs. Bad ones. There's a another book or series that's >> >too similar to be an accident, and is older and my older sister read >> >(from a reliable reviewer) that it's better. I really don't understand >> >what's so appealing. >> >> What series is this, that I might make my own judgement? > >I can't remember. I'm not very good at remembering things I've only >heard once, >and I'm NOT waking her up! > >> I like Harry Potter > >You're entitled to your own opinion, I suppose. > >> and haven't read anything that is so similar as that it might be construed to >> have been ripped-off. > >I think my older sister's looking for it. It sounds very interesting. > >> Breathe >> Peace >> PaulB >> >> "[The Elves] position, ..., was one of exiles driven forward (against their >> will) who were in mind or actual posture ever looking backward." JRRT > >Oh, goody! I can ask where you got this without doing another post! > >> "History is an angel being blown backward into the future" — Laurie Anderson > >Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight > >Ewoks are Hobbits! > ###### From: steve.rhoades@maried.with.children.com (Ted Douglas) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Sat, 01 Jul 2000 13:40:04 GMT Organization: The Department Lines: 22 Message-ID: <395df32c.66393725@enews.newsguy.com> References: <39519f5b-n333@wwivbbs.org> <3952EFBD.B16ABDE3@rmit.edu.au> <3952FBBA.D1375385@yahoo.com> <3956A66F.389E1033@rmit.edu.au> Reply-To: steve.rhoades@married.with.children.com NNTP-Posting-Host: p-228.newsdawg.com X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.21/32.243 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!upp1.onvoy!onvoy.com!pln-e!spln!dex!extra.newsguy.com!newsp.newsguy.com!enews1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22644 On Mon, 26 Jun 2000 10:40:15 +1000, Kylie Johnson wrote: >> >> Actually, I found several of these books quite good. The series >> is certainly slow in places, but nevertheless very interesting. >> They aren't all particularly 'action & adventure' oriented in >> nature, but there ARE other things which can make for a good story. > >I agree. They're no LOTR, but they're still way better than Eddings and >Piers Anthony. I'm hanging out for the next one :) I would say Kerr's books have picked up the pace again after two really weak entries (Days of Air and Darkness/A Time of War/Days of Blood and Fire/A Time of Justice er, not sure about the US/UK-names really), but the latest two, Red Wyvern and the new Black Raven are much better, so if the Days of/A Time of-whatever-books made you stop reading the new ones are worth reading! One word of warning, Red Wyvern goes back to the Civil War from the earliest books in the series so it's good to have these around for reference :) ###### From: Maia Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 01:43:32 +0200 Organization: Vienna University, Austria Lines: 38 Message-ID: <39612524.20CE8541@unet.univie.ac.at> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: unet3-155.univie.ac.at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: www.univie.ac.at 962667228 86842 131.130.232.155 (3 Jul 2000 23:33:48 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-adm@news.univie.ac.at NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Jul 2000 23:33:48 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322k (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!newscore.univie.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!news.univie.ac.at!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22893 nartio@cwavio.com schrieb: > > Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number of times and ejoyed > them immensely, however I haven't read any other fantasy because I think > it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because it doesn't seem likley > that any other fantasy work is likley to measure up to TLOTR. So, anyway > anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is alright? Actually, there was fantasy before Tolkien (Dunsany, Arthuriana, Hoffmann, etc), so it hardly can be all derivative ;). And there is plenty of good fantasy which is totally unlike Tolkien. I.e. : T.H. White "The Once and Future King" - it's first part having been made into a cartoon doesn't detract anything from the quality. Nor is it really YA, especially not the latter parts... IMHO, White is "the father of modern Arthuriana" ;). Ursula K. Le Guin "Wizard of the Earthsea". Jack Vance "Lyonesse". From the newer things I'd say: Anything by Guy Gavriel Kay except his "Fionavar tapestry" (which is a Tolkien rip-off, though the best that I have seen so far). OTOH, his standalones are excellent pseudo-historical fantasy. George RR Martin "The Song of Ice and Fire" - another excellent pseudo-medieval fantasy series, with quite dark and "realistic" (in the sense of intrigue, "blood and mud") bend. Warning: the main characters do get seriously hurt and killed. It is an ongoing series, however, with the third book being due in a month in the UK, in Fall in the US. C.S. Friedman "The Coldfire Trilogy". A good, quite original fantasy/SF crossover. Robin Hobb "The Liveship Traders" and "The Farseers" ###### X-Originating-Host: 4.16.60.55 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 18 From: aorel Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <0160a808.4e7773ad@usw-ex0103-085.remarq.com> References: <39612524.20CE8541@unet.univie.ac.at> Bytes: 677 X-Wren-Trace: ePjd9fTtquCruePi+LTZ+eX/5fz08Pbt8vm3r7+9t/ahrvasow== Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:25:23 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.85 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 962677673 10.0.2.85 (Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:27:53 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 03 Jul 2000 19:27:53 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!sn-xit-03!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22911 > >Anything by Guy Gavriel Kay except his "Fionavar tapestry" (which is a >Tolkien rip-off, though the best that I have seen so far). I read part of the Fionavar Tapestry. It didn't really interest me so I stopped after the first book. I really didn't see it as a Tolkien rip-off. Why do you think it was (I'm just curious, not dissing your idea or anything)? Wasn't it about some Canadian college students who got transported to a different world or am I mixing that up with something else? ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### From: Maia Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 15:52:30 +0200 Organization: Vienna University, Austria Lines: 29 Message-ID: <3961EC1E.AA00F275@unet.univie.ac.at> References: <39612524.20CE8541@unet.univie.ac.at> <0160a808.4e7773ad@usw-ex0103-085.remarq.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: unet3-142.univie.ac.at Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: www.univie.ac.at 962718172 107048 131.130.232.142 (4 Jul 2000 13:42:52 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news-adm@news.univie.ac.at NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Jul 2000 13:42:52 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0322k (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!grolier!newsfeed.ision.net!ision!newscore.univie.ac.at!aconews.univie.ac.at!news.univie.ac.at!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22894 aorel schrieb: > > > > >Anything by Guy Gavriel Kay except his "Fionavar tapestry" > (which is a > >Tolkien rip-off, though the best that I have seen so far). > > I read part of the Fionavar Tapestry. It didn't really interest > me so I stopped after the first book. I really didn't see it as > a Tolkien rip-off. Why do you think it was (I'm just curious, > not dissing your idea or anything)? Wasn't it about some > Canadian college students who got transported to a different > world or am I mixing that up with something else? Well, I haven't even finished the first book, although I adore all the other works by Kay ;). But IIRC the world they got transported into was pretty Tolkienesque, with Lios Alfar strongly remeniscent of Tolkien's High Elves, the wizard strongly resembling Gandalf and complete with an Evil One associated with a mountain. IIRC the students themselves pretty much filled the roles of the hobbits in LOTR (i.e. the average people suddenly forced into a magical, wonderous and dangerous world), etc. And Kay himself admitted that with "Fionavar Tapestry" he was "getting Tolkien out of his system" or something similar. His other books are nothing like it, BTW - very original and enjoyable. And they are standalones and one duology, not the never-ending series ;). ###### From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 18 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 05 Jul 2000 04:20:33 GMT References: <10cd2af7.3a2f55fd@usw-ex0102-084.remarq.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000705002033.02128.00000574@ng-fg1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22980 > >Hi, all > >I was wondering, while on the topic of other fantasy writers... > >Did most of you read Tolkien first and then have to judge all >future fantasy on Tolkien? Have any of you (and this is a >dangerous question in this group :-) ) found fantasy you >consider BETTER? And which criteria do you use to judge whether >an author is blatantly ripping Tolkien off (plot, mood, etc.)? >Anyway, I find this topic very interesting, so just curious. I did read Tolkien first but it is still tied for first as my favorite. James Branch Cabell is the other. His works are quite different and resonate more personally with me. I do not recommend him to everyone though, it takes a particular mindset to appreciate him. He is at once the most Cynical and the most romantic of writers. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ###### From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 10 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 05 Jul 2000 04:22:10 GMT References: <3955d129$0$33690$726baab@news.execpc.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000705002210.02128.00000575@ng-fg1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22978 >Jurgan James Branch Cabell >One of the fantasies written in the twenties, its will still hold up. There >is allot more available. OOO another Cabell fan. I just posted recommending him. I"ve read the entire Biography, what have you read. I think Cream of the Jest is my favorite, with Jurgen being a very close second. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ###### X-Originating-Host: 4.16.60.31 Organization: http://www.remarq.com: The World's Usenet/Discussions Start Here Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 42 From: aorel Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Message-ID: <08c74f3e.c5db35f4@usw-ex0105-040.remarq.com> References: <39612524.20CE8541@unet.univie.ac.at> <0160a808.4e7773ad@usw-ex0103-085.remarq.com> <3961EC1E.AA00F275@unet.univie.ac.at> Bytes: 1332 X-Wren-Trace: eCAFLSw1cjhzYTs6IGwBIT0nPSQsKC41KiFvd2dlby55di5yfw== Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:25:47 -0700 NNTP-Posting-Host: 10.0.2.40 X-Complaints-To: wrenabuse@remarq.com X-Trace: WReNphoon4 962771234 10.0.2.40 (Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:27:14 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 04 Jul 2000 21:27:14 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!psinet-eu-nl!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!look.ca!news-out.nibble.net!news-in.nibble.net!sn-xit-02!supernews.com!sn-inject-01!WReNclone!WReNphoon4.POSTED!WReN!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:22996 > >Well, I haven't even finished the first book, although I adore all the >other works by Kay ;). >But IIRC the world they got transported into was pretty Tolkienesque, >with Lios Alfar strongly remeniscent of Tolkien's High Elves, the >wizard strongly resembling Gandalf and complete with an Evil One >associated with a mountain. IIRC the students themselves pretty much >filled the roles of the hobbits in LOTR (i.e. the average people >suddenly forced into a magical, wonderous and dangerous world), etc. > >And Kay himself admitted that with "Fionavar Tapestry" he was "getting >Tolkien out of his system" or something similar. > >His other books are nothing like it, BTW - very original and >enjoyable. And they are standalones and one duology, not the >never-ending series ;). > I see what you're saying in that it follows the general fantasy quest formula :-) . I just didn't see as much Tolkien ripping off as say in some of Terry Brooks' earlier works (Sword of Shannara comes to mind). I should try to read some of Kay's other books. I'm afraid I was turned off by him after starting the Fionavar Tapestry. ----------------------------------------------------------- Got questions? Get answers over the phone at Keen.com. Up to 100 minutes free! http://www.keen.com ###### From: gair42@aol.com (Gair42) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Other Fantasy Besides Tolkien Lines: 13 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 05 Jul 2000 20:29:01 GMT References: <8j06ec$a90$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000705162901.27359.00000200@ng-fz1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!codeine.org!fr.usenet-edu.net!usenet-edu.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:23055 > Nartio question: "Hi, I've read TLOTR along with The Hobbit a number >of times and ejoyed them immensely, however I haven't read any other >fantasy because I think it'll all be derivative of Tolkien and because >it doesn't seem likley that any other fantasy work is likley to measure >up to TLOTR. So, anyway anyone have suggestions for fantasy which is >alright? Hope Mirlees' Lud-In-The-Mist is an excellent fantasy that runs along the lines of "Leaf By Niggle" by JRRT. You can usually find a copy at a used bookstore as it has not been in print since the Ballantine Fantasy series of the late 60's and early 70's.