From: pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho P. Pahajoki) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 53 Date: Sun, 28 May 2000 21:24:44 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.213.37.36 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 959549084 212.213.37.36 (Mon, 29 May 2000 00:24:44 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 29 May 2000 00:24:44 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!uni-erlangen.de!newsfeed1.telenordia.se!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20129 Durin VII wrote: >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. > >------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BFC6F9.0A188A40 >Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable [...] > > > Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Date: 29 May 2000 22:49:24 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 85 Message-ID: <6u1z2ljd4b.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 959633364 516 10.0.3.2 (29 May 2000 20:49:24 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 29 May 2000 20:49:24 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20254 pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho P. Pahajoki) writes: > Durin VII wrote: > >This is a multi-part message in MIME format. And an nearly unreadable one :-). > >------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BFC6F9.0A188A40 > >Content-Type: text/plain; > > charset="iso-8859-1" > >Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable > [...] > > > > > > > I'm sorry, I know I'm a whiner for posting these messages, but could > you two (Durin, Carl Blondin) fix your news agents? Seeing the kind of > mess that's pictured above is quite annoying I second that one. HTML in Mails and News is massivly annoying. > you've got to say, too! Fixing would mean turning off quoted-printable > encoding and/or setting the news agent so that it doesn't post HTML, > only plain text. Its mainly the HTML that does it in. The q-p is ugly but not unreadable. > The reason I whine of these things is that not everybodys news reader > can HTML or quoted-printable (mine doesn't). Nor does mine. And a lot of other peoples ones. > even more. I believe that the size of a full newsfeed these days is > several gigs per day, although the binary groups generate a lot of > it. It was 6GByte/day about 3 yeara ago (said my then provider). Binaries are said to be about 90-95% of the volume. > Imagine how much it would be, if every post would take an average of > 30k because everything were HTML instead of the 3k that it now takes > Ok, maybe 30k for a HTML posting is a bit too much, but 15 certainly > isn't. Actually factor 5 is nearer to the mark. > By using that figure, the size of my rabt spool would be 40M > instead of 8M, if all posts were in HTML. And that's only rabt. I order > maybe 25 groups, which in total ATM take 64M. That would be over 300M, > and this is 25 groups out of the tens of thousands. I don't want to > give 300M of my meager hard disk space to news, if it could be as > small as 60M. Harmless. I have here 600M for 5 groups. That would become 3G. Oops, new hard disk, or expire faster :-(. > And while I'm ranting, please cut unneeded quotation That also helps make post more readable. Because one sees quicker what is being refered to. > and put your own > stuff under the quoted part! Yes. Text is read fron top to bottom according to english tradition. That means lower down = later. So followups (which are later) should be lower down. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Line User Environment)? ###### From: Orac Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! Organization: The most powerful computer in the galaxy References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> <39334536.8E028140@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 24 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:53:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.219.233.213 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 959691234 130.219.233.213 (Tue, 30 May 2000 05:53:54 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 05:53:54 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!lsanca1-snf1!news.gtei.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20334 In article <39334536.8E028140@erols.com>, jsolinas@erols.com wrote: >"Juho P. Pahajoki" wrote: > >> *Looking back on what I've written* Sorry for the lenghty rant, I guess >> that seeing two unreadable messages in a row caused a temporary state >> of insanity. This is not a personal attack against anyone, please >> don't be hurt. > >OK, since Juho is too polite to say it, I will: > >People who post HTML messages to NGs should be beaten >senseless, then thrown in the cell next to the one for those >who post binary files to NGs. The latter, of course, must >endure the slow torment of years until they are changed >and broken. You are far too lenient. -- Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | (David Gorski)|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" ###### From: Flame of the West Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 00:36:07 -0400 Lines: 22 Message-ID: <39334536.8E028140@erols.com> References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: WQZbaEV99WqgjgskHLVLmZlHgTxfj18d8Up34bjc4wY= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 30 May 2000 05:10:26 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-koe1.dfn.de!RRZ.Uni-Koeln.DE!news.netcologne.de!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20351 "Juho P. Pahajoki" wrote: > *Looking back on what I've written* Sorry for the lenghty rant, I guess > that seeing two unreadable messages in a row caused a temporary state > of insanity. This is not a personal attack against anyone, please > don't be hurt. OK, since Juho is too polite to say it, I will: People who post HTML messages to NGs should be beaten senseless, then thrown in the cell next to the one for those who post binary files to NGs. The latter, of course, must endure the slow torment of years until they are changed and broken. -- -- FotW Reality is for those who cannot cope with Middle-Earth. ###### From: pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho Pahajoki) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Date: 30 May 2000 08:34:49 GMT Organization: University of Jyvaskyla, Finland Lines: 32 Message-ID: References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> <39334536.8E028140@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi NNTP-Posting-User: pahis User-Agent: slrn/0.9.5.7 (UNIX) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed3.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!mordred.cc.jyu.fi!pahis Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20350 Flame of the West wrote >"Juho P. Pahajoki" wrote: > >> *Looking back on what I've written* Sorry for the lenghty rant, I guess >> that seeing two unreadable messages in a row caused a temporary state >> of insanity. This is not a personal attack against anyone, please >> don't be hurt. > >OK, since Juho is too polite to say it, I will: > >People who post HTML messages to NGs should be beaten >senseless, then thrown in the cell next to the one for those >who post binary files to NGs. The latter, of course, must >endure the slow torment of years until they are changed >and broken. See, now that is the problem with you americans. You want to lock everyone up, sooner or later half the population of USA is in prison and the other half guards them. I don't like to think that people post binaries or html because they are mean and evil. With a little knowledge of why it is bad most of them will probably stop. I've met very few people during my (undeniably short) life who would be mean to others just for the fun of it. But I doubt that you were altogether serious in your post ;-) -- "But why, my dear Crito, should we care about the opinion of the many? Good men, and they are the only persons who are worth considering, will think of these things truly as they happened." -- Socrates to Crito, in "Crito" ###### Message-ID: <3933B796.AFC4D67B@po-box.mcgill.ca> From: Carl Blondin X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 17 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:43:48 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.168.182.175 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mcgill.ca X-Trace: carnaval.risq.qc.ca 959690628 198.168.182.175 (Tue, 30 May 2000 08:43:48 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 08:43:48 EDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!sunqbc.risq.qc.ca!carnaval.risq.qc.ca.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20279 "Juho P. Pahajoki" wrote: > > I'm sorry, I know I'm a whiner for posting these messages, but could > you two (Durin, Carl Blondin) fix your news agents? Seeing the kind of > mess that's pictured above is quite annoying - I want to read what > you've got to say, too! Fixing would mean turning off quoted-printable > encoding and/or setting the news agent so that it doesn't post HTML, > only plain text. > > Sorry for any problems I caused, I had my composer to "ask before sending HTML text" but I swtiched it to "send plain text only, unless I ask otherwise", so the problem shouldn't arise again. Carl ###### From: Orac Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Organization: The most powerful computer in the galaxy References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> User-Agent: MT-NewsWatcher/3.0 (PPC) Message-ID: Lines: 48 Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 12:53:08 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 130.219.233.213 X-Complaints-To: abuse@earthlink.net X-Trace: newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net 959691188 130.219.233.213 (Tue, 30 May 2000 05:53:08 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 30 May 2000 05:53:08 PDT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!newsfeed2.earthlink.net!newsfeed.earthlink.net!newsmaster1.prod.itd.earthlink.net!newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20332 In article , pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho P. Pahajoki) wrote: >Durin VII wrote: >>This is a multi-part message in MIME format. >> >>------=_NextPart_000_007C_01BFC6F9.0A188A40 >>Content-Type: text/plain; >> charset="iso-8859-1" >>Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable >[...] >> >> >>[...] > >I'm sorry, I know I'm a whiner for posting these messages, but could >you two (Durin, Carl Blondin) fix your news agents? Seeing the kind of >mess that's pictured above is quite annoying - I want to read what >you've got to say, too! Fixing would mean turning off quoted-printable >encoding and/or setting the news agent so that it doesn't post HTML, >only plain text. Don't be sorry. I agree with you 100%, and I'm sure there are a lot of others who do too. People who post HTML to Usenet annoy the heck out of me. When I see anything posted in HTML, I immediately move on to the next message without reading the HTML message. >The reason I whine of these things is that not everybodys news reader >can HTML or quoted-printable (mine doesn't). For as long as USENET has >existed, people have been posting plain text and being a text only >media, news don't need anything else. You're not whining. You're simply telling it like it is. I'm sure most people who post HTML aren't even aware they're doing it. For instance, Netscape's default setting for posting to Usenet is to have HTML on. You have to go into the Preferences dialog and change the option to post plain text only. [Snip] -- Orac |"A statement of fact cannot be insolent." | (David Gorski)|"If you cannot listen to the answers, why do you | inconvenience me with questions?" ###### From: Craig Shillington Newsgroups: alt.out-of-body Subject: Re: Success (Sorta!) (Please share ideas!) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 18:34:32 +1000 Organization: De Ja Vous Lines: 200 Message-ID: <3934CE98.52082D87@netconnect.com.au> References: <391ad722_1@news3.calweb.com> <391DFC60.2AFAD7DA@satway.com.au> <391E2739.10CF@not-here.net> <3927484F.5BCC5DB9@satway.com.au> <3928C49F.5BC2@not-here.net> <392AE42D.DEC1F8BE@netconnect.com.au> <392B50BB.42C2@not-here.net> <3931C570.399557A8@netconnect.com.au> <393212D9.9353A2C9@netconnect.com.au> <3933E2FD.CB3D6EDE@netconnect.com.au> <39349708.3050@not-here.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: hor-as1-p23.netconnect.net.au (203.87.38.23) Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: fu-berlin.de 959766071 2355177 203.87.38.23 (16 [27978]) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeedZ.netscum.dQ!netscum.int!fu-berlin.de!uni-berlin.de!hor-as1-p23.netconnect.net.AU!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch alt.out-of-body:43509 Hi Janice, > > Trish wrote: > > > > Craig Shillington wrote in message <3933E2FD.CB3D6EDE@netconnect.com.au>... > > > > > > > > >Hi Trish, > > >> > > >> Craig Shillington wrote in message > > <393212D9.9353A2C9@netconnect.com.au>... > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >Hi Trish, > > >> >> > > >> >> (on bottom) > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >> >While OOB, no ... I can only ever discuss with you my perceptions of > > >> >> >my OBE's while in a *physical state*, therefore I will ALWAYS be > > >> >> >interpreting something based on my physical model. While OOB, my > > >> >> >perception of what I sense is *true* to what I am perceiving, the > > >> >> >problem lies when conveying the experience while physical, IMO. In > > >> >> >this way ... yes, I control my perception of what I *believe* I > > >> >> >sensed while OOB; while in a physical state, undermining that which > > >> >> >sourced the perception in the first place. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> > > How would you distinguish them from simply very, very lifelike > > >> >> dreams? > > >> >> >> > > I attempt some dream control, but someone here told me that > > this > > >> >> isn't > > >> >> >> > > necessarily a good test, since we may simply have super powers > > in > > >> >> other > > >> >> >> > > realities. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> And I was dubbed a certified astral traveler by this person (Rich > > >> West), > > >> >> >> BTW. :) > > >> >> > > > >> >> >Again, I think we all possess these *super powers* anyway, we simply > > >> >> >are more able to use them while in these ASC's. > > >> >> > > > >> >> >> > Well, I don't think we have any extra *powers* in other > > realities, > > >> >> >> > we just know how to use the powers we have to a greater ability. > > We > > >> >> >> > are not bound by the everyday rules of physical life. How would I > > >> >> >> > distinguish them from very, very lifelike dreams? From my > > >> >> >> > experiences with dreams, LD's and OBE's. I just know. When you > > >> >> >> > experience something like I did with my soulmate ... it lets you > > >> >> >> > know (personally only) that it simply is not a dream. > > >> >> >> > > >> >> >> Not even a psychic or shared dream? > > >> >> > > > >> >> >If/when you understand how/where we go when we dream, you will > > >> >> >understand how I believe we can experience shared dreams and psychic > > >> >> >dreams. :) > > >> >> > > > >> >> >All the best > > >> >> >Craig > > >> >> > > >> >> Sorry. Didn't want to snip. > > >> >> > > >> >> Craig, I *think* know what you mean. There are times during OBEs that > > I > > >> >> perceive things that have no known physical equivalent. Like certain > > >> colors > > >> >> for instance. It makes perfect sense during the OBE, but when I later > > >> wake > > >> >> up, I can't make the match. All I recall is what I was thinking at > > the > > >> >> time. > > >> > > > >> >YES!!!! That's how I feel Trish, only this not only applies to non > > >> >physical concepts, IMO, but also to those things physical we have no > > >> >knowledge of or even some things that we simply misinterpret all > > >> >together. I'll assume you have read my account of the visit with my > > >> >soulmate. Point of interest, for me, was the room she was adding on > > >> >the house. I perceived this as scaffolding and a pit full of > > >> >rubbish, when it was a room with the sub frame up and you had to > > >> >step down into it and all the tools and equipment they were using > > >> >were scattered on the floor. I have seen rooms with sub frames and I > > >> >have seen tools before but I misinterpreted what I had seen and > > >> >based what I perceived on something else within my memory model that > > >> >suited the perception well. This is why I disregard a lot of the > > >> >'see what's on my monitor posts', for this very reason, there will > > >> >never be a 100% chance that we can observe and report with 100% > > >> >accuracy. This is not an excuse ... this is fact, it's the way the > > >> >human mind fills in the blanks. Now what of things we perceive > > >> >astrally, that we fully understand while we are astral, yet when we > > >> >return to the physical and try to write down our experience and what > > >> >we *saw*? It's humanly impossible to do. How do I explain a colour I > > >> >have never seen before in the physical? A sound never heard before? > > >> >A concept that is simply impossible to convey while physical? I > > >> >can't, so I do the next best think and work with what I have stored > > >> >up in my physical memory base, to find the closest match *FOR ME*. > > >> >That being an important point, because how *I* interpret something, > > >> >will most likely be completely different to how you will interpret > > >> >it and so we move further and further away from any sort of > > >> >verifiable proof at this stage. It's a catch 22 really, even when we > > >> >are looking for proof for ourselves, we may inadvertently dismiss > > >> >some hits because we have misinterpreted them in such a way as to > > >> >cloud the true perception of the experience. Not saying that all > > >> >near hits would be hits, just saying that we need to have more of an > > >> >understanding as to how we perceive while OOB and how we interpret > > >> >our perceptions when in a physical state. Not just those having the > > >> >experiences, but also those who would want to test us looking for > > >> >some sort of proof. I'll never figure a person who believes that > > >> >it's simply a matter of putting a card out of sight somewhere and > > >> >getting OOB and looking at the card and confirming that afterwards. > > >> >We simply don't see with our physical eyes ... and we don't see what > > >> >is physical IMO, so how would this sort of test prove anything? It > > >> >can't. And it never will, IMO. > > >> > > >> I do understand what you mean then. Actually ... this is probably one of > > >> the reasons I sometimes feel very compelled to wake myself up from an OBE > > >> and quickly record what I've just seen. There is still some small > > lingering > > >> hope that I can accurately record it. Most of the experience can be > > >> recalled, but sometimes there are holes and gaps with strong emotional or > > >> mental undertones that I have no tool to express. > > > > > >I sometimes wonder ... if what we think we have perceived to be > > >correct, actually isn't accurate. I guess there is no way to know > > >this for sure. I also need to stress a point, that while I am OOB, > > >all these things I don't understand or have no knowledge of while > > >physical, make perfect sense while in the state of being OOB. While > > >I am having the experience, it all makes perfect sense to me, it's > > >when I come back here .. it seems as if something is missing, there > > >are pieces of the jigsaw that don't quite fit right anymore. > > > > > >> I can also see your point about interpreting what we have no knowledge > > of, > > >> and filling in the blanks. Is there a way we could train our minds *not* > > to > > >> fill in the blanks? I'm not sure if we can. > > > > > >If you mean, train our minds to leave the data as it is represented > > >while having the experience ... I would guess if we could learn to > > >meditate more deeply, we may be able to get to a state where we > > >start to remember the experiences more clearly, yet still; we need > > >to be able to interpret our experiences into something > > >understandable while in the physical state as well. Maybe there is a > > >way we can train ourselves, not so much to fill in the blanks, but > > >to overlap the data when necessary, rather than interpret the > > >original data and then disregard what we initially experienced. :) > > > > Well Craig, it just seems so difficult. For instance, I've been looking out > > this week for these "fill in the blank" type of things in real life. I've > > caught my mind filling in the blanks several times, and then correcting > > itself .......... I'll walk into my dining room and "see" a black bag on > > the table, and then within a split second it will "change" into the brown > > box that it really is. My mind for whatever reason is expecting to see one > > thing, and has to correct itself because of a false expectation. > > > > I think this happens more frequently than we pick up on ... simply because > > we are so used to making these type of quick adjustments. If this happens > > so much in real life without us noticing, how can we work with it during > > OBEs? > > Ah, yes - definitely a mismatch between model and reality, and such > things are common indeed. Ever see something lying in the street that > looks like a dead animal, but then when you get close it turns out to be > just a rag or something? Or misread a sign, then read it again and > laugh at what you had originally thought it said? Same perceptual > deal. Luckily, in waking reality there is an underlying stability that > enables us to correct our misperceptions. Once we hit on the correct > interpretation, things stop morphing. In dreams, there is no such > underlying stability, and things can go on morphing endlessly. The only > way I can think of offhand to work with it is to use the inherent > instability of dreams to create what you want. So, what are your thoughts on such tests as monitor tests, or placing objects in closed boxes etc.? Assuming that you could believe our consciousness could have a way to perceive these things or their non physical counterparts, would you expect a test like this to be proof that people can get *OOB*? If our perception of the object is blurred and we wrongly report what we have seen, this IMO doesn't prove that we didn't see the actual object (or it's non physical representation). In the same way, there is more than a good chance that what some may report seeing could also be obscurely looked upon as being a misrepresentation too. In understanding this, I think a lot more people would stop inducing these sorts of tests upon us and start looking more towards hits within the data gathered between experimenters who either both meet OOB, or one OOB meets the other who is physical and describes locations etc. All the best Craig -- The sure way to make a thing impossible- -is to think it so. --- Franklin -- ###### From: pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho P. Pahajoki) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> <3933B796.AFC4D67B@po-box.mcgill.ca> Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) Lines: 19 Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 09:35:27 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.165.8.4 X-Trace: read2.inet.fi 959765727 195.165.8.4 (Wed, 31 May 2000 12:35:27 EET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 12:35:27 EET DST Organization: Sonera corp Internet services Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!nyc-news-feed1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!colt.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!newsfeed1.funet.fi!newsfeeds.funet.fi!nntp.inet.fi!central.inet.fi!inet.fi!read2.inet.fi.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20441 Carl Blondin wrote: >Sorry for any problems I caused, I had my composer to "ask before >sending HTML text" but I swtiched it to "send plain text only, unless I >ask otherwise", so the problem shouldn't arise again. Thank you, very much indeed. I appreciate it. I've read the newsgroup concentrated on news in Finnish sfnet hierarchy and by the replies to requests of posting plain text there, I expected that someone would've started bitching. Just goes to show what an intelligent bunch the Tolkien fans in general are (exception being the elven males, of course). *Gloating to Flame of the West* See, now, we didn't have to put him in jail. -- If the button is pushed, there's no running away! -- Barry McGuire, Eve of Destruction ###### From: kemosabe@skyenet.net (Masked Man) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 00:15:30 GMT Organization: MindSpring Enterprises Lines: 15 Message-ID: <394654d2.23801536@news.mindspring.com> References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> <39334536.8E028140@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: d1.8a.08.91 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 31 May 2000 00:15:54 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!bignews.mediaways.net!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!nycmny1-snh1.gtei.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20412 On 30 May 2000 08:34:49 GMT, pahis@voimax.cygnnet.jkl.fi (Juho Pahajoki) wrote: |See, now that is the problem with you americans. You want to lock everyone |up, sooner or later half the population of USA is in prison and the other |half guards them. Masked Man----->Aint that the truth! -- Who was that masked man? ###### From: "Durin VII" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <022ec386$64601b00$LocalHost@dbencini>

<392DC291.B72157A@po-box.mcgill.ca> <3933B796.AFC4D67B@po-box.mcgill.ca> Subject: Re: I can't read HTML! (was: Re: Frodo and Ulysses) Lines: 24 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 10:38:41 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.139.30.25 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 959785507 209.139.30.25 (Wed, 31 May 2000 15:05:07 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 31 May 2000 15:05:07 GMT Organization: Verio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:20428 Carl Blondin wrote in message news:3933B796.AFC4D67B@po-box.mcgill.ca... > > > "Juho P. Pahajoki" wrote: > > > > I'm sorry, I know I'm a whiner for posting these messages, but could > > you two (Durin, Carl Blondin) fix your news agents? Seeing the kind of > > mess that's pictured above is quite annoying - I want to read what > > you've got to say, too! Fixing would mean turning off quoted-printable > > encoding and/or setting the news agent so that it doesn't post HTML, > > only plain text. > > > > > Sorry for any problems I caused, I had my composer to "ask before > sending HTML text" but I swtiched it to "send plain text only, unless I > ask otherwise", so the problem shouldn't arise again. > > Carl I had the same problem, may Eru and the Valar forgive me.