From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Gamling Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 22:05:19 -0400 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 19 Message-ID: NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.b0.19 X-Server-Date: 6 May 2000 02:04:28 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18582 This old man in the Helm's Deep section of /The Two Towers/ doesn't really have a name. I suspect "Gamling" is a nickname translated from the Rohirric, because in the Scandinavian languages "gamel" or "gamla" means "old". So the name of that old man is "Oldster". Tolkien did a *lot* of this in /Hobbit/ -- The Hill, The Water, the Great River, Lake-town, and so on -- but in /LotR/ his names are generally much "deeper". Anyone know other examples of names in LotR that are really just descriptions with a capital letter, not counting those carried over from /Hobbit/? -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/ Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien more FAQs: http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/faqget.htm ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: Fri, 5 May 2000 23:35:49 -0400 (EDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 39 Message-ID: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhUAt1WVre93hrnyBlsCT0lXV9Ur9FECFH74E19Jtespq+DHFRfybfqcjZZx Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newspump.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!netnews.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18531 Stan Brown wrote: >Anyone know other examples of names >in LotR that are really just descriptions >with a capital letter I think Shelob counts as one. There's also the English names of the Mountains of Moria as translated from "Westron": Cloudyhead, Silvertine and Redhorn. Here's a list of other place names that would probably qualify: Ettenmoors Brown Lands The Wold Hills of Evendim Lake Evendim Blue Mountains North Downs South Downs White Downs Barrow Downs Old Forest Tower Hills Weather Hills Midgewater Marshes Weathertop Wellinghall Dead Marshes Stonewain Valley etc. Actually, when you come right down to it, even the various Sindarin place names are mostly descriptive like this. In many cased, the English names are simply translations. --Dave ###### From: "Dave Lind" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 09:42:46 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.211.230 X-Trace: nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net 957620304 206.141.211.230 (Sat, 06 May 2000 09:38:24 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:38:24 EDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18529 Stan Brown wrote in message news:MPG.137d47eead8f077d98b0c3@news.mindspring.com... > This old man in the Helm's Deep section of /The Two Towers/ doesn't > really have a name. I suspect "Gamling" is a nickname translated > from the Rohirric, because in the Scandinavian languages "gamel" or > "gamla" means "old". So the name of that old man is "Oldster". > > Tolkien did a *lot* of this in /Hobbit/ -- The Hill, The Water, the > Great River, Lake-town, and so on -- but in /LotR/ his names are > generally much "deeper". > > Anyone know other examples of names in LotR that are really just > descriptions with a capital letter, not counting those carried over > from /Hobbit/? > Shelob = She-spider Greyhame = Grey-cloak (if this were translated into Sindarin would Gandalf be called 'Thingol'?) If you include names in the Elvish languages: Ioreth = Old-women Iorwain = Eldest Dave ###### From: "Dave Lind" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 30 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 09:42:46 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.211.230 X-Trace: nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net 957620304 206.141.211.230 (Sat, 06 May 2000 09:38:24 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 May 2000 09:38:24 EDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18529 Stan Brown wrote in message news:MPG.137d47eead8f077d98b0c3@news.mindspring.com... > This old man in the Helm's Deep section of /The Two Towers/ doesn't > really have a name. I suspect "Gamling" is a nickname translated > from the Rohirric, because in the Scandinavian languages "gamel" or > "gamla" means "old". So the name of that old man is "Oldster". > > Tolkien did a *lot* of this in /Hobbit/ -- The Hill, The Water, the > Great River, Lake-town, and so on -- but in /LotR/ his names are > generally much "deeper". > > Anyone know other examples of names in LotR that are really just > descriptions with a capital letter, not counting those carried over > from /Hobbit/? > Shelob = She-spider Greyhame = Grey-cloak (if this were translated into Sindarin would Gandalf be called 'Thingol'?) If you include names in the Elvish languages: Ioreth = Old-women Iorwain = Eldest Dave ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: 07 May 2000 00:02:06 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 15 Message-ID: <6uwvl7e3s1.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 957650526 848 10.0.3.2 (6 May 2000 22:02:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 May 2000 22:02:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18588 "Dave Lind" writes: > Greyhame = Grey-cloak (if this were translated into Sindarin would Gandalf > be called 'Thingol'?) :-) Well we know that Elves can be re-born. And he did marry a Maia :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface - or get one with a CLUE (Command Line User Environment)? ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: Sat, 6 May 2000 16:07:03 -0400 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 39 Message-ID: References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.b0.5c X-Server-Date: 6 May 2000 20:06:29 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!news.datacomm.ch!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.icl.net!netnews.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18669 Said orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) in rec.arts.books.tolkien: >Stan Brown wrote: >>Anyone know other examples of names in LotR that are really >>just descriptions with a capital letter? >North Downs >Tower Hills >Weather Hills I snipped most of your good list of examples, which list made me realize that I posed my query too vaguely. Let me see if I can focus it a bit. "Weather Hills", and even "North Downs", would not fall within my query because they are made specific. I'm thinking of "The Hills", "The River", "The Downs", and such like. If the term contains something to distinguish it from other things of the type, be it a location or a characteristic or a bit of history, that's a different matter. (I wish I could remember the rhetorical term for the distinction I'm trying to make.) Consider "the Wizard's Vale" for Isengard, or "the Gate-stream" for the Sirannon. Those both seem fine for me, because they each have a unique adjective to distinguish them from other vales or streams. It's like the American "White Mountains" and "Green Mountains". But in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. That's the distinction I'm trying to draw. Better? Or am I trying to draw a distinction that really won't stand up under scrutiny? -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/ Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien more FAQs: http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/faqget.htm ###### From: Eruadan Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 09:24:12 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 34 Message-ID: <8f3cnn$svt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 166.62.152.99 X-Article-Creation-Date: Sun May 07 09:24:12 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 4.01; Windows 98) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 166.62.152.99 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDeruadan Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!feeder.qis.net!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18621 In article , brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote: > in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", > "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of > them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. [snip] > Or am I trying to draw a distinction that really won't stand up > under scrutiny? I think you might be, Stan. Consider the California town, Oceanside. And I can think of at least one place elsewhere in the Southwest called "El Rio", though I can't remember the exact location. There is also "El Paso" in Texas. There's also a resort I saw once, traveling thru Phoenix, called "The Boulders". It's located in an area of very large (house size) Boulders. It's near a mountain called "Pinnacle Peak". Does that help? Eruadan -- <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> Do not meddle in the affairs of Dragons, because to them you are small, insignificant, and taste good with ketchup Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Lars Haugseth Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: 07 May 2000 16:42:48 +0200 Lines: 18 Message-ID: References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.139.160.208 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: oslo-nntp.eunet.no 957710322 26777 195.139.160.208 (7 May 2000 14:38:42 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@eunet.no NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 May 2000 14:38:42 GMT User-Agent: Gnus/5.0803 (Gnus v5.8.3) XEmacs/21.1 (Bryce Canyon) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!uninett.no!uio.no!Norway.EU.net!fenris.polygnosis.com!nobody Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18658 * brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote: | | But in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", | "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of | them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. In Norway, and I think in the other Scandidavian countries as well, it's quite common to name places in this fashion. As examples, we have several places called Berg, Fjell (Mountain), Dal (Valley), Haug (Hill). Just outside our capital city of Oslo, there is a place called Strømmen (The Stream). -- Lars Haugseth [Remove hyphen for personal email address] Health warning: This article could be hazardous to the health of close-minded nincompoops. If you suffer from this condition, consult your doctor immediately ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 12:03:16 -0400 (EDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 33 Message-ID: <16616-391593C4-14@storefull-254.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAuAhUAlfUk8KjyrQt9DSriZHXit1IK9RUCFQCtboLhwuWOIELFulRrNWxTnvoRxA== Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.direct.ca!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18604 Stan Brown wrote: >But in the Real World I don't think we >ever name things "the River", "the >Mountains", and such That's because, at least in English the original menings of many proper words have been forgotten, or at least aren't readily apparent because the names come from non-English names. In the case of personal names, many first names in English come either from the Bible, or are derived from names in ancient languages. The meanings of these names may have been readily apparent to the people who spoke them, but since they have long since become anglicized and/or worn down, the names themselves have no meaning in English (although one can easily find books and such which can tell us what the name means). The same thing happens with place names. Even if the place name was originally a descriptive name in Old English, the words themselves have worn down or been changed with the passage of a thousand years or so. And then there are the cases of place names being borrowed from other languages, in some case several times, where the original meaning isn't well known, and the word gets sublty changed when it's sounds are changed by speakers of a different language. Even here in America, while some place name meanings are readily apparent, like the Great Lakes or Rocky Mountains, others are not. There are a lot of place names here that are borrowed from Indian names or are derived from various Indian languages. Once again, these names may have been descriptive in the native languages, but these meanings aren't readily apparent in our everyday use of English. --Dave ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <8f3cnn$svt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 35 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: <0ugR4.18731$uJ1.39433@nntpserver.swip.net> Date: Sun, 7 May 2000 18:05:01 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.104.43 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 957715452 212.151.104.43 (Sun, 07 May 2000 18:04:12 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 May 2000 18:04:12 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18653 Eruadan hath written: > Stan Brown wrote: > >> in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", >> "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of >> them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. >[snip] >> Or am I trying to draw a distinction that really won't stand up >> under scrutiny? > >I think you might be, Stan. > >Consider the California town, Oceanside. And I can think of at least >one place elsewhere >in the Southwest called "El Rio", though I can't remember the exact >location. > >There is also "El Paso" in Texas. There's also a resort I saw once, >traveling thru >Phoenix, called "The Boulders". It's located in an area of very large >(house size) >Boulders. It's near a mountain called "Pinnacle Peak". My home town in Sweden is called Lund, which simply mans "Grove". It is true, though, that the grove referred to was not just any old grove. The name came into being because in heathen times there was a sacred grove in the vicinity. When these parts became Christian they built a cathedral here instead and installed a bishop. It was the normal practice of the Christians to take over old cult places where peple were wont to go to worshiip. Öjevind ###### Sender: sahill@harper.uchicago.edu Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> <8f3cnn$svt$1@nnrp1.deja.com> <0ugR4.18731$uJ1.39433@nntpserver.swip.net> From: Lancelot appearing sideways Message-ID: Lines: 41 X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.5/Emacs 20.3 NNTP-Posting-Host: 128.135.12.7 X-Trace: uchinews 957998191 128.135.12.7 (Wed, 10 May 2000 17:36:31 CDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 10 May 2000 17:36:31 CDT Organization: The University of Chicago Date: 10 May 2000 17:36:29 -0500 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!nntp-out.monmouth.com!newspeer.monmouth.com!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!uchinews!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18947 "Öjevind Lång" writes: > Eruadan hath written: > > Stan Brown wrote: > >> in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", > >> "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of > >> them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. > >[snip] > >> Or am I trying to draw a distinction that really won't stand up > >> under scrutiny? > > > >I think you might be, Stan. > >Consider the California town, Oceanside. And I can think of at least > >one place elsewhere > >in the Southwest called "El Rio", though I can't remember the exact > >location. > >There is also "El Paso" in Texas. There's also a resort I saw once, > >traveling thru > >Phoenix, called "The Boulders". It's located in an area of very large > >(house size) > >Boulders. It's near a mountain called "Pinnacle Peak". > My home town in Sweden is called Lund, which simply mans "Grove". It is > true, though, that the grove referred to was not just any old grove. The > name came into being because in heathen times there was a sacred grove in > the vicinity. When these parts became Christian they built a cathedral here > instead and installed a bishop. It was the normal practice of the Christians > to take over old cult places where peple were wont to go to worshiip. I don't think these aren't what he's looking for. Your town is a town called Grove. I think he's looking for a town called "Town", or a city called "City", or a lake called "Lake", or some such. "Pinnacle Peak" up there seems to come the closest. In Hobbiton there is the hill called "The Hill" etc. Could be wrong, though. / :@-) Scott \ ###### From: carledlund@aol.com (CarlEdlund) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 7 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 11 May 2000 17:18:15 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000511131815.22714.00004868@ng-cg1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news.nextra.ch!news1.sunrise.ch!news.imp.ch!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:18993 Besides the mentioned British river names, I assume Istanbul might count as a place named "the City", as I believe that name is derived from the Greek phrase meaning "to the City" (since Greek-speaking locals called Constantine's city, simply "the City" in everyday converse). Cheers, Carl ###### From: raka@s369625.student.uq.edu.au (Adrian Ratnapala) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Gamling References: Message-ID: User-Agent: slrn/0.9.6.2 (Linux) NNTP-Posting-Host: 203.62.185.216 Date: 12 May 2000 14:23:38 +1000 X-Trace: 12 May 2000 14:23:38 +1000, 203.62.185.216 Lines: 8 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsxfer.interpacket.net!news.interpacket.net!news.ausmail.com!raka Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:19020 In article , Stan Brown wrote: >Tolkien did a *lot* of this in /Hobbit/ -- The Hill, The Water, the >Great River, Lake-town, and so on -- but in /LotR/ his names are >generally much "deeper". But in LotR he added a biggie, The Shire. True this cop-out name has a deeper meaning, but why couldn't he do the same in-the-small. ###### From: "Paul Shenton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <16508-39139315-83@storefull-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 26 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:11:35 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.140.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 958871495 24.64.140.24 (Sat, 20 May 2000 18:11:35 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:11:35 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newshub1.kdd1.nap.home.ne.jp!news.home.ne.jp!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:19480 "Lars Haugseth" wrote in message news:m2ya5mqv4n.fsf@fenris.polygnosis.com... > > * brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) wrote: > | > | But in the Real World I don't think we ever name things "the River", > | "the Mountains", and such -- though of course locally we speak of > | them that way. The (U.S.) Great Lakes would come close, though. > > In Norway, and I think in the other Scandidavian countries as well, > it's quite common to name places in this fashion. As examples, we have > several places called Berg, Fjell (Mountain), Dal (Valley), Haug (Hill). > Just outside our capital city of Oslo, there is a place called > Strømmen (The Stream). > In Québec, we have places called "Trois Rivières" meaning "three rivers" and situated at the confluence of three rivers as we have Sept-Iles "seven islands" I think such descriptive place names are fairly common throughout the world. Paul. ###### From: "Paul Shenton" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 16 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4029.2901 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.50.4029.2901 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 21 May 2000 01:12:56 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.64.140.24 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc2.on.home.com 958871576 24.64.140.24 (Sat, 20 May 2000 18:12:56 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 18:12:56 PDT Organization: @Home Network Canada Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newsfeed.gamma.ru!Gamma.RU!newshub1.kdd1.nap.home.ne.jp!news.home.ne.jp!newshub2.rdc1.sfba.home.com!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc2.on.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:19481 "Dave Lind" wrote in message news:kfVQ4.51$qd2.8271@nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net... > > Shelob = She-spider > Greyhame = Grey-cloak (if this were translated into Sindarin would Gandalf > be called 'Thingol'?) No. Paul. ###### From: "Dave Lind" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: Subject: Re: Gamling Lines: 22 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:22:14 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.211.151 X-Trace: nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net 958879046 206.141.211.151 (Sat, 20 May 2000 23:17:26 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 20 May 2000 23:17:26 EDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:19457 Paul Shenton wrote in message news:sKGV4.56026$nB3.2437933@news1.rdc2.on.home.com... > > "Dave Lind" wrote in message > news:kfVQ4.51$qd2.8271@nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net... > > > > > > Shelob = She-spider > > Greyhame = Grey-cloak (if this were translated into Sindarin would Gandalf > > be called 'Thingol'?) > > No. Why not? Dave