From: Michael Grimm Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Glorfindel? Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:52:31 -0600 Organization: Lucent Technologies, Denver, CO Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38FCD91F.9CE0E5BF@drmail.dr.lucent.com> References: <38FCBF07.6A741CE7@dallow.org> NNTP-Posting-Host: genesis.dr.lucent.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (X11; U; SunOS 5.5.1 sun4u) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!news.new-york.net!uunet!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!nntphub.cb.lucent.com!news Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:17474 Mithrandir wrote: Some snipping-> > Frodo says to Gandalf: > > 'I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim > like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?' > 'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the > mighty of the Firstborn.' > > What struck me as odd is that Gandalf says the Glorfindel is "upon the > other side". What exactly is meant by this? It makes it sound like he is > not of this world; it sounds like the way one would would desricibe > something preternatural (I hate that word..sorry) > > Any ideas? It's interesting to see this perspective. It's like that 3-d rendering of the box (the one where you can see it coming out of the page or, if you look at it another way, you can see it going into the page). I had never look at that passage the way you described it. In the past, I had always read it as: 'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is (upon the other side "of the river"): one of the mighty of the Firstborn.' I know this punctuation isn't in the text, but this is how my "mind" always read it. Now that I've seen your perspective, it seems like your interpertation maybe correct. -- Mike Grimm | Denver, Colorado Lucent Technologies' | mjgrimm@lucent.com Bell Laboratories | (303) 538-2688 ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Glorfindel? Date: 19 Apr 2000 23:29:01 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 39 Message-ID: <6ubt35bx0i.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <38FCBF07.6A741CE7@dallow.org> <38FCD91F.9CE0E5BF@drmail.dr.lucent.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 956179741 741 10.0.3.2 (19 Apr 2000 21:29:01 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 19 Apr 2000 21:29:01 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:17496 Michael Grimm writes: > Mithrandir wrote: > > > Frodo says to Gandalf: > > > > 'I thought that I saw a white figure that shone and did not grow dim > > like the others. Was that Glorfindel then?' > > 'Yes, you saw him for a moment as he is upon the other side: one of the > > mighty of the Firstborn.' > > > > What struck me as odd is that Gandalf says the Glorfindel is "upon the > > other side". What exactly is meant by this? It makes it sound like he is > > not of this world; it sounds like the way one would would desricibe > > something preternatural (I hate that word..sorry) I did not get your original post, so I am answering here. IIRC Tolkiens ME is a "dual layer" world. In "this" side are all physical objects and humans/hobbits. In the "other" side are all the dead and ghosts/spirits. Elves are in both sides at the same time, actually their fadeing is when they go to iexclusively the "other" side. IIRC Gandalf says this somewhere in LoTR. Its too long since my last reading to point you to the right place. > I know this punctuation isn't in the text, but this is how my "mind" > always read it. Now that I've seen your perspective, it seems like your > interpertation maybe correct. At least according to Gandalf. And he is a Maia, so he should know. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, LARPer, Mystic Use a WIMP (Windows Icons Mouse Pulldowns) interface -