From: "bkg" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Lines: 42 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 10:36:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.9.194.107 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news1.rdc1.il.home.com 955103800 24.9.194.107 (Fri, 07 Apr 2000 03:36:40 PDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 03:36:40 PDT Organization: @Home Network Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!howland.erols.net!newshub2.home.com!news.home.com!news1.rdc1.il.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16779 I personally agree with most of that review. Personally, if Jackson gets just one scene right it will be enough for me. No one could ever possibly produce Tolkien correctly for me. The story lives in my head. When I read the books I'm *there*. I see it and experience it. Another favorite movie of mine is Patton with George C Scott. Sure, Scott sounds much better giving "the speech" than Patton did. Sure the tanks are all wrong. Sure the battle map of the Bulge has the units upside down. Do I fret over those things and refuse to watch it? Nope. I won't like it if Arwen is at Helm's deep. For me it will ruin the story of Arwen and Aragorn. Will that keep me from enjoying the movies? Not based on what the Internet Preview shows. I don't need hundreds of millions of dollars and a movie studio backing me to "see" this story. I can just pick up the books. I will pay my $7.50 to see Jackson's version. And the Eye of Sauron at the end of the preview IS just exactly as I'd always imagined it when reading the books. Perfect. Gorthaur Michael Martinez wrote in message news:8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net... > This week's Suite101 Tolkien topic article discusses LordoftheRings.Net's > Internet preview for the upcoming Peter Jackson films. > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/tolkien > > Followups redirected to rec.arts.books.tolkien. > > > -- > \\ // Science Fiction and Fantasy info@xenite.org > \\// Andromeda: http://www.xenite.org/boards/andromeda/ > //\\ Star Wars: http://www.xenite.org/movies/phantom_menace/ > // \\ENITE.org.................................................... ###### From: modemac@modemac.com (Modemac) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Organization: First Online Church of "Bob" Reply-To: modemac@modemac.com Message-ID: <38edc18a.6203613@localhost> Cancel-Lock: sha1:JBgMIwpbLeSjJXFfOU7qpLKkwAE= References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> X-No-Archive: yes X-NFilter: 1.2.0 Lines: 17 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 11:11:28 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 32.101.28.37 X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net X-Trace: bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net 955105888 32.101.28.37 (Fri, 07 Apr 2000 11:11:28 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 11:11:28 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!news-out.worldnet.att.net.MISMATCH!wn3feed!worldnet.att.net!wnmaster1!bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16720 Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) wrote: >This week's Suite101 Tolkien topic article discusses LordoftheRings.Net's >Internet preview for the upcoming Peter Jackson films. >http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/tolkien I like it. As we are all painfully aware, fandom tends to cast its icons as unassailable and inaccessibly perfect -- make one single change, and the fans start screaming. Anyone remember the flames a couple of years ago when a toy designer came to this very newsgroup, looking for suggestions on the design for LotR "action figures?" The idea of Galadriel being shown in a pose as if she was "casting a spell" brought howls of protest. The movie will inevitably draw the wrath of the fans. But if it's a *good* movie, then I for one will support it. -- First Online Church of "Bob" http://www.modemac.com/ ###### From: Just Bart Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:29:53 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8clcuu$b0b$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.115.109.30 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 07 19:29:53 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.115.109.30 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDbartchilders Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!newscore.gigabell.net!newsfeed.icl.net!triton.skycache.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16798 First off - the 'cutting Bombabil guts the story' theme is dead dead dead. 2nd - Where did you see Isildur triumphantly holding up the ring? I saw a shot of Boromir contemplating the ring on a chain (Frodo didn't actually let Boromir handle the ring directly did he?). I'm not convinced that brief shot of a Dwarve-like character (being attended to by makeup artists) was Gimli (but probably is) - I couldn't recognize JRD in there. I am certain that one shot is Gandalf. I'm hoping the Baroque tower is Barad-Dur and not Isengard. I'm willing to bet that the armor visible behind PJ is Uruk-Hai armor. I'm curious - how exactly do you interpret Tolkien's description of Orcs? Well - I always enjoy your Suite 101 articles and input in the Tolkien forums. Yet your constant (thinly veiled) cuts and jibes against differening ideas of Tolkien's world do wear thin. -- Bart Childers - Hobbyist and not ashamed BC Project - www.mp3.com/bcproject Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Just Bart Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:30:09 GMT Organization: Deja.com - Before you buy. Lines: 25 Message-ID: <8clcve$b0g$1@nnrp1.deja.com> References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: 204.115.109.30 X-Article-Creation-Date: Fri Apr 07 19:30:09 2000 GMT X-Http-User-Agent: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 5.0; Windows NT) X-Http-Proxy: 1.1 x40.deja.com:80 (Squid/1.1.22) for client 204.115.109.30 X-MyDeja-Info: XMYDJUIDbartchilders Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!skynet.be!triton.skycache.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!portc.blue.aol.com!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!nntp2.deja.com!nnrp1.deja.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16797 First off - the 'cutting Bombabil guts the story' theme is dead dead dead. 2nd - Where did you see Isildur triumphantly holding up the ring? I saw a shot of Boromir contemplating the ring on a chain (Frodo didn't actually let Boromir handle the ring directly did he?). I'm not convinced that brief shot of a Dwarve-like character (being attended to by makeup artists) was Gimli (but probably is) - I couldn't recognize JRD in there. I am certain that one shot is Gandalf. I'm hoping the Baroque tower is Barad-Dur and not Isengard. I'm willing to bet that the armor visible behind PJ is Uruk-Hai armor. I'm curious - how exactly do you interpret Tolkien's description of Orcs? Well - I always enjoy your Suite 101 articles and input in the Tolkien forums. Yet your constant (thinly veiled) cuts and jibes against differening ideas of Tolkien's world do wear thin. -- Bart Childers - Hobbyist and not ashamed BC Project - www.mp3.com/bcproject Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy. ###### From: Chris Csernica Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 19:44:21 -0700 Organization: Lockheed Martin Corporation Lines: 66 Message-ID: <38EE9D05.119298EE@ihwy.com> References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> Reply-To: csernica@ihwy.com NNTP-Posting-Host: SVL78ZT836.lmms.lmco.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!hermes.visi.com!news-out.visi.com!uunet!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed3.global.lmco.com!svlss.lmms.lmco.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16820 Michael Martinez wrote in message news:8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net... > This week's Suite101 Tolkien topic article discusses LordoftheRings.Net's > Internet preview for the upcoming Peter Jackson films. > > http://www.suite101.com/welcome.cfm/tolkien Some remarks: > What did I see? Glimpses, here and there, of things to come. Sean Bean as Boromir > holding the Ring (earlier I said it was Isildur, but I've been corrected on this point), a > gorgeous Liv Tyler racing through the woods, five Nazgul attacking hobbits (probably > the Weathertop scene), a fantastic (and quite inaccurate but otherwise forgivable) > rendition of the Company of the Ring moving through (I think) Lorien... My hope for the Boromir scene is that it will be part of a fantasy sequence going on inside his head as he is tempted by the Ring. I suppose for visual impact we'll have to see the Ring a lot more in the movie than we did in the book, but it would be a very bad idea to let Boromir handle it himself at any point. Lorien was spectacular. Inaccurate, sure, but cinematically far better than having the company climb up a ladder. > Gimli, unfortunately, looks like an AD&D Dwarf, but I have no real qualms about that... Neither do I. AD&D dwarves were ripped off from Tolkien along with orcs and halflings. There's no reason why Gimli shouldn't look like one of them. > And did I mention that Ian McKellen LOOKS like Gandalf? I mean, he LOOKS like > Gandalf. Or was that Christopher Lee as Saruman? The two are supposed to be > difficult to distinguish from one another in the book. You make the call. Must have been Gandalf. He was wearing grey. > They also showed something I think is Isengard. It looked a bit too Baroque or Gothic > to me (hard to make out). It might have been either Barad-dur or Orthanc. I couldn't tell which. You don't mean baroque here. I don't think you can even *do* baroque in shades of black. Gothic maybe. It looked heavily influenced by Alan Lee. I happen to like it, myself, but lots of folks favor some other artist. > Like "The Wiz" Peter Jackson's "The Lord of the Rings" is going to recast Tolkien's > world in a virtually unrecognizable mold for the purists. _The Wizard of Oz_ with Judy Garland would have been a better comparison. If you've ever read the book, you know that movie resembled it only in outline, and pretty vaguely at that. Baum's Oz was nowhere to be found. The movie is a classic anyway. On balance, Jackson's LOTR promises to be more faithful to its source than _The Wizard of Oz_ ever attempted to be. Personally, I'm not going to mourn Bombadil overmuch. Of the available actors he could only have been adequately portrayed by Robin Williams, and who knows if they could have gotten him? A bad Bombadil would have been far worse than no Bombadil at all. (Actually, I know one couple who resemble Tom and Goldberry to an astonishing degree, and they can even act. But I'm reasonably certain they were never under consideration for the parts.) -- Chris Csernica ###### From: s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au (Stephen Souter) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Look What They've Done To Middle-earth, Ma... Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:34:15 +1000 Organization: University of Sydney Lines: 47 Message-ID: References: <8ckb6h$3m4_004@news.uswest.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: mac67a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au X-Trace: metro.ucc.usyd.edu.au 955272855 21250 129.78.104.195 (9 Apr 2000 09:34:15 GMT) X-Complaints-To: usenet@news.usyd.edu.au NNTP-Posting-Date: 9 Apr 2000 09:34:15 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!intgwpad.nntp.telstra.net!news1.optus.net.au!optus!news.usyd.edu.au!mac67a36.edfac.usyd.edu.au!user Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:16860 In article , "bkg" wrote: > I personally agree with most of that review. Personally, if Jackson gets > just one scene right it will be enough for me. > > No one could ever possibly produce Tolkien correctly for me. The story > lives in my head. When I read the books I'm *there*. I see it and > experience it. > > Another favorite movie of mine is Patton with George C Scott. Sure, Scott > sounds much better giving "the speech" than Patton did. Sure the tanks are > all wrong. Sure the battle map of the Bulge has the units upside down. Do > I fret over those things and refuse to watch it? Nope. > > I won't like it if Arwen is at Helm's deep. For me it will ruin the story > of Arwen and Aragorn. Will that keep me from enjoying the movies? Not > based on what the Internet Preview shows. > > I don't need hundreds of millions of dollars and a movie studio backing me > to "see" this story. I can just pick up the books. I will pay my $7.50 to > see Jackson's version. > > And the Eye of Sauron at the end of the preview IS just exactly as I'd > always imagined it when reading the books. Perfect. This is all very well. But that doesn't mean a film translation cannot (in a sense) "overwhelm" the original. The classic example is surely James Bond. As you probably know, he was originally the hero of a series of books penned by Ian Flemming. But how many people, when asked for their impressions of James Bond nowadays, will describe the books? (In fact how many fans of James Bond will have even read the books?) More likely they will wax lyrical on the virtues of Sean Connery as the "definitive" James Bond. :) In that sense the movies have "ruined" the books. You might still be able to go and out and buy the books, but it's a fair bet that more people will go out and buy or rent the movies instead. -- Stephen Souter s.souter@edfac.usyd.edu.au http://www.edfac.usyd.edu.au/staff/souters/