From: erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 01 Mar 2000 06:07:54 GMT References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01a.news.aol.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15027 This brings into question; what exasctly IS Elrond? If Luthien was Half Elven, Half Maia, and Beren was all Edain, that Makes Dior 1/4Elven, 1/4Maia, and 1/2Edain. Idril was 100%Elven, Tuor was 100%Edain. That makes Earendil a straight 50/50. Dior married Nimloth, who I believe was 100%Elven, and that makes Elwing 5/8Elven, 1/8 Maia, and 1/4Edain. When you put Earendil and Elwing together, Elrond and Elros are 9/16Elven, 1/16Maia, and 3/8Edain. Elrond wedded Celebrain, 100%Elven. This makes Arwen and the Eternal twins 25/32Elven, 1/32Maia, and 3/16Edain. If you put that into percentages; 78.125%Elven 3.125%Maia and 18.75%Edain You all are lucky I didn't try to incorpirate WHICH elven houses they're all from. I don't have THAT much free time. -*Mithrigil* ###### From: mark@pc-intouch.com (Mark Wells) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Organization: PC-InTOUCH Linux Conspiracy Message-ID: <38bce158.191423646@news.pc-intouch.com> References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 X-Original-NNTP-Posting-Host: 198-dyn.dialup.pc-intouch.com Lines: 34 Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:27:40 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 198.172.26.10 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: dfw-read.news.verio.net 951902702 198.172.26.10 (Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:25:02 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:25:02 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news.new-york.net!iad-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!dfw-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!damar.pc-intouch.com!198-dyn.dialup.pc-intouch.com Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15039 On 01 Mar 2000 06:07:54 GMT, erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) wrote: >This brings into question; what exasctly IS Elrond? Elrond's just zis guy, you know? >If Luthien was Half Elven, Half Maia, and Beren was all Edain, that Makes Dior >1/4Elven, 1/4Maia, and 1/2Edain. > >Idril was 100%Elven, Tuor was 100%Edain. That makes Earendil a straight 50/50. > >Dior married Nimloth, who I believe was 100%Elven, and that makes Elwing >5/8Elven, 1/8 Maia, and 1/4Edain. > >When you put Earendil and Elwing together, Elrond and Elros are 9/16Elven, >1/16Maia, and 3/8Edain. > >Elrond wedded Celebrain, 100%Elven. This makes Arwen and the Eternal twins >25/32Elven, 1/32Maia, and 3/16Edain. If you put that into percentages; >78.125%Elven >3.125%Maia >and 18.75%Edain This looks basically correct. >You all are lucky I didn't try to incorpirate WHICH elven houses they're all >from. I don't have THAT much free time. We worked this out a few months ago. Elrond and his children are all about 50% Telerin, and (as you determined above) Elrond is about 30% human. He actually has very little Noldorin ancestry, which is probably why he's known as a great source of wisdom and healing instead of a raving lunatic. ###### From: Stug Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Date: Wed, 01 Mar 2000 16:48:57 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 15 Message-ID: <38BD9049.5F7C25CA@telerama.com> References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!remarQ-easT!remarQ.com!supernews.com!rQ66!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15075 Mithrigil wrote: > > When you put Earendil and Elwing together, Elrond and Elros are 9/16Elven, > 1/16Maia, and 3/8Edain. > In Rivendell dwells Elrond, the 9/16-Elven. Hmmmmm. Stug -- "I don't know half of you half as well as I would like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve". -- BB ###### From: nath_kuijpers@byt.wxs.nl (Morwen) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 20:00:29 GMT Organization: Planet Internet Lines: 21 Message-ID: <38bec82c.5902731@news.wxs.nl> References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> <38bce158.191423646@news.pc-intouch.com> Reply-To: nath_kuijpers@byt.wxs.nl NNTP-Posting-Host: ut0144-1.dial.wxs.nl X-Trace: reader1.wxs.nl 952027146 3819090 195.121.232.144 (2 Mar 2000 19:59:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@wxs.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Mar 2000 19:59:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!194.25.134.126.MISMATCH!newsfeed01.sul.t-online.de!newsfeed00.sul.t-online.de!t-online.de!diablo.theplanet.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news-x.support.nl!195.121.6.78.MISMATCH!news.wxs.nl!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15073 On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:27:40 GMT, mark@pc-intouch.com (Mark Wells) wrote: >On 01 Mar 2000 06:07:54 GMT, erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) wrote: > >>This brings into question; what exasctly IS Elrond? > >Elrond's just zis guy, you know? [snip calculations] > >We worked this out a few months ago. Elrond and his children are all >about 50% Telerin, and (as you determined above) Elrond is about 30% >human. He actually has very little Noldorin ancestry, which is >probably why he's known as a great source of wisdom and healing >instead of a raving lunatic. You mean he's half as wise as Celeborn? ;-) -- Morwen, Guardian of the (broken) CHOKLIT Sword ()xxxxxx)|(>>>>>>>>< >>>>>>>>>>> Reply: remove the obvious bit . . . ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Date: 02 Mar 2000 23:57:40 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 42 Message-ID: <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> <38bce158.191423646@news.pc-intouch.com> <38bec82c.5902731@news.wxs.nl> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 952037860 724 10.0.3.2 (2 Mar 2000 22:57:40 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 2 Mar 2000 22:57:40 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15132 nath_kuijpers@byt.wxs.nl (Morwen) writes: > On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:27:40 GMT, mark@pc-intouch.com (Mark Wells) > wrote: > > >On 01 Mar 2000 06:07:54 GMT, erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) wrote: > > > >>This brings into question; what exasctly IS Elrond? > > > >We worked this out a few months ago. Elrond and his children are all > >about 50% Telerin, and (as you determined above) Elrond is about 30% > >human. He actually has very little Noldorin ancestry, Idril (his fathers mother) 25%=4/16 Noldo Compared with the total 9/16 Elf that makes it 4:5 for Noldo:Teleri Not so "very little " Noldo after all! Gives for him: 31.25% Teleri, 25% Noldo, 37.5 Adan[1] 6.25% Maia [1] Edain is plural, dammit! For Celebrian: 75% Teleri (Celeborn 100%, Galadriel 50%), 12.5% Vanya, 12.5% Noldo So for their children: 53.125% Teleri, ... > >probably why he's known as a great source of wisdom and healing > >instead of a raving lunatic. > You mean he's half as wise as Celeborn? ;-) He definitely is Celeborns son-in-law :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: a toy, speeds work so that you have more time to play ###### From: "David L." Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <951400191.5480.0.nnrp-07.d4e49a11@news.demon.co.uk> <20000301010754.03643.00002783@ng-cs1.aol.com> <38bce158.191423646@news.pc-intouch.com> <38bec82c.5902731@news.wxs.nl> <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Lines: 34 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MIMEOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2615.200 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Mar 2000 18:41:49 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 206.141.211.16 X-Trace: nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net 952040474 206.141.211.16 (Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:41:14 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 02 Mar 2000 18:41:14 EDT Organization: Ameritech.Net www.ameritech.net Complaints: abuse@ameritech.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!ameritech.net!nntp0.detroit.mi.ameritech.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15141 Neil Franklin wrote in message news:6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch... > nath_kuijpers@byt.wxs.nl (Morwen) writes: > > > On Wed, 01 Mar 2000 09:27:40 GMT, mark@pc-intouch.com (Mark Wells) > > wrote: > > > > >On 01 Mar 2000 06:07:54 GMT, erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) wrote: > > > > > >>This brings into question; what exasctly IS Elrond? > > > > > >We worked this out a few months ago. Elrond and his children are all > > >about 50% Telerin, and (as you determined above) Elrond is about 30% > > >human. He actually has very little Noldorin ancestry, > > Idril (his fathers mother) 25%=4/16 Noldo > > Compared with the total 9/16 Elf that makes it 4:5 for Noldo:Teleri > > Not so "very little " Noldo after all! > > Gives for him: 31.25% Teleri, 25% Noldo, 37.5 Adan[1] 6.25% Maia > > [1] Edain is plural, dammit! So is "Teleri". The singular of Teleri is Teler. [Snipped a lot of numbers and another instance of the use of Teleri as a singular] Dave ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Lines: 29 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 03 Mar 2000 01:26:07 GMT References: <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <20000302202607.02728.00003493@nso-fi.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!bignews.mediaways.net!diablo.theplanet.net!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01a.news.aol.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15182 In article <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin writes: >Idril (his fathers mother) 25%=4/16 Noldo IIRC, Turgon married a Sindar so Idril was half Noldor and half Teler Sindar. > >Compared with the total 9/16 Elf that makes it 4:5 for Noldo:Teleri > >Not so "very little " Noldo after all! > >Gives for him: 31.25% Teleri, 25% Noldo, 37.5 Adan[1] 6.25% Maia > >[1] Edain is plural, dammit! > > >For Celebrian: 75% Teleri (Celeborn 100%, Galadriel 50%), 12.5% Vanya, >12.5% Noldo > > >So for their children: 53.125% Teleri, ... If I'm correct, that changes the percentages. Russ ###### From: erk1030@aol.com (Mithrigil) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Lines: 11 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 03 Mar 2000 05:28:20 GMT References: <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <20000303002820.03636.00003152@ng-cs1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!europa.netcrusader.net!152.163.239.129!portc01a.news.aol.com!portc05.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15175 Hey, Neil Franklin; You say. >[1] Edain is plural, dammit! > I know. I should have said OF THE Edain. -*Mithrigil* ###### From: "Aris Katsaris" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Date: Sat, 4 Mar 2000 00:35:49 +0200 Organization: An OTEnet S.A. customer Lines: 18 Message-ID: <89peoj$6m5$1@newssrv.otenet.gr> References: <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000302202607.02728.00003493@nso-fi.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: athe530-a207.otenet.gr X-Trace: newssrv.otenet.gr 952122963 6853 212.205.240.207 (3 Mar 2000 22:36:03 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@otenet.gr NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Mar 2000 22:36:03 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.grnet.gr!news.otenet.gr!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15165 Russ wrote in message news:20000302202607.02728.00003493@nso-fi.aol.com... > In article <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin > writes: > > >Idril (his fathers mother) 25%=4/16 Noldo > > IIRC, Turgon married a Sindar so Idril was half Noldor and half Teler Sindar. Elenwe was of the Vanyar - Idril was therefore part Noldo and part Vanya, with no Teler blood that we know of... Aris Katsaris ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!not-for-mail From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Genaelogy of Elrong and Co. (Was; Re: Q re Sons of Elrond immortality) Date: 04 Mar 2000 23:58:52 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 28 Message-ID: <6u4samjqab.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <20000302202607.02728.00003493@nso-fi.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: chonsp.franklin.ch X-Trace: chonsp.franklin.ch 952210736 854 10.0.3.2 (4 Mar 2000 22:58:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@chonsp.franklin.ch NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Mar 2000 22:58:56 GMT X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.7/Emacs 20.4 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:15208 mcresq@aol.com (Russ) writes: > In article <6u3dq9c74r.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin > writes: > > >Idril (his fathers mother) 25%=4/16 Noldo > > IIRC, Turgon married a Sindar so Idril was half Noldor and half Teler Sindar. No. Turgons wife was Elenwe, who was lost crossing the Helcaraxe, which is why Idril was an single child. So Sindar (none of them in Valinor before end of first age) is definitely out. > >Gives for him: 31.25% Teleri, 25% Noldo, 37.5 Adan[1] 6.25% Maia > > > >So for their children: 53.125% Teleri, ... > > > If I'm correct, that changes the percentages. Not correct, so the percentages stay. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ Nerd, Geek, Hacker, Unix Guru, Sysadmin, Roleplayer, Mystic Computer: a toy, speeds work so that you have more time to play