From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: The Ring in Gladden Message-ID: Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 36 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 16:51:09 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.115 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 949510269 208.170.95.115 (Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:51:09 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 10:51:09 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!pln-w!extra.newsguy.com!lotsanews.com!newsfeed.direct.ca!hub.org!hub.org!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:13772 Re-reading "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" (which is very helpful on the relationship between Gondor and Arnor during Isildur's reign), it occurred to me that for about 2,460 years, the Ruling Ring lay buried in the mud at the edge of the Gladden Fields. I suppose that over the years it was sometimes actually buried deep in solid earth, and at other times sloshed around in the water, as wetlands do dry out and become wet again; indeed, the only way I can imagine that it ended up where Deagol found it was that it had originally been stuck in sediments as the Gladden Fields dried out in the early years of the Third Age, and that not long before the 2460s the area in which the Ring was found had become wet again, and that the sediments covering the Ring were gradually washed away, and the Ring had only come to the surface of the river-bed, "by chance", shortly before Deagol went fishing. Anyway, all that (which may be disputed by competent geologists and wetland ecologists at pleasure) is slightly beside my point, which is that the Ruling Ring, its inherent powers intact, was in the same place for thousands of years. One of the Ring's properties seems to have been a faint "beacon", which could be dimly sensed by evil creatures, and doubtless most strongly by Sauron. I was wondering if one of the reasons, maybe even an unconscious reason, that Sauron established his citadel at Dol Guldur when he re-embodied himself, was because it was the strategic point closest to the Gladden Fields, and that Sauron dimly perceived that he was most likely to regain the Ring by remaining in that area? And then, after the Ring had been removed to ever more distant locations by Gollum, and finally taken out of the Anduin valley area altogether by Bilbo, Sauron finally packs up and leaves Dol Guldur. Coincidence? Could it be that, somehow sensing that the Ring and therefore his raison d'etre for remaining at Guldur were gone, Sauron decided to move to a better fortified location - namely Mordor - where he'd be better prepared in case whoever had gotten the Ring should decide to come after him. From Sauron's point of view, then, all of his armament, fortification, and alliances, could be perceived as "defensive"! He may simply have underestimated the slowness of his enemies to grasp (in more than one sense of the term) what had fallen into their hands. David Salo ###### From: Stug Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Ring in Gladden Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 12:48:20 -0500 Organization: Posted via Supernews, http://www.supernews.com Lines: 53 Message-ID: <38986DE4.F14B5D50@telerama.com> References: X-Complaints-To: newsabuse@supernews.com X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newshunter!cosy.sbg.ac.at!news-feed.inet.tele.dk!bofh.vszbr.cz!remarQ-uK!supernews.com!remarQ.com!rQdQ!corp.supernews.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:13468 David Salo wrote: > Re-reading "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" (which is very helpful > on the relationship between Gondor and Arnor during Isildur's reign), it > occurred to me that for about 2,460 years, the Ruling Ring lay buried in > the mud at the edge of the Gladden Fields. I suppose that over the years > it was sometimes actually buried deep in solid earth, and at other times > sloshed around in the water, as wetlands do dry out and become wet again; > indeed, the only way I can imagine that it ended up where Deagol found it > was that it had originally been stuck in sediments as the Gladden Fields > dried out in the early years of the Third Age, and that not long before the > 2460s the area in which the Ring was found had become wet again, and that > the sediments covering the Ring were gradually washed away, and the Ring > had only come to the surface of the river-bed, "by chance", shortly before > Deagol went fishing. > Anyway, all that (which may be disputed by competent geologists and > wetland ecologists at pleasure) is slightly beside my point, which is that > the Ruling Ring, its inherent powers intact, was in the same place for > thousands of years. One of the Ring's properties seems to have been a > faint "beacon", which could be dimly sensed by evil creatures, and > doubtless most strongly by Sauron. > I was wondering if one of the reasons, maybe even an unconscious reason, > that Sauron established his citadel at Dol Guldur when he re-embodied > himself, was because it was the strategic point closest to the Gladden > Fields, and that Sauron dimly perceived that he was most likely to regain > the Ring by remaining in that area? And then, after the Ring had been > removed to ever more distant locations by Gollum, and finally taken out of > the Anduin valley area altogether by Bilbo, Sauron finally packs up and > leaves Dol Guldur. Coincidence? Could it be that, somehow sensing that > the Ring and therefore his raison d'etre for remaining at Guldur were gone, > Sauron decided to move to a better fortified location - namely Mordor - > where he'd be better prepared in case whoever had gotten the Ring should > decide to come after him. From Sauron's point of view, then, all of his > armament, fortification, and alliances, could be perceived as "defensive"! > He may simply have underestimated the slowness of his enemies to grasp (in > more than one sense of the term) what had fallen into their hands. > > David Salo Makes sense. Gandalf even said that it wouldn't occur to Sauron that someone finding the Ring (and knowing what it was) wouldn't try to use it, so if he realized that the Ring had changed location, he had to prepare himself for the possibility that someone might have found it and might try to use it against him: 'For he is very wise, and weighs all things to a nicety in the scales of his malice. But the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power; and so he judges all hearts. Into his heart the thought will not enter that any will refuse it, that having the Ring we may seek to destroy it.' Stug ###### From: brahms@mindspring.com (Stan Brown) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: The Ring in Gladden Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 14:23:44 -0500 Organization: Oak Road Systems Lines: 31 Message-ID: References: NNTP-Posting-Host: c7.ae.b1.2b X-Server-Date: 2 Feb 2000 19:22:26 GMT X-Newsreader: MicroPlanet Gravity v2.10 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:13752 Said dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) in rec.arts.books.tolkien: > Re-reading "The Disaster of the Gladden Fields" (which is very helpful >on the relationship between Gondor and Arnor during Isildur's reign), it >occurred to me that for about 2,460 years, the Ruling Ring lay buried in >the mud at the edge of the Gladden Fields. [...] > One of the Ring's properties seems to have been a >faint "beacon", which could be dimly sensed by evil creatures, and >doubtless most strongly by Sauron. > I was wondering if one of the reasons, maybe even an unconscious reason, >that Sauron established his citadel at Dol Guldur when he re-embodied >himself, was because it was the strategic point closest to the Gladden >Fields, A clever connection, and I think your deduction is very likely to be true. I think also the Ring grew as its master grew, and he was pretty weak for much of the Third Age, so that its "evil beacon" was pretty faint. Otherwise he (or his servants the wraiths) would have got a fix on it in short order. -- Stan Brown, Oak Road Systems, Cleveland, Ohio, USA http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/ Encyclopedia of Arda: http://www.glyphweb.com/arda/default.htm Tolkien FAQs: http://home.uchicago.edu/~sbjensen/Tolkien/TolkNgFaq.html (Jensen) http://garnet.acns.fsu.edu/~gsl9286/aft/faq/ (Loos) Inklings site list: http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/GregorArlt/inklings_sites.html more FAQs: http://www.mindspring.com/~brahms/faqget.htm ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: The Ring in Gladden Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy Message-ID: <87a082$3io_020@news.uswest.net> References: <38986DE4.F14B5D50@telerama.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 18 Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 19:23:46 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.149.251 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 949519047 207.224.149.251 (Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:17:27 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 13:17:27 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.bme.hu!news.iif.hu!fu-berlin.de!logbridge.uoregon.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net.POSTED!xenite1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:13506 In article <38986DE4.F14B5D50@telerama.com>, Stug wrote: >Makes sense. Gandalf even said that it wouldn't occur to Sauron that someone >finding the Ring (and knowing what it was) wouldn't try to use it, so if he >realized that the Ring had changed location, he had to prepare himself for the >possibility that someone might have found it and might try to use it against >him: [snip] It's not like Sauron had the power to drive Gondor's armies out of Mordor. He was limited in his choices as to where to settle, close to the West. -- \\ // Science Fiction and Fantasy info@xenite.org \\// LOTR Movie News: http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ //\\ 1500+ Xena Links: http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml // \\ENITE.org...............................................