From: "Robert B. Marks" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Was Tolkien a Medievalist (an answer from Tom Shippey) Date: Wed, 5 Jan 2000 16:24:54 -0500 Lines: 27 Organization: Home with a cup of tea X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: p5.triton1.sentex.ca Message-ID: <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net> X-Trace: 5 Jan 2000 16:25:12 -0500, p5.triton1.sentex.ca Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!nnrp1.tor.metronet.ca!flint.sentex.net!p5.triton1.sentex.ca Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12292 Greetings all, and happy new year! I have received an answer about whether J.R.R. Tolkien considered himself a Medievalist. From Tom Shippey (who worked with the man): 'Yes, I'm sure Prof T, if pressed, would have admitted to being a medievalist. He might not have meant what some people mean by the term nowadays (ie someone who studies "medievalism", the creation and reflection of ideas of the Middle Ages in the modern day). He would have meant someone on the right side of the split structurally built in to most UK English departments, medieval vs. modern, language vs. literature, or in the case of Leeds University (Tolkien tried to introduce the terminology to Oxford, but failed), A vs B (us being B). However, if you'd asked him what he was without suggesting a term, he'd have said he was a philologist - he often did. Of course he meant something different from most people by that, but it was a clear enough description to me, at any rate.' Well...there it is. No doubt we'll be debating this one for a while... Robert Marks -- The future has not been written, / The past is set in stone, And I am but a lonely wanderer, / With time my only home. -- From Magus Draconum ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: Was Tolkien a Medievalist (an answer from Tom Shippey) Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy Message-ID: <850jov$ig_008@news.usenetserver.com> References: <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 31 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 18:17:12 EST Date: Wed, 05 Jan 2000 23:23:11 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news4.usenetserver.com.POSTED!xenite1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12326 In article <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net>, "Robert B. Marks" wrote: >Greetings all, and happy new year! > >I have received an answer about whether J.R.R. Tolkien considered himself a >Medievalist. From Tom Shippey (who worked with the man): > >'Yes, I'm sure Prof T, if pressed, would have admitted to being a >medievalist. He might not have meant what some people mean by the term >nowadays (ie someone who studies "medievalism", the creation and reflection >of ideas of the Middle Ages in the modern day). He would have meant someone >on the right side of the split structurally built in to most UK English >departments, medieval vs. modern, language vs. literature, or in the case >of Leeds University (Tolkien tried to introduce the terminology to Oxford, >but failed), A vs B (us being B). However, if you'd asked him what he was >without suggesting a term, he'd have said he was a philologist - he often >did. Of course he meant something different from most people by that, but >it was a clear enough description to me, at any rate.' > >Well...there it is. No doubt we'll be debating this one for a while... I don't see anything to debate. I'll wait until someone rewrites Professor Shippey's words, however, and we'll take the situation from there. Thank you for posting that. -- \\ // Science Fiction and Fantasy info@xenite.org \\// LOTR Movie News: http://www.xenite.org/faqs/lotr_movie/ //\\ 1500+ Xena Links: http://www.xenite.org/xor/home.shtml // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### From: "Robert B. Marks" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net> <850jov$ig_008@news.usenetserver.com> Subject: Re: Was Tolkien a Medievalist (an answer from Tom Shippey) Date: Thu, 6 Jan 2000 20:07:38 -0500 Lines: 57 Organization: Home with a cup of tea X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 NNTP-Posting-Host: p24.triton2.sentex.ca Message-ID: <38753c68.0@flint.sentex.net> X-Trace: 6 Jan 2000 20:07:52 -0500, p24.triton2.sentex.ca Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.direct.ca!news1.tor.metronet.ca!nnrp1.tor.metronet.ca!flint.sentex.net!p24.triton2.sentex.ca Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12352 Michael Martinez wrote in message news:850jov$ig_008@news.usenetserver.com... > In article <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net>, "Robert B. Marks" wrote: > >Greetings all, and happy new year! > > > >I have received an answer about whether J.R.R. Tolkien considered himself a > >Medievalist. From Tom Shippey (who worked with the man): > > > >'Yes, I'm sure Prof T, if pressed, would have admitted to being a > >medievalist. He might not have meant what some people mean by the term > >nowadays (ie someone who studies "medievalism", the creation and reflection > >of ideas of the Middle Ages in the modern day). He would have meant someone > >on the right side of the split structurally built in to most UK English > >departments, medieval vs. modern, language vs. literature, or in the case > >of Leeds University (Tolkien tried to introduce the terminology to Oxford, > >but failed), A vs B (us being B). However, if you'd asked him what he was > >without suggesting a term, he'd have said he was a philologist - he often > >did. Of course he meant something different from most people by that, but > >it was a clear enough description to me, at any rate.' > > > >Well...there it is. No doubt we'll be debating this one for a while... > > I don't see anything to debate. I'll wait until someone rewrites Professor > Shippey's words, however, and we'll take the situation from there. It certainly is an interesting insight into Professor Tolkien. Somehow, though, I'm not surprised that Tolkien doesn't quite fit into any easy-to-work-with "category". It seems to me that most great writers/people in general are that way. I guess my take on the man was that he was one of those incredible people who shaped the world around him. He wrote a fantasy novel and it changed the face of fantasy. He lectured on Beowulf and Old English literature, and he set the critical model on it for the rest of the century. I wonder if he wasn't Bede reborn. [Note for those who don't know: Bede was a 7-8th century monk at Jarrow who among other things created the Anno Domini dating system, an educational model that was used for the rest of the Middle Ages, and set the model for historical writing which we still, in part, adhere to today. And this is just the tip of the iceberg with the man...] Robert Marks, remembering Harlan Ellison declaring in his writing that he is not a Science Fiction author; he is a writer... -- The future has not been written, / The past is set in stone, And I am but a lonely wanderer, / With time my only home. -- From Magus Draconum ###### From: "Edward W. Beattie" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Was Tolkien a Medievalist (an answer from Tom Shippey) Date: Sat, 8 Jan 2000 14:06:52 -0000 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 23 Message-ID: <857glt$14f$1@newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <3873b6b8.0@flint.sentex.net> <850jov$ig_008@news.usenetserver.com> <38753c68.0@flint.sentex.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-87.carafate.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: newsg3.svr.pol.co.uk 947340797 1167 62.136.56.215 (8 Jan 2000 14:13:17 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Jan 2000 14:13:17 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed.icl.net!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12372 Robert B. Marks wrote in message <38753c68.0@flint.sentex.net>... I wonder if he (JRRT) wasn't Bede reborn. > >[Note for those who don't know: Bede was a 7-8th century monk at Jarrow who >among other things created the Anno Domini dating system, an educational >model that was used for the rest of the Middle Ages, and set the model for >historical writing which we still, in part, adhere to today. And this is >just the tip of the iceberg with the man...] > He also recorded the old Anglo-Saxon calendar which which is the basis of the Shire Calendar which is in the Appendices to LOTR. He also wrote down "Caedmon's Hymn" which is the oldest recorded English literature. Definitely one of the over-achievers of the 8th century. regards EWB