Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: forgive this intrusion From: Stev@Precision.Guesswork.Com (Stev Knowles) Organization: Precision Guesswork, Inc. X-Newsreader: WinVN 0.99.10 beta6 [mds] (x86 32bit) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=US-ASCII Lines: 13 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 17:26:42 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.218.15.211 X-Complaints-To: abuse@home.net X-Trace: news.rdc1.ct.home.com 946661202 209.218.15.211 (Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:26:42 PST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 09:26:42 PST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!feeder.via.net!newshub1.home.com!news.home.com!news.rdc1.ct.home.com.POSTED!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12094 i am reading the LOTR again, and i was wondering, as i do every time the ring bearer passes thru moria, is there a story written about Durin's reign over the mountain, and the releasing of Durin's Bane? i have not read any of the additional published works, so i may be just asking the stupidest question, but i thought some of you might take pity on me and guide me to anything that exists . . . . thanx. stev ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: forgive this intrusion Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy Message-ID: <84iuss$3l0_016@news.usenetserver.com> References: X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 14 X-Abuse-Info: Please be sure to forward a copy of ALL headers X-Abuse-Info: Otherwise we will be unable to process your complaint properly X-Complaints-To: admin@usenetserver.com NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 14:01:27 EST Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 19:07:08 GMT Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!news.idt.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cyclone-l3!cyclone-l3.usenetserver.com!news4.usenetserver.com.POSTED!xenite1 Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12100 In article , Stev@Precision.Guesswork.Com (Stev Knowles) wrote: >i am reading the LOTR again, and i was wondering, as i do every time the >ring bearer passes thru moria, is there a story written about Durin's >reign over the mountain, and the releasing of Durin's Bane? No. The same information you find in THE LORD OF THE RINGS is repeated in a couple of places but there are no further details anywhere else. -- \\ // Science Fiction and Fantasy info@xenite.org \\// The 21st century starts January 1, 2001. //\\ Prepare for another year of sales ads. // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (Russ) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: forgive this intrusion Lines: 84 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 31 Dec 1999 19:14:58 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991231141458.10429.00000215@nso-fz.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!europa.netcrusader.net!204.71.34.3!newsfeed.cwix.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12067 In article , Stev@Precision.Guesswork.Com (Stev Knowles) writes: >i am reading the LOTR again, and i was wondering, as i do every time the >ring bearer passes thru moria, is there a story written about Durin's >reign over the mountain, and the releasing of Durin's Bane? > >i have not read any of the additional published works, so i may be just >asking the stupidest question, but i thought some of you might take pity >on me and guide me to anything that exists . . . . > What intrusion? You've asked a great on-topic question. There are others here who will answer you better. However, the general answer is that Tolkien never gave us much details on the ancient dwarf mansions. We do know a few things. Khazad-dum (Moria) was the greatest of the ancient dwarf mansions. It was founded by Durin the First very early in the First Age, probably shortly after the Eldar passed West during the Great Journey from Cuivienen. Upon the destruction of Beleriand at the end of the First Age, refugees from the lesser Dwarf mansions of Nogrod and Belegost swelled the population of Khazad-dum. Thereafter, the dwarves of Khazad-dum started what became a close friendship with Noldorin refugees who founded the realm of Eregion which bordered the west gate of Khazad-dum. In LOTR you see hints of that relationship in the scene before the Door to Moria Anyway, the Noldor-Dwarf friendship proved very profitable for both sides. After the Elves forged the rings of power and Sauron forged the One Ring, Sauron attacked Eregion in the War of the Elves and Sauron. The Dwarves of Khazaddum issued forth and helped in the fight against Sauron by attacking his army from the rear as they pressed Elrond's and Celeborn's armies. Sauron's attack was so overwhelming, however, that the dwarven attack to the rear of Sauron's armies only allowed the Elven forces under Elrond and Celeborn to retreat safely to Imladris. The Elven realm of Eregion was utterly destroyed by Sauron and the Dwarves fell back to Khazad-dum and barred the gates behind them. While quite safe from outside attacks in Moria, the Dwarves nevertheless began to dwindle as a people. While economically they continued to propser due to their mithril mining operations, their population waned. Ultimately, their mining operations went so deep as to free one of Melkor's balrogs that had hidden in the deep recesses of the mountains. It's unclear how the Balrog was able to hide there in the first place since by the end of the First Age, the dwarves had been in Khazad dum for thousands of years. Anyway, depopulated as they were, the dwarves held out a year or two against the balrog, but they ultimately after losing two of their kings, had to quit khazad-dum. Khazad-dum's refugees appeared at first to spread out among the other dwarven communities in the Blue Mountains, the northern Misty Mountains and the Iron Hills. However, Durin's folk soon went to the Lonely Mountain and founded the realm of Erebor. While never reaching the majesty and might of Khazad-dum in its heyday, Erebor proved to be quite lucrative to the remnants of Durin's people. Of course, as you know from the Hobbit, Erebor itself fell to Smaug the dragon, thus once again turning Durin's folk into a refugee people. My timing may be off here, but IIRC, after the fall of Erebor, Thorin's grandfather, went to Moria to check out the situation. He was beheaded by the orcs now living there. This started a blood feud between the dwarves and the orcs, drawing in not only Durin's folk, but other dwarf clans as well. This war was fought throughout the Misty Mountains culminating in a final bloodbath at the eastern gate of Moria (the same gate the Fellowship left Moria through) called the Battle of Azanulbizar. A young Thorin Oakenshield and Dain Ironfoot fought at this battle. Dain actually killed Azog, the head orc. Dain peered into entry of Moria and apparently sensed or even saw the great evil presence of the balrog still there. Dain pronounced that the time was not yet right for their return to khazed-dum and his people apparently took his word for it. The dwarves, particularly Durin's people, dispersed again. We next see an older Thorin Oakenshield in the Hobbit on his mission to reclaim Erebor. After the refounding of Erebor, Balin (one of Thorin & Company) and a group of colonists (its hard to tell how many) travelled back to Khazad-dum. Although they actually appeared to have lived there a while and restarted mining operations, ultimately they were slaughtered by the orcs living there under the leadership of the balrog. We learn of Balin's and the colonists' fate when Gandalf reads the diary in the Chamber of Mazarbul. After the War of the Ring, it is assumed the dwarves eventually recolonized Moria but we don't know for sure. Interestingly, Gimli brought his colony to the Glittering Caves of Rohan and not to Khazad-dum. Russ ###### From: "Conrad Dunkerson" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: forgive this intrusion Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 15:11:20 -0500 Organization: AT&T WorldNet Services Lines: 19 Message-ID: <84j2vl$ri7$1@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net> References: Reply-To: "Conrad Dunkerson" NNTP-Posting-Host: 12.79.23.42 X-Trace: bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net 946671413 28231 12.79.23.42 (31 Dec 1999 20:16:53 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@worldnet.att.net NNTP-Posting-Date: 31 Dec 1999 20:16:53 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!wn4feed!worldnet.att.net!wnslave2!wnmaster1!not-for-mail Xref: chonsp.franklin.ch rec.arts.books.tolkien:12104 Stev Knowles wrote in message news:mH5b4.15613$4l1.49730@news.rdc1.ct.home.com... > i am reading the LOTR again, and i was wondering, as i do every > time the ring bearer passes thru moria, is there a story written > about Durin's reign over the mountain, and the releasing of > Durin's Bane? Russ gave you an excellent summary. The best sources to actually read up on the topic are probably Unfinished Tales and The Peoples of Middle Earth... though even these have fragmentary information at best. The Dwarves didn't really play a significant part in JRRT's world until The Hobbit and particularly Lord of the Rings. They were considerably altered as a result of these two books, and JRRT thus most of what we know about them is in those books and the material JRRT wrote after them (comparatively little).