From: Nicolas Masson Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 19:21:39 +0100 Organization: Ecole Centrale Paris Lines: 10 Message-ID: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: masson.via.ecp.fr Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: smilodon.ecp.fr 941653088 14467 138.195.137.240 (3 Nov 1999 18:18:08 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@smilodon.ecp.fr NNTP-Posting-Date: 3 Nov 1999 18:18:08 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.51 [en] (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!golmote!isdnet!freenix!uvsq.fr!jussieu.fr!smilodon.ecp.fr!not-for-mail Ok, so our dear professor's job and passion was to study languages. What I wonder is how much foreign languages he was actually able to speak ? -- Nicolas Masson Ecole Centrale Paris, promotion 2000 "Alae ! Ered en Echoriath, ered e'mbar nin !" ###### Message-ID: <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 15 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:27:20 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 941653857 24.128.99.214 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:30:57 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 13:30:57 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.cwix.com!chnws03.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Nicolas Masson wrote: > What I wonder is how much foreign languages he was actually able to > speak ? A neat bit from Carpenter: 'Tolkien often put Gothic inscriptions in his books, and learned the language well enough that during the course of a debate held in Latin, while he was representing the part of a barbarian envoy, he broke into fluent Gothic.' -- Cheers, Cian ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Message-ID: References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 11 Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 02:23:54 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.67 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 941682234 208.170.95.67 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:23:54 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 20:23:54 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!uunet!ams.uu.net!grolier!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo In article <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: > 'Tolkien often put Gothic inscriptions in his books, and learned the > language well enough that during the course of a debate held in Latin, > while he was representing the part of a barbarian envoy, he broke into > fluent Gothic.' Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? Daweid S. ###### From: "R. Vink" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 25 Message-ID: <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: node0c5c.a2000.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: tesla.a2000.nl 941709367 27181 62.108.12.92 (4 Nov 1999 09:56:07 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Nov 1999 09:56:07 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsgate.cistron.nl!het.net!pascal.a2000.nl!newsfeed.a2000.nl!not-for-mail David Salo wrote: > In article <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: > > > 'Tolkien often put Gothic inscriptions in his books, and learned the > > language well enough that during the course of a debate held in Latin, > > while he was representing the part of a barbarian envoy, he broke into > > fluent Gothic.' > > Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > Daweid S. Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. Renai V. -- Homepage: http://people.a2000.nl/nordho00/home.html ###### From: Tribimat Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:59:50 +0000 Organization: Oinkram Productions Lines: 35 Message-ID: <38219F66.5CB8@wadham.oxford.ac.uk> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> NNTP-Posting-Host: schopenhauer.wadham.ox.ac.uk Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: news.ox.ac.uk 941724296 9132 163.1.164.67 (4 Nov 1999 14:04:56 GMT) X-Complaints-To: newsmaster@ox.ac.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Nov 1999 14:04:56 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.02 (Win16; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news-fra1.dfn.de!news-fra.pop.de!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!newspeer.clara.net!news.clara.net!baron.netcom.net.uk!netcom.net.uk!server3.netnews.ja.net!news.ox.ac.uk!not-for-mail Nicolas Masson wrote: > > Ok, so our dear professor's job and passion was to study languages. > > What I wonder is how much foreign languages he was actually able to > speak ? Off the top of my head: French German Swedish Dutch Italian Spanish Polish Finnish Old English Middle English (are these two 'foreign'?) Old Norse Gothic Latin Ancient Greek He certainly studied all these languages at some time, though I'm not sure if he was ever fluent in all of them at the same time. I don't think he was ever fluent in Polish or Finnish, at least by his own exacting standards. He could also probably have had a reasonable go at Norwegian and Danish given his knowledge of Swedish and Old Norse. -- Tribimat ###### From: "Öjevind Lång" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38219F66.5CB8@wadham.oxford.ac.uk> Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Lines: 69 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-Mimeole: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 1999 17:29:15 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.151.88.181 X-Complaints-To: news-abuse@swip.net X-Trace: nntpserver.swip.net 941732957 212.151.88.181 (Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:29:17 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:29:17 MET DST Organization: A Customer of Tele2 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!newsfeed.icl.net!news.algonet.se!algonet!newsfeed1.swip.net!swipnet!nntpserver.swip.net!not-for-mail Tribimat hath written: >Nicolas Masson wrote: >> >> Ok, so our dear professor's job and passion was to study languages. >> >> What I wonder is how much foreign languages he was actually able to >> speak ? > >Off the top of my head: > >French >German >Swedish >Dutch >Italian >Spanish >Polish >Finnish > >Old English >Middle English (are these two 'foreign'?) >Old Norse > >Gothic > >Latin >Ancient Greek As a pupil of Joseph Wright in Oxford, he studied Welsh. He was also somewhat familiar with Gaelic (both the Irish and the Scottish varieties, I believe.) >He certainly studied all these languages at some time, though I'm not >sure if he was ever fluent in all of them at the same time. >I don't think he was ever fluent in Polish or Finnish, at least by >his own exacting standards. According to relatives of mine who are fluent in Finnish, the Finnish Tolkien wrote in the illustrated Christmas letters to his children (the ones about Karhu the bear and so on) was quite primitive. >He could also probably have had a reasonable go at Norwegian and Danish >given his knowledge of Swedish and Old Norse. Tolkien was rather angry at Åke Ohlmarks, the Swedish translator of "The Lord of the Rings", after Ohlmarks had written a long letter to him in Swedish; he stated that he was forced to spend most of the night with a Swedish-English dictionary in order to decode the message. Somewhere or other (in one of his Letters?), he wrote that his knowledge of modern Scandinavian languages was rather limited and mostly pertained to their older history. In his "Guide to the Names in *The Lord of the Rings*", intended for future translators, Tolkien is rather justifiably harsh in his criticism of Ohlmarks' translation. Still, on a couple of points he was actually wrong, which shows that his knowledge of modern Swedish really was very limited. Most famously, he complained about Ohlmarks' excellent rendering of Mirkwood as "Mörkmården" in Swedish. He declared that he did not understand why Ohlmarks had cosen to call Mirkwood "the Dark Marten". Actually, there is another "mård" in Swedish which means "forest" and only survives in the names for two huge and wild forests: Kolmården ("Coal(black) Forest) and Ödmården ("Desolate Forest"). In other words, Ohlmarks was criticized by Tolkien for one of his few very good translations of a Middle-earth name. Öjevind -- ###### From: "R. Vink" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Thu, 04 Nov 1999 17:41:43 +0100 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 53 Message-ID: <3821B746.E03795C1@cable.A2000.nl> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38219F66.5CB8@wadham.oxford.ac.uk> NNTP-Posting-Host: node0c5c.a2000.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: weber.a2000.nl 941733752 19277 62.108.12.92 (4 Nov 1999 16:42:32 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 4 Nov 1999 16:42:32 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!pascal.a2000.nl!newsfeed.a2000.nl!not-for-mail Tribimat wrote: > Nicolas Masson wrote: > > > > Ok, so our dear professor's job and passion was to study languages. > > > > What I wonder is how much foreign languages he was actually able to > > speak ? > > Off the top of my head: > > French > German > Swedish > Dutch > Italian > Spanish > Polish > Finnish > > Old English > Middle English (are these two 'foreign'?) > Old Norse > > Gothic > > Latin > Ancient Greek > > He certainly studied all these languages at some time, though I'm not > sure if he was ever fluent in all of them at the same time. > I don't think he was ever fluent in Polish or Finnish, at least by > his own exacting standards. > He could also probably have had a reasonable go at Norwegian and Danish > given his knowledge of Swedish and Old Norse. > -- > Tribimat As for Dutch, Tolkien could read it fairly well, to judge by his translation of some book titles while he visited the Dutch town of Rotterdam in the fifties. But he didn't speak it, and he makes several mistakes when rendering Dutch words and names, both in his translation guide and in a letter on the Dutch translation of LotR. Renée V. -- Homepage: http://people.a2000.nl/nordho00/home.html ###### Message-ID: <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 20 Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:10:29 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 941811253 24.128.99.214 (Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:14:13 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:14:13 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!newsfeed1.uni2.dk!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Prembone wrote: > On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" > wrote: > >David Salo wrote: > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. > > Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! > Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't > guess... Sermo etécië i Hravan-lambëo*. Ai! Nai hanyuvalyë Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) [ar nai inyë hanyuva!] -- Cian *forgive this. ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 10:02:12 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Fri Nov 5 02:05:10 1999 References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 31 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004mnminnp141.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 5 Nov 1999 09:59:36 GMT Message-ID: <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!zur.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" wrote: > > >David Salo wrote: > >> In article <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net>, Cian wrote: >> >> > 'Tolkien often put Gothic inscriptions in his books, and learned the >> > language well enough that during the course of a debate held in Latin, >> > while he was representing the part of a barbarian envoy, he broke into >> > fluent Gothic.' >> >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? >> >> Daweid S. > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't guess... "I **really** wish I'd burnt the Red Book." -- Frodo's Ghost MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://mythtakes.tsx.org Ole and Sven and the Lutefisk of Doom http://olesven.tsx.org ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 10:05:26 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Fri Nov 5 02:05:10 1999 References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38219F66.5CB8@wadham.oxford.ac.uk> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004mnminnp141.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 5 Nov 1999 10:02:59 GMT Message-ID: <3822ab79.457262409@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.maxwell.syr.edu!tank.news.pipex.net!pipex!uunet!zur.uu.net!nyc.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 14:59:50 +0000, Tribimat wrote: >Old English >Middle English (are these two 'foreign'?) I certainly don't speak either of them ;-) and English is my native tongue (the **proper** version, known as American English, that is). "I **really** wish I'd burnt the Red Book." -- Frodo's Ghost MythTakes: Tolkien Parody http://mythtakes.tsx.org Ole and Sven and the Lutefisk of Doom http://olesven.tsx.org ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Message-ID: References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 12 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 01:47:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.131 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 941852859 208.170.95.131 (Fri, 05 Nov 1999 19:47:39 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 1999 19:47:39 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo > >David Salo wrote: > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. Thu ni swa unweis is, thatei ik ni mag razda theina waila frathjan! Hwan managai waurdjand bi Gutam, jah ni kann rodjan razda Gutane! Waila ist thatei thu kant rodjan tho skauniston razda, thauhjabai leitil sijai. DS ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:42:19 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 10 Message-ID: <25756-3823DBDB-136@storefull-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhR92metMfF6Swe5qDEuY7SE+LGfBAIUYYS+YqVMfkdjA/akxL2UUYIgR+A= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Prembone wrote: >Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! I guess so. The only dead language I know is Latin. --Dave ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:43:22 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 9 Message-ID: <25758-3823DC1A-12@storefull-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <3822ab79.457262409@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRaY4uyZyvNEK4qgiepyccV6q2zFQIUDQeFfaLQZXpHtgo1Qlg4hZdtFFg= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Prembone wrote: >the **proper** version, known as >American English, that is LOL! --Dave ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:45:11 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 10 Message-ID: <25756-3823DC87-137@storefull-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: Quoted-Printable X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAtAhRqmeqC9oJAA+jfuTTAZS4bwmLPjwIVAIuFbnaZPBtXcZ7lf/WYgOIHCECJ Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!su-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Cian wrote: >Sermo et=E9ci=EB i Hravan-lamb=EBo*. Ai! Nai >hanyuvaly=EB Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) [ar >nai iny=EB hanyuva!] Oh great. Bring a third language into this thread! :) --Dave ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 04:11:19 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Fri Nov 5 20:15:09 1999 References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-002mnminnp330.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 6 Nov 1999 04:10:26 GMT Message-ID: <3823aa55.522515370@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Fri, 05 Nov 1999 09:10:29 -0500, Cian wrote: >Sermo etécië i Hravan-lambëo*. Ai! Nai hanyuvalyë Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) >[ar nai inyë hanyuva!] >-- > Cian >*forgive this. Is it an Elvish swear word? ;-) All Homage To The Elton!!! The Elton John Worship Page - NEW URL http://eltonworship.virtualave.net ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 12:30:07 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sat Nov 6 04:35:01 1999 References: <3822ab79.457262409@news.earthlink.net> <25758-3823DC1A-12@storefull-251.iap.bryant.webtv.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-005mnminnp247.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 6 Nov 1999 12:25:37 GMT Message-ID: <38241f2e.14808590@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Sat, 6 Nov 1999 02:43:22 -0500 (EST), orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) wrote: >Prembone wrote: > >>the **proper** version, known as >>American English, that is > >LOL! Sometimes an American among Brits just reaches critical mass.... ;-) All Homage To The Elton!!! The Elton John Worship Page - NEW URL http://eltonworship.virtualave.net ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: 06 Nov 1999 19:52:34 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 41 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 Cian writes: > > Prembone wrote: > > > On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" > > wrote: > > >David Salo wrote: > > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > > > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. > > > > Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! > > Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't > > guess... Wouldn't help you. Tolkien specifies Qurnya and Sindarin, not Gothic. > Sermo etécië i Hravan-lambëo*. Ai! Nai hanyuvalyë Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) > [ar nai inyë hanyuva!] > -- > Cian > *forgive this. Only if you lot (Salo/Vink/Cian) deliver us the translations, so we can join in the fun. :-) Pure speculation: you were telling our two Goths, the same thing I told Prembone in english. Yes, I know that Quenya (which I think Cians is) is on topic. But it is definitely not understood by most readers here. This is after all not the aman.rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup (all aman.* are in Quenya, but they are not gated to the middle earths Usenet, due to trouble with laying cables along the straight path). :-) -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: "Jonas Thorell" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Lines: 15 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Message-ID: <9f%U3.1393$vN2.20003@dummy.bahnhof.se> Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 19:23:49 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 195.178.166.154 X-Complaints-To: news@bahnhof.se X-Trace: dummy.bahnhof.se 941916229 195.178.166.154 (Sat, 06 Nov 1999 20:23:49 MET DST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 20:23:49 MET DST Organization: Bahnhof Customer News Posting Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news.algonet.se!algonet!news-peer-europe.sprintlink.net!news.sprintlink.net!newsfeed.bahnhof.se!dummy.bahnhof.se!not-for-mail David Salo wrote: > Thu ni swa unweis is, thatei ik ni mag razda theina waila frathjan! > Hwan managai waurdjand bi Gutam, jah ni kann rodjan razda Gutane! Waila > ist thatei thu kant rodjan tho skauniston razda, thauhjabai leitil sijai. Translation please! /Jonas ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Message-ID: References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <9f%U3.1393$vN2.20003@dummy.bahnhof.se> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 19 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 23:19:00 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.29 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 941930340 208.170.95.29 (Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:19:00 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:19:00 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.cwix.com!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo In article <9f%U3.1393$vN2.20003@dummy.bahnhof.se>, "Jonas Thorell" wrote: > David Salo wrote: > > > Thu ni swa unweis is, thatei ik ni mag razda theina waila frathjan! > > Hwan managai waurdjand bi Gutam, jah ni kann rodjan razda Gutane! Waila > > ist thatei thu kant rodjan tho skauniston razda, thauhjabai leitil sijai. > > Translation please! Well, it's a barbarian tongue. You have to take some liberties with the translation in order to render it palatable to civilized ears. Basically it's saying that Gothic is a cool language to know. Either that, or it's saying truly dreadful, nasty things about other people, or why else would it be written in a foreign language? :) [That's a joke, btw. Hwan dwalai sijaina diwands!] DS ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 23:22:09 -0500 (EST) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 10 Message-ID: <15409-3824FE71-4@storefull-257.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <38241f2e.14808590@news.earthlink.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhQ1cMY0KpuUtg5KAU0fW6J5ENMNWQIUWkwIwbHoU222pAQqJJ1RvYL3g+8= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.stanford.edu!paloalto-snf1.gtei.net!news.gtei.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail Prembone wrote: >Sometimes an American among Brits >just reaches critical mass.... ;-) I guess that's partially our fault for mot being used to foreign languages... :) --Dave ###### From: dsalo@usa.net (David Salo) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Message-ID: References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit X-Newsreader: Yet Another NewsWatcher 2.4.0 Lines: 44 Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 23:58:58 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 208.170.95.29 X-Complaints-To: abuse@tds.net (TDS.NET help Desk 1-888-815-5992) X-Trace: ratbert.tds.net 941932738 208.170.95.29 (Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:58:58 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 17:58:58 CST Organization: TDS.NET Internet Services www.tds.net Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!dca1-hub1.news.digex.net!intermedia!ratbert.tds.net!dsalo In article <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch>, Neil Franklin wrote: > > Sermo etécië i Hravan-lambëo*. Ai! Nai hanyuvalyë Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) > > [ar nai inyë hanyuva!] > Only if you lot (Salo/Vink/Cian) deliver us the translations, so we > can join in the fun. :-) > > Pure speculation: you were telling our two Goths, the same thing I > told Prembone in english. > > Yes, I know that Quenya (which I think Cians is) is on topic. But it > is definitely not understood by most readers here. This is after all > not the aman.rec.arts.books.tolkien newsgroup (all aman.* are in > Quenya, but they are not gated to the middle earths Usenet, due to > trouble with laying cables along the straight path). :-) That seems extremely likely. I'll gloss the preceding, and then you can do the translation :) Sermo, noun: friend (possibly used here as the equivalent of a proper name?) teke, verb: write; etékie (perfect) has written i "the" Hravan, noun: "wild-man", used especially of the men of the East who were not "Edain". Goths might be considered to be in that category. lambe, noun: "language" -o: genitive ending (I guess this is a genitive of manner!) Ai, interjection: ah! oh! Nai "let it be, be it that"; often used with the future tense to indicate a wish or hope for the future hanya-, verb. "understand" -uva-: morpheme indicating future -lye: morpheme indicating second person "you" ar, conjunction: "and" Quenya: short for "Quenya lambe", the language of the Quendi -- but especially restricted to the language of the Amanyar Noldor. Sindarinwa, adjective: "characteristic of the Grey-elves" inye, pronoun "I" Does that help? David Salo ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 07:07:33 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sat Nov 6 23:05:07 1999 References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 33 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-006mnminnp265.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 7 Nov 1999 07:03:05 GMT Message-ID: <382524b0.3494953@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news.algonet.se!algonet!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!netnews.com!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On 06 Nov 1999 19:52:34 +0100, Neil Franklin wrote: >Cian writes: >> >> Prembone wrote: >> >> > On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" >> > wrote: >> > >David Salo wrote: >> > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas >> > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? >> > >> > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. >> > >> > Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! >> > Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't >> > guess... > >Wouldn't help you. Tolkien specifies Qurnya and Sindarin, not Gothic. I didn't mean that knowing Gothic would help me understand Quenya and Sindarin. I was just adding, as an aside, that given my reaction to people suddenly discussing things in an obscure language, one might reasonably (and correctly) infer that I didn't get into the equally-obscure pastime of studying Tolkien's Elvish languages, either. All Homage To The Elton!!! The Elton John Worship Page - NEW URL http://eltonworship.virtualave.net ###### From: "R. Vink" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 11:44:54 +0100 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 40 Message-ID: <38255826.C18D1DB0@cable.A2000.nl> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: node0c5c.a2000.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: weber.a2000.nl 941971550 14023 62.108.12.92 (7 Nov 1999 10:45:50 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Nov 1999 10:45:50 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-x.support.nl!pascal.a2000.nl!newsfeed.a2000.nl!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > Cian writes: > > > > Prembone wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" > > > wrote: > > > >David Salo wrote: > > > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > > > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > > > > > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. > > > > > > Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! > > > Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't > > > guess... > > Wouldn't help you. Tolkien specifies Qurnya and Sindarin, not Gothic. But he did write several poems in Gothic, and some of it was *asterisk* language, if I remember correctly. The're in Shippey's Road to Middle-earth. > Only if you lot (Salo/Vink/Cian) deliver us the translations, so we > can join in the fun. :-) > I was merely telling David my Gothic had become somewhat rusty. It's a long time since I visited the Crimea, where the last native speaker of Gothic died several centuries ago. ;) Renée V. -- Homepage: http://people.a2000.nl/nordho00/home.html ###### From: "R. Vink" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 12:05:24 +0100 Organization: A2000 Kabeltelevisie en Telecommunicatie Lines: 36 Message-ID: <38255CF4.66EF904C@cable.A2000.nl> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <9f%U3.1393$vN2.20003@dummy.bahnhof.se> NNTP-Posting-Host: node0c5c.a2000.nl Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Trace: weber.a2000.nl 941972781 17189 62.108.12.92 (7 Nov 1999 11:06:21 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@a2000.nl NNTP-Posting-Date: 7 Nov 1999 11:06:21 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-x.support.nl!pascal.a2000.nl!newsfeed.a2000.nl!not-for-mail David Salo wrote: > In article <9f%U3.1393$vN2.20003@dummy.bahnhof.se>, "Jonas Thorell" > wrote: > > > David Salo wrote: > > > > > Thu ni swa unweis is, thatei ik ni mag razda theina waila frathjan! > > > Hwan managai waurdjand bi Gutam, jah ni kann rodjan razda Gutane! Waila > > > ist thatei thu kant rodjan tho skauniston razda, thauhjabai leitil sijai. Ik [ek er íslenzka, ok fagr mál...] im frotha! > > Translation please! > > Well, it's a barbarian tongue. You have to take some liberties with > the translation in order to render it palatable to civilized ears. > Basically it's saying that Gothic is a cool language to know. Either that, > or it's saying truly dreadful, nasty things about other people, or why else > would it be written in a foreign language? :) [That's a joke, btw. Hwan > dwalai sijaina diwands!] > > DS It was a curse on anyone whose dictionary fails to render the meaning of *diwan*. How many fools be doing what? Renée -- Homepage: http://people.a2000.nl/nordho00/home.html ###### Message-ID: <38259F88.2A7D43E7@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 43 Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:49:28 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 941989997 24.128.99.214 (Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:53:17 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:53:17 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > Cian writes: > > > > Prembone wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 04 Nov 1999 10:55:04 +0100, "R. Vink" > > > wrote: > > > >David Salo wrote: > > > >> Though one doesn't _often_ get to use Gothic in conversation! Hwas > > > >> her kann waila Gutisko rodjan? > > > > > > > Ne rodjan. Ek unweis wait leitil Gutisko jah kann minniza. > > > > > > Oh, jeez. This **is** a geek board!!!!! > > > Never got into the linguistic side of Tolkien, in case you didn't > > > guess... > > Wouldn't help you. Tolkien specifies Qurnya and Sindarin, not Gothic. > > > Sermo etécië i Hravan-lambëo*. Ai! Nai hanyuvalyë Quenya ar Sindarinwa. :) > > [ar nai inyë hanyuva!] > > -- > > Cian > > *forgive this. > > Only if you lot (Salo/Vink/Cian) deliver us the translations, so we > can join in the fun. :-) > > Pure speculation: you were telling our two Goths, the same thing I > told Prembone in english. I told Prembone that David ('Friend' 'Sermo') has written the tongue of a 'wild man'. ('Hravani' - 'wild men'; but really 'wild' as in 'non Atani'; although I think Prembone knew that David's Gothic wasn't Elvish) I couldn't respond in Gothic so I was having a bit of fun. The 'forgive' was for 'Quenya-ists' on what I felt was a bit of an awkward construction. Not a swear word Pem!:) -- Cheers, Cian ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 00:05:18 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Sun Nov 7 16:05:10 1999 References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38259F88.2A7D43E7@mediaone.net> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 24 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-001mnminnp244.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 8 Nov 1999 00:00:54 GMT Message-ID: <38261340.64575893@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!news.idt.net!feeder.qis.net!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Sun, 07 Nov 1999 10:49:28 -0500, Cian wrote: >although I think Prembone knew that David's Gothic wasn't Elvish Yes, I figured that much. ;-) All I said was that I didn't get into studying the obscure languages, hence, I couldn't make head or tail of what you people were writing. But I gathered from the discussion that it was Gothic, and having read Tolkien, I recognize the Elvish languages, even if I don't read, write, and speak them fluently. ;-) >Not a swear word Pem!:) Das ist aber schade. ;-) (Tr: Too bad.) All Homage To The Elton!!! The Elton John Worship Page - NEW URL http://eltonworship.virtualave.net ###### Message-ID: <3826D686.4D795924@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38259F88.2A7D43E7@mediaone.net> <38261340.64575893@news.earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 12 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 08:56:22 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 942069612 24.128.99.214 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:00:12 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 09:00:12 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Prembone wrote: > Cian wrote: > > snip> Not a swear word Pem!:) > > [snip] Das ist aber schade. ;-) (Tr: Too bad.) Ich verstehe danke, aber mein Deutsch ist noch nicht sehr gut. [one possible Tr. for whoever: I understand thank you, but my German is still not very good] Ok, I better shuttup jetzt! -- Cian ###### Message-ID: <38272815.72AF191A@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 19 Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:44:21 -0500 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net 942090488 24.128.99.214 (Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:48:08 EST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 08 Nov 1999 14:48:08 EST Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!iol.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!newshub.northeast.verio.net!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.60.9!ndnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail David Salo wrote: > [snip] > Sermo, noun: friend (possibly used here as the equivalent of a proper name?) Er, yeah sorry David. I wanted a Q. form for your name, and I just went with 'Friend' instead of 'Beloved one' (the Ty.Ty. article has 'Meldon') but in case anyone misread that it was a name translation ... :) A web site I recently ran across offered both possible meanings for 'David' (not to mention having both 'Tuor' and 'Turin' in the name list as well!) I do realize some of these 'name dictionaries' can vary in dependability however -- not necessarily the aforementioned though -- um, just in case that web master posts here. Cheers. -- Cian ###### From: "Alatar" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Tolkien & foreign languages Date: Mon, 8 Nov 1999 18:33:44 -0000 Organization: Customer of Planet Online Lines: 20 Message-ID: <8077op$fr4$1@news5.svr.pol.co.uk> References: <38207D33.3439B023@cti.ecp.fr> <38207E88.142B31A0@mediaone.net> <382157F8.5335892C@cable.A2000.nl> <3822aaf7.457131722@news.earthlink.net> <3822E555.4D33297D@mediaone.net> <6ug0yjpi4t.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <38259F88.2A7D43E7@mediaone.net> <38261340.64575893@news.earthlink.net> <3826D686.4D795924@mediaone.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: modem-69.crixivan.dialup.pol.co.uk X-Trace: news5.svr.pol.co.uk 942088793 16228 62.136.59.197 (8 Nov 1999 19:19:53 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: 8 Nov 1999 19:19:53 GMT X-Complaints-To: abuse@theplanet.net X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3110.3 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!feed2.news.luth.se!luth.se!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!colt.net!diablo.theplanet.net!news.theplanet.net!newspost.theplanet.net!not-for-mail Cian wrote: >Prembone wrote: >> >> [snip] Das ist aber schade. ;-) (Tr: Too bad.) > >Ich verstehe danke, aber mein Deutsch ist noch nicht sehr gut. >[one possible Tr. for whoever: I understand thank you, but my German >is still not very good] Ok, I better shuttup jetzt! Wow, it's so great to see a language I can partially understand for a change. Puzzling over Quenya, Sindarin and (dare I say it) Norweigen can become quite tireing. -- Alatar poblaw' qamDu'raj