From: mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Lines: 6 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 02 Nov 1999 00:54:20 GMT References: <381e293c.161732664@news.earthlink.net> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!howland.erols.net!peerfeed.news.psi.net!portc01.blue.aol.com!spamz.news.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail Just a thought. Didn't the population of Middle Earth tend to have long hair - males and females alike? If so, it would not always be easy to determine if a person had pointed or unpointed ears just by looking at them. Russ ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy References: <381e293c.161732664@news.earthlink.net> <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 14 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 01:47:37 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.147.222 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 941507314 207.224.147.222 (Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:48:34 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 19:48:34 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!golmote!isdnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!mike In article <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com>, mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) wrote: >Just a thought. Didn't the population of Middle Earth tend to have long hair - >males and females alike? If so, it would not always be easy to determine if a >person had pointed or unpointed ears just by looking at them. This is the first I've heard of it. I like to think Aragorn had long shaggy hair, but Tolkien doesn't really say he did. -- \\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web info@xenite.org \\// FREE! Watch Internet TV shows at Xenite.Org! //\\ [http://www.xenite.org/index.htm] // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Lines: 39 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 02 Nov 1999 04:32:03 GMT References: Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!iol.ie!newsfeed.icl.net!oleane!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article , Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) writes: >In article <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com>, mcresq@aol.com >(McREsq) wrote: >>Just a thought. Didn't the population of Middle Earth tend to have long >hair - >>males and females alike? If so, it would not always be easy to determine if >a >>person had pointed or unpointed ears just by looking at them. > >This is the first I've heard of it. I like to think Aragorn had long shaggy >hair, but Tolkien doesn't really say he did. I always envisioned the men as having long hair. I did a *quick* flip though som etexts and noticed the following references to long hair: - the Witch King: "his hair was long and gleaming" - Glorfindel: "his golden hair flowed shimmering in the wind of his speed" (Yes, not explicit, but "flowing" hair tends to be long) Gandalf: "his long white hair" Boromir: "his locks were shorn about his shoulders" Celeborn: "the hair of the Lord Celeborn was of silver long and bright" Rohirrim: "their hair, flaxen pale, flowed under their light helms, and streamed in long braids beneath them" Theoden: "his white hair was long and thick" Ulmo: "A tall crown he wore like silver, from which his long hair fell down as foam glimmering in the dusk." Russ ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy References: <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 19 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 06:56:39 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 209.181.118.109 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 941525853 209.181.118.109 (Tue, 02 Nov 1999 00:57:33 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 02 Nov 1999 00:57:33 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!mike In article <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com>, mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) wrote: >>This is the first I've heard of it. I like to think Aragorn had long shaggy >>hair, but Tolkien doesn't really say he did. > >I always envisioned the men as having long hair. I did a *quick* flip though >som etexts and noticed the following references to long hair: I'm familiar with those, but you were asking if ALL the inhabitants of Middle-earth had long hair. I can point to many who aren't described so, but I cannot say how long their hair really was. For instance, do you envision Frodo with long hair? -- \\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web info@xenite.org \\// FREE! Watch Internet TV shows at Xenite.Org! //\\ [http://www.xenite.org/index.htm] // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### Message-ID: <381FD72B.B269F764@hotmail.com> From: Creole X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) References: <381e293c.161732664@news.earthlink.net> <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 20 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 08:33:15 +0200 NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.115.22.19 X-Complaints-To: abuse@verio.net X-Trace: iad-read.news.verio.net 941610765 192.115.22.19 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:32:45 GMT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 06:32:45 GMT Organization: Verio Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!nuq-peer.news.verio.net!news.verio.net!iad-read.news.verio.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Michael Martinez wrote: > > Didn't the population of Middle Earth tend to have long hair - > >males and females alike? If so, it would not always be easy to determine if a > >person had pointed or unpointed ears just by looking at them. > > This is the first I've heard of it. I like to think Aragorn had long shaggy > hair, but Tolkien doesn't really say he did. From "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony": As Frodo drew near he threw back his hood, showing a shaggy head of dark hair flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes. Sounds like he said it right out to *me*. :) Creole ###### Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien From: Michael@xenite.org (Michael Martinez) Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Organization: Xenite.Org: Science Fiction and Fantasy Message-ID: <7vovk7$1i8_006@news.uswest.net> References: <381e293c.161732664@news.earthlink.net> <19991101195420.15721.00000324@ngol02.aol.com> <381FD72B.B269F764@hotmail.com> X-Newsreader: News Xpress 2.01 Lines: 22 Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 09:35:03 GMT NNTP-Posting-Host: 207.224.149.209 X-Trace: news.uswest.net 941621754 207.224.149.209 (Wed, 03 Nov 1999 03:35:54 CST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 03 Nov 1999 03:35:54 CST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!golmote!isdnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!news-out.uswest.net!news.uswest.net!xenite In article <381FD72B.B269F764@hotmail.com>, Creole wrote: >Michael Martinez wrote: >> This is the first I've heard of it. I like to think Aragorn had long shaggy >> hair, but Tolkien doesn't really say he did. > >From "At the Sign of the Prancing Pony": > >As Frodo drew near he threw back his hood, showing a shaggy head of dark hair >flecked with grey, and in a pale stern face a pair of keen grey eyes. > >Sounds like he said it right out to *me*. :) But he didn't say LONG. I did. -- \\ // Worlds of Imagination on the Web info@xenite.org \\// FREE! Watch Internet TV shows at Xenite.Org! //\\ [http://www.xenite.org/index.htm] // \\ENITE.org............................................... ###### From: Ermanna Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Date: Sat, 06 Nov 1999 09:00:43 -0500 Lines: 15 Message-ID: <38243488.89E31BC8@erols.com> References: <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com> Reply-To: jsolinas@erols.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; x-mac-type="54455854"; x-mac-creator="4D4F5353" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Trace: +C0n5jPhi0QBpL0zf7+4taMiiLjfRdV/hv0v0C4JuzA= X-Complaints-To: abuse@rcn.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1999 15:44:22 GMT X-Accept-Language: en X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 (Macintosh; I; PPC) Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!naxos.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!news-FFM2.ecrc.net!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!not-for-mail Michael Martinez wrote: > For instance, do you envision Frodo with long hair? Actually, I think it's stated that hobbits have short hair. Ermanna the Elven Jedi Knight Ewoks are Hobbits! ###### From: "Rob Coverdale" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Date: Sat, 6 Nov 1999 17:04:56 -0000 Organization: Eidosnet Lines: 24 Message-ID: <801n76$rve$1@quince.news.easynet.net> References: <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com> <38243488.89E31BC8@erols.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: tnt-3-203.easynet.co.uk X-Trace: quince.news.easynet.net 941908006 28654 195.40.202.203 (6 Nov 1999 17:06:46 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@eidosnet.co.uk NNTP-Posting-Date: 6 Nov 1999 17:06:46 GMT X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.tli.de!newsfeed.icl.net!easynet-tele!easynet.net!quince.news.easynet.net!not-for-mail Ermanna wrote in message news:38243488.89E31BC8@erols.com... > > Michael Martinez wrote: > > > For instance, do you envision Frodo with long hair? > > Actually, I think it's stated that hobbits have short hair. There's no way that male Hobbits would have long hair, it just wouldn't fit with their image. Long hair on men typically has a "wayward rebel" image. Regarding pointed ears, Tolkien's Elves (particularly of the 1st Age) strike me as being a fairly macho bunch - wouldn't sharply pointed "pixie" type ears look feminine and therefore a little silly on the males? I think so, although I realise that this isn't a definite reason why they wouldn't have had them. -- Robert Steven Coverdale ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Of Elves and ears (Was: Of Bombadil and crew cuts) Date: 07 Nov 1999 22:22:18 +0100 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 33 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uhfiym1yt.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <19991101233203.12284.00000687@ngol05.aol.com> <38243488.89E31BC8@erols.com> <801n76$rve$1@quince.news.easynet.net> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 "Rob Coverdale" writes: > > Ermanna wrote in message > > > > Actually, I think it's stated that hobbits have short hair. > > There's no way that male Hobbits would have long hair, it just > wouldn't fit with their image. Long hair on men typically has a > "wayward rebel" image. Long hair only has an "wayward rebel" image in societies where short hair is the norm. Unless you could prove that for the Shire I dounbt that one will stick. > Regarding pointed ears, Tolkien's Elves (particularly of the 1st Age) > strike me as being a fairly macho bunch - wouldn't sharply pointed > "pixie" type ears look feminine and therefore a little silly on the > males? I think so, Same objection. When everyone has pointy ears (there are no humans yet and the dwarves are still sleeping) pointy is the norm. So it is not feminine. > although I realise that this isn't a definite > reason why they wouldn't have had them. Damn cultural norms problems, they can really ruin a post :-). -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/