From: buhrger@ecn.ab.ca () Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: 27 Oct 99 04:18:42 GMT Organization: Edmonton Community Network Lines: 14 Message-ID: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: freenet.edmonton.ab.ca X-Trace: news.sas.ab.ca 940997966 25781 198.161.206.2 (27 Oct 1999 04:19:26 GMT) X-Complaints-To: news@sas.ab.ca NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Oct 1999 04:19:26 GMT X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2.6] Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!cyclone.bc.net!rover.ucs.ualberta.ca!sas.ab.ca!ecn.ab.ca!buhrger so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the book? it's rather tightly plotted, after all - the seemingly separate story lines intersect at a number of points. is there anything that can be removed completely? -- ------------------------------------------------------------------------ Andrew Buhr buhrger@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca Savour the Irony! buhra@infinity.gmcc.ab.ca http://freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~buhrger ###### From: "Gary E. Masters" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 07:48:04 -0500 Organization: Texas A&M University, College Station, Texas Lines: 36 Message-ID: <3816F484.14783ACC@tamiu.edu> References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> NNTP-Posting-Host: a2e10b.tamiu.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit NNTP-Posting-Date: 27 Oct 1999 12:52:18 GMT X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!nntp2.giganews.com!nntp.giganews.com!solomon.io.com!news.tamu.edu!not-for-mail buhrger@ecn.ab.ca wrote: > so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to > fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same > for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours > long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the > book? it's rather tightly plotted, after all - the seemingly separate > story lines intersect at a number of points. is there anything that can be > removed completely? > > -- > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Andrew Buhr buhrger@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca > Savour the Irony! buhra@infinity.gmcc.ab.ca > http://freenet.edmonton.ab.ca/~buhrger There are several points where people are caught up to date in conversation: Merry and Pippin telling of the Ents and Legolas telling of the Paths of the dead, so it could be done that way. The ride to Gondor, for an example. And in other places you just cut to a later scene without showing all of the problems Frodo and Sam had getting down the mountain. They do it all the time in films. I won't like it, but it is better to cut past action than to pretend it never happened. That would be a different story. What bothers me is the thought of Arwen as a warrior. Eowyn is different, that is her nature. But Arwen must be 600 years old. I think this will not happen. Regards, Gary Masters ###### From: mcresq@aol.com (McREsq) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Lines: 15 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Oct 1999 12:18:52 GMT References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com X-Newsreader: Session Scheduler Message-ID: <19991027081852.06572.00000818@ngol06.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!news-out.cwix.com!newsfeed.cwix.com!europa.netcrusader.net!205.231.82.12!newsrouter.icnc.com!portc04.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail In article <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca>, buhrger@ecn.ab.ca () writes: >so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to >fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same >for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours >long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the >book? it's rather tightly plotted, after all - the seemingly separate >story lines intersect at a number of points. is there anything that can be >removed completely? Some say the Caradhras scene, but I cannot see PJ giving up the opportunity for the awesome visuals that scene would provide. Russ ###### From: jiminut@aol.com (Jiminut) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Lines: 28 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 27 Oct 1999 14:32:19 GMT References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991027103219.19742.00001535@ng-fb1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!newsfeed.cwix.com!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey04.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to >fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same >for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours >long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the >book? it's rather tightly plotted, after all - the seemingly separate >story lines intersect at a number of points. is there anything that can be >removed completely? Just off the top of my head... no. On the other hand, parts might be shortened: For instance, (if you must) the parts in book III where Merry and Pippin are being taken by the orcs, and the parts where they are in Fangorn (the Entmoot). This leaves room for the chase by Aragorn, Gimli, and Legolas. Then when they finally meet again outside of Saruman's domain, at the guardhouse, the hobbits can relate all of the information in sort of a dream-sequence / flashback. That's the only one I can come up with right now. The parts which center on Frodo, Sam and Gollum, going into Mordor, are all descriptive but IMO brief and can and should be left in as much as possible. Mike D. "Yes, I know I missed a verse. Don't Worry." - J. Hendrix "Like a Rolling Stone" 1967 Monterrey Pop Festival ###### Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!usenet From: Neil Franklin Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: 27 Oct 1999 23:05:04 +0200 Organization: My own Private Self Lines: 20 Sender: neil@chonsp.franklin.ch Message-ID: <6uyacoh5vj.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> X-Newsreader: Gnus v5.3/Emacs 19.34 buhrger@ecn.ab.ca () writes: > > so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to > fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same > for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours > long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the AFAIK (one of the PJ interviews?), FotR is going to recieve more cuts (and so be less than 2 hours) so that the others can get away with less cuts. The entire splitting of the friendship chapter is to be in the first 2 hour film, despite being in the second book. Also the entire Frodo&Sam clambering around in Emyn Muil is to be shortened. -- Neil Franklin, neil@franklin.ch.remove http://neil.franklin.ch/ ###### From: Larry Richards Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:35:51 -0400 Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 32 Message-ID: <3817D2A7.E1279E64@virginia.edu> References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> <6uyacoh5vj.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-31-26.itc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!logbridge.uoregon.edu!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU!not-for-mail Neil Franklin wrote: > > AFAIK (one of the PJ interviews?), FotR is going to recieve more cuts > (and so be less than 2 hours) so that the others can get away with > less cuts. > ? I don't think so. The first movie is going to end with the breaking of the fellowship and the death of Boromir. Just where FotR ends. By cutting Bombadil (which I agree with) you save nothing for the other movies. What you get is more possibilities for other parts of FotR to make it in, such as the assault on the Red Horn Gate. (Which with the cool mountain visuals possible in NZ, PJ would be a fool not to put into the movie.) > The entire splitting of the friendship chapter is to be in the first 2 > hour film, despite being in the second book. > ? Do you mean the breaking of the fellowship? If so, see above. > Also the entire Frodo&Sam clambering around in Emyn Muil is to be > shortened. > Just shortened? Personally, I would cut just about everything except the climb down the cliff (and even there I would skip the bit about the storm and the Nazgul.) I would leave the climb down merely as a way of setting up the taming of Smeagol. -- LGR A confirmed winged balrog, Frodo speaking, Eowyn killing, pointy eared, partisan! ###### From: Larry Richards Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 10:54:32 -0400 Organization: University of Virginia Lines: 22 Message-ID: <381863A8.FA706770@virginia.edu> References: <3817D2A7.E1279E64@virginia.edu> <19991028080321.13429.00001934@ng-fn1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: ppp-31-18.itc.virginia.edu Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD compaq (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!newspeer.te.net!news.indigo.ie!diablo.theplanet.net!colt.net!newsfeeds.belnet.be!news.belnet.be!newsfeed2.news.nl.uu.net!sun4nl!uunet!ams.uu.net!ffx.uu.net!hearst.acc.Virginia.EDU!murdoch.acc.Virginia.EDU!not-for-mail Jiminut wrote: > > >> The entire splitting of the friendship chapter is to be in the first 2 > >> hour film, despite being in the second book. > >> > >? Do you mean the breaking of the fellowship? If so, see above. > > > > I'm at work now so can't check. Regarding the part where Aragorn finds Boromir > almost dead, isn't that in book III (Two Towers)? The Fellowship Has Already > Split, but that might be part of the first film. > Yes, its at the start of book III. But I saw somewhere (the PJ interview?) that that little snippet would be moved into the first movie. Dramatic climax? Anyway, its not a very long scene and could probably be tucked into either the first or second film. -- LGR A confirmed winged balrog, Frodo speaking, Eowyn killing, pointy eared, partisan! ###### From: jiminut@aol.com (Jiminut) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Lines: 17 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder06.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 28 Oct 1999 12:03:21 GMT References: <3817D2A7.E1279E64@virginia.edu> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19991028080321.13429.00001934@ng-fn1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newscore.univie.ac.at!howland.erols.net!portc02.blue.aol.com!audrey05.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >> The entire splitting of the friendship chapter is to be in the first 2 >> hour film, despite being in the second book. >> >? Do you mean the breaking of the fellowship? If so, see above. > I'm at work now so can't check. Regarding the part where Aragorn finds Boromir almost dead, isn't that in book III (Two Towers)? The Fellowship Has Already Split, but that might be part of the first film. Mike D "Yes, I know I missed a verse. Don't Worry." - J. Hendrix "Like a Rolling Stone" 1967 Monterrey Pop Festival ###### From: "Andrew Wells" Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Lines: 20 X-Newsreader: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3155.0 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V4.72.3155.0 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:33:16 +0100 NNTP-Posting-Host: 212.56.110.203 X-Complaints-To: abuse@plus.net.uk X-Trace: stones 941132899 212.56.110.203 (Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:48:19 BST) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 28 Oct 1999 18:48:19 BST Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!landlord!stones.POSTED!not-for-mail buhrger@ecn.ab.ca wrote in message <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca>... >so if PJ is going to do a clean lift of the bombadil episode in order to >fit FotR into a two hour movie, and has suggested that he'll do the same >for the other movies (and he'll have to, if they're to be around two hours >long), what i'm wondering is what else can be excised so neatly from the >book? it's rather tightly plotted, after all - the seemingly separate >story lines intersect at a number of points. is there anything that can be >removed completely? It won't make much of a saving, but how about Beregond, Bergil and the scenes with those two in? Andrew -- Andrew Wells Change 10 to 9 to reach me Don't spam me, spam abuse@force9.net ###### From: prembone@excitebitespam.com (Prembone) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: non-bombadil clean lifts Date: Mon, 01 Nov 1999 13:20:43 GMT X-ELN-Insert-Date: Mon Nov 1 05:25:02 1999 References: <38167d22.0@ecn.ab.ca> <6uyacoh5vj.fsf@chonsp.franklin.ch> <3817D2A7.E1279E64@virginia.edu> X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Organization: The Rescue Frodo SWAT Team X-Posted-Path-Was: not-for-mail Lines: 25 NNTP-Posting-Host: sdn-ar-004mnminnp335.dialsprint.net X-ELN-Date: 1 Nov 1999 13:16:09 GMT Message-ID: <381d9351.123347878@news.earthlink.net> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed1.earthlink.net!nntp.earthlink.net!posted-from-earthlink!not-for-mail On Thu, 28 Oct 1999 00:35:51 -0400, Larry Richards wrote: >> Also the entire Frodo&Sam clambering around in Emyn Muil is to be >> shortened. >> >Just shortened? Personally, I would cut just about everything except >the climb down the cliff (and even there I would skip the bit about the >storm and the Nazgul.) I would leave the climb down merely as a way of >setting up the taming of Smeagol. Oh, but not the dialogue. That's one of my favorite sections in the whole book -- it gives us a wonderful glimpse of the rapport between Frodo and Sam, particularly as they evolve toward a friendship of equals instead of the "Lor' bless you, sir" groveling from Book One. ;-) At least keep the dialogue, even if the action has to be shortened. "Here is a test to find out whether your mission in life is complete. If you're alive, it isn't." -- Richard Bach The Secular Paganist http://www.stormloader.com/secularpagan The Prembone Pages http://prembone.tsx.org