Message-ID: <38061561.2A9F6BA1@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Sindarin/Welsh was(Re: Tolkien is a thief) References: <7u0o4t$kh4$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <19991012230855.16802.00000327@ng-bh1.aol.com> <7u4nsq$h4a@dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Lines: 24 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:39:45 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 939922965 24.128.99.214 (Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:42:45 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:42:45 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!isdnet!netnews.com!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Michael Urban wrote: > In article , > Mark Wells wrote: > >The most developed of the Elvish languages was Quenya, which Tolkien didn't > >base on Welsh at all. Sindarin sounds a little like Welsh, but that's > about >it. > Sindarin is more Welshlike than just "sounding a little like Welsh"; it > has features such as lenition and vowel-shifted plurals that closely > resemble Welsh. Yahoo! Lenition and nasal mutation mentioned all in one month on RABT! Of course, the rules/patterns for mutation (common to 'Celtic' tongues) correspond each to it's own language. An example of aspirate mutation in Welsh: 'potel' (bottle) becomes 'photel'. Incidently, in Sindarin, the change 'p' to 'ph' occurs in nasal, stop, and the probable liquid mutations. ['p' to 'b' in lenition, unless derived from mb]. Mar aurė, Cian ###### Message-ID: <380618FB.1A9B4051@mediaone.net> From: Cian X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-MOENE (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Sindarin/Welsh was(Re: Tolkien is a thief) References: <7u0o4t$kh4$1@ash.prod.itd.earthlink.net> <19991012230855.16802.00000327@ng-bh1.aol.com> <7u4nsq$h4a@dfw-ixnews16.ix.netcom.com> <38061561.2A9F6BA1@mediaone.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Lines: 30 Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:55:07 -0400 NNTP-Posting-Host: 24.128.99.214 X-Complaints-To: abuse@mediaone.net X-Trace: wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net 939923887 24.128.99.214 (Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:58:07 EDT) NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 13:58:07 EDT Organization: Road Runner Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!newsfeed-zh.ip-plus.net!news.ip-plus.net!News.Amsterdam.UnisourceCS!skynet.be!news-spur1.maxwell.syr.edu!news.maxwell.syr.edu!feed1.news.rcn.net!rcn!chnws02.mediaone.net!24.128.1.101!chnws05.ne.mediaone.net!24.128.44.7!wbnws01.ne.mediaone.net.POSTED!not-for-mail Cian wrote: > Michael Urban wrote: > > > In article , > > Mark Wells wrote: > > >The most developed of the Elvish languages was Quenya, which Tolkien didn't > > >base on Welsh at all. Sindarin sounds a little like Welsh, but that's > > about >it. > > Sindarin is more Welshlike than just "sounding a little like Welsh"; it > > has features such as lenition and vowel-shifted plurals that closely > > resemble Welsh. > > Yahoo! Lenition and nasal mutation mentioned all in one month on RABT! > > Of course, the rules/patterns for mutation (common to 'Celtic' tongues) correspond > each to it's own language. An example of aspirate mutation in Welsh: 'potel' > (bottle) becomes 'photel'. > > Incidently, in Sindarin, the change 'p' to 'ph' occurs in nasal, stop, and the > probable liquid mutations. ['p' to 'b' in lenition, unless derived from mb]. Oop, that last addition should end after 'in lenition'. Scratch the 'unless derived from mb' part, which refers to another example that I scratched in my draft. Boring is still beter than confusing :) Apologies. Damn. Cian