From: sonshi57@mindspring.com (Douglas Henderson) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Is Lord of the Rings the best Fantasy novel? Date: Thu, 23 Sep 1999 12:05:06 GMT Organization: DarkGrey Consulting Lines: 22 Message-ID: <37ea164d.5866739@news.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.02.0c Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 23 Sep 1999 12:03:14 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!remarQ-easT!supernews.com!remarQ.com!news.mindspring.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail Rereading Lin Carter's early work "Imaginary Worlds" where he disparages LOTR somewhat, made me furiously to think: Is LOTR the best Fantasy novel? If so, why? If not, why? If not, then what is? His comments have determined me to reread TH White's "Once and Future King" which seems to me to be the other main contender (although in this form IIRC it really is three novels not one). My other contender, the Riddle Master of Hed trilogy I have to think about some more, it seems "lighter" somehow than Tolkien. Your thoughts? -- \/\/\/\/ Sindamor Pandaturion ###### From: gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Is Lord of the Rings the best Fantasy novel? Lines: 16 NNTP-Posting-Host: ladder07.news.aol.com X-Admin: news@aol.com Date: 24 Sep 1999 03:10:40 GMT References: <37ea164d.5866739@news.mindspring.com> Organization: AOL http://www.aol.com Message-ID: <19990923231040.23606.00001814@ng-fp1.aol.com> Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!newsfeed.berkeley.edu!newsfeed.enteract.com!news.compuserve.com!news-master.compuserve.com!portc03.blue.aol.com!audrey01.news.aol.com!not-for-mail >Rereading Lin Carter's early work "Imaginary Worlds" where he >disparages LOTR somewhat, made me furiously to think: > > Is LOTR the best Fantasy novel? > I'm sure it would just about any vote on the subject, Of course the people reading this form a very biased sampled. It is my favorite but of course there are others that I like equally as much. The Once and Future King while a great book is not on the same level as LOTR. The Author who I do consider Tolkien's Equal is James Branch Cabell. His various novels are all part of the 20 volume Biography of Manuel, not all of which is fantasy. The best parts are though. Jurgen and "The Cream of the Jest" are up there with LOTR. They are very different so I could not say that LOTR is Better or the Cabell books are better. Of course the Silmarillion is also up there but I'm not sure if its a novel or not. Feanole aka DrWhoFru ###### From: orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Is Lord of the Rings the best Fantasy novel? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:23:44 -0400 (EDT) Organization: WebTV Subscriber Lines: 9 Message-ID: <25526-37EB2700-123@newsd-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> References: <37ea164d.5866739@news.mindspring.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: localhost.webtv.net Mime-Version: 1.0 (WebTV) Content-Type: Text/Plain; Charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7Bit X-WebTV-Signature: 1 ETAsAhRksWYb/ObRonxAu435WtfvfMjUiAIUL0liJBCSA9o0qDD6b5WXZMZA5h0= Content-Disposition: Inline Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!newspeer1.nac.net!newsfeed.concentric.net!webtv.net!not-for-mail I would say that LotR is probably the greatest fantasy ever written, but I'm mot even going to pretend to be objective about it. LotR has been one of my favorite stories ever since I discovered it 11 years ago. Almost all of the other fantasy that I have read (except some of C.S. Lewis' books which I read even earlier then LotR) have come after LotR. I don't even bother to compare LotR to other works, because it is my opinion that much of the current batch of fantasy fiction probably wouldn't even exist today is LotR hadn't been written. ###### From: sonshi57@mindspring.com (Douglas Henderson) Newsgroups: rec.arts.books.tolkien Subject: Re: Is Lord of the Rings the best Fantasy novel? Date: Fri, 24 Sep 1999 08:27:57 GMT Organization: DarkGrey Consulting Lines: 29 Message-ID: <37ec34a6.1502893@news.mindspring.com> References: <37ea164d.5866739@news.mindspring.com> <25526-37EB2700-123@newsd-252.iap.bryant.webtv.net> NNTP-Posting-Host: a5.f7.17.02 Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit X-Server-Date: 24 Sep 1999 08:29:51 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 1.5/32.452 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!news.maxwell.syr.edu!cpk-news-hub1.bbnplanet.com!news.gtei.net!firehose.mindspring.com!not-for-mail On Fri, 24 Sep 1999 03:23:44 -0400 (EDT), orius@webtv.net (David Sulger) wrote: > References: <37ea164d.5866739@news.mindspring.com> <19990923231040.23606.00001814@ng-fp1.aol.com> NNTP-Posting-Host: c9169-003.v-wave.com X-Trace: dagger.videotron.ab.ca 938213646 18027 24.108.21.103 (24 Sep 1999 22:54:06 GMT) X-Complaints-To: abuse@powersurfr.com NNTP-Posting-Date: 24 Sep 1999 22:54:06 GMT X-Newsreader: Forte Free Agent 1.11/32.235 Path: chonsp.franklin.ch!pfaff.ethz.ch!news-zh.switch.ch!news-ge.switch.ch!enews.sgi.com!nntp.primenet.com!nntp.gctr.net!news-peer.gip.net!news.gsl.net!gip.net!newspeer.monmouth.com!news.tac.net!news.videotron.ab.ca!not-for-mail gordonlew@aol.com (Gordon Nash) wrote, in part: quoting sonshi57@mindspring.com: >>Rereading Lin Carter's early work "Imaginary Worlds" where he >>disparages LOTR somewhat, made me furiously to think: >> Is LOTR the best Fantasy novel? >It is my favorite but of course there >are others that I like equally as much. The Once and Future King while a great >book is not on the same level as LOTR. The Author who I do consider Tolkien's >Equal is James Branch Cabell. I'm surprised to hear Lin Carter critical of LotR, as his own work, while eminently entertaining, simply followed in the footsteps of Burroughs, who, although one of the Immortals (like Arthur Conan Doyle, having created a character who will fascinate people forever, or nearly so) still doesn't hold a candle to Tolkien. However, that depends on what kind of criticism we're talking about: while I'd disagree with general criticism that implies LotR isn't "all that it's cracked up to be", specific criticism of particular flaws is something anyone is entitled to do, and LotR does have specific flaws that one can point to. There is nothing wrong with pointing out real flaws; but it would be wrong to deny LotR's real greatness. Is LotR the best novel ever written in the fantasy genre? Gordon Nash's reply shows why that question can't really be answered - at best, one must answer that it is not, as far as one can determine. Because the fantasy genre is too broad, and includes works by such authors as James Branch Cabell or Gabriel Garcia-Marquez or Jorge Luis Borges. Authors who have produced works of undoubted literary greatness, with which comparing LotR is like comparing apples and oranges. If we narrow our focus a bit, however, and focus on works of fantasy with broad popular appeal, or on the heroic fantasy genre, *then* LotR towers head and shoulders above everything else. It is the best book of its kind; any book that comes close to it, even if it is still in the general category of fantasy, will be a very different kind of book. That is greatness enough. John Savard ( teneerf<- ) http://www.ecn.ab.ca/~jsavard/crypto.htm